DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns minicamp notes

File this: A source says that efforts by the Browns to sign tight end Jordan Cameron to a long-term contract have snagged already. The Browns have had two different offers rejected by Cameron, who is in the last year of his contract.

After the first practice of coach Mike Pettine’s voluntary veteran minicamp on Tuesday, Cameron declined to characterize negotiations in any way.

“That’s business stuff,” he said. “I can’t think about that. I’ve got the season to play and my business people handle that. I can’t really say anything about it. I’ve got to play hard and really focus on this right now.”

Cameron would not even address whether he wants to get contract talks out of the way before the season starts.

Center Alex Mack had the same attitude last year. After owner Jimmy Haslam blew up football operations – interrupting contract talks -- the new regime gave Mack the transition tag. The Browns matched an offer sheet for $42 million over five years signed by Jacksonville, which can be voided by Mack after two years for $18 million.

The source says Cameron’s rejection of the two Browns’ offers may have more to do with a desire to return to the West Coast than quibbling over dollars.

In any case, the Browns could use the franchise tag on Cameron in 2015. But they have other core veterans with contracts expiring this season to consider, also, such as cornerback Joe Haden, linebacker Jabaal Sheard, nose tackle Phil Taylor and defensive lineman Ahtyba Rubin.

For his part, Cameron does not intend to rest on the laurels of his first Pro Bowl season.

“Got to do better,” he said. “Lot of stuff to work on. I’m not anywhere near where I can be. I still got a lot to learn and I will. I’ll keep working my butt off, like I always have and still stay hungry. I still have a lot to prove to myself, and I’m willing to work.”

Hoyer’s working: Everyone has said quarterback Brian Hoyer is ahead of schedule in his recovery from ACL surgery about six months ago in October, and Tuesday the proof was there. Hoyer was agile and assertive in doing exercises and 7-on-7 drills while practice was open to media. Hoyer was unfazed by a bulky brace on his right knee and did not appear restricted in any movements.

“I thought he looked good,” Pettine said. “It’s not a surprise because the Phase 2 work (of the offseason program), we’ve been able to do a lot of individual stuff with him, too. As we’ve said, he’s ahead of schedule.”

Pettine said Hoyer has been cleared for individual and 7-on-7 work but won’t be exposed to 11-on-11 activity until the second team minicamp in June, at the earliest.

“I think that’s going to be based on how he progresses,” Pettine said. “I don’t think there will be any limitations once he gets to training camp.”

Hoyer said, “It was awesome. I felt really good, which was no surprise to me. I was begging him to let me take the team. It’s just good to play football again.”

We’ll have more on Hoyer Wednesday morning on ESPNCleveland.com.

Brownie bits: Vince Young and Tyler Thigpen participated on a tryout basis. Pettine said that one will be signed following the three-day minicamp. Young, who turns 31 May 18, was with the Tennessee Titans when Browns quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains held the same job with them. Thigpen, 30, was signed by the Kansas City Chiefs after his release from Minnesota in 2007 when Browns GM Ray Farmer was Chiefs director of pro personnel director … Pettine said that Mitchell Schwartz will remain at right tackle and went a step further. “Mitchell’s a guy, we were happy with what he put on tape last year,” Pettine said. “We’ll potentially address it in the draft but I don’t really see tackle right now as a position of need.”

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=31511

Quote:

---

Pettine said that Mitchell Schwartz will remain at right tackle and went a step further. “Mitchell’s a guy, we were happy with what he put on tape last year,”

---

WAIT... This can't be. It's not possible that a HC in the NFL likes someone that fans of this team on this board routinely beat on as being less than solid..

How can it be?

He hedged that comment.

“We’ll potentially address it in the draft but I don’t really see tackle right now as a position of need.”

Quote:

---

The source says Cameron’s rejection of the two Browns’ offers may have more to do with a desire to return to the West Coast than quibbling over dollars.

---

I could definitely see this being the case. I think his kid is on the West Coast too....but I don't know for sure.

If it's true about the West Coast thing (he does live out here, and went to school out here), then fine.

If he's trying to get a mega-contract... woah there, fella. You did have a pretty good year, but it was ONE good year.

Nobody in the league, including some Browns fans, knew who you were before last season where you got to work with a guy that coached some great TEs.

Here's what coach Mike Pettine is saying about the Browns today

On the Browns’ first minicamp practice: “Enjoyed it. It was a long time coming. Just getting hired in January, I had this date circled. It was a special one, and I thought the guys responded. I thought coaching-wise, we did a real good job with the organization part of it, and the players were great – great effort, flew around; made some mistakes, but very natural for it being the first day. As I like to say, we’ll have a lot of coaching moments on the video tape.”

On Browns QB Brian Hoyer’s status: “He’s been cleared to do individual work and then he’s not been cleared to do team work. Just having issues with bodies flying around him, we didn’t want to expose him that way. He was able to do seven-on-seven work and all the individual stuff.”

On how Hoyer practiced: “I thought he looked good, and it’s not a surprise because in the phase two work, we’ve been able to do a lot of stuff with him too. I thought he’s done a great job with (Browns head athletic trainer) Joe Sheehan and getting on the rehab plan. As we said, he’s ahead of schedule, and I think he proved that today, as well.”

On if Hoyer believes he can be a starting NFL quarterback: “Knowing the kind of competitor he is I don’t want to put those thoughts [out there or] attribute them to him, but I would be surprised if it wasn’t. I think if he was the third or the fourth or the fifth guy, I think he’d still prepare that way. That’s the way he’s made up so certainly now when he’s out there taking reps, I know it killed him, he begged me to be able to jump in there for the team stuff, and I had to play head coach for a minute and tell him, ‘No.’ That’s the way he is. That’s the way he’s made up: ultimate competitor. I think that he firmly believes that it’s his job.”

On when Hoyer will fully participate in practice: “I don’t know. That decision hasn’t been made for anything in the spring. Potentially, we’re looking to the mandatory camp in June as a possibility for him to do 11-on-11, but I think that’s going to be based on how he progresses. I don’t think there will be any limitations once he gets to training camp.”

On bringing in QB Vince Young, specifically in reference to Browns General Manager Ray Farmer’s comments yesterday: “I’m not sure what that refers to. I just know that there had been some talk and relationship with (Browns quarterbacks coach) Dowell Loggains I think was important, that Dowell worked with him at Tennessee (Titans). Vince is somebody that I’ve always had a lot of respect for being on the other sideline at times. Just when he walks in the building, he’s got a presence. You forget how tall he is and then he walks past you in the hallway. He’s a guy that, again, we brought him and (QB) Tyler (Thigpen) in for a tryout. They got some quality reps today, and we’ll see how the rest of the week goes.”

On if there is uneasiness with the quarterback situation: “I don’t think so because that’s information that we had back in January. We knew we were going to be in that situation and then waiting until the draft, I think, makes it even more difficult, that extra time being that much closer to the season and having that position potentially be unsettled. It’s something that we’ve had long discussions about, and it’s where we are. Those are the circumstances. It’s something we’ve had to deal with since day one.”

On having to start a rookie quarterback if the Browns select one at fourth overall: “I’ve never felt that if you draft them high you have to start them right away. I think you can make a mistake there, and I’ve been a part of both. I’ve been a part of (QB) Kyle Boller who was put in there right away [in Baltimore]. I was in Baltimore with (Ravens QB) Joe Flacco, who was third coming out of training camp, and it was only because of injury that he had to play. (Eagles QB) Mark Sanchez played right away [with the New York Jets]. (Bills QB) EJ Manuel last year – the plan was for (QB) Kevin Kolb to start, and it ended up because of injury EJ ended up as the starter. When you look at the history of the league – whether it was (Patriots QB Tom) Brady, whether it was (Packers QB) Aaron Rodgers, (Cardinals QB) Carson Palmer, even (Seahawks QB) Russell Wilson sat for a little bit, (49ers QB Colin) Kaepernick was a package player his first year – I think it’s extremely difficult to come in right out of essentially a rookie camp, some OTAs, a mandatory camp and do a training camp and all of the sudden be ready to be a starter in the NFL. I think that’s a rare guy that can handle that, and he has to have a great supporting cast in order to do it. It’s something you hope to avoid because I think you can set that player back and set your team back while we’re in the ‘win now’ business. As history has shown, I think it’s very difficult to do with a rookie quarterback.”

On potentially drafting a quarterback fourth overall, when other impact players may be available: “That’s been a big part of the discussion in the draft room. That’s a position that we know, just as many others, that we’re going to need to address. You talk about where you’re going to do it and the impact that it’s going to have on the rest of team. Certainly, it’s in an ideal situation that you can get that quarterback later in the draft and that way you’re drafting a position player at No. 4. We’re in the business of staying true to our sequence that if our fourth best player or somebody rated above that is there at the fourth pick, we’ll feel comfortable turning the card in, regardless of what the position is.”

On insights as to why Young hasn’t been as successful in recent years: “I don’t. Dowell is somebody I lean on heavily. I know a lot of guys have made the most of getting repeat chances in this league. We’re hoping that’s something that can happen for Vince. I know he’s a quality person and he’s won some games in this league. I was happy that we were able to give him the opportunity.”

On potentially signing either one of the quarterbacks trying out this week: “Yeah, we’ll make that decision at the end of camp. I would think that we would sign at least one coming out of this camp.”

On Browns OL Mitchell Schwartz playing tackle or guard: “Through this camp, he’ll be a tackle, and then we’ll assess where we are after this camp and then post-draft, if we feel the need. I always like to cross-train guys, always be in the business of having your best five [offensive linemen] out there. If a guard can learn to play center, if a left tackle can learn to play right, I think the more versatile you can be, especially with all your guys, but if you’re only going to dress seven or dress eight of those [offensive line] players that aren’t in there need to be able to play multiple spots. Mitchell’s a guy that we were happy with what he put on tape last year. We’ll potentially address it in the draft, but I don’t really see tackle right now as a position of need.”

On Browns OL Paul McQuistan: “The reason he’s here, I think, is his versatility. I think center is the only spot that he hasn’t played, but he’s an experienced NFL lineman that’s played both guard spots and both tackle spots. I think that’s his strength is his versatility.”

On Browns OL Chris Faulk: “No limitations. He’s at guard to start, but we evaluate that he’s a guy that we were very much looking forward to this camp, kind of getting him out there and testing that knee and seeing what he can do.”

On Browns WR Josh Gordon’s practice, after playing against him last season: “Yeah, we’re very glad that he’s wearing the same jersey. It’s a credit to Josh. He’s been here. He’s worked hard. He’s really gotten after it in the meeting room and on the field, as well. He’s got a lot to learn. It’s a new system, but he’s been very open to coaching, to hard coaching. I think that will show up in the fall in his play.”

On Browns DL Desmond Bryant’s status: “He wasn’t here, but that was a personal thing he was excused for it. This is a voluntary camp anyway, but it had nothing to do with him medically. It was a personal thing.”

On Browns WR Travis Benjamin’s status: “He’s on schedule, but we’re going to hold Travis until the start of training camp. There’s a chance that he could be ready to go for that last camp, but I think we’re going to err on the side of caution there and go ahead and give him the full summer to get back to full strength.”

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...-today-1.484420

We changed schemes last year and it took a while for the line to adjust. Schwartz never played in a zone scheme to my knowledge. We asked these guys to do a lot more and they improved as the year went on. I think Schwartz will be fine although I expect the line to struggle as they adjust to the amound of zone runs we add.

I totally understand Cameron waiting on the extension. He is betting on himself. He has had one good year, if he signs now he will get paid pretty well. If he has another year like 2013 he gets paid like one of the top tight ends in the league.

(We can pick up a 5th year option on Taylor and push back re-signing him for another year.)

Good chance Cameron's agent is pushing for a top TE contract after his season. I'd much rather the team bet on Cameron too. If he matches his 2013 franchise him. If he matches it again sign him long term. He was too invisible before Chuds TE heavy O to pay him well yet.

Cameron is a good TE, but he's nothing special. Just an athlete. Won't be very hard to replace.

If he is not hard to replace why is it that we have not had a TE better then him since Ozzie?

How come all of these athletic tight ends that have come before Cameron have not succeeded?

Evan Moore comes to mind.

Because we took a few years off and K2 got hurt. Cameron is a good player, but he's nothing special. We could draft Colt Lyerla or AC Leanord in the bottom half of the draft and watch either of them be just as good as Cameron. Cameron is good because defenses have yet developed a real way to stop tall, big and fast TE's not because he's such an exceptional talent.

If teams could just draft big, fast, and athletic guys and make them successful tight ends, then why doesn't everyone just do it?

Cameron was big, fast, and athletic in his first two years in the league, why wasn't he good then? He had hardly played football in college; got drafted; sat for two years; figured things out; and then was good.

Graham, Gonzalez, Gates, and Davis aren't actually good at football. They are just big, fast, athletic, and replaceable.

It seems like people always want to get rid out people once they are ready to get paid. The goal is to keep the good players.

I wouldn't call Evan Moore athletic, he was kind of too big in the butt IIRC.

He has talent, but his major skill is that no one can cover TE's in today's NFL (or college for that matter), but that talent isn't hard to find now that you see a lot more college basketball players following the steps of Gates and Gonzalez.

What I'm trying to say is that the talent is out there, just needs to be found.

I hope my last post answered the majority of this post. But I did just want to touch base on the payment part. It's true, I don't want to pay him top TE money, because I'm still not sold on him. I'd rather we allocate that money elsewhere.

So if he has another Pro Bowl season you wouldn't be sold on him?

No, but I'm a major advocate of coaching makes the skill players. Which is also why I thought he never blew up because Shermy never knew how to use him and open up his offense.

So why don't other teams let their 26 year old Pro Bowl skill players hit free agency (unless there are some type of character issues)?

Didn't Pittsburgh, New England and Ravens do this for the majority of the past decade? I think we have a lot of talent on this roster and I'm not sure how we plan on paying them.

What Pro Bowl level talent (with non-character issues) have they let leave?

The only one I can think of is Welker and he had issues with Belichick.

Pittsburgh had Hines Ward forever. They let Holmes and Burress go because they were idiots. They have had Heath Miller forever as well. Emmanuel Sanders left but he was hardly a Pro Bowl type player.

Baltimore never even had any receivers until they had Torrey Smith. They traded Anquan Boldin, but he was past his prime. They released Todd Heap, but he was made of glass. They recently signed Pitta to a pretty big extension.

New England has had Welker forever, but let him go because he had issues with Belichick. They signed both Gronkowski and Hernandez to long term contracts. They traded for Moss and then cut him loose once he started to go crazy. They traded Deion Branch for a first round pick, but he wasn't a Pro Bowler.

I can't think of any Pro Bowl skill position player in Cameron's age range in the league that has been allowed to leave their team without some sort of compensation in recent history.

Hard to tell as Wiki doesn't have much info before 2005 for the Ravens, but Adalius Thomas, Kruger, Bart Scott, Boldin.

Steelers: Randel El, Willie Parker (Really bad wiki)

NE: Ty Law, Daniel Graham, Asante Samuel, Richard Seymour, Deion Branch (twice), Danny Woodhead,

That's just the ones I could find.

Randel El was good. My bad on the Willy Parker.

Ty Law was still in his prime. The following year after he got cut he led the NFL in interceptions. Daniel Graham was a good TE for the Pats when he played. They let Branch walk when he was 24 and then again when he was 31. The Pats were still letting people go who were elite talent to make way for guys who had more.

AT was a two time all pro when he left the Ravens, he was text book elite. Kruger was all potential, but they got rid of him for Courtney Upshaw. Bart Scott and Boldin were both doing great for them.

Look, Cameron is a good tight end, maybe a top 10, but not an elite TE or a top 5 TE.

Randle El was a decent WR and returner, but hardly special. He was a Jack of all trades ..... able to catch, run, pass, and return ...... but he wasn't really special at any of them. He was a better receiving version of Josh Cribbs, though not as god a returner.

What makes you put him into any kind of special category?

Back to Cameron .... he was 2nd among TEs with 917 yards. The only TE with more was Graham with 1215 yards. He was also 6th among all TE with 7 TD catches. That was with sketchy QB play at times.

If you wanted to argue that he doesn't yet have a long term track record, than that would be one thing. However to argue that he wasn't a top 5 TE last year is to ignore what took place on the field.

What makes you think that he is not a top 5 TE?

Vernon Davis, Gronk, Graham, Jason Witten, Julius Thomas and maybe Greg Olsen.

Your argument that we should not re-sign our 26 year old Pro Bowl tight end because those type of guys can be found anywhere is a horrible one. I don't even know why there is any debate. Are you trying to be a contrarian or have you backed yourself into a corner and don't want to admit you are wrong?

Neither, I'm just being rational about this. For example, what is he worth -- player wise that is? Which players do you not resign to keep him? Sheard? Mingo? Rubin? Phil?

As for my comment about finding talent like him, it's really not nearly as difficult as you believe it is. If we look at the player types for the position of TE we can already point at a major shift of culture from all around Jason Witten types to big athletes like Graham. Unless their is a shortage of fast, big guys in the NFL then he won't be hard to replace. Good TE's will soon be like good RB's, a dime a dozen because the NFL doesn't know how to stop them.

KW2 a load of talent coming out of college, but no brains, no heart, and a bad attitude.