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Ok, so it doesn't matter which QB we take at 4...
Just take one. Who cares which right? It's a QB... As long as we take them at 4 they will be good..
Because who cares if we could get the same QB 31 pick later, while also picking up another top 5 player...
As long as we take A QB at 4... That's all that matters..
Got it.
You're acting like a child. You know I didn't say that.
I'm talking about THE guy, not any guy.
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Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Manziel or Carr.
Don't get cute hoping Carr falls if you think he's the guy. Just take him at 4 and forget about it.
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Ok, that's completely fine.
I want Bridgewater at 4. Would be happy with Manziel at 4.
I don't really want Carr at all.
But my point is, if you don't think those guys are THE GUY, and say you like, Garapollo or Murray better...
You're not going to take them at 4...Because you can get them later..
Which has nothing to do with "winning the draft"
Last edited by ThatGuy; 05/02/14 10:54 AM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I don't care, just get a franchise QB on the roster. Period. Don't wait it out, don't try to be cute and get stuck with some scrub, TAKE THE GUY.
Well, we did that with Weeden. Heckert was THE ultimate target picker. When it worked out, like with Ward, Hughes and Schwartz, who were considered massive overdrafts, nobody seems to remember their ramblings.
My point is that ultimatively it comes down to the prospect, regardless of need, value or target as Motivation....it just has to work out
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Except by that logic, we should of taken Weeden at 4.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Except by that logic, we should of taken Weeden at 4.
It's been well documented that Weeden was a panic move after Kendall Wright was taken by Tennessee, leaving us with no back-up plan.
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If you think Gorroppolo is the guy, yes you take him at 4.
Might be considered a massive reach, but if he's the franchise guy, in 3 years, no one will remember where he was "supposed" to go.
You think you can get him later, but what if Arizona likes him and takes him at 20? Then you're leaving this draft without your guy, when you had your shot at him.
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Except by that logic, we should of taken Weeden at 4.
It's been well documented that Weeden was a panic move after Kendall Wright was taken by Tennessee, leaving us with no back-up plan.
Weeden was just a bonehead decision. When there are no franchise QB's left and you have a value pick staring you in the face like we did in that draft it's different than sitting at #4 with 2 maybe 3 potential franchise QB's on the board.
I was very much against drafting Tannehill at our spot, but I would love to have had him instead of Weeden.
Last edited by BpG; 05/02/14 11:20 AM.
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Except by that logic, we should of taken Weeden at 4.
That's why that "logic" is flawed. You have to take into account what the perceived league wide value is for a player and have to find your own positive value. That's how you maximize value for your team. You still have the risk of misevaluation, no matter what your plan is, that's my point. Weeden was plan B and somewhat a panic move, but he was a target they didn't want to risk losing.
Now to something completely different. Anybode else read what Brady Quinn said the other day? Ravens were set to pick him, trading up with the Chiefs, then we traded up in front of them....even Ozzie would have done something stupid, he just got lucky
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Let's not re-write history based on hindsight and personal opinion which turned out to be right. The same was said about Hughes. Everybody thought TRich was the safest pick possible etc etc.
Weeden was considered a fQB by many, not only the Browns FO. He beat out all of the other franchise QBs with a weaker team.
Back to your argument. So, if they don't pick one of the QBs, would you be ok with it if they don't consider any of them a fQB? Is this based on your opinion or do you want them to make picks with conviction? Not sure I get the base of your argument, so please clarify....
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Except by that logic, we should of taken Weeden at 4.
well that would have reduced that draft to only one bad player in the 1st
Weeden instead of TR
ANYBODY instead of Weeden
Hey that's a win... 
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Let's not re-write history based on hindsight and personal opinion which turned out to be right. The same was said about Hughes. Everybody thought TRich was the safest pick possible etc etc.
Weeden was considered a fQB by many, not only the Browns FO. He beat out all of the other franchise QBs with a weaker team.
Back to your argument. So, if they don't pick one of the QBs, would you be ok with it if they don't consider any of them a fQB? Is this based on your opinion or do you want them to make picks with conviction? Not sure I get the base of your argument, so please clarify....
My argument is that we cannot continue this trend of takign whatever QB is left, Weeden, Quinn (to a lesser extent), McCoy, Frye.....We haven't taken a QB at the top of the draft with conviction since Tim Couch.
We cannot win the franchise QB lottery if we defer our pick to whatever the other teams pass up. If any one of the top 4 guys are THE guy, just take him, not later, not trade down, not hope he falls, just take him.
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Got ya, and I agree btw, even though I'm not enamoured with any of the options. I'd rather take one at 4 and be done with it then trade up from 26 burning multiple picks. Only exception is if they know 100% that their target will be available at 26, but that would probably mean it is one of the 2nd Tier guys and not sure about that. Whatever they decide to do, I hope the invest one of the mid rounders for Murray. He's probably the only outside the top guys I couldpotentially live with if they "punt" QB, depending on what else they got
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If any one of the top 4 guys are THE guy, just take him, not later, not trade down, not hope he falls, just take him.
Tim Couch was The Guy and we took him at #1 IMO. None of these guys are a Peyton Manning, Oliver Luck, etc., so if we don't think Any of these guys are The Guy, do you want us to take a QB just to take a QB at #4? JMHO Go Brownies!!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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If they punt QB, we will be sitting watching a 5 win team with Vince Young in December.
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You guys are starting to scare the He#* out of me.
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If any one of the top 4 guys are THE guy, just take him, not later, not trade down, not hope he falls, just take him.
Tim Couch was The Guy and we took him at #1 IMO. None of these guys are a Peyton Manning, Oliver Luck, etc., so if we don't think Any of these guys are The Guy, do you want us to take a QB just to take a QB at #4? JMHO Go Brownies!!!!
So what if they aren't Manning or Luck? I'll take Alex Smith at this freaking point, I'm sick of losing, I'm sick of QB's throwing a pick 6 when we're up 3 points in the 4th quarter. I am sick of horrible QB's. If it takes drafting a league average QB at 4 I would do it to end this going on TWO DECADE drought of horrible QB's. It;'s not like taking the "best player on the board" has won us anything to date, let's change it up for once!!
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It's not like taking the best QB available in the first round has worked out for us either. 
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I was very much against drafting Tannehill at our spot, but I would love to have had him instead of Weeden.
I very much disagree. At least Weeden was so terrible that he flamed out and we can resume looking for someone who might actually fill the QB void. Miami is going to try to make Tannehill into that guy the next 2 seasons when he likely will never get there.
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I don't care, just get a franchise QB on the roster. Period. Don't wait it out, don't try to be cute and get stuck with some scrub, TAKE THE GUY.
Well, we did that with Weeden.
Not even CLOSE!
RG3 was "THE GUY". That's why we offered so much to trade up for him.
Weeden was "THE only GUY left" according to this FO. And even that was after Tannehill. I don't believe that's what anyone is talking about here.
I believe, at least for me, is if they see "THE GUY", their number one QB in this draft, that they really believe in as being there at #4, you take him.
H&H knew they had to win now or be gone. They reached like Stretch Armstrong to make that happen at of pure desperation for their jobs.
I don't believe anyone is advocating anything like taking the 4th QB in the draft at #4.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I was very much against drafting Tannehill at our spot, but I would love to have had him instead of Weeden.
I very much disagree. At least Weeden was so terrible that he flamed out and we can resume looking for someone who might actually fill the QB void. Miami is going to try to make Tannehill into that guy the next 2 seasons when he likely will never get there.
Ill still argue that if we swapped QB and RB that round and went Tannehill/Martin we could of made the payoffs. Tannehill was a good enough passer, Martin makes are run game better, and our defense started hot, so I'm safe to assume had we played better they at least wouldn't have bottemed out like they did.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I was very much against drafting Tannehill at our spot, but I would love to have had him instead of Weeden.
I very much disagree. At least Weeden was so terrible that he flamed out and we can resume looking for someone who might actually fill the QB void. Miami is going to try to make Tannehill into that guy the next 2 seasons when he likely will never get there.
This.
Miami is falling into the trap Cincinnati is in right now. They have a QB that will not be ever be the guy, but the team isn't tanking miserably, so they are not looking to replace the QB. Weeden was considerate enough to be so obviously not the guy we only wasted two years on him.
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I dont know, those bridgewater fanatics sound like they are still wanting to use both firsts to get him.
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I dont know, those bridgewater fanatics sound like they are still wanting to use both firsts to get him.
I support us drafting Bridgewater for many reasons. But I don't support moving up to draft him. Tenn. didn't pick up the fifth year option on Jake Locker, so they are in the market for a QB and I believe the Cardinals may very well be in the market for a QB in this years draft.
Waiting until 26 may get us a QB, but if this FO has one rated head and shoulders above the rest, waiting until 26 may put them in the "what's left" category, which is exactly how we ended up with Weeden.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Waiting until 26 may get us a QB, but if this FO has one rated head and shoulders above the rest, waiting until 26 may put them in the "what's left" category, which is exactly how we ended up with Weeden.
Actually, having morons drafting for the Browns got us Brandon Weeden at #26. It had nothing to do with "what's left".
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Actually, having morons drafting for the Browns got us Brandon Weeden at #26. It had nothing to do with "what's left".
Of course it did. When RG3 was the initial target, Weeden was certainly the leftovers.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Actually, having morons drafting for the Browns got us Brandon Weeden at #26. It had nothing to do with "what's left".
Of course it did. When RG3 was the initial target, Weeden was certainly the leftovers.
That RG3 was the initial target doesn't help the case that they weren't morons. In my view, it only enhances it. Considering what they were reported to have offered for him. It should, in my mind, keep Holmgren out of the HOF. I was speaking with my brother in Texas and it is his considered opinion that Holmgren actually took the job intending to destroy the franchise.
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And to add to my point, Weeden wouldn't have been the "leftovers". The "leftovers" were still on the plate. They picked up the worst bits of the crumbs. The burnt pieces that nobody else would touch.
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And to add to my point, Weeden wouldn't have been the "leftovers". The "leftovers" were still on the plate. They picked up the worst bits of the crumbs. The burnt pieces that nobody else would touch.
Oh he was definitely the crumbs. But often times that's what's available when picking through leftovers. There are exceptions, but percentages tell us that if you wait on leftovers, you usually don't end up with a top notch QB.
Sure there was better left on the plate, but it's kind of funny how many others waited longer to get them. Not like it was so obvious that people were waiting in line to draft them.
H&H screwed the pooch with Weeden, but he wasn't their first choice. That's leftovers. And it's far more rare at that juncture to see the prime cuts left on the table.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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And to add to my point, Weeden wouldn't have been the "leftovers". The "leftovers" were still on the plate. They picked up the worst bits of the crumbs. The burnt pieces that nobody else would touch.
Oh he was definitely the crumbs. But often times that's what's available when picking through leftovers. There are exceptions, but percentages tell us that if you wait on leftovers, you usually don't end up with a top notch QB.
Check the commentaries about it. I was saying that the Browns should take Nick Foles. But, what do I know. He's a top notch QB. Last year wasn't a fluke. It'll be difficult for him to repeat that kind of performance, but he'll perform at a very high level for years to come in Philly.
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Sure there was better left on the plate, but it's kind of funny how many others waited longer to get them. Not like it was so obvious that people were waiting in line to draft them.
Indeed. The same could be done in this draft as well.
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H&H screwed the pooch with Weeden, but he wasn't their first choice. That's leftovers. And it's far more rare at that juncture to see the prime cuts left on the table.
You're right. Richardson was their first choice.  In an interview about that draft, Heckert was asked about Weeden and he said that Weeden was #7 (yes, number 7) on their draft board. They're imbeciles! That any of them got jobs after that is ridiculous!
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That RG3 was the initial target doesn't help the case that they weren't morons.  Credibility check
You forget his rookie year before the injury - after the injury playing him was just dumb. Desperate move by Shanahan cause he knew his job was on the line.
RG would have been great here. Cause he had an injury in Washington doesn't mean he would have had it here.
jmho but if you are saying he was not a good QB prospect then you sir do not have a CLUE what you're talking about. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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I was speaking with my brother in Texas and it is his considered opinion that Holmgren actually took the job intending to destroy the franchise.
Apparently, naive cynicism runs in the family.
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The later you draft a QB the lower his odds of success are. Those are the numbers plain and simple. If you wish to refuse to recognize that, then there's really nothing to discuss.
So landing a later round QB and having good odds of success simply isn't a realistic expectation. Can it happen? Sure it can and it has. But people trying to advocate this is a sound way of approaching it, are advocating something that has been shown far less likely than the alternative.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Credibility check
Okay.
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You forget his rookie year before the injury - after the injury playing him was just dumb. Desperate move by Shanahan cause he knew his job was on the line.
Not at all. I never wanted RG3. I'm not forgetting the rookie season. There were injury concerns about RG3 going in and it was dismissed. Snyder saddled Shanahan with RG3 and Shanahan tried to make the best of a bad situation. At the end of last season, he even shut down RG3 to let him recover more from the injury and to see if Washington had something with Cousins.
I thought it was a professional (not unprofessional) move by Shanahan to shut down RG3. He did the Redskins a favor and took a beating for it but it was the right decision.
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RG would have been great here. Cause he had an injury in Washington doesn't mean he would have had it here.
Maybe, but that's total speculation. He would have had Shurmur for a year and Chudzinski for a year (providing everything else happens exactly as it did) and that's a horrible thing for any QB to go through.
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jmho but if you are saying he was not a good QB prospect then you sir do not have a CLUE what you're talking about.
I didn't think he was worthy of the #2 overall selection and certainly not worth giving up what Washington gave up. I didn't want the Browns to take him at #4 either, but that's beside the point because it didn't happen.
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Except by that logic, we should of taken Weeden at 4.
Oh, My, Tannehill at 4. By that logic they should have taken Tanehill at 4. Can't go back in time now. Just get a Qb, for better or worse, and get this draft over with.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Maybe, but that's total speculation. He would have had Shurmur for a year and Chudzinski for a year (providing everything else happens exactly as it did) and that's a horrible thing for any QB to go through.
If we had RG3 in Shurmur's time here, Shurmur might still be here. Shurmur would have restricted him more to the pocket, and keep his reads quick.
NRTU here ........ but I am actually surprised how many people loved Colt McCoy, yet somehow felt that RG3 was small and fragile, when they are about the same size, with RG3 being slightly bigger. McCoy was a smaller QB, and was awful. People wanted us to keep him though. RG3 is larger than McCoy, and far more talented. No one wanted him. I get that there was a price difference, but some people said that they wouldn't even take RG3 if he was available where we picked. That I don't get.
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The later you draft a QB the lower his odds of success are. Those are the numbers plain and simple. If you wish to refuse to recognize that, then there's really nothing to discuss.
So landing a later round QB and having good odds of success simply isn't a realistic expectation. Can it happen? Sure it can and it has. But people trying to advocate this is a sound way of approaching it, are advocating something that has been shown far less likely than the alternative.
A bust at the top-5 is worst than a bust at #26, ask any Ryan Leaf fans. If a Start Now isn't at the top of your board, picking him early is Not gonna make him better.If a Top Notch #1 type QB is not there at 4, then you Don't pick him! JMHO Go Brownies!!!!
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We cannot win the franchise QB lottery if we defer our pick to whatever the other teams pass up. If any one of the top 4 guys are THE guy, just take him, not later, not trade down, not hope he falls, just take him.
Exactly................
You CAN NOT be afraid to fail because sure ^&%# failure will follow without a good solid QB anyway...............
The KEY is to identify your guy and then get him and forget the cost because the cost of not having him is 14 years and counting of misery...
I have totally stepped aside from posting opinion on who to draft the answer to who to draft is a QB because without a solid QB your toast...
That said I think no I believe Hoyer is going to be really good if he can manage to stay healthy... The way he reads the D pre and post snap tells you all you need to know. He does things no defense can adjust to.. So the amount of actual playing time concerns me then again I know what I saw and this kid has "IT".
So kicking the can so to speak on a QB has to be tied with how you evaluate Hoyer. If the Browns jump on Watkins the Browns are all in with Hoyer, look for #2 to be O line help followed by corner followed by RB....
At this point I would kick the can and bank on Hoyer and get someone (QB) to develop behind him..............
JMHO
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If we had RG3 in Shurmur's time here, Shurmur might still be here.
Again, speculation. I actually think that Shurmur couldn't coach the best players ever to play the game into a formidable team.
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Shurmur would have restricted him more to the pocket, and keep his reads quick.
It wouldn't have mattered one bit. Shurmur simply isn't any good. Period. It doesn't matter if he's the OC or the HC.
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NRTU here ........ but I am actually surprised how many people loved Colt McCoy, yet somehow felt that RG3 was small and fragile, when they are about the same size, with RG3 being slightly bigger. McCoy was a smaller QB, and was awful. People wanted us to keep him though. RG3 is larger than McCoy, and far more talented. No one wanted him. I get that there was a price difference, but some people said that they wouldn't even take RG3 if he was available where we picked. That I don't get.
I liked Colt McCoy and would rather of had him than RG3 or Brandon Weeden. The truth of the situation is that Shurmur couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag and McCoy went to SF where he was behind a QB that wasn't about to lose the job. Now that he's in Washington, he won't get the job because of RG3 and what Washington gave up to get him. If RG3 gets hurt again, McCoy might have a shot to beat out Kirk Cousins for the job.
And I am one of those that wouldn't have taken him if he had fallen to us at #4.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Texans are choosing between
Clowney and Manziel at #1
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