DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why hasn't the team extended Phil Taylor?

As of today team has taken no action to extend Taylor for a fifth year. If they intend to do so it must be exercised by May 3. 5th Year Option Tracker Given that they haven't done so by now suggests that they are not incline to do it. At the least I find this puzzling. Kitchen is the primary depth at the position so I wonder what is the plan?

Yes, I'm well aware that opinions on his play include criticisms of his motor. Currently he plays an important (not to be confused with irreplaceable) role in the defense. Again, what might be the alternative?

Trading big Phil this year for a draft pick would be epically dumb. Outside Jernigan there isn't a NT worth a damn in this draft. There are also 5 teams or so that need a starting nose. He may not be the best but he's by far the best option.

The point of waiting to the last minute would be what?

Anyway, after I started the thread, by coincidence I found a new blog post on DraftBrowns
that addresses this issue. Read the bottom third of the article...BTW the comparison of Taylor to Nick Fairley is apples and oranges in my opinion.


Link

It’s All Smoke” and 5th Year Options
APRIL 30TH, 2014

The Browns might draft a Quarterback high next week, but that won’t deter Brian Hoyer from living his dream. (photo: notsportscenter.com)
DraftBrowns Contributor, Ryan Alton

I’m trying Johnny fans, I really am. But every time I put the blinders on and block out the typical pre-draft noise hitting me square in the face, someone somewhere will say something that gives me serious doubts about the likelihood of the Browns taking a quarterback with the 4th overall pick in the draft.



As we round the curve and prepare to sprint down the final stretch before next week’s NFL Draft, more and more key figures in Berea are voicing their opinions and philosophies regarding the question that EVERYONE has on their minds… “When are you going to FINALLY address the Quarterback position?”



If you ask the incumbent Brian Hoyer, who was a surprisingly active participant in the first day of voluntary mini-camp on Tuesday, barely six months after having surgery to repair a torn ACL, it doesn’t matter when or where or WHO they draft. “Until someone tells me otherwise,” Hoyer told reporters, “I feel like I’m the starter for this team.” Of course. What else was he going to say?



On the constant speculation leading up to the draft about the team that he grew up rooting for… the team that he finally got a chance to play for only to have that chance taken from him a quarter into his 3rd start… the team that everyone in the country believes is seeking to replace him sooner rather than later by drafting a quarterback very high in this draft… Hoyer shrugged “It doesn’t bother me. People are always going to speculate. I know how I feel about myself. I know how my teammates feel. I’m trying to go out and prove it to these new coaches. All I can ask for is a chance and I think I’ll get that.”



Hoyer, the consummate professional, is saying all the right things. And on the first day that he could be out on the field with his teammates, he was… doing everything that he was medically cleared to do. That’s just who he is. Unfortunately for Hoyer, who he ISN’T may be more problematic. He isn’t the man who controls the situation in the draft room next Thursday. To borrow the popular player-in-Hoyer’s situation cliché, he can only control what he can control. The rest is up to someone else.



It’s impossible to take much away from a scheduled pre-draft press conference with an NFL team’s General Manager without also swallowing the entire Cargill Salt Mine underneath the shores of Lake Erie. So, as if he’d be doing this for years, Farmer said a lot without saying much of anything to the assembled media in Berea on Monday. He praised every prospect he was asked about and gave no clear direction on which way he was leaning in the draft, specifically with the 4th overall pick.



He did say, however, that he had a player in mind with that pick and the decision they make will depend largely on whether or not that player is still there. On if he knows who he’ll take at No. 4, Farmer said “Absolutely. The question is, do I get a chance to take him?” Well, I guess we better hope so, eh? The natural follow-up should’ve been “What happens if he’s gone, Ray?”



Of course, not even Farmer’s wife likely knows who that player is and so we are just left to guess. Could that player be a Quarterback? Absolutely. It could also be any one of the other 21 positions in football, though we can whittle that number down based on positional value and the specific positions that the most-talented players in this class, according to the network analysts at least, have identified as “worth taking that high”. Needless to say, we didn’t get much of value from Farmer and no one should be surprised, much less disappointed, in that fact.



The man in the middle of Hoyer and Farmer, of course, is the Head Coach Mike Pettine. He isn’t the one fighting tooth and nail for his job (not yet anyway) and he’s not the one with the power to acquire someone better to fill that job. He’s just the coach. And he has to work with the aforementioned men in order to find a happy medium which will ultimately put the team in the best position to win. Interestingly, Mike Pettine is also the man who has provided the most tantalizing sound bites of late regarding the team’s most important decision in, arguably, a generation. And while he doesn’t possess the final decision-making power that Farmer has, he’s still a voice… a strong voice… and he let it be known to the media how he feels. Maybe.



“That’s been a big part of the discussion in the draft room,” Pettine said on Tuesday. “(Quarterback is) a position that we know we’re going to need to address, and you talk about where you’re going to do it and the impact that it’s going to have on the rest of the team.”

“Certainly it’s an ideal situation if you can get that quarterback later in the draft and that way you’re drafting a position player at four. But we’re in the business of staying true to our sequence, that if our fourth-best player or somebody rated above that is there at the fourth pick that we’ll feel comfortable turning the card in regardless of what the position is.”



So Pettine, in a way, reiterated what Farmer said about taking their (highest-rated) guy at four, provided he’s available, but embellished a bit when talking about their “sequence” and “drafting a position player at four”. Of course, this too means only what you want it to mean. The people who want it to be smoke are convinced it is. And those who want his words to be taken as gospel, despite the fact that we are single-digit days away from the draft, are going to pretend as such.



But let’s assume for a minute it’s not just part of a much larger elaborate smokescreen. Pettine’s message about “minimizing the impact of the QB position” has been well-documented and consistent for weeks. I could be just intoxicated by the haze of smoke wafting out of 76 Lou Groza but I strongly believe, if Pettine had his way, he’d rather roll with Hoyer and surround him the best supporting cast possible, leaving the QB decision to be made later. Why? Because he’s an NFL Head Coach whose clock started ticking the moment he was introduced to the Cleveland media in January. He knows he has to win games to keep his job. He needn’t look further than the guy’s office he just refurnished with his own belongings to know that his leash is short. “We’re in the ‘win now’ business and as history has shown, it’s very difficult to do with a rookie quarterback.” Can’t argue there Coach.



Of course, I could just be reading into things (aren’t we all?) but as much as I want to believe in Johnny Manziel or one of the other QBs who has been associated with the Browns over the past few days, I have a hard time believing the pick at 4 will be a Quarterback. Call it anything from my gut feeling to being a complete idiot, it really doesn’t matter to me. I’m not going to pound my chest and shout “Look at me!” if I’m right. But I feel, if you add Hoyer’s surprising recovery and necessary “This is MY team” mindset with Farmer/Pettine’s shared philosophy of surrounding the QB of a “Win Now” team with as much talent as possible, the odds are slim that the pick at 4 is going to be a QB.



The one caveat I must throw in is, if the highest-rated player available on the Browns draft board (which we will never see) is Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Blake Bortles or heaven forbid, Derek Carr, then obviously the pick will be one of those guys. I guess therein lies the ultimate million-dollar question… “Is one of the QBs the highest-rated player according to the Browns, when they are on the clock at 4?” Maybe. Maybe not. We’re just going to have to wait to find out.



While everyone in town is completely pre-occupied with the draft and the ever-present QB query, there’s another decision involving the Browns that is about to come to pass… and NO ONE is talking about it. The Browns have until Saturday to decide whether or not to sign starting Nose Tackle Phil Taylor to a 5th year option.



Taylor is heading into his fourth full season with the team since being drafted in 2011, after the Browns moved down from the 6th to the 21st pick in the infamous Julio Jones trade with Atlanta. If the Browns decide not to pay Taylor (about $5.5 million) to ensure he is a Brown through the 2015 season, he will be set to become an Unrestricted Free Agent in March. Personally, I have no idea why they wouldn’t pay the extra amount to hold onto the rights for Taylor for the next 22 months instead of the next 10. And I’m not alone.



Former player-turned-analyst Ross Tucker, who writes for The Sporting News, shared his opinion on teams weighing the 5th year option in his column Wednesday. “It’s basically an option to have an option if you think about it. It gives any of these teams the right to either extend, release or renegotiate with these players next January or February—while having all of the control. There’s no reason not to pick it up unless the player has been a huge disappointment or the team doesn’t even want to take on the very small risk that a player suffers such a devastating injury, that it puts the team on the hook for his 2015 salary.”



It’s hard to argue with Tucker’s thoughts here. Why WOULDN’T the Browns give Taylor the fifth year… if not for him, but for them? It gives the team an advantage in keeping a good player on the roster rather than having him walk out the door and getting nothing in return next March. Unless Taylor was a colossal bust and the team is simply ready to cut bait, I see no reason not to invest in the ability to control the situation.



It seems the Detroit Lions are heading down the same exact path with one of their star Defensive linemen, Nick Fairley. Tucker writes “I have no idea why a team like the Detroit Lions would decline to pick up defensive tackle Nick Fairley’s option. The Lions reportedly want to motivate Fairley by having him enter a “contract” year, but how about picking up the option and telling him that if he doesn’t perform, they are going to release him after the season? It’s the exact same thing from Fairley’s perspective. As for the Lions, they get to have him under contract for a very reasonable salary in 2015 should he have a great season.” Swap out Fairley and the Lions and insert Taylor and the Browns. It’s the same situation. And it makes no sense.



What’s even more perplexing is the local media’s inability to ignore the draft and “QB Decision: 2014” long enough to find out. If only they had a chance to ask Ray Farmer about something other than… Donald Sterling? Stay tuned, I guess.

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The point of waiting to the last minute would be what?

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well if they are trying to work out a long term contract why not wait until the last minute?

if they don't like him well. why do it?

if they are trying to trade well the new team would like there own contract so why bother?

any way that you look at it though there is time.

This idea that Taylor is an asset that we are considering trading for a another draft pick is rather far-fetched.

Here is a link to a very good article discussing Pettine's base defensive scheme and what Browns' players could fill the roles previously filled by Bills players. Taking Taylor out of that front diminishes it's effectiveness. Its really that simple.

Pettine's base D

It's my (minority) opinion that Taylor hasn't lived up to his draft slot and hype. I say that having liked the selection when it was made.

To this point in his career, Taylor hasn't been the run-stopping extraordinaire that he was supposed to be. His lack of rush skills are unfortunate. His health record is spotty, and his conditioning has continued to be questioned.

I wouldn't pick up his option, either.

As has been noted before, it's a make-or-break year for Taylor.

Ok, reasonable observers can reach different conclusions. I guess my point again would be in the absence of an obvious alternative consider a situation where Taylor plays counter to your evaluation of him this coming season. Now the season ends his contract is done. At that point the team wants to resign him but he gets a better deal elsewhere. He's gone and no compensation to the team in return.

Or, retain his rights through an extension and re-evaluate him after the year. If he's responded well within the new scheme you have him for '15 at a price point that is more to your liking.

Not extending him limits the teams options.

I highly doubt we see much of a Buffalo defense this year. Pettine will probably run what he was doing with the Jets. He just had no linebacker talent at Buffalo so he had to run a 4-2-5 type defense.

Even if we knew that to be true and we don't, does that lessen the need for a pure 0 technique in the defense?

That "gimicky", my word, Buffalo defense was number 1 in the league in sacks last year.

We pretty much know that's the reason they ran it. Just like we knew Malzahan switched to the triple option at Auburn because their QB can't throw the ball well. I also don't think it's something we should critique them for but applaud them for. That's exactly what coaches should be doing. But I also don't think it's fair to forecast what defense we will be running based off of Buffalo which is my main objection. I actually like Rubin, at least enough to pick up the team option.

That Bills D was one of the best against the pass because they had corners already deployed, however they were 28 against the run because of it. But again, that's much better on both ends than what they would have been had Pettine ran a 3-4 with those pieces.

we wanna wait and then overpay like we did mack

Here's what's reasonable about it. The team still retains the option of paying or not paying it based on his play. Secondly it is a concrete figure that can be planned for. It removes one more unknown as they manage the cap for '15.

I don't accept the notion that paying him the $5.5 mil locks the team in to that number as his base in a new contract. Compensation varies widely on a year-to-year basis in NFL contracts. We don't have to look any further than Mack's deal to see evidence of that. If you have evidence that players around the league who have been extended establish that number as a floor in their 2nd contract. That would inform my opinion.

It may suggest that the fifth year salary numbers aren't what they want to pay.,

It may suggest that they just don't think he's all that good for the system they intend to run

It may suggest that they are sitting down and discussing a long term deal

It may suggest that he takes plays off.

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We don't have to look any further than Mack's deal to see evidence of that

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that's right. we tag him for tem mil guaranty. and that was part of his contract for this year. the way it worked out because of the tag we end up paying more in guaranty money than we should of I think.

Ii've already addressed the flaw of your first argument. Extending doesn't obligate the team to pay the 5th year salary. It does give the team more options including moving Taylor and receiving some compensation in return

If they don't view him as a fit then we should see some movement to address that next weekend. It's unlikely they get a better option than Taylor during veteran cuts. If they are working on a long term deal the mention of that here, is the first mention I've heard of it. Mack, Haden, Cameron, have all given some indication of ongoing negotiations. I didn't hear that either from Taylor and definitely not from the team.

There is no flaw... None..

All I'm saying is, it may be what you say, but it may be several other things

No argument from me, Just saying there are many possible reasons for him not being extended yet. And it may all be moot if they extend him by Saturday or reach a long term agreement.

Let him play it out this year.

Prove himself.

Because up till now, he hasn't proved much...

j/c

I have a feeling he's going to want Ngata type money ... and we'll say goodbye

I would guess that we'll see this happen on the 3rd, if we exercise the option. According to this article, it's stupid to do so beforehand. (and we just had a camp, so what if we had picked up that option, and Taylor had been hurt?)

Fifth-year options for 2011 first-round picks likely won’t be exercised before May 3 | ProFootballTalk
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...d-before-may-3/

The window for exercising the option opens after the player’s third regular season ends, and it continues through May 3. As one league source recently explained it, teams would be foolish to exercise the option before May 3.

They’d be foolish to do it because the amount of the fifth-year salary becomes immediately guaranteed for injury once the option is exercised. Thus, if a team exercises the option now and the player suffers a serious injury during any postseason games or offseason workouts before May 3, the team would be on the hook for the money in the event the injury ends the player’s career or keeps him out of action for two seasons.

Phil has played at an All pro level for half of the past two seasons. When he came back from his pec injury and then the first 6-8 games last year. Can't really re-sign a guy who plays half season.

J/c...

possibly its something simple like...we just like Rubin Better.

jmho

I'm sure what he's asking for isn't worth it.I wouldn't re-sign him as he hasn't shown to be a full time,high level player.

i would not understand at all if we did not keep him for a 5th year....i think he has played a pro bowl level for a nose tackle.....i would be shocked if this was his last season here and very dissapointed

j/c

This is what Phil himself is saying about the situation. Spin away...


YT, this is something I wasn't aware of and is a possible explanation for the delay.

EO, easily they may like Rubin better, even with that what advantage does the team receive by not protecting its right to receive compensation, even it they do intend to go in a different direction? To that end if they do intend to pursue another option they better get busy. Drafting a guy next year instead of getting a guy now is just short sighted. Even if they intend to move Rubin over after Taylor is out of here. He was a first round pick! Ask yourself if the team should allow that to happen with no way of getting any return on that pick. I vote no.

That Guy, if the team wants him to "prove" himself, why not do that and protect your right to get something in return in the event he doesn't prove it?

Dawg4Life, he doesn't appear to be in long-term negotiations on a new deal. The price for an 1 year extention is set at $5.5 mil.

BPG, this is not a resigning, see above.

Chrispiece, there is no negotiating over the price of this one year extention, see above.

I think that he's a good player, but I don't necessarily believe that he has played at a Pro Bowl level. I don't think that he is anywhere near being in the same league as a guy like Ngata, for example. he doesn't dominate the middle like Ngata does.

Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot · 49s
#Browns have exercised the option on Phil Taylor's contract for the fifth year, source said.

https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot

One of my favorite players and glad it was done. Got him for two more years and maybe an extension can be worked out in the interim.

Plus this may add confidence to Joe Haden and Jordan Cameron in their potential deals.

me too.

Now on to the next doomsday disaster.

No wait.... correct that... next will be the back lash from those that do not like PT on how he sucks and is not worth the money... then the next if we dont do this we are doomed thread.

Good news to me!