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Does anyone else think it's unlikely the Browns will take a QB in the early part of the draft,, meaning rounds 1,2 or 3 ?
The reason I think it's so darned unlikely is that we don't have a mentor for him! Charlie has too much learning to do himself to be a mentor and besides, he's young and I expect him to fight for the starting job anyway.
If they would have brought in a seasoned vet to act as a mentor, then I'd say the likelyhood of moving up to get either Quinn or Russell would be certain..
But they didn't do that! YET!
Anyone have a list of available seasoned veteran QB's?
Vinnie Testiverde
Drew Bledsoe (I thought he retired, but could he be lured back..RAC knows him pretty well)
Who Else?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
The NEEDS on this football team have been identified...And at the TOP OF THE LIST are 3 specific areas...
QB
OL
DL
I have to disagree with you bro. The needs right now are
OL
OL
DL
CB
DL
Next year we can add
RB
OL
DL
and MAYBE QB
WR
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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All Pro
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Quote:
The needs right now are
OL
OL
DL
CB
DL
I agree 100%.
We were manhandled up front on both sides of the ball all last season. You win games in the trenches and we still need help in the trenches.
By the way, does anybody else think Brady Quinn is getting a 'big head' much like Eli Manning a few years ago. Eli thought he was All-World before the draft and Quinn is talking himself up much in the same manner.
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The way I see it.
Both Peterson and Quinn have marketable qualities. Maybe Quinn a bit more than Peterson, but Peterson would be marketed as the second coming of Jim Brown.
If the Browns draft Quinn, he starts from day one. He has to. All the hype about being NFL ready, learning under Wies, Wies's comments point to the fact that Quinn should start. A couple of weeks ago, there was an article that Frye and Anderson were having to learn the new offense, that is not a big leap for Quinn.
I think Peterson would buy Frye another year by taking some of the pressure off of Frye. You have to be able to run the ball, and frankly Peterson is a lot better than anything the Browns have. Lewis is an experiment and an insurance policy if Peterson is injuried.
Russell will take at least half a year to develop, if the Browns start stinking up the joint, he will be put in, ready or not.
Thomas is just not the sexy pick, He may be the right pick, as Savage has indicated, but that would surprise the media world because most have the it as Quinn or Peterson. I would have no problem with the Browns taking Thomas, followed by Grubbs/Blaylock/Sears and "mysteriously" having a breakout season from Frye, and Lewis having renewed youth.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
You have to be able to run the ball, and frankly Peterson is a lot better than anything the Browns have. Lewis is an experiment and an insurance policy if Peterson is injuried.
I don't think Jamal NOR the Browns look at it that way. Unless Jamal shows that he continues to severely slip or gets injured himself, Jamal is the man at RB this year for the Browns. I mean come on he's only 28. If we pick Peterson or otherwise, it will be to spell Lewis and get another year under their belt, NOT to be the starter.
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I would have no problem with the Browns taking Thomas, followed by Grubbs/Blaylock/Sears and "mysteriously" having a breakout season from Frye, and Lewis having renewed youth.
Exactly my friend, exactly
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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going from memory.
Interesting stat from last year, Lewis against teams other than the Browns
ypr. = 3.5
that is an experiment given the Cleveland OL.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Dawg Talker
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1) Lewis is only 28, that's not past his prime 2) He's got a one-year tryout here to prove his worth and reel in the final big $ contract of his career, whether that be here or elsewhere. He'll be plenty motivated to get the job done. 3) You don't just hand over the keys to the bus to a rookie over a proven All-Pro, even if that All-Pro had a down year the previous season by his standards. Ease the rookie in and split carries at most. 4) The "experiment" won't have to be much of one because the Browns OLine will get addressed with pick #3 next weekend 
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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It's funny that RAC and Savage don't seem too concerned about this 'mentoring' thing for Frye/Anderson...maybe that mentor guy is actually Dorsey - even though he's hardly played as a pro. By all accounts, he's a smart guy. Be certain that I find that hard to believe, but it sure makes me wonder. He wouldn't be the first guy to be a good QB coach-type even though he never played/starred in the NFL. However, I agree with your point. Frye did have Dilfer for awhile and maybe/hopefully that's all he needed. But, I would certainly prefer a Vinny-type mentor for a rook QB. Personally, I'm hoping the point is mute and we don't have to worry about mentoring a rook QB for a long time. 
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Legend
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I'm probably thinking too much on this subject. Mainly because I really want to give Charlie a Clean shot at it.. That's really not the right way to look at it to be honest, but I think that's what happening.
I should point out that if we were a Franchise QB or Stud Running Back from contending, I'd really want one of the top two QB's or Peterson.. But we just aren't there yet so I just seem to think we have time to see if Charlie or Derek can grow. JMO however.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I can see this is one of those arguments where no one will give an inch.
All I'm going to say is this: If you, Toad, and others think that marketing is not a consideration in to who a team drafts, you are incredibly naive. And that is one word I would have never previously assigned to either one of you.
So........I'm going to say this w/out any malice at all. You guys are either naive or full of . Personally, I almost hope you are full of . Because you are two of the guys I actually read, and it would be sad to know I have been wasting that much time reading people who don't have a clue. 
What.......you didn't allready know Diam and I were FOS? Pull your head out *L*
I'll say it again in summary so that it sinks in..............In this draft, picking at 3, Savage isn't going to take one player over another because he thinks he can sell more jerseys, or be able to explain the pick and make it more palatable to the press  Yes, the fanbase and the media play a role, but NOT in draft selection at this point in the draft. They can play a role when it comes to happenings during the season, but at this point, hardly any at all.
The way you sell more jerseys is to WIN. The way to get on Monday Night Football is to WIN. Picking the wrong player won't help us WIN. WINing cures all.
Sinkin' in yet? *L*
He didn't take Ngata, who would have sold more jerseys than Wimbley, and who was CLEARLY the more recognizable player. He took the guy that INHO helped the team more.
That's what he's going to do now.
Besides, who'd set the table on which player would sell more jerseys? Savage is a SCOUT, not a marketing rep. He's not going to let the sales department (or whatever the Hell they call it in Berea) tell him which guy they think will sell a couple thousand more jerseys.
When one considers that we're talking about paying this player millions of dollars while putting Opie's job on the line, I think it's rather shortsighted bordering on paranoid to worry and opine that Savage is going to let marketing get in the way of talent evaluation here.
In three years, if the wrong player is taken at this important position in the draft, it won't matter how many jerseys he sells to Opie if he's looking for work. Winning is what sells, not jerseys of good players on bad teams.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Earlier, Toad accused me of painting things black and white. Hey Toad, the above is an example of black and white.
No I didn't meatball *L*
I accused you of painting things in black and white when you want to push an agenda
I guess you conveniently forgot that I said you tend to NOT paint things in black and white, and that it's something I respect.
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Daman: Name one person who said that Savage would make a pick to save his job. You sure didn't hear that from either Mav or myself. What we are saying is that marketing, selling, justifying...whatever you wanna call it.......does exist in the NFL.
If Daman looks, he'll find several. They exist around here. I've read it, but don't feel like diggin' to find'em.
Now you and Mav aren't saying it just exists. In turn, nobody is saying it DOESN'T exist However, you two are taking it a step further. You've admitted being afraid that we're going to do it.
Big difference.
Hell, you two should send me a check. I'm trying to calm your nerves while adding years to your life by telling you Savage isn't that stOOpid.
I'll PM you my address. No personal checks (no offense) 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Careful Vers,,,, Don't make any bets with Toad,, I may have to show up at his house next easter with wearing a pink bunny suit and carrying a holiday ham... Not a site you want to see,, Trust me!  By the way, I do now remember something about who said what... it was an article written by some national mouth that said that Savage has to draft a "sexy pick" in order to save his and RAC's job,,, normally, I would care less about one of those idiots saying something like that, but then we have at least 5 or 6 posters on here agree with it,,, Dang, I sure wish I could find that article and that thread...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The way you sell more jerseys is to WIN. The way to get on Monday Night Football is to WIN. Picking the wrong player won't help us WIN. WINing cures all.
Sinkin' in yet? *L*
Nah, not really. You either don't understand what I am saying, or don't want to. Again, I almost hope it's the latter.
Here's a clue for the rest of you............I sure as hell wasn't talking about jersey sales. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
Quote:
The way you sell more jerseys is to WIN. The way to get on Monday Night Football is to WIN. Picking the wrong player won't help us WIN. WINing cures all.
Sinkin' in yet? *L*
Nah, not really. You either don't understand what I am saying, or don't want to. Again, I almost hope it's the latter.
Here's a clue for the rest of you............I sure as hell wasn't talking about jersey sales.
Are you getting your wish about Junior selling the team?
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J/C
I`am seeing alot of talk about marketing...selling tickets....& jerseys...to save the team or to save some-ones job....
Myself...I don`t see anyone at 3 being that....marketable player.....
I do agree that winning as a team gets the House full and jerseys sold.....And I have never seen a stadium full of fans wearing the same Number......
This team needs an impact player...Who can be that guy?
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Do you really think the season ticket base isn't important to a NFL football team? Do you also believe that a team doesn't cringe when season ticket holders don't even bother to sell or give away their tickets, and instead leave the seats empty?
Am I the only one who thinks that NFL teams don't mind any kind of talk about their team? Praise is great, but they don't even mind anger and scathing criticism. What they do not want is apathy. Apathy is like the bubonic plague. Talk is good. It shows people care. Indifference is a dreaded curse for NFL teams. The Browns haven't reached that point yet, but I know that a lot of people who used to religiously follow the Browns really don't give a rat's ass anymore. They are doing other things on Sundays.
Guys...........not everyone is as crazy about the Browns as we are. The Browns don't have to worry about most of us.....but, believe me.........the season ticket holders are very important to the Cleveland Browns and to think otherwise........is delusional.
Now...........connect the dots.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Not sure what your saying Vers........But if your replying drafting BQ is going to fill the stadium......Your off your freakin rocker....
Yes I do agree the season ticket base is important to the NFL...and the teams...
But drafting at 3 isn`t a guarantee we have a superstar pro-bowler..in the makings.....
Has any of the draft picks we have had fill up the seats...Hell no....got to win to fill up those seats...Picking at # 3 and having the guy sit on the bench isn`t going to have fans rushing to buy season tickets............
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What the are you talking about? When did I mention Quinn? Jesus......you guys are so quick to pounce on stuff that you forget what you pounced on. This crap all started when I said they might not draft Joe Thomas because he would be a hard sell. Off my freaking rocker. Yeah, for wasting my time trying to explain things that should not even need explained. Later...........
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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This crap all started when I said they might not draft Joe Thomas because he would be a hard sell.
Think before u post...lol...Know what ur saying...But thomas could also be a good sell.....specially since most on here know the building of a line is nessassary....
look at what could have been with bentley....o-line big sell.........
Last edited by DeisleDawg; 04/22/07 10:29 PM.
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2nd String
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Thomas is the safest pick and IMO the best for the team given how bad our OL has been in the past. Peterson or Johnson are the other two you gotta consider at 3. They both have the best chance to be that spark that ignites an offense. They're are THE TWO best athletes physically in this draft. Quinn would come in and be a solid starting QB right away. I have no doubt in that. But I don't think his ceiling is much higher than just that. A #3 QB should be a perennial pro-bowler in theory. Russell could be the next great QB. He has all the measureables. But he too could also be just that. Great measureables and not such a good QB. I tend to think he'll be more towards the first, but at this point in our franchise we need to take a pick we have no doubts about. I have no doubts about Thomas, Johnson, or Peterson. I don't worry about Peterson's injury history. But I do recognize that he's the favorite if we're talking about who would be more likely to get hurt for the season. Even if he didn't have previous history I'd bet on him. He's a RB. Based on the aforementioned I don't want us to draft a QB giving Frye the job by default. There really aren't any veterans available that I'd want. Even Green. That's my opinion on the thread.  "Wait".....scratches head....."Is this marketing class?" 
[color:"yellow"]"Everybody has an opinion. And so whoever's opinion that is....that's his opinion" -Romeo-
[color:"blue"]Boo fair weather fans!......Hooray Browns![/color]
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Legend
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Do you really think the season ticket base isn't important to a NFL football team?
Of course they are important,, but we were talking about the Browns, and they sell out no matter what the team does. So in Cleveland, is it a big deal,,, No, not really! (sad but true)
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Guys...........not everyone is as crazy about the Browns as we are. The Browns don't have to worry about most of us.....but, believe me.........the season ticket holders are very important to the Cleveland Browns and to think otherwise........is delusional.
Look, they do find it important to sell out the seats,,, for sure. I don't think anyone with a brain would argue that with you... But again, the Browns have a waiting list of people wanting season tickets,, so if one person no longer wants thiers, thier is someone waiting to buy them..
As for being delusional,, hey, I've lived 55 years like that, I"m going for the record... so come up off me about it
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I know what you're saying, but even though we've a horrid record since the new expansion team came to town, we still sell out. As long as we're not the CArds, who can't sell out a game to save their lives, the organization won't worry about putting butts in seats. They allready have the fanbase locked down and the money is being raked in.
The bottom line is that they don't have to worry about what you're talking about. The money is flowing. Going for the sexy pick isn't a concern.
Savage proved it last year. Wimbley......a guy nobody had really heard of until we drafted him.......a sexy pick? *L*
That's good enough for me.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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We agree on this Toad, but to be totally fair, the one caviat is that we haven't raised ticket prices in either 2 or 3 years.. Randy made a big deal of that saying something to the effect that until we improve the product we won't raise prices. (I'm paraphrasing on this so it's not an exact quote)
Just thought I would share that info with ya all!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Psssst .. the team could care less about ticket sales ... and i dont care how nieve Vers thinks i am ... we SELL PLENTY OF TICKETS .. no need for the team to worry about them .. how many seats went unsold last year??? the $$$ on game day is in the LUXURY BOXES .... thats what the team cares about as far as the stadium sales go .. thats where all the $$$$$ is .. that is a MAJOR MAJOR REASON why Moddell left .. well that and concessions and parking ... but the LUXURY SUITES and the fact the muni had none was HUGE ... and Vers .. u may think i'm nieve .. but WINNING puts asses in the seats and in the luxury boxes and in browns gear and gets the press to WRITE GOOD THINGS (there .. i have no clue and am not near smart enough to decipher what angle your taking here .. but that covers them all .. *L* .. now u can snicker and think i'm nieve/stupid or whatever with what ever your little inside secret is u dont wanna share with us .. ) ... PERIOD ... its one of the very few rules in life that has no exceptions ... EVER ... WIN AND THE $$$$$ WILL FOLLOW ... PERIOD .. i may be nieve ... but i'm right ..
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that is a MAJOR MAJOR REASON why Moddell left .. well that and concessions and parking ... but the LUXURY SUITES and the fact the muni had none was HUGE ...
The lack of luxury suites at the Old Muni was surely a problem,, but the real reason Modell had to pack up and leave town is because he's a IDIOT with finances.
He had a team that was one of the leagues most followed.. HUGE fanbase,, Loyal beyond belief,, He managed to lose money in that environment,,, Nobody else did with the same problems that Muni had..
By the way, muni didn't have luxury suites, but there were loges there that were of a similar nature to luxury boxes,, just not nearly as fancy.
There also wasn't as many of them as thier are now in CBS.
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the $$$ on game day is in the LUXURY BOXES ....
Well, kinda I guess.. Each luxury box owner pays a huge some of money in addition to the game tickets to own that box... at one time, I think the costs were in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.. But that's a one time charge, then there is some kinda annual fee but I forget what they call it now.. That's where the money is... not so much on game day only!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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*LOL* .. your A TRIP ..
Modell had the worsed lease/parking/concession deal in the league .. NOT EVEN A CLOSE SECOND .. he also had the oldest stadium to boot .. and a city that REFUSED TO re-negotiate the crappy lease/parking/concession deal ..
Modell was a MORON when it came to $$$$ .. no doubt .. but he had the ABSOLUTE WORSED stadium revenue in the league ... and it wasnt even close ... your talking about sumptin u have no clue about ..
and thats not what this is about ... i guess i used a real poor example bringing that idiot up and expecting it to go untouched ... my fault ...
and what are u talking about the luxury boxes and their fees for in relation to game day?? what do the Browns care when they get their $$$$ ... and the "fees" for those things go up when we win .. its simple economics ..
i have no clue what your even trying to say there .. i certainly hope your not trying to educate me on how the pricing for the boxes works ... cause your taking what appears to be a shot in the dark ...
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Wasn't there something on the ballot coming up that would have insured him a new stadium when he ANNOUNCED his departure? Didn't he KNOW that the voters were going to pass it and this was his LAST chance to play the "poor me" card and move BEFORE the measure was passed? A real poor example bringing that idiot up and expecting it to go untouched? Now there we agree 100%!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Actually Pit .. No ,... your wrong .. there was a prop on the ballot to refurbish the stadium ... not give him a new one ... this after building the gund and the jake ... so no .. there was nuttin on the ballot for a NEW STADIUM ... if memory serves me correct that passed when the NFL said u could ahve your team back if u meet these criteria and that was one of them .. Modell was a MORON and brought alot of this on himself .. if i recall correctly he rented the stadium for a buck a year .. and got to charge the Indians "rent" by taking their revenues .. he got diddly off of concessions and parking ... obvioulsy when the Indians left so did ALOT OF HIS REVENUES ... Daman was right about one thing .. they did have "luxury boxes" .. i use that term loosely .. *L* .. we had a decrepite old stadium that was literally falling apart ... Moddel's biggest revenue stream had gone away with the Indians ... the city wouldn't budge on parking/concessions and wouldn't build him a new stadium .. baltiwhore then made him a deal he'd of been a fool to turn down .. they played us like a piano and exploited the hell out of a situation .. if some of u can ever get over the hate and loathng of Moddel you'll see the city and White were just as much to blame as the moron .. that and the fact u had a city in Baltiwhore that had been craving a ftanchis for about 15 years ... BAD TIMING my man ... BAD TIMING .. many things had to come to together at the same time and they did ... sparked by the pissin match between White and Moddel .. then the fuel to the fire was the situation in Baltiwhore .. but through hate filled the eyes its hard to see the truth ....
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Quote:
Actually Pit .. No ,... your wrong .. there was a prop on the ballot to refurbish the stadium ... not give him a new one ... this after building the gund and the jake ... so no .. there was nuttin on the ballot for a NEW STADIUM ... if memory serves me correct that passed when the NFL said u could ahve your team back if u meet these criteria and that was one of them ..
Modell was a MORON and brought alot of this on himself .. if i recall correctly he rented the stadium for a buck a year .. and got to charge the Indians "rent" by taking their revenues .. he got diddly off of concessions and parking ... obvioulsy when the Indians left so did ALOT OF HIS REVENUES ...
Daman was right about one thing .. they did have "luxury boxes" .. i use that term loosely .. *L* .. we had a decrepite old stadium that was literally falling apart ... Moddel's biggest revenue stream had gone away with the Indians ... the city wouldn't budge on parking/concessions and wouldn't build him a new stadium .. baltiwhore then made him a deal he'd of been a fool to turn down .. they played us like a piano and exploited the hell out of a situation ..
if some of u can ever get over the hate and loathng of Moddel you'll see the city and White were just as much to blame as the moron .. that and the fact u had a city in Baltiwhore that had been craving a ftanchis for about 15 years ... BAD TIMING my man ... BAD TIMING ..
many things had to come to together at the same time and they did ... sparked by the pissin match between White and Moddel .. then the fuel to the fire was the situation in Baltiwhore .. but through hate filled the eyes its hard to see the truth ....
Just wondering, what would a renovated Municipal Stadium been like compared to CBS now? I remember the art for it vaguely, but I can't find the picture. Anyone got it?
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try city of cleveland records....
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Toad I have a question,why does Charlie Frye create so much discussion?
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Model owned the stadium, when the city built Jacobs field, Model lost his only tennent.
He wanted a deal with the city, from my memory it was build me a stadium, and I will own it. The rationale was that Model had "funded" the stadium for many years for the city, and this would get him back to square.
Obviously this arrangement would be unacceptable to the city, so they could never get off of square one, and the rest is history.
Any concept of renovation of that facility is so insane, whoever funded the concept should have had their sanity questioned.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Legend
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Quote:
Modell had the worsed lease/parking/concession deal in the league .. NOT EVEN A CLOSE SECOND
El WrongO man,,,, He had about the same concession deal as anyone else.. His lease was for a buck a year, but he had to do the maintenance on the facility which was rather expensive... and parking was a problem but not the worse in the league,, Pittsburghs was worse just to name one.
Another thing that contributed to his downfall financially was the loss of revenue from the Indians.. that's when they moved to Jacobs Field! That was a HUGE factor.
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but he had the ABSOLUTE WORSED stadium revenue in the league ... and it wasnt even close ... your talking about sumptin u have no clue about
Now that just ticks me off man,,, even when I disagree with you,, I don't say stuff like that to you do I... and whats worse, you are WRONGO again.. He didn't have the worse stadium revenue in the league,,, Where in the hell do you come up with this crap.. is it that if you say it, we are all supposed to fall in line like a bunch of lemmings,,,,, YOU ARE WRONG!
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cause your taking what appears to be a shot in the dark ...
WOW, talk about the Pot calling the Kettle Black,,, Geez....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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This thread is getting way off topic, but, Modell was asked to join in on the whole Gateway project which on the surface contained the Jake and Gund arena and a rather large parking garage.
The City offered to build a stadium for the Browns in that area but Modell didn't want to be part of it.. so, he got left behind... it was his choice but he tells a different story. (that's to be expected I guess)
What nobody is saying is this... in the mid 80's, a minority owner of the Browns, Robert Gries, sued Modell because he didn't want to take over the stadium via a company that Modell started (Stadium Corporation). Gries felt it would be the downfall of the organization because he felt the maintenence and upkeep for that facility would be way to expensive..
Modell disagreed and was later proven wrong when he couldn't make it work. Basically, had Gries been the majority owner, things would not have gone down hill so fast..
Modell made too many mistakes,,,,that's what actually happened!
Parking, concessions,,, that stuff was a smoke screen to add fuel to the fire to get the city to do something.. But by then, Modell had ticked off enough people that nobody wanted to help him.... Bad move by the city and the political establishment...they didn't believe that Modell would move the team,,, he called the bluff and the rest you know!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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After the draft on Saturday... make a new thread:
Crennel: Frye still QB, for 07
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Toad I have a question,why does Charlie Frye create so much discussion?
He represents so many things to so many people, some good, some bad, and some unknown.
Local kid who grew up a Browns fan is drafted by his hometown team. Sounds alot like another former QB who played here and succeeded.
Great kid with the ideal work ethic and humility that a team wants in their guy. Liked by the fans and the players, he's the guy everyone pulls for to make it.
Great scrambler with limited NFL passing ability, it's harder to envision a guy with a light arm and questionable abilities making it than a guy with obvious, superior talent.
You have one crowd that doesn't give a flip about where he grew up or his intangibles and only care about a soft arm, questionable accuracy, hand size, and perceived lack of developement.
You have the other crowd that see's a guy who can be like Rich Gannon, who overcame his limitations to be a pro-bowl QB. They see Frye play behind a terrible line for two seasons and understand he shouldn't be judged based on his numbers. Is it the reason why he's not playing well and developing, or is it just an excuse, disguising the fact that he lacks the required abilities to succeed in the league?
Then there's the obvious talk about QB's from the GM of the team. Is Frye still the man? Is he destined to be a backup until his contract is up then he's allowed to walk?
The answer is that Frye isn't an obvious NFL starter because of limitations to his game, but he's also been handed a bad hand on offense and isn't totally responsible for the failures of the unit.
Of course then there's human nature, where a guy will always have a built in excuse in the eyes of some people, while on the other hand no matter how good he does he'll never be good enough. Finding the truth that lies in the middle is the tough part, and the very basis for all the discussion.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Leading Passer on the Browns
1999 - Couch
2000 - Couch
2001 - Couch - 2nd best record since the Browns return
2002 - Couch - Made Playoffs, only winning record since the Browns return
2003 - Holcomb
2004 - Garcia
2005 - Dilfer
2006 - Frye
But hey, let's move on to our 6th QB in 6 years. Why not? It's worked so well in the past. What's the need for continuity?
Draft Joe Thomas
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And just what does all that tell you?......We need an OL!
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Crennel: Frye still QB, for now
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