|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,195
Dawg Talker
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,195 |
Quote:
You being the OP of this discussion, was wondering what you would do if presented with a home invasion and also what you would expect others to do... I mean I can clearly gather you're mostly opposed to deadly force if possible but how long should someone wait and what needs to take place before you find it justified for someone to defend themselves? I would also be interested in any and all posters on here to weigh in on this question!
I think home invasion has been blown out of proportion by the gun industry. I'm not sure that puts me in opposition of deadly force though. I actually don't understand what I've said that causes you to believe that. I've always been speaking specifically to this incident and the over-reaction that seems to have been endorsed in some of the responses I've read.
In this specific case using the term "deadly force" refers to the pre meditated murder of a person.
I understand the desire to switch focus from the murderer to the person who was in the wrong place at the wrong time doing a wrong thing, but the focus in this case should be; have we decided we are willing to defend the behavior of setting a trap to murder because we have convinced ourselves the world is that evil?
Please don't think I'm supporting the polar opposite. I think as a culture we have given into extremism and we now accept it as normal. That belief is nowhere close to believing we should give a warm dinner and flowers to someone threatening our lives. My belief is, there is danger, but we are not in "end times".
Opposition to vigilante justice is the focus. It can be diverted to opposition to deadly force, but that would misleading. Vigilantism is the misuse of deadly force.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Quote:
And that's fine that you typed it slowly. However, anyone can look at the definition for the word "force" and see that this was not done by exerting any force.
I understood everything you posted in its entirety. I don't see how anyone walking into a garage when the door is wide open "forced entry" into anything.
I believe either that does not constitute "forced entry" and if they wish to include such circumstances into the law, the wording would have to be changed in order to do so.
So I understand you feel it MIGHT or MIGHT NOT qualify as forced entry. I however disagree and don't see any way possible it could be considered as such.
No problem, we just disagree.
Forcible entry is defined by Merriam-webster's Dictionary of Law as the unlawful taking of possession of real property by force or threats of force or unlawful entry into or onto another's property, especially when accompanied by force.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
OK so a couple things I've recently learned.
1. Don't enter someone else's property without permission(should be common sense)
2. If you plan to shoot an intruder, don't announce it to the world(also common sense)
3. Don't make an obvious attempt to get a bad guy in your home(once again common sense)
In both of these cases that I've seen where I think the shooter is going to jail, a common thing ties them...and that's a lack of basic common sense by all involved parties. I don't buy the "the garage was open and he was going to knock on the door" BS either. I'm assuming it's built like vritually every other house in America and the front door is located on the front of the house, that's where you should knock. Don't go into someone elses home(and if the garage is connected, then yes I consider that part of your home). It's not THAT complicated to stay alive, it's really not.
I'm a gun owner, and if someone was in my house, I would shoot them. I'm not going to wait untill they have a gun drawn on me or they charge me with a knife to find out their intent. However, I'm also not going to "bait" a bad guy into my house either. Plain stupidity all the way around.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
but how long should someone wait and what needs to take place before you find it justified for someone to defend themselves? I would also be interested in any and all posters on here to weigh in on this question!
Assuming this happened late at night and the family was in bed, I have a home security system, if that didn't scare them off, I would go to the top of the stairs, armed, yell that I was armed and that the police had been called.. from there I would wait at the top of the stairs.. From that point I have a distinct advantage to defend against anybody coming up to hurt my family.. I would not go downstairs to engage the person... for 2 reasons, the first being that I lose my advantage to defend myself and the second being that if the intruder was to overpower me, my family is upstairs pretty much defenseless. And my first and only objective in that situation is to protect my family, take the damn TV if you want it....
If they got past the security system and made it upstairs before I got to them, I would probably shoot them.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,195
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,195 |
Quote:
If they got past the security system and made it upstairs before I got to them, I would probably shoot them.
I think that's completely reasonable.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
Quote:
Assuming this happened late at night and the family was in bed, I have a home security system, if that didn't scare them off, I would go to the top of the stairs, armed, yell that I was armed and that the police had been called.. from there I would wait at the top of the stairs.. From that point I have a distinct advantage to defend against anybody coming up to hurt my family.. I would not go downstairs to engage the person... for 2 reasons, the first being that I lose my advantage to defend myself and the second being that if the intruder was to overpower me, my family is upstairs pretty much defenseless. And my first and only objective in that situation is to protect my family, take the damn TV if you want it....
If they got past the security system and made it upstairs before I got to them, I would probably shoot them.
Hopefully you don't have an arsonist break in.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,805
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,805 |
That's a very reasonable response.
Going out of your home into your garage to confront and kill someone who hasn't even attempted to go through the entry door from the garage into your house, after admittedly setting a trap in order to do that is something I find to be unreasonable.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
That's a very reasonable response.
Going out of your home into your garage to confront and kill someone who hasn't even attempted to go through the entry door from the garage into your house, after admittedly setting a trap in order to do that is something I find to be unreasonable.
Unreasonable is one adjective, premeditated is another.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Quote:
That's a very reasonable response.
Going out of your home into your garage to confront and kill someone who hasn't even attempted to go through the entry door from the garage into your house, after admittedly setting a trap in order to do that is something I find to be unreasonable.
Agreed.
But I have gone to my garage late at night with my gun to ensure I had closed the garage door. Why take the gun, well I woke up and checked on night around 1am, opened the garage/house door to find a the garage door open and a 6 foot gator curled up in front of the warm car engine.  Talk about soiling yourself.
Door to front of car = about 4 feet.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 478
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 478 |
Quote:
Quote:
That's a very reasonable response.
Going out of your home into your garage to confront and kill someone who hasn't even attempted to go through the entry door from the garage into your house, after admittedly setting a trap in order to do that is something I find to be unreasonable.
Agreed.
But I have gone to my garage late at night with my gun to ensure I had closed the garage door. Why take the gun, well I woke up and checked on night around 1am, opened the garage/house door to find a the garage door open and a 6 foot gator curled up in front of the warm car engine. Talk about soiling yourself.
Door to front of car = about 4 feet.
I have a couple of questions?
1. Did you shoot the gator?
2. Boots, wallet or breifcase?
3. What did it taste like?
Glad to hear that you are are safe.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,195
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,195 |
How about rattle snakes down there?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
I don't know how a gun will help you move across the country 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That's a very reasonable response.
Going out of your home into your garage to confront and kill someone who hasn't even attempted to go through the entry door from the garage into your house, after admittedly setting a trap in order to do that is something I find to be unreasonable.
Agreed.
But I have gone to my garage late at night with my gun to ensure I had closed the garage door. Why take the gun, well I woke up and checked on night around 1am, opened the garage/house door to find a the garage door open and a 6 foot gator curled up in front of the warm car engine. Talk about soiling yourself.
Door to front of car = about 4 feet.
I have a couple of questions?
1. Did you shoot the gator? No...Didn't have the gun that time, that's what changed my routine.
2. Boots, wallet or breifcase?
3. What did it taste like? I've had gator, but only in chili, so hard to say what it specifically tastes like, but the chili was good.
Glad to hear that you are are safe.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Quote:
How about rattle snakes down there?
I've seen them around, but I live on a wetlands preserve so they seldom have a reason to come up into the yard, there is plenty of food for them in the preserve.
Mostly see black snakes, corn snakes (Saw one yesterday curled up under a bush on the side yard), and pigmy rattlers in the yard. I've seen cottonmouths, but not in my neighborhood.
Additional wildlife that wanders up from the preserve are Florida bobcats, wild boars, gators, racoons, possums, armadillos, egrets, blue herons, owls, lot of hawks, and a few bald eagles fly over head.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 05/06/14 01:57 PM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 |
Quote:
Quote:
but how long should someone wait and what needs to take place before you find it justified for someone to defend themselves? I would also be interested in any and all posters on here to weigh in on this question!
Assuming this happened late at night and the family was in bed, I have a home security system, if that didn't scare them off, I would go to the top of the stairs, armed, yell that I was armed and that the police had been called.. from there I would wait at the top of the stairs.. From that point I have a distinct advantage to defend against anybody coming up to hurt my family.. I would not go downstairs to engage the person... for 2 reasons, the first being that I lose my advantage to defend myself and the second being that if the intruder was to overpower me, my family is upstairs pretty much defenseless. And my first and only objective in that situation is to protect my family, take the damn TV if you want it....
If they got past the security system and made it upstairs before I got to them, I would probably shoot them.
Reasonable thought process. You wouldn't be baiting anyone - you wouldn't go searching for a fight, but you would stand your ground if forced into a fight - in order to protect you and or your family.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 478
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 478 |
That makes sense Florida.
I hope you never meet another gator late in the night again then.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,195
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,195 |
My brother's by Gainesville. He lives in a pine forest and he told me about a lot of those critters too. It's bad enough you got them but you also got bugs that'll eat a small dog. He says it's better than shoveling snow.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 |
Quote:
My brother's by Gainesville. He lives in a pine forest and he told me about a lot of those critters too.
It's bad enough you got them but you also got bugs that'll eat a small dog.
He says it's better than shoveling snow.
Uh.........I'd rather shovel snow than have gators eat me. I'd rather shovel snow than have giant bugs take me away. I'd rather shovel snow than have venomous snakes.
Mosquito's..........and crayfish..........those are my 2 issues. And rabbits. None of them are going to kill me. Now, the cougar I saw last October - it might be an issue. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305 |
j/c
Couple different ways to look at this.
1 - Legal: Did the shooter do something "illegal"? The law is a mess in general and it gets even worse when amateur attorneys start referencing legislative debates on the meaning of specific words in the law. Truth is whether the shooter is guilty or not will vary depending on who is on the jury and who the judge is. Pointless to debate as it is very subjective and your opinion is shaped by your understanding of the law as opposed to what you actually think is "right".
2 - Moral: Still very subjective but at least we don't get bogged down by legalize garbage.... don't care what that law said. Question, is it ok to set a trap in your home hoping to have a criminal come in so that you can kill him? Is THAT a "right" thing to do?
Uh, no. It's not. Setting up a death trap is just plain wrong. Crazy wrong. Intent matters to me quite a bit here.
I have no problem with shooting someone that comes into my garage late at night uninvited. My family comes first and you will die if you put me in a position where I feel they are threatened. That is NO WHERE NEAR the same thing as TRYING to get someone to come in to my garage so that I get the JOY of shooting them. Wow. Just wow.
Again, legally... maybe he'll be found innocent. I mean, if OJ can get off then anyone can. The law is a joke. But morally it's just wrong.
I also agree these kinds of incidents do tend to lead to increased gun control because this shooter should not have been allowed to own a gun. Vigilante justice should not be promoted because it just leads to a countless number of morons holding YOUR life in their feeble hands.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964 |
There is a bridge going to Sanibel Island that you can ride your bicycle across. There was a time a few years ago when nobody did that, because everyone in the area, including police, sheriffs, judges, and attorneys, thought it was illegal. Until an old man who lived on Sanibel, and liked to ride his bicycle, realized this was not correct.
It took him about a year and a half, and several hearings, before he proved to the attorneys, judges, sheriffs, and police, that he was right and they were wrong. There was no law against riding a bicycle across that bridge, and never had been.
To paraphrase Captain Kirk - The law is not only for the professionals, the high and mighty. These words must be for Everyone, or they mean nothing.
That is why we should discuss them.
The meaning of the term "forcible" has been clarified for many. Far from a break-and-enter, it means even less than I thought it did. From various citations given here, coupled with "illegal", it means absolutely nothing at all and was added purely for cosmetic, and deceptive, reasons.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,805
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,805 |
What I believe has also been lost by some is the word "intent".
When your intention is to set a trap and your intention is to lay in wait to shoot someone, that too has legal ramifications.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305 |
Quote:
There is a bridge going to Sanibel Island that you can ride your bicycle across. There was a time a few years ago when nobody did that, because everyone in the area, including police, sheriffs, judges, and attorneys, thought it was illegal. Until an old man who lived on Sanibel, and liked to ride his bicycle, realized this was not correct.
It took him about a year and a half, and several hearings, before he proved to the attorneys, judges, sheriffs, and police, that he was right and they were wrong. There was no law against riding a bicycle across that bridge, and never had been.
To paraphrase Captain Kirk - The law is not only for the professionals, the high and mighty. These words must be for Everyone, or they mean nothing.
That is why we should discuss them.
The meaning of the term "forcible" has been clarified for many. Far from a break-and-enter, it means even less than I thought it did. From various citations given here, coupled with "illegal", it means absolutely nothing at all and was added purely for cosmetic, and deceptive, reasons.
The law hasn't been for "Everyone" in a long time. If it was then the word "forcible" would actually mean to use force because that would make sense. No.... the law is for professional liars who spend much of their time trying to create new words and/or change the meaning of existing words to suit their needs. A defendant that tries to defend himself has an idiot for a client.... their is a reason that is a common saying.
Will this shooter "get off"? Well, if he was filthy rich then I'd say heck ya he'll get off.... law is for everyone... lol.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428 |
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428 |
Regardless of the situation. How can family complain about their poor kids in this situation???
Where was the parents?
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
The law hasn't been for "Everyone" in a long time. If it was then the word "forcible" would actually mean to use force because that would make sense. No.... the law is for professional liars who spend much of their time trying to create new words and/or change the meaning of existing words to suit their needs.
The law does define a lot of words in very common sense terms, then special circumstances arise that challenge those definitions because they don't fit it exactly. It is impractical and virtually impossible to create a specific law for every possible condition, that's why they write laws in more general terms and give definitions that are just a little vague, to allow the legal process to make determinations based on the specifics of an individual case.
I'll use your concept of force as an example. You state that force should be easily defined...
If the door is locked and I have to kick it in or pick the lock, is that force?
If the door is closed but not locked and all I have to do is turn the handle, is that force?
If the door is open but the screen door is closed and all I have to do is pull it, is that force?
If both doors are open but there is a tricycle in the way and I have to lift it up and move it, is that force?
If the path is perfectly clear and I just walk in, is that force?
Funny thing is that when the law does try to get really prescriptive and say that "this" is illegal but "that" is not, then "that" happens and the public screams that the guy was set free on a "technicality"...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428 |
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
The details are important.
Consider the difference between strolling into an open garage where the homeowner lie in wait with a shotgun, shooting first and asking questions later.... vs an elderly homeowner confronting 2 burglars inside her home.
I'm sure you can see the difference in how those are viewed/prosecuted (or rather not prosecuted, in the latter case.)
Last edited by hasugopher; 05/07/14 02:49 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Quote:
There is a bridge going to Sanibel Island that you can ride your bicycle across. There was a time a few years ago when nobody did that, because everyone in the area, including police, sheriffs, judges, and attorneys, thought it was illegal.
The new bridge has a bike lane.
Of course it used to be $2 for a car to cross, now it's $6, so there is less traffic as well.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428 |
Agreed.... But the family of these kids speaking out against their deaths really lights a fire under me. Seriously, Seriously! In my opinion, if you're going to speak out against it in this situation then you better be prepared to be held accountable for the actions of your children!
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Even which you do, which you should, there is no reason to murder the kid.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,805
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,805 |
Grief does funny things to people. When you lose a loved one, you never really "want to feel" they are somehow responsible.
I understand what you are saying, but I had a very troubled brother who brought a lot of it on himself. My mom just never recognized it, even in his death.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428 |
Quote:
Even which you do, which you should, there is no reason to murder the kid.
What!
Could you repeat that in English!
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
If you do call out the kid's action, which you should, there's still no reason why this needed to be a murder.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Agreed.... But the family of these kids speaking out against their deaths really lights a fire under me. Seriously, Seriously! In my opinion, if you're going to speak out against it in this situation then you better be prepared to be held accountable for the actions of your children!
I would acknowledge, like they did, that they don't know why he was in the garage and he probably shouldn't have been there.. but the fact that he was shot and killed in the dark.. yea, I'd be outraged as well.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,493
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,493 |
I think/hope that you're splitting hairs here.
It is a shame that the two boys died. There's no doubt about that. There are those that would say something to the effect of "Justice is served" in terms of those two boys getting shot and killed, but I don't agree with that.
Them dying the way they did is not justice, it's simply a consequence of their poor choice(s). There are no winners in this situation.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,428
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,428 |
I am trying to think what I would do if my mom's home had been broken into with her at home.
I would probably get an alarm, and my brother might offer up a gun for protection. I would probably stay with her so she would feel safer, and with my back, I'm not going to risk geting into a physical confrontation with younger and healthier people.
If those kids had broken into my mom's home, with her at home, I probably would have shot too. I would regret having been forced to do so because of their actions, but if it came down to my mom's life, or the lives of those who broke into her house, I have to go with protecting my mom every time. I don't see how anyone says that they would make a different decision, if they are honest.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428 |
Quote:
If you do call out the kid's action, which you should, there's still no reason why this needed to be a murder.
you do realize that when someone is killed that murder doesn't always apply!
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428 |
Quote:
Quote:
Agreed.... But the family of these kids speaking out against their deaths really lights a fire under me. Seriously, Seriously! In my opinion, if you're going to speak out against it in this situation then you better be prepared to be held accountable for the actions of your children!
I would acknowledge, like they did, that they don't know why he was in the garage and he probably shouldn't have been there.. but the fact that he was shot and killed in the dark.. yea, I'd be outraged as well.
Talking different story. Read what I posted right above your comment...
Last edited by Moxdawg; 05/07/14 07:14 PM.
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,078
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,078 |
j/c
This article and thread have had me shaking my head sadly for days.
I've read all the angles to this story. The various ways in which the law could fall. I've kept up with every post... and there's only one thing I can take away with any conviction:
I don't give a crap about the 'Castle Law' defense. That's an intellectual exercise I'm not yet ready to deal with. I'm still too pissed off at the rawness of the story itself.
_________________________
It takes a very different human mind than mine to conceive of something like this. A very different wiring diagram than the ones I'm used to seeing.
I think about all the people I know really well- folks at my job, my family... and I can't imagine any of them lying in wait for someone- anyone (or everyone) with a lethal weapon... intent on using it without hesitation. I simply cannot wrap my brain around this.
This is something someone's neighbor did. It's not some scene from a Liam Neeson movie. He didn't care who came onto his property. He didn't care why. He made a conscious choice to use lethal force- with a baited trap in place.
That's what people do in the woods. It's called hunting.
I don't know or care if this guy has legal grounds to do something like this. I don't care what the courts say. I know how I feel about this person... and that's all I really care about, at present.
I'm glad I didn't know this person even in passing. I'm glad he was not my neighbor. I hope he isn't one of my neighbors. I hope that I and the people I care about don't ever know people like him.
A person who could do such a thing would be a toxic blight in any community I belong to. He shed human blood- to make a point. I simply can't have people like that in my life. I can't allow the risk that comes from having that kind of crazy anywhere near me and those I love.
Please don't preach to me. Please don't argue with me. Please don't play 'Devil's Advocate.' I'm just not in the mood for it. I just needed to get some real poison out of my system, and I feel as though I'm among friends here. Thanks for letting me vent.
*****
Ever since I was in my twenties, I've had this thing I do: I put myself on self-imposed news blackouts. Sometimes, they last 2-3 days. When it gets really bad, I'll even go a week-plus.
I think it's a defense mechanism in me... there's only so much of Man's heinous **** I can take. It's like a constant I.V. drip of poison into my soul.
I've done it almost without thinking for years. I'll hear that one 'camel's last straw' story, and say "That's it! That's the last one. I'm puttin' this (!) on lock-down."
This story has me very, very close. I can feel it coming....
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... German student Diren Dede killed
in 'castle doctrine' case
|
|
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
