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Frye is plety capable to be a competent QB. but you don't have to have a great QB to make it to the superbowl. Ask last years bears, trent dilfer, jeff hostetler, and doug williams.
a team can be succesful with a running game and defense.
He is capable ?
Show me how he is..there's a lot stacked against hm..and somethings he can has not improved on.
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Attack,. how many years does it take to evaluate a draft?
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You're not going to like my answer..in most cases it takes 2-3 years..
However we're talking about one player..not a group of players.
Anyone who's been around pro ball for a while and has watxhed the league since the 60's (like me) ahs seen a lot of the greats..and a lot of the goods and a lot of the busts..
Usually you see something in those first several years that tell whether a player has either GOT IT, GETTING IT or having problems..
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"Several" does not equate to a season and a half. I have watched the league almost as many years and seen the same things. Sorry, but like I said, it's too soon to decide on Frye.
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Tell me , what do you think the coaches and GM's opinion of Frye is?
Taking in account what transpired this offseason and now the fact they've looked at a ton of 1st and 2nd rd QB's?
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Well, you won't like the answer, to borrow your phrase  I think that they are still not sure what they have in Frye. "What went down" this offseason was that Green discussed as a trade option. Savage and RAC BOTH went to Frye and discussed that with him and told him that if Green was brought in it would be to compete, but more importantly to MENTOR Frye. Savage said publicly that the snag with Green for the Browns was that he wanted to be the starter. If they are convinced Frye can't get it done or grow, why would they consider that a deal breaker? As for interviewing the QBs, guess what, they also interviewed Calving Johnson. Does that mean they're opinion of Edwards has diminished? Have they lost faith in him?
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Your answer doesn't upset me one bit...
What went down" this offseason was that Green discussed as a trade option. Savage and RAC BOTH went to Frye and discussed that with him and told him that if Green was brought in it would be to compete, but more importantly to MENTOR Frye.
Interesting ...I never heard Frye's name specifically mentioned when that was said..I thought I could find the remark but I can't locate it..maybe someone will..hing hint..
As for interviewing the QBs, guess what, they also interviewed Calving Johnson. Does that mean they're opinion of Edwards has diminished? Have they lost faith in him?
Hehe..if Johnson is brought in..he's instantly the # 1 go to guy..not Edwards..
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Coach,, Forget about it,,, Attack has made up his mind,,,, FRYE SUCKS and anything that even indicates any thing positive about him is immediately scorned, untrue, unlikely or otherwise, impossible for him to digest..
I know where you got your info on the Green/Frye thing.. You don't have to prove anything.. it won't matter anyhow,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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In the end we will see who is right.
I hope it is you but am pretty positive it will be me.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Attack,. how many years does it take to evaluate a draft?
A draft is different than players. Some players you can evaluate in 5 minutes.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I have a serious question for you Attack, and Daim as well. Heck anyone. A lot of talk has us drafting Quinn. Here is my question. How is Quinn better or different than Frye? Both are leaders in the lockeroom and on the field. Both are very hard workers in the wt room and film dept. Both are very big guys. Both do well on short throws and show touch on longer ones. Both seem to have som accuracy problems. I see the big diffence as one went to ND and one went to Akron. I'd even say that Frye has a slight edge in mobility. I think if Frye had gone to a better school and didn't play behind a line that had him running for his life that he would not have been a 3rd rounder but a first or second.
Given he is starting to gain real experience how would Quinn be an upgrade over Charlie? Now please.....don't be harsh...I don't want to see a bunch of "charlie frye sucks and you are dumb if you can't see how much better he is than Quinn."
I'm actually wondering it, and am curious what you folks think.
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Quote:
I have a serious question for you Attack, and Daim as well. Heck anyone. A lot of talk has us drafting Quinn. Here is my question. How is Quinn better or different than Frye? Both are leaders in the lockeroom and on the field. Both are very hard workers in the wt room and film dept. Both are very big guys. Both do well on short throws and show touch on longer ones. Both seem to have som accuracy problems. I see the big diffence as one went to ND and one went to Akron. I'd even say that Frye has a slight edge in mobility. I think if Frye had gone to a better school and didn't play behind a line that had him running for his life that he would not have been a 3rd rounder but a first or second.
Given he is starting to gain real experience how would Quinn be an upgrade over Charlie? Now please.....don't be harsh...I don't want to see a bunch of "charlie frye sucks and you are dumb if you can't see how much better he is than Quinn."
I'm actually wondering it, and am curious what you folks think.
Easy (WARNING: Been drinking, some of these may be irrational arguments),
-Quinn doesn't get happy feet in the pocket.
-Quinn has a stronger arm.
-Quinn has the Charlie Weis seal of approval, sources say Jeff Davidson, a Weis disciple, told Savage that #9 wasn't good enough.
-#9 is AWFUL with his progressions. If Edwards isn't open he dumps it to Winslow. Anderson exposed this when he spread the ball around much more effectively.
-#9 stares down receivers.
-#9 even says he's more comfortable on the run, anytime you have a QB more comfortable on the run than in the pocket, you have a problem.
-It's been documented that #9 consistently drops back 5 steps on 3 step drop designed plays, and other mishaps similar to that. (I know Danielle wrote something about that back when Anderson first started).
-#9 isn't accurate on the short balls or deep balls.
-I could go on and say what I REALLY think of #9, but I'd probably be banned.
-the gap between college teams is much larger than NFL teams, so the lack of talent excuse can be used for Quinn moreso than #9 (although it STILL APPLIES, just on a lesser scale).
-Quinn was very effective his junior year with more options to throw to, even with a limited supporting cast around him his senior year, he still produced gaudy numbers.
-#9 has shown ZERO improvement from the first game he ever played. ZERO. looks like the same lost guy.
-I dislike #9 so much I will only refer to him as #9.
I know some of my statements are controversial, I don't care as I have a few beers in me. Bottom line is #9 is no blue chip prospect, even at his ceiling, Quinn has the potential to be a great one.
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I think Quinn is NOT a franchise QB.....for the Browns.....Simple...Did he win a national title ?...No....
He`s learned an NFL offense from Weis...Than he should have kicked butt on the collage ranks.....never won that big game....
Is Troy Smith a Franchise QB for the Browns....I think not...Smith had an incrediable support team.....Thats why he won the Trophy......Put any QB behind a poor line....And watch him change hie game...
It isn`t a QB.....issue....it`s protection....and many Qb`s can make the line look better....And visa versa.....
Put the greatest pitcher.on a team that can`t hit...or field a ball...How great will he be?
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Actually Ammo those were good points. I think Frye is good, but was asking for input! I'll join you in a few beers in a little bit as my day is almost over!
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I'll join you in a few beers in a little bit as my day is almost over!
almost over....glad I got started early for ya....hurry up and end your day...It`s dang near my bed time.... 
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Quote:
I think Quinn is NOT a franchise QB.....for the Browns.....Simple...Did he win a national title ?...No....
He`s learned an NFL offense from Weis...Than he should have kicked butt on the collage ranks.....never won that big game....
tom brady never won a national title at the college level
neither did peyton manning (and actually, people are saying the same things about quinn that they did about manning)
or john elway
or brett favre
football is a team game, not to mention defense wins championships
i said this in another thread, notre dame's defense was terrible...
for the guy asking how quinn is better than frye, quinn just has a better all around game, kiper said it best the other day, charlie frye was drafted in the third round for a reason, brady quinn will be drafted in the first round for a reason...
he has a better arm, a better presence on the field, better vision, he doesn't stare down receivers, he can sell the play action better, he'll stick around in the pocket more, and i believe he will become a better leader, a better field general...
a buddy of mine told me this about charlie frye "he seems like a great guy to have a few beers with, but he's no starting quarterback"
i know people point at the offensive line and their woes, but there were times where they were able to block, and charlie would either, scurry out of the pocket, or throw a pick, his 4th quarter numbers are horrendous...
brady quinn would be a massive upgrade... and while our offensive line is still a project in the works, he will make them better, as he will with kellen winslow and braylon edwards...
i don't see too much of a learning curve, i think brady will be very prepared...
he's a confident kid, and while playing qb in cleveland is a TOUGH job for anyone to do, i really think he can be the guy...
and i honestly think he beats out frye and DA and becomes the starter on day one when the season starts, and i believe we may get 2 or 3 wins more because of him out there...
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Reuben was obviously better....wait....
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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tom brady never won a national title at the college level
But he was 2-0 in Bowl Games and won a BCS Bowl
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neither did peyton manning
And he was 3-1 in Bowl Games
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kiper said it best the other day, charlie frye was drafted in the third round for a reason, brady quinn will be drafted in the first round for a reason...
Did Kiper also say Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round for a reason, Akili Smith was drafted in the 1st round for a reason
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he has a better arm,
I agree
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a better presence on the field
I disagree
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better vision
Like when he threw the ball directly to the DE in the MSU game. That was some great vision. 
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he doesn't stare down receivers
Yeah, I bet he doesn't.
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he can sell the play action better
If you say so
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he'll stick around in the pocket more,
If he does then he'll be in the hospital
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a buddy of mine told me this about charlie frye "he seems like a great guy to have a few beers with, but he's no starting quarterback"
Since your buddy said it then it must be true
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brady quinn would be a massive upgrade...
That's not what the NFL experts said on ESPN's Mock Draft today. They said Frye is better than Quinn and that it would be a mistake by the Browns to draft Quinn.
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i don't see too much of a learning curve, i think brady will be very prepared...
 So I guess if we draft him we will be 10-6 this year b/c he doesn't need anytime to develop. Where did you get that idea from? Was it b/c it took Quinn 3 years to get a winning record at ND?
Not much of a learning curve
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and i honestly think he beats out frye and DA and becomes the starter on day one when the season starts,
The NFL experts think you are crazy
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and i believe we may get 2 or 3 wins more because of him out there...
You do know that Quinn will not be going up against Army, Navy and Air Force anymore. He'll be playing in the NFL
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Damanshot, Do you read an entire reply before you internalize and spew? WTHAYTA? Did you read this; “Learning to play QB at any level takes time. The quality and stability of the team a QB plays on is a key part of his development. Charlie quite frankly has been in a crap storm from top to bottom since he came to Cleveland... These aren't excuses they are facts. Many a NFL QB has struggled for a few years and or been cut or traded and went on to become HOF'ers... So one never knows..." Is this what you call bashing??? How could you have read my reply and come to the conclusion I was bashing CF? What did I write that wasn't true? I didn't elaborate. Would you please explain how what I wrote is bashing? How about explaining what improvements you saw from Charlie last year? How is it you have come to feel so much better and more in the know than others here? You throw the he doesn’t get it stone and you gag on your reply to me and you're something special somehow??? Come down off of big horsy now…  In the future when you reply, step back, take a deep breath, splash some cold water on your face, get your facts and mind right and check your ego @ the door before you typing your usual drivel and verbal diarrhea...
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Brady was drafted EXACTLY where he should have been drafted...The guy weighed around 175 pounds!!!!!! He was slower than molases in a Cleveland Winter...His footwork looked like an elephant on a tightrope....The guy had leadership skills and a decent arm with good accuracy which is why the Pats took a flyer on him...
Brady became the Brady we know because he grew into his frame, worked incredibly hard on his footwork...and after seeing a miserable critique of himself in a notebook his position coach accidentally left in the film room.....Brady spent any and all hours studying film and actually learned how to read defenses....he lived, ate, and breathed football....the next preseason he showed dramatic improvement....and everyone knows what happened after that....
Anyone who thinks someone should have used a first round pick on Tom Brady is out of their minds... The Pats took a flyer in drafting Brady....They weren't drafting their "future"....They took a gamble where they didn't lose much if it did not work out...But no one in their right mind would say that they drafted Tom Brady to be the #1 guy. Frankly I think all they were hoping for was a decent backup....to there great fortune...they got a lot more than that.....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Boise, I have to admit that in this case I didn't read beyond that first line,, to me it smacked of more bashing and frankly, today, I'd had about all I could take of that garbage..
But I must apoligize to you. I didn't read it, but I should have,
Please accept my apology!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Boise, I have to admit that in this case I didn't read beyond that first line,, to me it smacked of more bashing and frankly, today, I'd had about all I could take of that garbage..
But I must apoligize to you. I didn't read it, but I should have,
So you was just posting to hear yourself type eh? 
#gmstrong
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Well, that's what I get out of it,, must be true! Hey, I never said I was immune did I
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
tom brady never won a national title at the college level
But he was 2-0 in Bowl Games and won a BCS Bowl
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neither did peyton manning
And he was 3-1 in Bowl Games
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kiper said it best the other day, charlie frye was drafted in the third round for a reason, brady quinn will be drafted in the first round for a reason...
Did Kiper also say Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round for a reason, Akili Smith was drafted in the 1st round for a reason
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he has a better arm,
I agree
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a better presence on the field
I disagree
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better vision
Like when he threw the ball directly to the DE in the MSU game. That was some great vision.
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he doesn't stare down receivers
Yeah, I bet he doesn't.
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he can sell the play action better
If you say so
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he'll stick around in the pocket more,
If he does then he'll be in the hospital
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a buddy of mine told me this about charlie frye "he seems like a great guy to have a few beers with, but he's no starting quarterback"
Since your buddy said it then it must be true
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brady quinn would be a massive upgrade...
That's not what the NFL experts said on ESPN's Mock Draft today. They said Frye is better than Quinn and that it would be a mistake by the Browns to draft Quinn.
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i don't see too much of a learning curve, i think brady will be very prepared...
So I guess if we draft him we will be 10-6 this year b/c he doesn't need anytime to develop. Where did you get that idea from? Was it b/c it took Quinn 3 years to get a winning record at ND?
Not much of a learning curve
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and i honestly think he beats out frye and DA and becomes the starter on day one when the season starts,
The NFL experts think you are crazy
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and i believe we may get 2 or 3 wins more because of him out there...
You do know that Quinn will not be going up against Army, Navy and Air Force anymore. He'll be playing in the NFL
yes, because everything said on espn turns out to be true
i never said quinn won't need time to develop, i just said i don't see much of a learning curve... there's a difference...
and i love how one play makes a qb, yeah, brady made a mistake against msu, he threw the ball right to a defensive player, but that's one play, every qb in the nfl makes plays they wish they could take back, you're really stretching here...
yes, notre dame plays a pretty soft schedule, but that doesn't mean they can't produce good players...
quinn has done quite well against some of the elite teams that they do face, he scored plenty of points to beat usc the last 2 years, but his defense decided not to show up... he had a bad game about michigan, but beat them the year before when nobody gave them a chance, it was in the big house too...
he's a good qb, no doubt...
oh, but wait, espn says...
please.
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Attack, Savage didn't mention Frye specifically in the presser. He told Frye himself that is why he was interested in bringing in Green. That wasn't mentioned in the presser, it was told to me. I don't write a column, so I don't have a link. Look back at the presser and you'll read that Savage said he talked to Frye, so you can take it or leave it.
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They're not controversial, but they are ignorant, biased, and incorrect, but hey, don't let the real facts get in the way of the beers giving you the liquid courage to spout false information.
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Attack, Savage didn't mention Frye specifically in the presser. He told Frye himself that is why he was interested in bringing in Green. That wasn't mentioned in the presser, it was told to me. I don't write a column, so I don't have a link. Look back at the presser and you'll read that Savage said he talked to Frye, so you can take it or leave it.
I know your contact..remember? Thats why I put the HINT HINT in there...because I knew his name wasn't mentioned in the presser..and you would specify it..
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Everyone makes mistakes... I am one of those who does quite often, in all things... Thanks, accepted and no worries. We are good to go, as usual...  Keep them coming... We already know what we're saying/writing... Most of the time... It's the listening, reading and learning that makes life awesome! I love the draft. Some of the Browns picks have twisted my worm and been outright lousy over the past 7 years... Lets hope that year 8 is great! Take care, hang in and enjoy!
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Quote:
quinn has done quite well against some of the elite teams that they do face,
Where did you come up with this? Make believe world?
Brady Quinn vs Elite Teams last year
50.0% completion percentage vs Michigan
48.9% completion percentage vs USC
42.9% completion percentage vs LSU
I can't believe you think he played well in those games.
Quinn will not be playing Air Force (73.7%), Army (73.3%) or Navy (72.0%) anymore.
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I'll raise a mug of ale to that! 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Attack, Savage didn't mention Frye specifically in the presser. He told Frye himself that is why he was interested in bringing in Green. That wasn't mentioned in the presser, it was told to me. I don't write a column, so I don't have a link. Look back at the presser and you'll read that Savage said he talked to Frye, so you can take it or leave it.
Here IS what was said : It was also posted in the Draft Forum under Savage press conference thread ( I think page 2)
DON'T FORGET FRYE--The discussion about drafting a quarterback might leave an impression that Charlie Frye has fallen out of favor, but Savage said that isn't the case.
"I think that impression is unfair to Charlie because, as I've said all the way through, we may end up with the same quarterbacks we had for the '06 season," he said. "I did talk to Charlie the other day and I told him that whether we get Trent Green or whether we draft a guy, it shouldn't impact him.
"I think he understands that. I think he knows what he has to do. All of our players understand it's a business and we have to do what's best for the team. I don't think Charlie Frye or Derek Anderson is going to go down without a fight, whether we get somebody else or not."
--------------------------------------------
We discussed what "shouldn't impact him" meant and it was interpreted as THIS year only or... It shouldn't impact what YOU do or how your preparing.
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Quote:
Everyone makes mistakes
Everyone except Joe Thomas, that is
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
quinn has done quite well against some of the elite teams that they do face,
Where did you come up with this? Make believe world?
Brady Quinn vs Elite Teams last year
50.0% completion percentage vs Michigan
48.9% completion percentage vs USC
42.9% completion percentage vs LSU
I can't believe you think he played well in those games.
Quinn will not be playing Air Force (73.7%), Army (73.3%) or Navy (72.0%) anymore.
those numbers don't mean much...
especially considering most of those games, they were being blown out, because of notre dame's embarassing defense...
it's really hard to win, at any level, when your defense is giving up 35-40 points, and you're going up against great defenses (usc, michigan, and lsu all have great defenses)
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
quinn has done quite well against some of the elite teams that they do face,
Where did you come up with this? Make believe world?
Brady Quinn vs Elite Teams last year
50.0% completion percentage vs Michigan
48.9% completion percentage vs USC
42.9% completion percentage vs LSU
I can't believe you think he played well in those games.
Quinn will not be playing Air Force (73.7%), Army (73.3%) or Navy (72.0%) anymore.
those numbers don't mean much...
especially considering most of those games, they were being blown out, because of notre dame's embarassing defense...
it's really hard to win, at any level, when your defense is giving up 35-40 points, and you're going up against great defenses (usc, michigan, and lsu all have great defenses)
Then why did you say he played well against elite teams?
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Crennel: Frye still QB, for now
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