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I keep reading we "need" to draft a QB at 4 no matter what this year because it is our biggest need. Plus the fact that QB is the most critical position on the team makes it an absolute necessity we use #4 to take the best QB available no matter if they may be rated the 15 or 20th the best player in this draft.
My question then is, if the QB prospects for 2014 are what they were last year, would you take any of the 3 with pick #4 this year? I realize this is tough to debate but my point is; why take a player you do not feel is worth a 1st round grade just because you need a QB.
If the Browns do not feel any of this year's QB picks are not worth a 1st round grade, then what is the point of any evaluations? Why have scouts and why even bother to rank the top 2 OTs, LBs, WR's etc if you "must take a QB"?
I realize many of you love Manziel or Bridgewater but I trust the scouts and front office people whose job it is to evaluate players. If they take a QB great, if not then we have other holes we need to fill. Just my opinion.
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Man, Manziel and Bridgewater are so much better than anyof them that it's crazy that we're talking about them in the same sentence.
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So you say. 2 years ago posters on here wanted us to tank so we could take Barckley #1. It is all perspective. My point is they were rated the best QBs last year. This year it is 3 guys who are rated all over the place by different evaluators, at least those in the media.
Only time will tell who is any good. We are all geniuses now, but you don't; really know if the big 3 this year will succeed. That is why I am open to all options and not locking in,.
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So you say. 2 years ago posters on here wanted us to tank so we could take Barckley #1.
If I recall, most of the Barkley hype was expressed the year prior to him declaring. His final year, I don't think many saw him as a #1 pick after his on field performance. His flaws were evident.
Either way, hindsight is always 20/20. That past group has no bearing on the success or failure of this current group.
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I always thought Weeden sucked. I didn't buy the BS that he would flourish in Norv's system.
However, last year's qbs were so bad, I said I would draft any of them.
I would put several qbs ahead of all the guys who came out last year. It ain't even close in my mind.
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I never wanted anything to do with Barkley. (or Barely as I called him, to the dismay of some)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I keep reading we "need" to draft a QB at 4 no matter what this year because it is our biggest need. Plus the fact that QB is the most critical position on the team makes it an absolute necessity we use #4 to take the best QB available no matter if they may be rated the 15 or 20th the best player in this draft.
There may be a few who say that but I think what most seem to be saying is a little different than that.
What I've seen said more than anything is that IF they have "their guy" that they feel is head and shoulders above the rest, they need to get "their guy". Now you can reword that any way you see fit but I do see a difference.
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My question then is, if the QB prospects for 2014 are what they were last year, would you take any of the 3 with pick #4 this year? I realize this is tough to debate but my point is; why take a player you do not feel is worth a 1st round grade just because you need a QB.
No I wouldn't. I don't believe those promoting any QB in this draft are simply promoting them "because they are a QB". I believe they are promoting them because they actually believe the QB they promote have franchise QB potential at a very high level. Whether that happens to be the case is left to debate, but there were a LOT of people that didn't believe in Weeden going into last season and I didn't see anyone pimping a high draft pick at QB last year.
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If the Browns do not feel any of this year's QB picks are not worth a 1st round grade, then what is the point of any evaluations? Why have scouts and why even bother to rank the top 2 OTs, LBs, WR's etc if you "must take a QB"?
Once again, it's not that anyone feels "you must take a QB", they feel you must take "THE QB". There is no greater player of importance than answering your franchise QB position. If you feel that player is there, you take him. From my understanding, we evaluated 11 QB's that are known. When all is said and done, you evaluate all players in the draft. If you don't feel "THE QB" is there. you won't be drafting one at #4.
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I realize many of you love Manziel or Bridgewater but I trust the scouts and front office people whose job it is to evaluate players. If they take a QB great, if not then we have other holes we need to fill. Just my opinion.
That's all fine and well. However, this FO has never ran a draft. This HC has never been an NFL HC. We've had FO after FO come in here and fail. So while I hope for the best, I'm tired of placing unearned "trust" in people who have not yet earned it only to be disappointed.
What I will do is try my best to understand and support their moves in this draft. I will hope that the players drafted develop and become great for our Browns. I will root for my team. I have hope. But trust and faith in the people running this team since 1999 has gotten me nothing but disappointment.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I get the trust thing, but what choice do we have? There is nothing we can do about it.
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This topic just proves to me not taking one last year was a blessing, this crop has so much more potential.
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What I've seen said more than anything is that IF they have "their guy" that they feel is head and shoulders above the rest, they need to get "their guy". Now you can reword that any way you see fit but I do see a difference.
That's kind of my stance, I want them to get their guy.. their #1 rated QB, if it's Carr and they can get him at #26, fine... I just know we need better, more consistent, QB play to win games so I understand those who are a little more desperate to draft a QB..
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No I wouldn't. I don't believe those promoting any QB in this draft are simply promoting them "because they are a QB". I believe they are promoting them because they actually believe the QB they promote have franchise QB potential at a very high level.
I disagree. I've seen enough people take the approach of, let's take the better player at #4 and take whichever of 3 QBs falls to us at #26.. doesn't sound like they have great conviction that any of them are the franchise guy.. as you said, IF you believe one is the franchise guy you take him at 4 and down roll the dice...
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However, this FO has never ran a draft. This HC has never been an NFL HC. We've had FO after FO come in here and fail. So while I hope for the best, I'm tired of placing unearned "trust" in people who have not yet earned it only to be disappointed.
When this draft is over you will either be happy or not based on your expectations.. it has nothing to do with "trust"..
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If Smith, Barkley & Manuel were this year's QB options
Late 2nd, early 3rd
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I disagree. I've seen enough people take the approach of, let's take the better player at #4 and take whichever of 3 QBs falls to us at #26.. doesn't sound like they have great conviction that any of them are the franchise guy.. as you said, IF you believe one is the franchise guy you take him at 4 and down roll the dice...
My impression was that we was addressing those promoting drafting a QB at #4. If I misunderstood his questions, then my bad.
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When this draft is over you will either be happy or not based on your expectations.. it has nothing to do with "trust"..
I believe that's true to some extent. I'm not set on them drafting "my guy", but I do have expectations somewhat as to what they should walk away from this draft with.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Nobody is saying take a QB for the sake of taking a QB. I think most, if not all Browns fans that want a QB feel like this group is a good group.
We could have had any of these QB's last year, nobody was screaming for them.
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Not talking specifically to you, but it seems like every year there's one guy available at a certain position that guys will scream that we should get. (This usually happens in the middle rounds) We won't pick him, and they'll scream how stupid we are for passing on him ... then sure enough, he goes through every other team all the way to our pick in the next round. And then they scream when we pass on him again. I just have a feeling that this is going to happen with one of the QBs. A certain group of people are going to scream when we pass on them at #4 ... and then they're going to slip, possibly to the second round. And I'm not hinting at a certain QB ... it could possibly happen to any of them.
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I believe that too. I may be one of them if Bridgewater lasts until the 2nd, we haven't drafted a QB and still pass on him. It may be that I really don't have any special following or desire to see the other 31 teams succeed that leads me not to care as much about what they do.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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At first I did not think people understood my point. The last half of the posts made me realize you may have. I know there are posters that have written, "we must address the QB at 4", and many times it was not with the added qualifier of "if the guy is good." Not all posters said this obviously, but some did and that is what my point was.
That was my point mostly, it makes no sense to draft a QB at 4 if you do not think he is one that will start for you for at least 5-8 years and perform well during that time.
Hoping a QB is good is not a great reason to draft him that high but all players & positions have a little hope involved because no one knows for sure.
Too prove I don't, one of my biggest errors was feeling Peyton Manning would bust.
Also to respond to the Matt Barkley thing I said 2 years ago because it the year before he left USC to enter the draft. 3/4 of the way though that college season many mocks had us taking him or G Smith in the top 5, Not me. Even some mocks after the season had us taking him high.
Anyway, maybe that is more clear, as I was not referring to all who think we take a QB at 4.
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For what it's worth, I think Carr and Manziel are franchise QB type guys.
The only way I'd pass on a QB is if they were both off the board, because I don't feel anyone else is worthy of that pick.
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For what it's worth, I think Carr and Manziel are franchise QB type guys.
The only way I'd pass on a QB is if they were both off the board, because I don't feel anyone else is worthy of that pick.
That's how I feel. I'm very high on Manziel. The other guys I can take or leave. It's such a hard position to project from college to pro...
My stance all along has been, take one of these QB's at 4 if you really like them. If you don't then stick with your board.
There are consequences to both sides. You take the QB and he sucks, it's on you. You pass on him and he's leading some other team to playoff wins? Well that's even worse if you ask me.
I want Johnny, but I'm just some fan who reads a lot about this kind of stuff and watches college football. I'm not qualified to truly evaluate these guys.
I want them to get their guy. That's all I care about. If it's Carr, then make sure you get him. Any of these guys. I can live with a front office swinging and missing, but I can't live with them being indecisive, or trying to get value by taking 29 year old QB's who can't read defenses with high picks...
Commit to something, and do it. That's all I want.
I love Brian Hoyer but I think it's psychotic to just bank on him for next year.
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For what it's worth, I think Carr and Manziel are franchise QB type guys.
Fair enough ... but the scary thing is, I can find an equal number of or more people that think both of those guys will be total busts. That's the scary part. And 3 months ago, everyone thought those guys would be second rounders. It's not even, "well they might not be great, but they'll be alright" ... it's they're going to be flat-out busts. That really scares me when you're talking about taking a guy #4.
My guess it that all four of these guys are rated in the 20's on most team's draftboards. Meaning, they all have a chance to be great, but it's going to depend a lot on things like: The guys around them, the time they get to learn the system, and the amount of confidence they can build before they get thrown to the wolves. QBs that weren't number one picks like Brees, Brady and Rivers all got these luxuries. We've got Brian Hoyer, so #3 is taken care of, we've got a new coaching staff ... so hopefully we can stick with them for at least 2 years ... that leaves the talent around them. Which is why I'm leaning towards Watkins at 4. I think any one of those QBs would be successful with that kind of offense built around them.
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I can live with a front office swinging and missing, but I can't live with them being indecisive, or trying to get value by taking 29 year old QB's who can't read defenses with high picks...
Why do people keep saying this? Taking Weeden was the FO swinging and missing! He was NOT a value pick. This was the definition of the FO taking their guy well before he should of gone, just so they could get "their guy".
They made a half-a attempt to get RGIII, before Washington trumped the Brown's joke offer with what the Rams were asking for. They could of drafted Tannehill at 4, because they knew he was going top 10 ... and didn't. That left Weeden. He was the 4th QB taken, and that's who they took ... much, much higher than he should of gone. That's what everybody is advocating here with the #4 pick. Just throwing caution to the wind, and draft "their guy"
"Getting value" would of been waiting around until the third round and getting Russel Wilson or Nick Foles.
By the way ... they traded picks to move up one spot just to be positive they got "their guy" in Trent Richardson ... That whole draft wreaked of "getting their guy" over drafting BPA, and we know how well that turned out.
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If Smith, Barkley & Manuel were this year's QB options
We'd trade for Mallet.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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They tried to stretch their dollar or pick, if you may, by drafting him at 22...
Why not take him with the Richardson pick? You know that you needed a QB? Why not Tannehill?
I really think they tried to cut corners. I don't think the majority of the front office was behind the pick of Weeden...
That's why I see it as a value pick, and you just can't do that at QB.
If you like a guy, you take him immediately. It doesn't apply when you start getting to the middle and late rounds, and you're just hoping to pick the candy bar with the golden ticket... 2 different things.
That pick was one of the worst draft picks ever. It really was.
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They tried to stretch their dollar or pick, if you may, by drafting him at 22...
Why not take him with the Richardson pick? You know that you needed a QB? Why not Tannehill?
Because they didn't want Tannehill. They wanted Weeds. More specifically, they wanted Weeds AND Richardson.
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I really think they tried to cut corners. I don't think the majority of the front office was behind the pick of Weeden...
How is it cutting corners though? They WANTED Richardson and the apparently wanted Weeden too, because they over-drafted the hell out of them. Had a bunch of QBs gone in front of Weeden, and they reluctantly picked him ... I could see your point. But they passed on paying asking price for RGIII, they passed on taking Tannehill a few slots above where he should go, and they took Weeden a good ROUND ahead of where he should of gone, when no other QBs went off the board in front of him.
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That's why I see it as a value pick, and you just can't do that at QB.
A value pick is waiting to see if he falls into the 3rd round when he's slotted as a second rounder and he doesn't ... so you end up taking a 3rd round rated QB like Russell Wilson instead. "Getting your guy" is drafting your guy a good pick or two ahead of where he should of gone.
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If you like a guy, you take him immediately. It doesn't apply when you start getting to the middle and late rounds, and you're just hoping to pick the candy bar with the golden ticket... 2 different things.
Ah, so like Tim Tebow then. 
Sorry, but there's still a certain element of "drafting a guy where he's slotted to go" ... Are you saying if the Browns think that someone like Aaron Murray is the best QB prospect in the draft, then we should just get him at #4? Should we trade in a bunch of picks and move up to #1 to get him? No, cause that would be plain stupid. I can see reaching for him with the 26th or 2nd round pick ... but that's essentially what we did with Weeden.
At any rate, there is no "the guy" in this draft ... otherwise the Texans would be taking him #1, or we would be trading in three number ones to move up and get him.
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Wasn't there a story about how the Browns panicked and took Weeden because they thought Kendall Wright was going to be there?
That's being indecisive. When you are taking a QB in the first two rounds, I think you have really gotta love the guy. Did the Browns really love Weeden?
I really think they didn't mind Tannehill but were enamored at the thought of Richardson + Weeden over Tannehill + some other guy.
That to me is shooting for value..
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For what it's worth, I think Carr and Manziel are franchise QB type guys.
Fair enough ... but the scary thing is, I can find an equal number of or more people that think both of those guys will be total busts
That's gonna be with any QB prospect.
Unless you luck out and you're picking #1 with an Andrew Luck there.
Aaron Rodgers was a system QB
Cam Newton ran too much
Ben Rothlisberger didn't play the best competition
Drew Brees was too short
Peyton Manning had happy feet
etc.
Personally, I like Carr and Manziel -- But I just want us to take OUR guy. If we have a QB that's head and shoulders above the rest on our board and he's available -- Take him.
I'm not a Bortles fan, but if our FO decides Bortles is head and shoulders above the rest -- Take him at 4, and forget about it.
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I don't want us to draft Carr. But if we do, I want us to draft Carr at 4.
Because I want to know that these guys believe in him enough, to take him there...
Edit: Also I want (For IMO the first time) an honest to god QB competition. I don't care who needs more reps going into the season, I want to know who's the better guy.. And he starts...
Last edited by ThatGuy; 05/07/14 03:09 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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"there is no Andrew Luck in this draft" has been the most over-used phrase in this offseason... Used by people who don't want a QB...
Probably the same people who make excuses for the QB's we do have because they aren't on the field with 10 pro bowlers...
Some of the best QB's, guys who have won championships were not can't miss, once in 3 decades type prospects... A lot of these guys were high picks, but were not consensus overall number 1 picks.
All of these quarterbacks have question marks, weaknesses, and other negative points, and guess what? Next year, when you get your 2015 QB class, those guys will too! People are talking about folding it up for Jameis Winston, but you don't think that guy has his own bag of issues?
The one thing I love about Browns fans is there is always next year's draft... We can load up with picks for next year, so that we can then go and load up for the year after that...
I've heard people saying we should try and trade back to see if we can get another 3rd rounder because of how deep this draft is, YOU ALREADY HAVE AN EXTRA THIRD ROUNDER HOW MANY PICKS DO YOU WANT????
There really needs to be a Sports Onion if there already isn't one. Here's your first headline: "Cleveland Browns Secure Every Single Pick in the 2019 NFL Draft"
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But I'm totally sure theres a middleschooler some where that's TOTALLY ganna be the next Andrew Luck... And THEN we can trade some of the 2019 picks for 2020! We're set for life! 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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That's being indecisive. When you are taking a QB in the first two rounds, I think you have really gotta love the guy. Did the Browns really love Weeden?
Enough to throw caution to the wind, and bump up their whole draft rankings a full round to take him ... yeah.
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I really think they didn't mind Tannehill but were enamored at the thought of Richardson + Weeden over Tannehill + some other guy.
That to me is shooting for value..
I agree with you that they may have been "shooting" for value ... but when Wright didn't fall to them, they panicked and went with "just get your guy". Had they just stuck to their guns, they probably could of waited it out for Weeden in the 2nd round. If not, they could of had Wilson or Foles in the 3rd (where they were slotted or lower) or even Kirk Cousins in the 4th. Heck the Redskins even picked him in the 4th after getting RGIII saying, "We can't believe you fell this far".
If he's not "your guy" ... then there's no sense burning high picks just to get him. Like the original poster is trying to say ... if you think all these guys are projects, then what's the point of taking them at 4?
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There really needs to be a Sports Onion if there already isn't one. Here's your first headline: "Cleveland Browns Secure Every Single Pick in the 2019 NFL Draft"
Why has this not been a Facebook post yet? 
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Personally, I like Carr and Manziel -- But I just want us to take OUR guy. If we have a QB that's head and shoulders above the rest on our board and he's available -- Take him.
I'm not a Bortles fan, but if our FO decides Bortles is head and shoulders above the rest -- Take him at 4, and forget about it.
And I'm in complete agreement with that. I'm just hoping we have a consensus "that guy". If they rank all 4 of these guys at the 20-30th best prospects in the draft (like many of these draft experts are doing) ... then I'm hoping we DON'T say, "well he's the best of this pack of average QBs, and we really need a QB ... so let's just go with that".
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Aaron Rodgers was a system QB
Cam Newton ran too much
Ben Rothlisberger didn't play the best competition
Drew Brees was too short
Peyton Manning had happy feet
They're all going to have flaws ... but I don't remember many of those guys having more than a few draft experts saying, "well he should be a mid-round pick" or mock drafts fluctuating an entire round within 3 months or the season ending. For the most part, they were considered top 10 picks ... and in Brees and Rodgers case ... fell a lot further than where people thought they would go.
In fact, I'm having trouble remembering the last time a team took a QB a lot higher than where he was slotted and he turned out to be a star. If anything, guys that drop in the draft and get taken as value picks seem to have many more instances of the pick becoming a star ... probably in part because they aren't heaped with expectations.
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There really needs to be a Sports Onion if there already isn't one. Here's your first headline: "Cleveland Browns Secure Every Single Pick in the 2019 NFL Draft"
Why has this not been a Facebook post yet?
Because it would turn into a 300+ comment facebook post that will sit at the top of my newsfeed for another week..
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But I'm totally sure theres a middleschooler some where that's TOTALLY ganna be the next Andrew Luck...
And THEN we can trade some of the 2019 picks for 2020! We're set for life!
my son says he wants to be the QB of the Browns. He's in 6th grade and he plays QB he will be the class of 2020 for high school lol
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Quote:
For what it's worth, I think Carr and Manziel are franchise QB type guys.
The only way I'd pass on a QB is if they were both off the board, because I don't feel anyone else is worthy of that pick.
Can you please explain why Carr is a franchise QB? Tell me why he is better than Bridgewater and Bortles. Thanks.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
vastly superior arm, better mechanics, quicker release, can make throws neither of the other two could make in madden, then add in experience, leadership and maturity and apparently he called 90% of the plays as well as the fact he did play in a traditional pro system before they went to this short spread.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 If Smith, Barkley & Manuel
were this year's QB options
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