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I have the feeling that the media will be outraged if Manziel isn't our starter early on.
May the best man win.., and I honestly don't care who it is.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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J/C
Manziel (even though im not a big fan of the pick, I would have gambled and traded up for Bortles, even if it did cost 2 1sts....6'5 252 pounds...he possibly is the next Big Ben)
You start Manziel day one...we traded up to get him...we took him in the 1st...you start him....the best place for him to learn is out on the field playing.
This isn't the expansion Browns anymore...we have the best receiver in Pro Football (Josh Gordon) Megatron is up there too, but its really close....we have one of the best TE in football in Jordan Cameron....we have a Top 9 Defense, we added Ben Tate to the RB....this team actually has some talent.
Stop babyhing QB...put Johnny in their Day One and see what he can do....ANY player drafted in the Top 25 should be able to start day one...if they can't, then you reached and shouldn't have taken him to begin with.
im curious to see JFB play.....sitting him on the bench is just going to cause problems...the minute Hoyer makes a mistake I can hear the stadium now....put JFB day one and go with him...you traded up for him, he is obviously "There guy" or they would not have drafted him and go with it.
I like Hoyer, in fact i was fine with no taking a QB this year and going with Hoyer, obviously the FO don't believe Hoyer is the longterm guy or else they would not have traded up to get Johnny.
The future is now...you start JFB week 1 and he should now be attached to Shanahan's hip with a lessh doing nothing but absorbing the playbook.
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You start Manziel day one...we traded up to get him...we took him in the 1st...you start him....the best place for him to learn is out on the field playing.
BAD idea. Perhaps I cannot emphasize the word BAD strongly enough.
Sadly, Manziel is likely to start at some point in 2014, but to march him straight out there considering the game he played in college is a sure-fire way to, at best, set his development back a couple of years, and at worst, ruin him permanently.
BAD idea.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Man, I invite everyone of you to listen to the post draft PC on the homepage.
Is it me or does Farmer sound like a GM that didn't really make the Manziel pick? When asked when it was decided that he was their QB, he said "in the middle of the draft, probably", I mean, REALLY?...and he didn't directly say that he had Manziel over Teddy when asked and he constantly talked about "taking that chance". Sure doesn't sound like a GM that is enamored with his QB selection. Normally they gush over "their guy", but Farmer honestly sounded more bitter than anythin, probably knowing that his legacy is now tied to Manziel. After watching this my feeling is telling me that it was NOT his choice to pick him up....go watch the thing
I think Haslam pulled his you know what out on that one...it has all the marks of it, as the moves do not add up.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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~ Legend
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Yes. Though I don't think Jerry Jones thought that if he sat Tony Romo for a few years he'd be a franchise QB. Probably just thought of him as a camp arm. I'd say the same thing with Tom Brady and the Pats. They just got lucky with them.
I don't get the points about Quinn. Didn't he sit for 1.5 seasons? How long do you think it takes to get into the game?
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Man, I invite everyone of you to listen to the post draft PC on the homepage.
Is it me or does Farmer sound like a GM that didn't really make the Manziel pick? When asked when it was decided that he was their QB, he said "in the middle of the draft, probably", I mean, REALLY?...and he didn't directly say that he had Manziel over Teddy when asked and he constantly talked about "taking that chance". Sure doesn't sound like a GM that is enamored with his QB selection. Normally they gush over "their guy", but Farmer honestly sounded more bitter than anythin, probably knowing that his legacy is now tied to Manziel. After watching this my feeling is telling me that it was NOT his choice to pick him up....go watch the thing
I think Haslam pulled his you know what out on that one...it has all the marks of it, as the moves do not add up.
In the first 10 seconds of the presser he says "We knew we were going to bring him in at some point given the opportunity".
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I didn't want Johnny at #4 but @22 it's a good value. Just like Minny traded back up to get Teddy in the 1st, you now are taking a shot that they may be a Franchise QB and if they are then you have them locked up on a Rookie contract for 5 years.
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Legend
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Completely agree with Toad here ... you do NOT start QBs on Day One unless they are the first pick overall. Guys taken in the last half of the first or in the second round need to sit as long as they can until they get the system they are playing in, work out any issues they might have and get used to the speed of the NFL game.
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Legend
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Sal Palentonio is reporting that Haslam, told him a homeless man who recognized him, told him to pick Manziel. And said "He knew then, that he had to get Manziel."
SMH..... that is why owners are suppose to own not draft.
....And you believe this story why?
I love that ESPN likes to associate Cleveland with homeless people.. I have no doubts that it probably happened, but to make it seem like that's the reason he was selected it pretty dumb...
Read some good stuff yesterday on twitter. I don't know how serious Dallas ever was about Manziel. I think they wanted him, but there was a tweet from one of the NFL reporters that said Dallas is really stuck with Romo. He's can't be cut or traded because of the contract. Too much dead money, and the Cowboys have holes all over the place. Martin is a really good player, but I am a bit surprised they didn't draft defense...
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Completely agree with Toad here ... you do NOT start QBs on Day One unless they are the first pick overall. Guys taken in the last half of the first or in the second round need to sit as long as they can until they get the system they are playing in, work out any issues they might have and get used to the speed of the NFL game.
Taking what you said, Excel, and expanding on it, this is a draft full of developmental QB's, not NFL-ready starters.
Manziel is an amazing talent and has an uncanny feel for the game, but he's exceedingly raw and needs to learn slowly, not be thrown to the wolves. He of all the top-tiered QB's in this class needs the most polishing.
The guy who is most likely ready to step in is Bridgewater, and even he's going to need a little time to learn. Manziel needs to start the year on the bench.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Man, I invite everyone of you to listen to the post draft PC on the homepage.
Is it me or does Farmer sound like a GM that didn't really make the Manziel pick? When asked when it was decided that he was their QB, he said "in the middle of the draft, probably", I mean, REALLY?...and he didn't directly say that he had Manziel over Teddy when asked and he constantly talked about "taking that chance". Sure doesn't sound like a GM that is enamored with his QB selection. Normally they gush over "their guy", but Farmer honestly sounded more bitter than anythin, probably knowing that his legacy is now tied to Manziel. After watching this my feeling is telling me that it was NOT his choice to pick him up....go watch the thing
I think Haslam pulled his you know what out on that one...it has all the marks of it, as the moves do not add up.
In the first 10 seconds of the presser he says "We knew we were going to bring him in at some point given the opportunity".
That's rhetorical if you think about it. He followed tha up with "at the middle of the draft" when asked "when did the Browns decide to bring in Manziel?"....do you really "decide" that in the middle of the heat?
It also sounded as if their target at 4 was gone already when asked about the trade, I guess Bortles or Robinson...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I hope you positive guys are right. I Pray I'm wrong. I wasn't wrong about McCoy & Brady. I was Neutral but hopeful about Weeden. I like to think I have a decent amateur eye for the QB position. I'm actually usually right. With the drafts I've watched over the years I'd say I've been pretty close 60-70% of the time. Sometimes I'm spectacularly wrong. I hope this is one of those situations.
Smallest QB in the NFL who's skittish in the pocket, quick to run, slow to read with poor passing mechanics, doesn't see the field well, regularly misses opportunities and the best option with where to put the ball. Isn't particularly strong or accurate deep and whether he is or isn't injury prone is irrelevant.. EVERY QB who opts to run it himself beyond the LOS on a regular basis in the NFL is eventually going to be "injury prone". But he's got Moxy! He's got leadership skills. Whatever. We'll see what his moxy really means when LAID OUT by an NFL LB or DT who will catch him, probably from behind. The position players he used to easily outrun in college are going catch him and pile drive him in the pros. At some point he's going to learn that running is last resort and we'll see what kind of a real NFL QB we actually have. The money of a QB is made in the pocket and is earned in his brain. Quick, sound decisions, efficient delivery and the ability to master a complex system and still be deceptive.
I've watched a lot of Johnny Football. He's fun to watch. He's an electrifying COLLEGE QB. I realize we're trying to duplicate Russel Wilson and sure, what the heck. But Russel is a better pure pocket passer than Johnny. By a mile at this point. He makes quick decisions, has decent mechanics and doesn't make many opportunity mistakes. I don't know, I just don't see the ceiling going up for this kid.
That's it. I've said my piece and I'm done. Sorry to crap in your eye ball.
/rant.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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I think by taking him later there will not be that OUT CRY of start Johnny. Obviously if Hoyer struggles - we will see JM earlier than we expected to. But still just sitting a couple of games and seeing the way we implement a game plan prepare during the week - class room stuff breaking down our game their game. He will be way ahead than if he starts from game one.
Exactly.
Did the NFL have eyes on us taking a QB that would bring us back to life? Ergo the positioning of our Bye Week?
Laugh. The Manziel era will begin Week 5 after the bye. October 10 @ Tennesee followed at home with Pitt.
Bet my last dollar on it.
He's dead nuts accurate and the most accurate in the draft beyond 20 yards. Like 55% accurate. He's the most mobil QB around. And he's in a superb offense for him.
This is growing on me BIGTIME!
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You start Manziel day one...we traded up to get him...we took him in the 1st...you start him....the best place for him to learn is out on the field playing.
BAD idea. Perhaps I cannot emphasize the word BAD strongly enough.
Sadly, Manziel is likely to start at some point in 2014, but to march him straight out there considering the game he played in college is a sure-fire way to, at best, set his development back a couple of years, and at worst, ruin him permanently.
BAD idea.
Totally agree. If he has any hope at all we'll let him ripen on the vine as loooooong as possible. More than anything else at this point I want Hoyer to thrive. For both players and our sake. I hope the rest of the draft is dedicated to supporting Hoyer's success. OL, WR, RB. Bring 'em!
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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We run a WCO, not sure we throw it 20+ so often. Accuracy and mobility is more important and he has at least the latter going for him.
Another problem with Johnny is that it downgrades our OL ability. What's the value of a pocket, if every 2nd play becomes a circus play?
And I think you're fooling yoursleves if you think the mob and his sect-like following will be ok with having him sit, let alone his ego. But even if he himself toes the company line being the backup, there will be distraction....it was guaranteed the moment we picked him. That's part of the package "he brings", like it or not
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Sal Palentonio is reporting that Haslam, told him a homeless man who recognized him, told him to pick Manziel. And said "He knew then, that he had to get Manziel."
SMH..... that is why owners are suppose to own not draft.
....And you believe this story why?
I love that ESPN likes to associate Cleveland with homeless people.. I have no doubts that it probably happened, but to make it seem like that's the reason he was selected it pretty dumb....
I don't think it was the reason, either, but Haslam invited the notion.
I'm starting to think we have one of the dumber owners in the league. I just hope he doesn't interject himself too often.
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~ Legend
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I think it says a lot what people think about us. No one would say, BB got visited from the ghost of Paul Brown telling him to draft Easley...
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j/c...
Do people really think we drafted JFF because a homeless guy said to?
I believe a homeless guy told him that, but I'm pretty sure Haslam was joking about that being why we took him.
Some of you guys are unreal...
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Legend
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That's rhetorical if you think about it. He followed tha up with "at the middle of the draft" when asked "when did the Browns decide to bring in Manziel?"....do you really "decide" that in the middle of the heat?
It also sounded as if their target at 4 was gone already when asked about the trade, I guess Bortles or Robinson...
It could mean a lot of things.. for example, it could mean that they like Manziel and wanted to bring him in and at some point in the middle of the draft they realized he was going to fall far enough to make it happen. Just because the draft is over, (or at least the first round) I still don't expect these guys to be totally honest in what they were thinking or planning..
yebat' Putin
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~ Legend
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People believe anything they hear on the TV. I bet money that people would think aliens are real if Anderson Cooper started showing X-Files' clips on his show.
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For me I wasn't at all sure about JM. But, I look at us taking the best cb in the draft in Gilbert, having 8 more pics and with the FA's will took in and I have to believe this could be something special. Let him learn behind Hoyer. Shanahan will teach him and as JM is a fast learner he will pick up the game from Hoyer who learned from Brady. I think with Tate, our receivers and an oline like ours, JM will not be asked to win the game like he had to in college. He will have a rather good football team that will have an excellent D and a good O and he can learn the pocket and become the QB we have needed for a long time. Unlike Couch, he has a team behind him. All TC had was hasbeens and rookies and bad drafts to support him. I believe JM has a much better chance to succeed than TC and I do believe our running game will develop to help him. We will pick up another oline, hopefully FILO hahaha,never remember his name and a will lb'er and we will be set. Burlison will help JM and Hoyer and maybe we get lucky with a draft wr in the later rounds. I like this season to be a defining season for my Browns.
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Do people really think we drafted JFF because a homeless guy said to?
Hope not. It was intended to be a cute story from Haslam on how passionate Browns fans are when even a homeless guy recognizes him and gives him his draft opinion.. and it is being turned into a joke.. whatever.
I'm more concerned about what Jimmy did next, hopefully he passed the guy a $20 or something. 
yebat' Putin
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JC.
What are the chances the Browns pick another QB as well?
Carr, McCarron, Mettenburger, Murray, Garropolo?
Not crazy about the JM pick.
But none of the QBs seperate themselves by leaps and bounds.
I hope all turns out well. And JM is kept out of the fire for a good while.
He just reminds me of a squirrel caught in the middle of the road.
Good luck kid. You will need it here.
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You start Manziel day one...we traded up to get him...we took him in the 1st...you start him....the best place for him to learn is out on the field playing.
You start him if he wins the job.. and ONLY if he wins the job..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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They did stop him this year. They were 4 tds down in the fourth when Manziel led a comeback with 2tds against 2nd/3rd stringers. then added another td late against the 1st team that had been sitting and brought back into the game. check the timeline of the game. Throwing tds against benchwarmers down 4tds in the 4th is nothing to brag about
LOL.. at no point in the game was Alabama up 4 TDs.. they did have a 3 TD lead going into the 4th quarter, less than 2 minutes in A&M made that a 2 TD lead.. and if you think Alabama (and Nick Saban) is pulling their starters with a 3 TD lead at the beginning of the 4th quarter against the #6 team in the country, I've got a bridge to sell you.
The fact is that Texas A&Ms defense could barely slow down Alabama's offense, A&M had to score on almost every possession just to keep up. Manziel did throw 2 pretty costly interceptions in the game. It was not a perfect game by any stretch but there is no need to just make stuff up.. Saban pulled his starters.. Ha.. Saban doesn't pull his starters with a 5 TD lead over Western Kentucky, let alone a 3 TD lead early in the 4th against the #6 team in the country. Be real man.
I watched the game. Ok I'll give you that it wasnt a 4td lead, but a 3 td lead. 42-21 with Alabama stuffing Manziel all game. At the begining of the 4th Alabama did have majority of its defensive starters sitting and went into full run clock mode. The game was out of reach and defense in prevent. After they scored the 2nd td .... alabama did stop subbing .
But my main point is that This is not the SEC. And defenses in the SEC are not as good as they usually are except with LSU and Alabama. Manziel needs to change his style of play to be successful in the NFL.
So its wait and see. Like I said all along, there is no better example of Boom or Bust then Johnny Football
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What are the chances the Browns pick another QB as well?
Carr, McCarron, Mettenburger, Murray, Garropolo?
I think the odds are decent but not anybody from that list. I think it would be somebody even lower, maybe a Conner Shaw.
yebat' Putin
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What are the chances the Browns pick another QB as well?
Carr, McCarron, Mettenburger, Murray, Garropolo?
I think the odds are decent but not anybody from that list. I think it would be somebody even lower, maybe a Conner Shaw.
I think it is almost certain that we take another qb in the later rounds. I would still take McCarron, Murray, and lets not forget about Kenny Guiton. I want nothing to do with Mettenburger.
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We might pick up a UDFA, but I can't imagine us drafting another QB - we now have 5 on the roster, including a starter that the new regime loves, and then three others who have been hand picked by the regime in the last three weeks.
We will have a competition between Hoyer and Manziel for the starting job, the other will be the backup. Then Young/Thigpen/Tanney will compete for QB3.
That's plenty of guys to throw balls in training camp.
~Lyuokdea
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You start Manziel day one...we traded up to get him...we took him in the 1st...you start him....the best place for him to learn is out on the field playing.
You start him if he wins the job.. and ONLY if he wins the job..
Thats fair enough and how it should be. I have no doubt that JFB will beat out Hoyer in camp because he has more talent plain and simple.
those saying we should "sit him" and ":baby him" are being unreasonable....this kid is going to make big bucks, he was picked in the Top 25, players picked in the Top 25 are meant to be guys that come in and contribute day one and start....if that player can't do that, then it was a reach and he shouldn't have been taken....
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Completely agree with Toad here ... you do NOT start QBs on Day One unless they are the first pick overall. Guys taken in the last half of the first or in the second round need to sit as long as they can until they get the system they are playing in, work out any issues they might have and get used to the speed of the NFL game.
Thats unreasonable...Rivers, Eli, even Drew Brees started year one....Manziel was a top 25 pick....if he beats out Hoyer in camp (which should be no problem because Manziel is more talented) he should start plain and simple.
its not going to "hurt his development" or "kill his confidence"...give me a break...this kid is a "Man" a man that will be making "big bucks" he wins in camp he starts....no way Hoyer (as much as i love the guy) beats out Manziel on a pure talent level..no way...and if you want to win in the NFL you play your most talented players.
the best place for him to learn is on the field playing...is JFB going to make some mistakes? sure he will...but he can't learn from those mistakes unless he makes them himself...its one thing for Hoyer to tell him not to do something...its a whole different matter to make the mistake and then learn from it.
I could see wasting two years (one on the bench, and one playing) on a guy taken in the 2nd or 3rd rds, but on a guy taken in the Top 25? no way....if your Top 25 Materiel, your good enough to play now else your not as good as the hype says you are.
I think JFB is a great talent, but we won't know for sure until he plays and the sooner he plays the better....i would rather him take his lumps now rather then wasting 2 years on developing him before you even hope for a winning season...im tired of the next year mentality...im not willing to tank two seasons (JFB sitting this year, and making rookie mistakes next year)...I would rather he learn on the field this year so we can really push for something next year...
Besides..who knows...JFB just may push us right into the playoffs this year...you just won't know till you play him.
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Rivers, Eli, even Drew Brees started year one
Phillip Rivers sat a year. He only played in 2 games with 8 pass attempts his rookie year.
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Rivers, Eli, even Drew Brees started year one
Phillip Rivers sat a year. He only played in 2 games with 8 pass attempts his rookie year.
Correction he sat two years. 2 games with 22 pass attempts his sophomore year.
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You start Manziel day one...we traded up to get him...we took him in the 1st...you start him....the best place for him to learn is out on the field playing.
You start him if he wins the job.. and ONLY if he wins the job..
Thats fair enough and how it should be. I have no doubt that JFB will beat out Hoyer in camp because he has more talent plain and simple.
those saying we should "sit him" and ":baby him" are being unreasonable....this kid is going to make big bucks, he was picked in the Top 25, players picked in the Top 25 are meant to be guys that come in and contribute day one and start....if that player can't do that, then it was a reach and he shouldn't have been taken....
Tell that to Green Bay. Carson Palmer was picked 1st overall and sat for a year. He then played elite until he got hurt. If memory serves me correctly, Eli Manning also didn't start right off the bat.
Starting a player before he's ready can lead to sustainment of a lot of bad habits...which Manziel definitely has.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
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We might pick up a UDFA, but I can't imagine us drafting another QB - we now have 5 on the roster,
I agree. Had we not signed Young (and Thigpen, I guess) then I could see us taking Shaw or Morris in the 6th or 7th but at this point better to just nab some guy you hope is a gem. Of course, if there's a QB they have rated really high and he's available that late, well...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,663
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,663 |
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j/c...
Do people really think we drafted JFF because a homeless guy said to?
I believe a homeless guy told him that, but I'm pretty sure Haslam was joking about that being why we took him.
Some of you guys are unreal...
Haters will hate.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
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Rivers, Eli, even Drew Brees started year one
Phillip Rivers sat a year. He only played in 2 games with 8 pass attempts his rookie year.
Correction he sat two years. 2 games with 22 pass attempts his sophomore year.
And Brees didn't play til week 8, his one and only game that year and did not start.
Team G-S Passing
Att.-Comp. Yards Pct. TD Int. Long Sacks-Lost Pass
Rating
2001 San Diego 1–0 27–15 221 .556 1 0 40 2–12 94.8
2002 San Diego 16–16 526–320 3,284 .608 17 16 52 24–180 76.9
Last edited by FloridaFan; 05/09/14 11:47 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,229
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,229 |
I love this pick. We desperately needed a QB and took propably the best one available in the draft. I jumped up and cheered when they made the pick. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,084
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,084 |
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You start Manziel day one...we traded up to get him...we took him in the 1st...you start him....the best place for him to learn is out on the field playing.
You start him if he wins the job.. and ONLY if he wins the job..
Thats fair enough and how it should be. I have no doubt that JFB will beat out Hoyer in camp because he has more talent plain and simple.
those saying we should "sit him" and ":baby him" are being unreasonable....this kid is going to make big bucks, he was picked in the Top 25, players picked in the Top 25 are meant to be guys that come in and contribute day one and start....if that player can't do that, then it was a reach and he shouldn't have been taken....
Wait, who is saying we should baby him?
I don't care if a QB is the first one drafted or the last one drafted. You DON'T throw him out there unless he wins the job. PERIOD.
Pettine isn't high on putting rookie QB's in.. He's quoted saying something to that effect. But even he isn't going to hold a guy back if he's the best he's got. He'll play him and that's exactly as it should be. You play the best guys you got.
I'm watching the NFL Network, they have a ticker running along the bottom. I guess the Browns are saying they won't be taking anymore QB's the draft. We'll see.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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I'm watching the NFL Network, they have a ticker running along the bottom. I guess the Browns are saying they won't be taking anymore QB's the draft. We'll see.
Yea, they weren't going to take Manziel either.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Well hopefully Haslam runs into another homeless man 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Browns select Johnny Manziel with
the 22nd overall pick
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![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
