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I for one am glad we picked o-line.
When i heard about gordon i figured we would be getting a wr.
The fact that we went oline shows that we are sticking to our board and not reaching for needs like we have always done.
And as long as they don't mind Greg Little lining up at #1 this season that is a perfectly valid way to go. Farmer and Pettine must be fine with our WR corp as is. So come the fall we will see if they are right or wrong..... and their jobs will hang in the balance.  Sure hope Little plays great.....
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Farmer and Pettine must be fine with our WR corp as is.
Once again. . .
The draft is over!?!?!
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Penny, I agree somewhat. Come on we tried developing Gilkey? One Year? Bitonio can play multiple positions....good value. What you should be asking what happens to the QB when Joe Thomas gets hurt.
Yeah I know we have only had Gilkey for one year but if Farmer thought he would be an answer we wouldn't have taken Bitonio. My point wasn't to knock on Gilkey rather point out that "developing" OG has been our MO.
I may be misinterpreting your Thomas comment but I imagine the same thing happens to our QB that happens to any QB that losses a franchise LT. Someone shifts to LT and the whole OL play suffers. This pick only helps that scenario not hurts it.
Unless you're the Broncos, then you lose your LT, and you just plug in the next guy, and make the Super Bowl anyway.
And how did that OL play in the Superbowl?
They got there. That's more than 30 other teams did.
They just ran into a buzzsaw in the Super Bowl, and a team that matched their weaknesses with strength in almost every aspect of the game. It happens. Manning was sacked a total of 18 times in the regular season. That cannot be discounted, even by a bad end of the year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Farmer and Pettine must be fine with our WR corp as is.
Once again. . .
The draft is over!?!?!
Once again, you think a ROOKIE they take in some later round is going to line up as a starter at #1?  Yeah, right.
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Oh, I thought you said, "Farmer and Pettine must be fine with our WR corp as is."
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lol...don't we have more picks?
The problem with everyone saying 'we should do this or that' is its our opinion.
Farmer has his. How do you know that farmer doesn't have a ton of wrs all ranked as 3rd rounders?
Whats the drop off for oline?
We've 'needed' receivers for years...and we reached and drafted a bunch of guys that never panned out.
We've 'needed' qb's for years and reached for a bunch of them too.
How about we try something different? Like sticking to our board....which is what we are obviously doing.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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j/c
well, we got my favorite CB, favorite OG, and 2nd favorite QB (behind Teddy).
gotta say that I'm a fan of Farmer.
now, he's gotta trade up and get a pass catcher.
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Oh, I thought you said, "Farmer and Pettine must be fine with our WR corp as is."
Basically they are. Anyone they take now will be a bench player. MAYBE get on the field a couple plays a game. Unless we trade for a vet. It is what it is.... and who knows? Maybe that works out as they want it..... it is their ass on the line. If they're cool with going BPA on their board and not taking a weapon to replace Gordon maybe that will work out for them. We shall see. Either way I'm probably going to be happy. As I LOVE the running game and thought we were FAR to pass happy last year. So I get to see some old school football.
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Farmer and Pettine must be fine with our WR corp as is.
Once again. . .
The draft is over!?!?!
Once again, you think a ROOKIE they take in some later round is going to line up as a starter at #1? Yeah, right.
Why is that laughable?
The Chargers did it last year.
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There is still starting level talent left in the draft. 3rd and 4th rounders come in and start all the time. As far as WR is concerned... its not like its hard to find someone to be out Little. Anyone who can catch gets the nod.
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I despise, loath, abhor, hate, and am repulsed by this pick.
What an idiotic pick. We don't need an OL .... so we take an OL. 
I take back a lot of the good I said about Farmer. This was a stupid, wasted pick.
So you agree with me then! GREAT PICK! 
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j/c:
Pettine said in the presser last night that Bitonio "will likely play guard."
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I like this pick. The kid is very tough and mean on the field. Yet, he is intelligent and a high character guy. He's really strong and buries people. I do think he plays a bit erect, though. Going to have to bend his knees more or his strength will be neutralized.
I think we will probably shift him inside to guard. We need a guard, so I am happy. It might take a bit of time to adjust though, because I don't think he played out of a 3 pt. stance much at LT in college.
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Today has been named Josh Gordon Day for WR's everywhere in the NFL draft. Their stock is going up. I think we need to take a few of these. A draft "deep in wide receiver talent" doesn't mean we have to wait for the bottom feeders and leftovers. Get some for camp, collect 'em, trade 'em with your friends, but get some. I am open to some UDFA shots, but let's shop now. WR just became a very pressing need IMO.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Today has been named Josh Gordon Day for WR's everywhere in the NFL draft. Their stock is going up. I think we need to take a few of these. A draft "deep in wide receiver talent" doesn't mean we have to wait for the bottom feeders and leftovers. Get some for camp, collect 'em, trade 'em with your friends, but get some. I am open to some UDFA shots, but let's shop now. WR just became a very pressing need IMO.
I'd think it's unlikely we find a replacement for Gordon in the later rounds of this draft.
That kinda talent just isn't there..
Then theres this:
http://www.wkyc.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2014/05/09/report-gordon-faces-year-long-ban/8919665/
This is saying that the Browns (at least the FO) have been aware of the Gordon issue for a while and could have adjusted their draft accordingly. But apparently they chose to stick to their plan.
Some will applaud them, some will pick them apart for it.
My take is that you can't go changing your plan because of one player. Gordon is appealing this, he may or may not win. I don't know for sure if this is truly a 1 year suspension or if it's a 6 game. Sorry, not up on all the rules.
I like the Oline guy they picked up. I don't think anyone questions he's a talent.
But even before the Gordon situation, I wanted us to take a WR at 35. That was my wish. I didn't get my wish.. Oh well.
The Back and the LB they picked up are pretty much unknown to me.
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Oh my goodness...2 guys I wanted in our top 3 picks...ARE ON THE TEAM!!!
 Screw Gordon...so we won't lose games as he gets 200 yards. Big deal.
And when he comes back...let him have a monster season and we trade him. As far as I'm concerned he is not a Brown and he add up to ZERO wins or LOSSES for that matter. He was a stat machine and a Luxury to have. Time to sell that BENTLEY and lets get this done with a reliable CHEVY!
Every one who told me - I GOT TERRIBLE NEWS...was surprised when I reacted with pffft...not that big of a deal. He is dead to me as a Brown...good bye and good riddance. And remember this Haslam and Farmer KNEW but they (Farmer) stayed true to their draft board and traded away Watkins...they aren't going to get desperate now cause all of the so called EXPERTS know that Gordon failed a test...Farmer knew around a week ago! Would I have wanted him here? Of course but him going doesn't change a thing with the TEAM! Either we are a good team or we are not. What if we lost Gordon to injury? Does that mean - OH NO our season is sunk...NAH
Bitonio was the guy I wanted here. We got the Best CB in this draft. We got the best QB in this draft and now we got the BEST OG in this draft - this kid can move and he has great footwork, he is nasty, without a doubt THE BEST Zone blocking OG in this draft! Good pick. So we didn't get what? the fifth sixth best WR in this draft. No big deal...still can't believe I got the guy I wanted!
  Screw Gordon he ain't going to rain on my parade! 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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My take is that you can't go changing your plan because of one player.
Right. And if Joe Thomas had abruptly decided to retire we wouldnt have drafted Lewan at 9. And if we had a QB we could rely on we still would have traded up for Manziel.
It amazes me how people continue to convince themselves that the makeup of the roster has nothing to do with draft strategy. Like it or not, WR went from a position of strength to weakness with Gordon out for the year and uncertain ty with Burlesons injury.
It sounds like the FO was so worried about being called out for panicking that they refuse to acknowledge the issue. Now they are talking about trading for wideouts? Cuts? Street free agents? We're going to be starting other team's castoffs or last year'sbackups and that is a plan?
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I don't know ..... all they have been talking about is bringing in another Tackle .......
They drafted him as a Tackle.
I don't think that they like Schwartz at Tackle, and want to replace him.
Alright. So YTown your first post in this thread surprised me; it seemed different than your style. I figured you were still upset about the Gordon news and you would mellow as the thread went on, while your tone has mellowed your message has stayed consistent. I want to understand you perspective, but I'm having trouble with this one.
There are a lot of "they" in those statements.
The first "they", who have been talking about bringing in another tackle, are the media.
The second "they", who drafted Schwartz as a tackle, are the old Browns front office? Or are "they", who drafted Bitonio as a tackle, the new Browns front office? I'm assuming it is Schwartz and the old front office.
The third "they", who you think don't like Schwartz at tackle, are the new Browns front office.
Now let me put on my speculation spectacles and get to spectalating.
It seems to me that you are letting the media influence what you think the new front office's opinion of Schwartz is. The only thing I can recall hearing from the Browns was Pettine stating that tackle was not a priority. Of course, this was in terms of the 4th overall pick, but it's really all I can use to glean any insight into their opinion of Schwartz.
I really think Bitonio was drafted as a guard. I understand your views that weapons are more important, but I think you have to consider the drop in talent from position to position. You can get an o-lineman you have rated highly in round two or a wide out who you have rated as middle tier. If you take the middle tier wide out you also take a middle tier o-lineman later.
The Browns knew about Gordon before the draft and haven't let it impact their strategy. I wish they knew about it leading up to free agency and could have made a play on Decker. Alas, you can't change what's behind you, you can only affect the future. I think the Browns staying committed to their philosophy and not reacting in a knee jerk fashion is going to positively affect the future.
Last edited by VarmintKong; 05/10/14 10:02 AM.
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Right. And if Joe Thomas had abruptly decided to retire we wouldnt have drafted Lewan at 9. And if we had a QB we could rely on we still would have traded up for Manziel.
I guess he should have phrased it to mean you don't change your draft plan cause of one WR...not player...WR - who cares the most over rated position in football.
Not Joe Thomas not a Franchise QB how can you possibly compare Gordon to those two positions?
btw you do know that Farmer had this intel about a week ago and still traded Watkins away and stuck with their plan... Hope that tells ya we aren't building a "FANTASY" team here where an elite WR means something. We are building a Championship TEAM here. Gordon made his choice...hope he enjoys getting high for the rest of his life! Trade his butt when he gets off the suspension!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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J/C
IMO We needed oline help bigtime. Nice pick. Protect the QB so he can live to play another day. WR's are a dime a dozen in this draft.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Right. And if Joe Thomas had abruptly decided to retire we wouldnt have drafted Lewan at 9. And if we had a QB we could rely on we still would have traded up for Manziel.
I guess he should have phrased it to mean you don't change your draft plan cause of one WR...not player...WR - who cares the most over rated position in football.
Not Joe Thomas not a Franchise QB how can you possibly compare Gordon to those two positions?
btw you do know that Farmer had this intel about a week ago and still traded Watkins away and stuck with their plan... Hope that tells ya we aren't building a "FANTASY" team here where an elite WR means something. We are building a Championship TEAM here. Gordon made his choice...hope he enjoys getting high for the rest of his life! Trade his butt when he gets off the suspension!
jmho
Both sides of the thought process are fair.
On one hand, if a guy like Thomas suddenly retires or a guy like Manning suddenly calls it quits in New York, yes, you change your draft strategy to accommodate the two most important single positions on the field.
On the other hand, while talented, Gordon is a wide receiver, and receivers don't carry the same value, so adjusting the draft strategy doesn't take on the same sense of urgency.
I fall into the latter category. For a team like the Browns, we're not heading to the Super Bowl this year. For us this is a marathon, not a sprint to the finish. We have to keep building the team, not trying to fill one or two final slots to make a big push to win it all.
If nothing else, losing Gordon should snap people's thoughts back into place on what having team talent really means, as opposed to having a few pro-bowlers and equating that to overall team-talent.
I'm glad we didn't start reaching for wideouts. Sure, we could have had Watkins, who I love, but is Watkins worth two 1st round picks? I say no, and had we taken him, that's exactly what our cost would have been: Our 1st round this year and the 1st rounder we wouldn't have in 2015.
I'm sure it was a tough decision on their part but I believe they made the right decision to stay the course, specifically because it was Gordon and not someone like Thomas.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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That's all well and good, and possibly true.
I think that this team, with the needs they had, taking a Guard that high was not the best use of their resources. Other, better teams managed to get top quality Guards in the late 3rd, and guys like Yankey, Turner, and Dozier, IIRC, are all still there, waiting to go in round 4.
I think that we could have fixed a major problem in the 2nd, and still been able to get a top flight kind of guy at G in the 3rd, if that was some major need. (which I do not believe it was)
As far as why I think that the team is out to replace Schwartz ..... well, they have seemingly talked up every Tackle in the draft .... saying that "not even Joe Thomas is free from competition" ...... which I think is actually a message headed to the other side of the line. However, I think that Schwartz is a fine RT in the WCO. He was 2 years ago when Shurmur was here.
Oh well, what's done is done. I really wanted Lee at 35 ..... so we'll see how that comparison of careers plays out over the next several years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Good O-linemen are tough to find. Hope we found the next Conrad Dobler. At least on the field, anyway. 
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Exactly! Farmer and Co. aren't at fault for the H & H mistakes like Gordon.....screw him and build the team that they want. You aren't going to replace Gordon in this draft anyway.
No they aren't but remember Gordon was drafted and we didn't know how big play he was or is..
So there could be another big play WR that could have been had.
But I give them credit for sticking to their board.
That said it looks like they weren't intending to go WR in this draft anyway.
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Right. And if Joe Thomas had abruptly decided to retire we wouldnt have drafted Lewan at 9. And if we had a QB we could rely on we still would have traded up for Manziel.
I guess he should have phrased it to mean you don't change your draft plan cause of one WR...not player...WR - who cares the most over rated position in football.
Not Joe Thomas not a Franchise QB how can you possibly compare Gordon to those two positions?
btw you do know that Farmer had this intel about a week ago and still traded Watkins away and stuck with their plan... Hope that tells ya we aren't building a "FANTASY" team here where an elite WR means something. We are building a Championship TEAM here. Gordon made his choice...hope he enjoys getting high for the rest of his life! Trade his butt when he gets off the suspension!
jmho
I agree tab, trust me i wont lie, when i heard about gordan i was sooooo ticked off and lost all the wind that was in my sails from the first round on thursday. However i do agree he needs to be traded. he is a straight up idiot, and i have no doubt the "friends" he hangs out with are only there for his money and his abilty to use that money to get more drugs. In fact i would go as far as to say they probably called him weak, or chicken or...well i dont want to curse...but you get the picture. His friends are probably a bunch of users. He chose those kind of friends over his teammates and this city. So once again i agree with you ...SCREW HIM! trade his ass the first chance we get
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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I hope this means the end of drafting offensive linemen high. Two 1sts and two 2nds is enough. Although next year there will be people wanting to draft a left guard high.  When you draft "unsexy" don't complain about looking ugly at the end of the year.
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I hope this means the end of drafting offensive linemen high. Two 1sts and two 2nds is enough. Although next year there will be people wanting to draft a left guard high.
When you draft "unsexy" don't complain about looking ugly at the end of the year.
To be fair, we've drafted 8 WR's in the first 2 rounds in the last 15 years ... we've seen where that's gotten us too.
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I hope this means the end of drafting offensive linemen high. Two 1sts and two 2nds is enough. Although next year there will be people wanting to draft a left guard high.
When you draft "unsexy" don't complain about looking ugly at the end of the year.
I know everyone want's to develop OL. Simple fact is it is very hard to do that with our level of continuity. When you constantly change systems it makes it hard for low end OL to develop into the guys you keep speaking of. Heck some of the guys around the league have been here, left, and became those solid yet average OL for other teams because we didn't have patience or continuity.
That said OL is never a bad investment. As a unit they have the most impact on any given play. San Fran has 4 1st's and 3 3rd's on their OL alone(only 1 1st was not drafted) We have 2 1st's and 2 2nd's. Hardly the worst. I'm sure the 49ers are the highest of any team so I'm not trying to say we need to catch up but an OL if you want an OL and your a team like us with constant turnover your going to have to spend the picks.
So far we're 3/3 with our new guy yet to see. I could think of a lot worse ways to use the picks. At least were batting 1000. Heck just without thinking I know the Steelers have used more picks on OL than us and I'm sure glad we took who we did over them! Their OL is horrid compared to ours. Pouncey, Decastro, Gilbert Adams vs Thomas, Mack, Schwartz, Bitonio. We win in a land slide. Heck we win without Joe.
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So far we're 3/3 with our new guy yet to see. I could think of a lot worse ways to use the picks. At least were batting 1000. Heck just without thinking I know the Steelers have used more picks on OL than us and I'm sure glad we took who we did over them! Their OL is horrid compared to ours. Pouncey, Decastro, Gilbert Adams vs Thomas, Mack, Schwartz, Bitonio. We win in a land slide. Heck we win without Joe.
and yet Pittsburgh wins more games.
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I hope this means the end of drafting offensive linemen high. Two 1sts and two 2nds is enough. Although next year there will be people wanting to draft a left guard high.
When you draft "unsexy" don't complain about looking ugly at the end of the year.
I hope it is the start.
The thing is if you do, and do it correctly, you only have to do it maybe every 3rd year....it is a 5 starter, 9-10 person unit. When you look at it in those terms, maybe you will change your thinking.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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OL is like QB or CB. they are very pricey in free agency. From a cap-standpoint, it makes a ton of sense to draft them early.
We can always get WRs and RBs in free agency. Tate, Burleson and Hawkins were all reasonable. They accepted short deals, and there were several other options at RB/WR. You can get these positions in trade as well.
Quality O-lineman are very expensive and very hard to get in free agency. Look at what we had to pay Mack. Look at what Lauvau got. We can't build our entire line that way, and we can't draft them late and hope they can start. Have to hit OLine early and often. Whether its a "need" this year or not.
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Yes, I agree.
OL should be hit every draft, doesn't have to be star material, depth and versatility have their place as well.
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A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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j/c
Browns just drafter their QB. One of his weaknesses is he is a little small. Now is not the time to go cheap on the OL. Getting Bitonio gives the Browns two #1, two #2, and one #3. I liked Lava, but Bitonio is an upgrade.
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I liked Lava, but Bitonio is an upgrade.
I like him as well, but keep in mind that he has never played OG so there will be a learning curve. Note that he has "suspect" arm length so playing OT may not be in the plan...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
Quote:
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So far we're 3/3 with our new guy yet to see. I could think of a lot worse ways to use the picks. At least were batting 1000. Heck just without thinking I know the Steelers have used more picks on OL than us and I'm sure glad we took who we did over them! Their OL is horrid compared to ours. Pouncey, Decastro, Gilbert Adams vs Thomas, Mack, Schwartz, Bitonio. We win in a land slide. Heck we win without Joe.
and yet Pittsburgh wins more games.
They pay the refs? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the guy with his hands in the C's crotch.
Last edited by predator16; 05/12/14 09:16 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
yeah I know OL men just don't have stats for ya... 
If we want a starter you draft one...If he's BPA you draft one - If a big upgrade falls in your lap - You draft him.
Supposedly Bitonio was such a BPA that when our pick came around there was no body close to him. yeah we should have passed him up - let me guess you would have preferred us to take a WR...the most over rated position in the NFL!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Mike Bitonio is his dad. Pro-MMA guy from the early days of the sport http://www.youtube.com/v/z5_ac43iz6Q
#gmstrong
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
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Supposedly Bitonio was such a BPA that when our pick came around there was no body close to him. yeah we should have passed him up - let me guess you would have preferred us to take a WR...the most over rated position in the NFL!
If he's BPA then draft him. If you truly think a punter is BPA, draft him.
On this site, we overrate the hell out of offensive linemen. We glorify them more than any unit in football. Yet teams with crap o-lines win super bowls like Seattle and Pittsburgh. If you want to talk defensive line, you'll have a favorable argument.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
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Mike Bitonio is his dad. Pro-MMA guy from the early days of the sport
http://www.youtube.com/v/z5_ac43iz6Q
That's crazy, head butting was legal? lol
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
Quote:
Quote:
Supposedly Bitonio was such a BPA that when our pick came around there was no body close to him. yeah we should have passed him up - let me guess you would have preferred us to take a WR...the most over rated position in the NFL!
If he's BPA then draft him. If you truly think a punter is BPA, draft him.
On this site, we overrate the hell out of offensive linemen. We glorify them more than any unit in football. Yet teams with crap o-lines win super bowls like Seattle and Pittsburgh. If you want to talk defensive line, you'll have a favorable argument.
I'd love for you to find anywhere in anyone's argument pro-OL that said to take an OL despite not being bpa. Exactly as you said if he is bpa you take the player. Yet you think we overrate them? I'm sorry but you are trying to oppose an opinion that is not necessary to oppose. WE all say BPA. Don't disregard OL just because you think we have taken too many high. We are only average in investment. The funny part is we have the best success with our high OL than any other NFL team it seems. I never even would have imagined that lol.
Seattle has a 1st round LT, LG and 2nd round C, RT just in the past 5 drafts. Pittsburgh has a 1st round C, RG and 2nd round RT, backup RT in the past 4 drafts or since they won their last Superbowl. Both teams have spent more than us as of late and have drafted average with those picks compared to our great.
Look man we all want BPA. We all want to win. The fact is we haven't used more picks on OL than most teams(we have just been more successful with those picks) . Those teams won because they had a top D(we now have IMO), an above average run game(we should have) and an above average QB(we hope we have). Heck if our D and run game improve as expected and our QB's magically become above average imagine our success? As you said our OL is much better than either of those teams. Even if you don't value that it would have to help.
The real question I want to ask is if we agree on BPA and you can see we don't overrate or overuse picks on OL compared to other teams would those teams not have been that much better had their OL picks turned out like ours? If the answer isn't absolutely yes then we will never agree haha.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Browns select Joel Bitonio with
the 35th overall pick
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