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I'm not one for assigning letter grades, but I figured I'd stick to the trend.
Really liked the Bitonio pick. Filled a huge need with a versatile and nasty player.
I see where they're going with Kirksey, but a bit of a reach.
Absolutely love the West pick. He's an Alfred Morris-clone. We're suddenly not barren at RB.
The wind was taken out of my sails with the selection of Manziel and the loss of Gordon, but I'm glad to see that there's a clear vision and plan to what we're building.
Can't say that it's going to come to fruition, but we've had so many bumbling FO's and coaching staffs on different pages making knee-jerk moves. It's nice to see a coherent plan in place.
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on the plus side we can makea move for a true #1 WR next draft
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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The best thing about this draft so far is that extra first.
I would've loved to get Mack or Watkins, but we've got a great shot at two top ten picks next year.
Gordon was a huge blow. Can't say I didn't expect it, though.
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Bitonio - B
Would be an A if it weren't for the Gordon situation or if Lee and Matthews weren't there.
Kirksey - F
Borderline talent and undersized at 71. Lots of good LBs available and we take a scrub who will be out of the league in 3 years.
West - C
B for the player but D for the resources used to get him.
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All three of the players selected this evening technically filled needs. Obviously I hope they pan out and can contribute this year. Honestly though I'm kind of in a state of disbelief regarding what happened today with Josh Gordon.
This hasn't been a bad draft, we've addressed needs....
Still would have rather had Watkins yesterday though....
I'm hoping that we select Jared Abbrederis tomorrow with our last real pick.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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Bitonio: C- Other teams filled major Guard needs late in the 3rd round. I think that we could have taken him, or a comparable player in the 3rd. I think we jumped way too high for a Guard. I would have taken Lee there. I have really liked Lee for a long time, and think that he'll be a star in the NFL.
Kirksey: D- He was rated as a 4-5 round guy by most boards, and yet we took him high in the 3rd. Either the browns are smarter than most ..... or we seriously over-drafted him. From what I saw of his, I didn't see special abilities. I didn't see the ability to shed blocks, and he just looks ordinary. I hate to hand out F's, so he gets a D-.
West: B- I didn't know a lot about him, but the more I see, the more I like. He is a solid, powerful runner, can pass protect, and catches the ball well. He looks the part of an AFCN RB, with huge, powerful thighs. He looks like a fit for Shanahan's offense. I like the pick, and don't mind giving a 4th and a 6th to go get him. (especially given that both Pittsburgh and Baltimore were reportedly very interested in him)
I think that we missed opportunities tonight. I think that we could have done much better than we did.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Kind of saddens me...we have what a 4th and 7th round pick...when we had plenty of picks coming in...looks like we will bringing in maybe more UDFA than usual...
Bitonio- A...saw a lot of mocks had him going in the latter part of round 1...we def. Needed a starting lineman...But with Gordon news Jordan Matthews may have been more sense.
Kirksey- C...ILB was a big need no doubt about it...but a guy who is in the Dquell Jackson frame...and struggles with blockers...very athletic though makes great plays on the ball...thought he was more of an OLB in a 4-3...but obviously they like him...perhaps Skov or Christian Jones made more sense
West- C...All picks were needs...including this one...but I felt we could have been fine waiting until round 4 with one of our multiple picks...intriguing pick tough thick and makes one move and is gone...looking at him 4.55 speed...but he looks to have 4.30 speed because he plays such weak and slow competition... How's he handle the NFL speed?
4th round it has to be WR right? Round 7 perhaps a safety
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Botino was my top guard but i would have prefered jordan mathews who i had rated much higher. B
Kirksey D- 6th rounder at best
West B+ I see a kid who is a perfect fit for Shannahan
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On paper, it looks like today was a Shanahan day.
An OG and a HB that are perfect for his scheme.
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Joel Bitonio - (B) A very athletic guard that plays with a nasty streak.An upgrade to the offensive line. A day 1 starter on the Oline gives the should make this pick an A. I think a better move would have been to trade down a acquire a later 2nd and maybe get another 3rd or 4th back or at the very least the lost 5th. That is why I down graded the pick to a B.
Christain Kirksey - (B) The weakness of the defense last year was covering the running backs out of the backfield and tight ends. This pick was clearly made with that weakness in mind. After the Detroit Lions 2nd half exposed this weakness the D never again played as well as it did to start the season. I gave the pick a B because it may have been a slight reach. Mock drafts are for fans and are rarely accurate. If he solidifies coverage of the backs and tight ends this will have been a great pick.
Terrance West - (C) He seems like a good pick up. Might have kept him from landing on the Steelers and Ravens. The reason I gave the pick a C is because of the trade up.
Yesterday I graded the moves a B+ Because of adding good players and extra 2015 draft picks but moved them down to a B+ because of the 2 trade ups and 2 lost draft picks.
Today I grade the day's draft a B-. Again they added solid players including 1 new starter but lost yet another draft pick and did not acquire any more picks.
I give the Browns a solid B so far in this draft.
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Bitonio - B+
I agree with most people it seems. This would have been a great, A grade pick had we not heard the news about Josh Gordon and had Mathews and Lee sitting right there for us. Still, we've got a guy that beefs up the line interior, and can even possibly move to RT if needed. It was a solid pick.
Kirksey - D
This was a bit of a head-scratcher. He's listed as an OLB, but some say he might move to ILB. So we used a third round pick on a guy we have to re-train to play ILB, when many listed him as a 4th or 5th rounder? Plus there's that whole thing with the WR's still going on.
West - C+
I think he was a solid pick, and a good fit for the system. I'm just not sure we really needed to trade up so much to get a backup RB. I guess they really liked the guy, but still ...
Today, I'd probably give them a C+ overall. I think the whole Josh Gordon news was really a kick in the footballs and really made a decent second day seems much worse than it was when we passed on so many WRs.
I'm wondering if the FO is hoping to get a WR when teams make cap-clearing cuts later this summer. Seems to be that WRs are always the first to go when teams need to clear some room.
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I would think of West as more than just a backup, especially considering Tate's injury history.
I'm not too concerned on passing over a WR for a G. A good WR is easier and cheaper to come by than a guard. Lauvao netted $4/mil a year on the open market for crying out loud.
Not to mention, the 49ers just landed a #1-calibur WR for a 4th today.
I didn't expect us to compete for the playoffs this year with or without Gordon, so I guess there's some patience there. I didn't really think we could fill all of our holes as it was, let alone after losing Gordon.
I keep trying to talk myself into Kirksey, but it's tough. I understand the philosophy, not so much the timing.
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I mostly agree with you there. I'm thinking that if the Gordon news didn't come out, then everybody would be loving the Bitonio pick. Didn't most people have a guard slotted in the 2nd round pick anyway? We probably got the best one available for the system we run.
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Gotta say I'm overly disappointed that they didn't do more to help Manziel by getting legitimate wide receivers that could help the team.
And to say that is an understatement.
And without getting legitimate wide receivers and pass protectors for Manziel, little else will improve this teams fortunes.
They can't afford to miss on Any draft pick! They can't afford to miss on back to back picks like they did when they traded out of the draft last year.
And they can't afford to miss on back to back picks, like every pick today.
The whole draft is a total F, it's an F on various levels.
They are not going to come out of this draft with 10 prospects, and they are minus 1 on Wide receivers in the last 48 hous.
How do you go minus 1? How do you waste picks by trading up 3 times.
Train wreck, the games are going to be train wrecks on offense.
And Chunks of games will be train wrecks on defense.
You can't win in a passing league without wide receivers.
It's like a baseball team without pitching
It's like holding an ice cream sundae and not having a spoon.
They just don't get it.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Should have gotten WR Lee, OG G.Jackson and ILB Skov..... and we probably still would have gotten West in the 4th. If I told you before the draft, that we could have gotten Gilbert, Bridgewater, M.Lee, G.Jackson and Skov AND the Bills 1st next draft, you would have called me crazy and asked me where to sign up. That's why I have a really hard time signing up for their actual decisions
Players aren't horrible, but there are question marks and who's gonna play outside WR? Lee and Matthews were day one talents to fill the void, but they chose a questiomable OT/OG convert from Nevada who will block for a rabbit anyway. That decision was a big mistake, thus
C-
I had a C+ yesterday, so this is as AVG a draft as it gets for me with pretty much only the extra 1st saving it from a D. I think they botched two huge decisions at 26 and 35
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Not impressed with day 2 at all. "C -"
Bitonio is a good pickup,as Wartz sucked,and the Browns knew it.Had to upgrade that and they did.Hate taking another undersized 200 pound nothing LB. Come on Browns,really? As for West,I'm not really sure of,as he is a small school guy,and wasn't facing the best talent so it's hard for me to judge that.His build is good for our division,and should be able to pound it out with the stinking Ratbirds and Bumble Bees.Still don't like having to move up like we did to get him.Like everyone else,I can't understand not taking a WR given the Gordon situation,and band aids at WR don't cut it at all,when you just drafted a new franchise QB. Should have grabbed Watkins on day one IMO.
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Quote:
I mostly agree with you there. I'm thinking that if the Gordon news didn't come out, then everybody would be loving the Bitonio pick. Didn't most people have a guard slotted in the 2nd round pick anyway? We probably got the best one available for the system we run.
I agree. I love the thought Farmer wasn't going to let a possible suspension change his draft board or draft process.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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IF they knew Gordon was going to be suspended and still threw away the chance at Watkins then I view the entire draft as a failure and just plain stupid.
IF they didn't know Then day 1 was a B but day 2 was a C. Once of the deepest drafts with quality WR and we just spit on all of them. Unbelievable.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Quote:
IF they knew Gordon was going to be suspended and still threw away the chance at Watkins then I view the entire draft as a failure and just plain stupid.
IF they didn't know Then day 1 was a B but day 2 was a C. Once of the deepest drafts with quality WR and we just spit on all of them. Unbelievable.
I think the exact opposite. If they knew, then I am impressed with their fortitude. Sounds like they are handling the draft in the way we always wanted the Browns to handle it. Some of you are letting the Josh Gordon thing cloud your judgment.
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IF they knew Gordon was going to be suspended and still threw away the chance at Watkins then I view the entire draft as a failure and just plain stupid.
IF they didn't know Then day 1 was a B but day 2 was a C. Once of the deepest drafts with quality WR and we just spit on all of them. Unbelievable.
I think the exact opposite. If they knew, then I am impressed with their fortitude. Sounds like they are handling the draft in the way we always wanted the Browns to handle it. Some of you are letting the Josh Gordon thing cloud your judgment.
Totally agreed. People are also ignoring the extra 1st we picked up next year. If you don't think that trade was good business, then I'm unsure what anyone can say.
Also people are berating the FO for not picking up a receiver yet claiming it to be the deepest class in years. Maybe we pick up one in the 4th? If we don't, I'm still on board with Farmer and the rest of the FO.
Manziel's progress will reveal whether this draft was just solid or whether it was spectacular IMHO but we have upgraded several key areas -again IMHO.
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I am baffled that people are upset we didn't take a WR at 4.
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but we've got a great shot at two top ten picks next year.
Agreed with just about all you wrote except for the above. Losing Gordon is losing a weapon without a doubt. But losing games...you and not only you all these so called experts just simply over value an elite WR in winning a championship...where? I mean Gordon had back to back 200 games an NFL feat never done before...you would think we were 2-0 from that...nah, 0-2 But my fantasy team with Gordon on it had a Monster day and I would win (don't do fantasy by my boys do so I hear all the yada yada).
Horizontal stretch for the O is more important than "GORDON" that will be executed by Kyle's run game. Vertical stretch...we still got Benjamin to go vertical and Little can take it long as well.
Gordon...it sucks we are losing him unless by some miracle it was a diluted water thing and he actually passes his tests but I doubt it. It might mean the difference of getting into the playoffs you know 9 wins instead of 10...but to go 9-10 wins to 3-5 cause of Gordon, he ain't worth all those wins by himself. This here game is Won as a TEAM not this I and ME Stuff and individual stats...either we are a good team or we are not and not having Gordon shouldn't put a dent in that equation.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I expected us to be in contention for a top ten pick even with Gordon.
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Ok...good man, sort of falls in line with the team not Gordon. I don't care if that your opinion - so be it. You are entitled to it - I did care if it was related to the loss of Gordon which you clearly said it had nothing to do with it. I'm good with that. Don't agree but ok with it...lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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New coaching staff, new scheme, huge question marks at QB...
I'm not saying we couldn't find ourselves in a playoff hunt, as wins and losses hinge on a very fine point, but I'd be more inclined to bet on a high pcik that a playoff berth.
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Bitonio at 35
A
Definitely think offensive line was a need, especially implementing the zone-blocking scheme. Those Browns fans counting on Pinkston or McQuistan were nuts, IMO, and I am happy to see the the Browns invest in an athletic, smart, nasty, versatile lineman who can potentially help the Browns line turn into an elite unit.
Kirksey at 71
C+
I actually like Kirksey. I had my eyes on him early in the process because of his speed and versatility. He is slightly undersized, but by all accounts was the heart and soul of the Iowa defense and is a hard worker. So I do like the player, and would have given this pick a B+ if it were a round or two later. But at 71 I don't see the value, so it drops a letter grade.
West at 94
B+
I really, really like West. One of my favorite running backs in the draft, and should be an excellent fit for the zone scheme. In college everyone in every stadium knew he was getting the ball, but it never mattered. He is big, has power, and isn't real shifty, but seems to have good feet and that ability to subtly shift his body to avoid major collisions.
Day 2 Overall
B
I really liked the Bitonio and West picks, but the Kirksey value is still a head scratcher to me. But if he steps on the field and makes an impact I won't care where he was drafted. I was happy to see the Browns not take a WR out of panic, although it'll be interesting to see what happens there. It seems clear the Browns are planning on winning with defense, a strong running game, and a mobile QB, much like Seattle and San Francisco.
Draft Overall
A-
Day 2 was never going to be as exciting as Day 1, and the Gordon news was like a punch in the gut that deflated everyone. But overall the draft has still been really solid, getting a future 1st, Gilbert, Manziel, Bitonio, Kirksey, and West. The Browns seem to know what kind of players they want, and are not afraid to move up to get them. Only pick I question is Kirksey, and that's because of the value. Truthfully, if Gilbert and Manziel have good careers this draft will be considered a success no matter what when we look back on it.
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I mostly agree with you there. I'm thinking that if the Gordon news didn't come out, then everybody would be loving the Bitonio pick. Didn't most people have a guard slotted in the 2nd round pick anyway? We probably got the best one available for the system we run.
I agree. I love the thought Farmer wasn't going to let a possible suspension change his draft board or draft process.
They could have taken a WR.
As someone else said ... the Browns weren't drafting BPA .......
Does anyone else really buy that they had Christian Kirksey as the #1 player on their board ...........the #1 player left in all of college football when they picked him?
Not a chance.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I am baffled that people are upset we didn't take a WR at 4.
I am shocked that people are upset that we passed on a WR with a couple of drug charges not that long ago .... especially when Gordon is gone because of ....... drugs.
I am certain that they decided that they just weren't going to take that risk, especially when Buffalo offered what they did.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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I am baffled that people are upset we didn't take a WR at 4.
I am shocked that people are upset that we passed on a WR with a couple of drug charges not that long ago .... especially when Gordon is gone because of ....... drugs.
I am certain that they decided that they just weren't going to take that risk, especially when Buffalo offered what they did.
But knowing what they did and the fact Stevie Johnson was dealt the next day, why not try to make him part of that deal? I don't know, maybe they did try?
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
I am baffled that people are upset we didn't take a WR at 4.
I am shocked that people are upset that we passed on a WR with a couple of drug charges not that long ago .... especially when Gordon is gone because of ....... drugs.
I am certain that they decided that they just weren't going to take that risk, especially when Buffalo offered what they did.
I'm shocked that anyone is shocked that Josh Gordon is facing a one year suspension. They (the FO) are sticking to their plan. Good or bad, they seem to have a plan. How refreshing is that? 
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Quote:
Quote:
I am baffled that people are upset we didn't take a WR at 4.
I am shocked that people are upset that we passed on a WR with a couple of drug charges not that long ago .... especially when Gordon is gone because of ....... drugs.
I am certain that they decided that they just weren't going to take that risk, especially when Buffalo offered what they did.
Y, good point. Why draft problems. But why not get a WR in the Kirksey position? I like Kirksey, he's a PLAYER but our need was greater at WR by far, don't you think? If they get a decent WR today, (not many left) it may play out well, but if not, i'm concerned.
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Quote:
Quote:
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I am baffled that people are upset we didn't take a WR at 4.
I am shocked that people are upset that we passed on a WR with a couple of drug charges not that long ago .... especially when Gordon is gone because of ....... drugs.
I am certain that they decided that they just weren't going to take that risk, especially when Buffalo offered what they did.
Y, good point. Why draft problems. But why not get a WR in the Kirksey position? I like Kirksey, he's a PLAYER but our need was greater at WR by far, don't you think? If they get a decent WR today, (not many left) it may play out well, but if not, i'm concerned.
I wanted Lee there. I really like him as a WR, and think that he's going to have a great career.
We'll see who does better over the next few years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
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I am baffled that people are upset we didn't take a WR at 4.
I am shocked that people are upset that we passed on a WR with a couple of drug charges not that long ago .... especially when Gordon is gone because of ....... drugs.
I am certain that they decided that they just weren't going to take that risk, especially when Buffalo offered what they did.
But knowing what they did and the fact Stevie Johnson was dealt the next day, why not try to make him part of that deal? I don't know, maybe they did try?
I wish we could have gotten Stevie, especially given the circumstances. He's only 27, and is a quality receiver. The cost wasn't so prohibitive that we could not possibly afford it. Heck, maybe we could have just flipped the Bills 4th round pick next year back to them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I wouldn't have cried if we took Lee, but I've grown weary of taking second round fliers on WR's with flags.
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Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356 |
I look at his 2012 season, and he was as good as any WR I saw that year. He was also damn good in 2011. Last year was a bit of an off year ..... he lost his QB, and his receiver running mate, and he struggled with some injuries ..... but man, the 2011 and 2012 seasons were phenomenal. I really think that the Jags helped themselves a great deal with Lee and Robinson to go along with Bortles. I think that they got great value.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,670 Likes: 673
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,670 Likes: 673 |
I give the entire draft a big fat "T"... time will tell, until then I love it.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,990 Likes: 9
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,990 Likes: 9 |
Quote:
Quote:
IF they knew Gordon was going to be suspended and still threw away the chance at Watkins then I view the entire draft as a failure and just plain stupid.
IF they didn't know Then day 1 was a B but day 2 was a C. Once of the deepest drafts with quality WR and we just spit on all of them. Unbelievable.
I think the exact opposite. If they knew, then I am impressed with their fortitude. Sounds like they are handling the draft in the way we always wanted the Browns to handle it. Some of you are letting the Josh Gordon thing cloud your judgment.
That's not fortitude its being an ostrich with your head in the sand combined with the stubbornness of a mule. They certainly were not drafting based on BPA. They drafted by need the whole draft which always leads to over reaching and failure.
If your drafting BPA then you pick Watkins. Watkins was good enough to have the value of 2 first round picks but not good enough for us to take him when we knew our #1 WR was lost to us?! C'mon guys. Instead they go for corner because HC NEEDS one for his system. He is not even the clear best choice at CB but just the one that fits the new system best.
Yeah, I get that many of you like Manziel but if he wasn't good enough to take at 4 then he is no clear cut starter either. Just another BQ or Weeden most likely, yet people are already screaming to have him start. SIGH!
Just who the hell is gonna catch the ball regardless of who starts anyways? No #1 WR means Jordon will be shutdown hardcore. They will also crowd the line of scrimmage so kiss that running game good bye too.
Another year of what looks like one of the worst offenses in the league is getting really freaking old.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Most of you guys seem to be forgetting the fact that we got Josh Gordon in the SUPPLEMENTAL DRAFT. With the deep WR draft of this year, I'm sure the Browns will pick up someone there OR bring in a veteran post draft but pre training camp. Remember, the common belief is that they have known for a couple weeks. I'm SURE they have planned for the likelihood that Gordon is out for the year... I'm giving the front office the benefit of the doubt. Except that Manziel pick has me doubting... 
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 433
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 433 |
Aside from not getting a top WR,which I wanted even before the Gordon mess,I would say it was a good draft.They got three impact players who are going to start right away at T,RB,and DB.Not sure about JM as you never can tell.Didn't like the LB pick at all,but maybe I'm wrong about him.Overall I would grade it a B+
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Anonymous
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Dang... I forgot..
T.O. AND Ocho Cinco are NOT in the NFL right now...
I say bring in T.O, Ocho and Santonio Holmes, sign them all 3 to a 1 year contract and tell them the one with the best stats at the end of the year will be here next year.
Win for us either way I say especially in the situation we are in right now...
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Grading Today's Moves 2.0
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