It looks like a new front has opened up in Cliven Bundy's war against the US government.
This Saturday, angry residents of San Juan County, Utah, plan to illegally ride their ATVs through Utah's Recapture Canyon—an 11 mile-long stretch of federal land that is home to Native American archeological sites—because they don't think that the federal Bureau of Land Management should have designated that land off-limits to motor vehicles. The protest was meant to be a local affair. But on Thursday, Bundy, the rancher who wouldn't pay the feds grazing fees and sparked a gun-drenched showdown in Nevada, called on his supporters to join the anti-government off-roading event, E&E Publishing's Phil Taylor reported. Bundy, whose crusade against the federal government became tainted by his racist comments, is looking to spread the cause from cattle to cross-country cruising.
"We don't expect any violence," San Juan County Sheriff Rick Eldredge told the Denver Post last week. Others aren't so sure, especially since the out-of-staters in attendance could help rile things up—which is what happened during the Bundy stand-off. "This may blow up to be significantly more than they thought," Bill Boyle, a resident of San Juan and publisher of the San Juan Record newspaper told the Post. "I think there are those who would like everyone with an AK-47 to be here."
San Juan County residents who plan to attend Saturday's event are Bundy supporters and Ted Nugent fans, according to an analysis of their Facebook pages by the Denver Post. They also hate President Barack Obama and Senate majority leader Harry Reid, according to the newspaper, which reports that "BLM employees in San Juan County have had windows shot out of their homes and their yards torn up by ATVs in the middle of the night."
The BLM made the Recapture Canyon land off limits in 2007 because ATVs were damaging the land and folks were vandalizing Native American sites. San Juan County Commissioner Phil Lyman, who is organizing Saturday's protest, does not believe the feds have the authority to protect cultural resources. He says the goal of the ride is to reassert county jurisdiction in the face of federal "overreach," according to the Salt Lake Tribune. Federal overreach was the theme that Bundy's champions in the national conservative media repeatedly pressed—until Bundy's racist comments became news.
Local officials do not have a good estimate of how many mad-as-hell ATV riders will show up to zoom through sacred Native American land on Saturday. But the BLM has decided to stand back and avoid a conflict for now, as it did several weeks ago on the Bundy ranch in Nevada. Utah's BLM director Juan Palma, however, said there will nonetheless be consequences for the anti-government activists. "The BLM-Utah has not and will not authorize the proposed ride and will seek all appropriate civil and criminal penalties against anyone who uses a motorized vehicle within the closed area," he said in a statement.
Those who are on the outward fringe of things makes it so very hard for those with common sense to get across the real message. These clowns will do far more harm to the message they actually wish to deliver than good.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: Those who are on the outward fringe of things makes it so very hard for those with common sense to get across the real message. These clowns will do far more harm to the message they actually wish to deliver than good.
Ecxacly! Totaly agree. Althogh I've been callng them the lunitic fringe for years.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
That said, this is hardly civil disobedience. Hopefully they all get arrested and have to spend the night in jail, or at least holding.
Maybe the BLM should just ignore them and stay out of it. Let all the native americans take care of their sacred lands while these lawless cowboys sleep in their camps. The BLM could pay them a 100 dollars a scalp, You know like the U.S. gov't paid a buck a scalp for native scalps during the indian wars.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Quote: San Juan County Commissioner Phil Lyman, who is organizing Saturday's protest, does not believe the feds have the authority to protect cultural resources.
Quote: San Juan County Commissioner Phil Lyman, who is organizing Saturday's protest, does not believe the feds have the authority to protect cultural resources.
If you don't agree with somebody, harass the crap out of them. Invade their private lives and make fun of their families. Just like those newspapers publishing the addresses and maps to the homes of CCL holders. It's the progressive way!
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: If you don't agree with somebody, harass the crap out of them. Invade their private lives and make fun of their families. Just like those newspapers publishing the addresses and maps to the homes of CCL holders. It's the progressive way!
Quote: If you don't agree with somebody, harass the crap out of them. Invade their private lives and make fun of their families. Just like those newspapers publishing the addresses and maps to the homes of CCL holders. It's the progressive way!
I really don't like where parts of this board are heading.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I would assume that PDR's is a fake number, because it has the (555) prefix ......
As far as posting anyone's personal information, I see no good outcome for that. Suppose some moron reads this thread, and decides to call the subject f this thread, and mentions that he got his number on this board.
That's trouble no one wants. It's completely unnecessary.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: If you don't agree with somebody, harass the crap out of them. Invade their private lives and make fun of their families. Just like those newspapers publishing the addresses and maps to the homes of CCL holders. It's the progressive way!
I've seen conservatives use this tactic, too.
You forget that I'm almost 60 years old... and I watched conservatives use these same tactics when I was a punk kid of 15, 17 and 21. It goes back as far as I can remember, and it's still in use today. 'Progressives' haven't cornered the market in the shame, castigation, harassment, ridicule and blame game.
Let's not limit ourselves to just these more current events, if we're going to really look at people.
History casts a long eye on what Human Beings do to themselves.
Nobody gets out of The Big Story without a little blood on his hands.
Quote: That's not my phone number. It was a joke....I got a chuckle out of it.
Yeah, the (555) gave that away. I was referring more to the original post. I see no need for that kind of stuff.
Giving out a number for a Senator's office, or something like that is one thing ..... but that is something entirely different.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: So I should stop giving out your phone number to sex starved beautiful 21 year old women then?
In my current condition ....... probably.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
The reason I stay out of most of these discussions is simple.
It dates back to a moment when My Pops dropped some deepazz wisdom on me. I might have been around 15, 16 or 17 at the time.
For some strange reason, I was actually watching the evening news with The Parents. Anti Viet Nam protesters were featured in one news segment. The next one featured scenes of fire hoses and attack dogs being set upon American citizens. I asked My Pops what made all these people so angry. He simply said:
"Bobby- this is what happens when people stop listening, and start choosing sides."
Hit me like a load of bricks.
Any time I hear "con v. lib, Muslim v. Christian, Atheist v. Believer, Black v. White, Repub v. Dem, [insert pro/con here], I first hear: "bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"...
Next, I hear My Dad. Then, I start Listening -with a surgical ear.
I'm getting old. I no longer have the luxury of time that comes from being 27 years old any more. I don't have time for [insert word for 'male bovine excrement']. Idiots are going to continually do unspeakable things to each other, and others are going to 'take sides' when it's more convenient than thinking for oneself about who we really are.
Bundyworld, The New Mexico folk, Occupy, Tea Party-goers... they've all pretty much decided to stop listening and start shouting. I don't listen to most of it any more. I keep my ear out for someone who's actually talking... and filter out as much of the "bzzzzz" as I can.
It's the only way I can keep my (version of) sanity intact.
Armed standoffs, organized displays of anarchy, and mass political gatherings are tribalism in its most basic form... and ALL versions display behavior that reeks of 'shared personal dysfunction' to me.
"Men go crazy in congregations; they only get better one-by-one" -Sting; "The Soul Cages" 1991.
Quote: If you don't agree with somebody, harass the crap out of them. Invade their private lives and make fun of their families. Just like those newspapers publishing the addresses and maps to the homes of CCL holders. It's the progressive way!
I've seen conservatives use this tactic, too.
You forget that I'm almost 60 years old... and I watched conservatives use these same tactics when I was a punk kid of 15, 17 and 21. It goes back as far as I can remember, and it's still in use today. 'Progressives' haven't cornered the market in the shame, castigation, harassment, ridicule and blame game.
I hear you. Do you remember the trash exchange between Mike DeWine and John Glenn? It was brutal. I still get a chuckle out of that John Glenn Energizer bunny that keeps owing....and owing.....and owing.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: Those who are on the outward fringe of things makes it so very hard for those with common sense to get across the real message. These clowns will do far more harm to the message they actually wish to deliver than good.
That's basically what I tell all my brothers Pot Head buddies when they try to explain to me why weed should be legal...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
I once visited Occupy Toledo (yeah, it existed) and a Tea Party rally in NW Ohio. Neither made much sense to me. Both were very "We're all up against the machine, man..." in different flavors.
Clem the more I hear about your dad the more I love the man. I can see why you turned out to be such a good man, and the credit has to go to both of your parents and to you as well.
Quote: Those who are on the outward fringe of things makes it so very hard for those with common sense to get across the real message. These clowns will do far more harm to the message they actually wish to deliver than good.
That's basically what I tell all my brothers Pot Head buddies when they try to explain to me why weed should be legal...
I understand many people feel that way. I just don't understand all of the money we spend in the court system and the prison systems instead of all the tax money we would make. Anyone who wants to smoke it can get it and smoke it. Making money from it rather than spending tons of money trying to prevent and stop something that can't be stopped just kind of seems pointless to me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: What would providing his home address do? How would that help?
Well, I don't think anything we type on an NFL message board is helpful to this situation.
I doubt anyone is going to contact him. But an elected official wants to illegally use OUR property for the means of gaining attention? Okay, He knows that welcomes all sorts of attention. If you want to help, share your thoughts with the man. Its your land too.
Besides, politicians have no problems data-mining & sharing our address and phone. I get solicitations from Rand Paul in Kentucky.
That said, this is hardly civil disobedience. Hopefully they all get arrested and have to spend the night in jail, or at least holding.
Why is this not civil disobedience? As long as it's not violent or destructive, I have no problem with civil disobedience.. the thing is that you should be prepared to pay the price. If you are going to break a law as a protest against that law, fine, go for it. But when the dust settles, you should be charged with a crime fitting a person who broke that law... whether you broke the law as a show of civil disobedience, neglect, or outright stupidity, you should be charged the same.
I think the question here is a little more muddled when those who claim to be protesters, start arming themselves with assault rifles. While violence hasn't been used, the intent that they're willing to use extreme violence is implied by such actions IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: I think the question here is a little more muddled when those who claim to be protesters, start arming themselves with assault rifles. While violence hasn't been used, the intent that they're willing to use extreme violence is implied by such actions IMO
While I may not agree with what's going on, I have a question for you pit: when did you start working for ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, or MSNBC? Assault rifles? You threw out a buzzword. Good work.
We're in agreement for the most part. The reason this wouldn't be a move of civil disobedience is if they bring an AK or damage the land, which they are planning on doing and have been doing.
Quote: We're in agreement for the most part. The reason this wouldn't be a move of civil disobedience is if they bring an AK or damage the land, which they are planning on doing and have been doing.
Are AK's illegal? I wasn't aware of that. There ARE some that are illegal, for 99.9%.....the fully auto ak's. But the vast majority of ak owners do not own fully auto ak's. They are semi auto. Not much different then a semi auto .22, aside from the bullet they shoot.
Quote: We're in agreement for the most part. The reason this wouldn't be a move of civil disobedience is if they bring an AK or damage the land, which they are planning on doing and have been doing.
Are AK's illegal? I wasn't aware of that. There ARE some that are illegal, for 99.9%.....the fully auto ak's. But the vast majority of ak owners do not own fully auto ak's. They are semi auto. Not much different then a semi auto .22, aside from the bullet they shoot.
Please, before you get on your high horse, I just wanted to let you know that I own an AK. Bringing any weapon is not civil disobedience, it's just disobedience, which I'm also not against, but only in extreme situations.
But HDT didn't not pay his taxes and pull out a rifle when they came to arrest him. Gandhi didn't have a pistol with him. Rosa Parks didn't carry an AK on the bus. Those are examples of civil disobedience. Because that's what it was, civil disobedience.
Quote: We're in agreement for the most part. The reason this wouldn't be a move of civil disobedience is if they bring an AK or damage the land, which they are planning on doing and have been doing.
Are AK's illegal? I wasn't aware of that. There ARE some that are illegal, for 99.9%.....the fully auto ak's. But the vast majority of ak owners do not own fully auto ak's. They are semi auto. Not much different then a semi auto .22, aside from the bullet they shoot.
Unless you add a bump fire stock to them, and this is perfectly legal.
How about just "guns" or "rifles" or "firearms"? Most people have no clue what an "assault rifle" actually is, as most don't know they were illegal for civilian use before they were invented. There has never been an "assault rifle ban" using the phrase "assault rifle". It's a buzzword intended solely to arouse emotion and confuse facts.
