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Absolutely!
If there's any bi-partisanship it should be ANYTHING having to do with providing veterans any benefit manageable.
This agency is literally stuck in the last century.
I'll go one step further, take out the word manageable. If we promised them medical care, give them medical care. And I don't mean minimal care, I mean EXCELLENT care.
We throw money into a hole when we fight a war, we should spare no expense when tending to our military personnel.
We don't have the money is an excuse. we don't have the money for war either, yet we find it. So find it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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They should get free ACA benefits with $0 deductibles, close the VA, and allow them to use the same services as everyone else without out of pocket cost. Benefits include husband and current spouse, and children under 18 and/or children enrolled full time in college.
This might accomplish multiple things. It would dissolve the screwed up VA system, give veterans the care they need, and possible entice more to enlist in service to acquire lifelong benefits.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Dawg Talker
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 100%
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Dawg Talker
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They should get free ACA benefits with $0 deductibles, close the VA, and allow them to use the same services as everyone else without out of pocket cost. Benefits include husband and current spouse, and children under 18 and/or children enrolled full time in college.
This might accomplish multiple things. It would dissolve the screwed up VA system, give veterans the care they need, and possible entice more to enlist in service to acquire lifelong benefits.
Which may have the side effect of improving the poverty level.
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They should get free ACA benefits with $0 deductibles, close the VA, and allow them to use the same services as everyone else without out of pocket cost. Benefits include husband and current spouse, and children under 18 and/or children enrolled full time in college.
This might accomplish multiple things. It would dissolve the screwed up VA system, give veterans the care they need, and possible entice more to enlist in service to acquire lifelong benefits.
At first blush, I don't have a problem with this.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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They should get free ACA benefits with $0 deductibles, close the VA, and allow them to use the same services as everyone else without out of pocket cost. Benefits include husband and current spouse, and children under 18 and/or children enrolled full time in college.
This might accomplish multiple things. It would dissolve the screwed up VA system, give veterans the care they need, and possible entice more to enlist in service to acquire lifelong benefits.
The problems with the VA go well beyond simple medical coverage... receiving disability benefits and payments is the biggest issue facing today's veterans.
I know several who have waited years to receive their first checks During this time, they not only have the stresses of dealing with normal life (usually while fighting PTSD), but then the headaches (literal and figurative) of constantly having to battle the VA - sometimes being told that their claims aren't even valid.
The suicide rates quoted elsewhere in this thread are legit... guys are popping themselves off at an incredibly disturbing rate.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
They should get free ACA benefits with $0 deductibles, close the VA, and allow them to use the same services as everyone else without out of pocket cost. Benefits include husband and current spouse, and children under 18 and/or children enrolled full time in college.
This might accomplish multiple things. It would dissolve the screwed up VA system, give veterans the care they need, and possible entice more to enlist in service to acquire lifelong benefits.
The problems with the VA go well beyond simple medical coverage... receiving disability benefits and payments is the biggest issue facing today's veterans.
I know several who have waited years to receive their first checks During this time, they not only have the stresses of dealing with normal life (usually while fighting PTSD), but then the headaches (literal and figurative) of constantly having to battle the VA - sometimes being told that their claims aren't even valid.
The suicide rates quoted elsewhere in this thread are legit... guys are popping themselves off at an incredibly disturbing rate.
Agreed, but I don't think we will ever get that part away from government control just because of what it is. But maybe if we remove the medical care portion from their greedy little hands, they can focus more attention and resources to the other necessities.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Quote:
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They should get free ACA benefits with $0 deductibles, close the VA, and allow them to use the same services as everyone else without out of pocket cost. Benefits include husband and current spouse, and children under 18 and/or children enrolled full time in college.
This might accomplish multiple things. It would dissolve the screwed up VA system, give veterans the care they need, and possible entice more to enlist in service to acquire lifelong benefits.
The problems with the VA go well beyond simple medical coverage... receiving disability benefits and payments is the biggest issue facing today's veterans.
I know several who have waited years to receive their first checks During this time, they not only have the stresses of dealing with normal life (usually while fighting PTSD), but then the headaches (literal and figurative) of constantly having to battle the VA - sometimes being told that their claims aren't even valid.
The suicide rates quoted elsewhere in this thread are legit... guys are popping themselves off at an incredibly disturbing rate.
Agreed, but I don't think we will ever get that part away from government control just because of what it is. But maybe if we remove the medical care portion from their greedy little hands, they can focus more attention and resources to the other necessities.
This is Government regulated health care at it's worse and it has evolved into a bureaucratic nightmare beyond repair. Some on the right have described the veterans health care system as a mirror image of the Affordable Care Act in the future.
GO BROWNS!
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JC
Congress found™money to fight the war while the deficit was soaring towards $1 Trillion. They passed enormous spending bills for the war. They quickly found $700 Billion for banks while revenues were falling off a cliff and the deficit was ballooning.
Now, we have revenues surging. Corporate profits and the stock market at all-time highs. The deficit is cut in half. And we can't afford this?
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I'm lost on what you think I originally proposed, and I was only referring to the hospital portion of Veteran Affairs, not all the death and disability benefits and payments.
In my proposal (which is far from perfect), basically they get everything the VA hospitals offer, but get it by going to the same doctors and hospitals everyone else goes to, but they get their ACA card (For lack of a better term) and have no co-pay or deductible. No services are being denied them and they aren't sitting around waiting on the government the tell them when they can go.
Now mind you that isn't to say that the ACA doesn't eventually become a national version of what the VA hospital setup currently is, because anytime the government mandates or controls anything, it ends up costing 10x as much for 10% of the service.
And I only propose the no deductible, no co-pay ACA option because ACA is here. I don't like the system as it is, but it is here, we might as well use it for those who truly deserve it's benefits.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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They should get free ACA benefits with $0 deductibles, close the VA, and allow them to use the same services as everyone else without out of pocket cost. Benefits include husband and current spouse, and children under 18 and/or children enrolled full time in college.
This might accomplish multiple things. It would dissolve the screwed up VA system, give veterans the care they need, and possible entice more to enlist in service to acquire lifelong benefits.
At first blush, I don't have a problem with this.
I don't know much about the VA, but I immediately see 1 big problem.
I imagine the VA is specialized for war wounds and injuries. I'm not sure that the typical private hospital is prepared to handle that, or the long-term recovery. There are a lot of advantages to having centralized facilities for specialized care. If we have to ask/demand that every hospital or every territory have staff and equipment for war-trauma, it might get extremely costly and inefficient.
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JC
Congress found money to fight the war while the deficit was soaring towards $1 Trillion. They passed enormous spending bills for the war. They quickly found $700 Billion for banks while revenues were falling off a cliff and the deficit was ballooning.
Now, we have revenues surging. Corporate profits and the stock market at all-time highs. The deficit is cut in half. And we can't afford this?
that was a point I tried to make earlier in this thread..
They can always seem to find money for war, but there never seems to be enough for the warriors
That has to stop being the case. we can't keep sending kids into battle then toss them out with trash when it's time to get and keep them healthy both in body and mind.
We send them into hell, then bring them back to a different kinda hell that we can but don't correct.
There hasn't been a President or congress that has spent any time trying to fix this. except in the press. Talking about doing something, but never really doing something/anything of any value.
To level blame on one more than any other is fruitless. they are ALL TO BLAME.
Let me say this clearly, Veterans health is one topic that should NEVER be politicized.
It's bad enough that politics create wars and that's what gets them into this mess, we can't allow politics to make it worse.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I and many, many other Vets have advocated such a program for years ! .. How simple and so much more cost effective for the tax payer .. All we are takingabout here is the Medical... Lets see I can go to visit a Doc at Wade Park VA ( here in Cleveland ) or the Cleveland Clinic .. Yea thats a real tough decision !
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Yet you blamed 50+ years of mismanagment at the VA on one Obama appointee! LOL
And rather than say that FIRST, you decided to go with the "He inherited a mess from Bush" response..
Every President inherits a host of problems when he takes office.. from that point he owns them and it is his job to fix them.. Still trying to figure out which ones are getting fixed...
I know you have some sort of bone to pick with me or you just don't like me because of my opinions. You follow me around replying negatively to my posts everywhere. I can deal with that NP. But when I write a post and you misquote me. Tsk Tsk.
So.... yes, every president inherits a host problems. Not every president inherits two wars though. I didn't mention or blame GWB for anything. By mentioning the inherited wars shouldn't be taken as a negative or a slam on GWB.. But I understand the super sensitivity on that around here now. 
My point was, more soldiers are surviving serious injuries then ever before in these wars. We now have all these high tech mash units in the field that help bring our soldiers home alive. And we all know this is a great thing. Still it's a fact that this is creating extreme pressure on VA hospitals, all during a time of huge budget cuts caused by congress with the sequestration. Military families are hurting the most from this and our do nothing congress isn't doing anything. You know, like their jobs.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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I imagine the VA is specialized for war wounds and injuries. I'm not sure that the typical private hospital is prepared to handle that, or the long-term recovery. There are a lot of advantages to having centralized facilities for specialized care. If we have to ask/demand that every hospital or every territory have staff and equipment for war-trauma, it might get extremely costly and inefficient.
Go into any VA clinic/ hospital and you will find the vast majority are the elderly .
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I know you have some sort of bone to pick with me or you just don't like me because of my opinions.
I do disagree with quite a few of your opinions but I look at each one individually... As for you personally, I have nothing against you.
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You follow me around replying negatively to my posts everywhere.
You greatly exaggerate our relationship.. I have neither the time nor the desire to follow any posters around.
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I didn't mention or blame GWB for anything. By mentioning the inherited wars shouldn't be taken as a negative or a slam on GWB..
Sorry, when you referenced the wars that "were illegal and based on lies", I assumed you meant that as a negative and a bit of a slam.....
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My point was, more soldiers are surviving serious injuries then ever before in these wars. We now have all these high tech mash units in the field that help bring our soldiers home alive. And we all know this is a great thing. Still it's a fact that this is creating extreme pressure on VA hospitals, all during a time of huge budget cuts caused by congress with the sequestration. Military families are hurting the most from this and our do nothing congress isn't doing anything. You know, like their jobs.
I agree 100%.
yebat' Putin
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I'm lost on what you think I originally proposed, and I was only referring to the hospital portion of Veteran Affairs, not all the death and disability benefits and payments.
In my proposal (which is far from perfect), basically they get everything the VA hospitals offer, but get it by going to the same doctors and hospitals everyone else goes to, but they get their ACA card (For lack of a better term) and have no co-pay or deductible. No services are being denied them and they aren't sitting around waiting on the government the tell them when they can go.
Now mind you that isn't to say that the ACA doesn't eventually become a national version of what the VA hospital setup currently is, because anytime the government mandates or controls anything, it ends up costing 10x as much for 10% of the service.
And I only propose the no deductible, no co-pay ACA option because ACA is here. I don't like the system as it is, but it is here, we might as well use it for those who truly deserve it's benefits.
Well, I reckon I was thinking that if you take away the medical portion from the VA, they wouldn't have a need for as many facilities as they have. In fact, most all of them would be able to be closed... that would be a massive downsizing of the VA, which I am imagining would lead to the eventual dissolution of them as I could see their remaining (now largely simply fiscal) duties being passed onto other departments within the Gov't.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The White House has stood behind Shinseki amid calls for him to resign. President Obama announced Wednesday he is assigning his close adviser Rob Nabors to the VA to work on a review focused on policies for patient safety rules and the scheduling of patient appointments. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/15/shinseki-va-testimony-watchdog/
GO BROWNS!
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The White House has stood behind Shinseki amid calls for him to resign. President Obama announced Wednesday he is assigning his close adviser Rob Nabors to the VA to work on a review focused on policies for patient safety rules and the scheduling of patient appointments.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/15/shinseki-va-testimony-watchdog/
Typical government protocol... when something isn't working, use it as a reason to give your friend a job and throw more money at studying it.. not fixing it, just studying it.
yebat' Putin
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The White House has stood behind Shinseki amid calls for him to resign. President Obama announced Wednesday he is assigning his close adviser Rob Nabors to the VA to work on a review focused on policies for patient safety rules and the scheduling of patient appointments.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/15/shinseki-va-testimony-watchdog/
Typical government protocol... when something isn't working, use it as a reason to give your friend a job and throw more money at studying it.. not fixing it, just studying it.
Isn't that just a load of Bull.. the thing is, no matter who's in the White House, it's the same ole same ole. Nothing EVER seems to change. We do get a few cosmetic changes but essentially it's always the same story wrapped in different paper.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Having playing hot potato with these pricks back in the dark ages,I discovered the secret to the VA,patience.
The Va has it,because they know that all of their problems are eventually going to,shall we say,die off.Most a lot sooner than others.
With the wars winding down soon there will be fewer vets entering the system than leaving it,than the numbers will even themselves out.This will allow some future president to proclaim he has fixed the Va mess.
So you guys can save all your energy and pontifications,this baby's going to get taken care of.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Having playing hot potato with these pricks back in the dark ages,I discovered the secret to the VA,patience.
The Va has it,because they know that all of their problems are eventually going to,shall we say,die off.Most a lot sooner than others.
With the wars winding down soon there will be fewer vets entering the system than leaving it,than the numbers will even themselves out.This will allow some future president to proclaim he has fixed the Va mess.
So you guys can save all your energy and pontifications,this baby's going to get taken care of.
The mere thought that that is true disgusts me.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Having playing hot potato with these pricks back in the dark ages,I discovered the secret to the VA,patience.
The Va has it,because they know that all of their problems are eventually going to,shall we say,die off.Most a lot sooner than others.
With the wars winding down soon there will be fewer vets entering the system than leaving it,than the numbers will even themselves out.This will allow some future president to proclaim he has fixed the Va mess.
So you guys can save all your energy and pontifications,this baby's going to get taken care of.
I have never been involved with a VA except to the extent that I have been involved with some renovation projects at their facilities. I believe it is like every other government agency.. at it's core you have doctors and nurses who really want to do a good job and help people.. above them are a host of bureaucrats who make that virtually impossible.
Your post is very inciteful.. and sadly probably very accurate.
yebat' Putin
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The White House has stood behind Shinseki amid calls for him to resign. President Obama announced Wednesday he is assigning his close adviser Rob Nabors to the VA to work on a review focused on policies for patient safety rules and the scheduling of patient appointments.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/15/shinseki-va-testimony-watchdog/
Typical government protocol... when something isn't working, use it as a reason to give your friend a job and throw more money at studying it.. not fixing it, just studying it.
Actually, the government protocol is to throw a lot of money at the problem and declare it fixed. The same thing has happened with Social Security, Welfare, obummercare, and many other programs. They are not fixing anything, they are delaying the problem while crowing their 'accomplishments' for votes.
Here's an idea for a fix, instead of taking money from people for Social Security, Medicare, obummercare, and other similar government programs, why not give tax breaks to those that can prove they are saving and investing for retirement, health care, emergencies like unemployment or natural disasters, and letting all those that don't live under the government institutions. We all know what you get with the government institutions, and that should be incentive enough to save.
As for the VA, get rid of the bureaucrats that run the system, their bonuses and incentives, and let veterans run the system. Let the veterans being served the ability to select the administrators of the system, instead of the typical appointees that are placed there for being friends of the federal administration in power. Use a merit system for bonuses if bonuses are to be given, not the 'we're giving bonuses to stimulate the economy' or 'my political donors need their payoff' or 'we're giving bonuses because they make people happy' system they seem to be using now. Hell, they gave bonuses to IRS employees that spent the majority of their work days watching porn.
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
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This isn't really VA related but it's in keeping with the theme of the thread and there really isn't another good thread to put it in and it's not worthy of it's own so I'm putting it here... and "Big Banks" could be replaced with a lot of other things as well... 
yebat' Putin
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The problems with the VA have been around along time and are not really do to any particular president or even Secretary of Veteran Affairs. The problems with the VA arise from being a federal bureaucracy.
Large bureaucracies are notoriously inefficient and federal agencies are staffed with members of the federal civil service unions which make it difficult to fire or discipline poorly performing employees!
The VA's problems are not the Presidents failing (Obama, Bush or any other) nor the Secretary of VA. The problems are systemic and won't be totally resolved until the VA is reformed and that will require an act of Congress and we all know how great Congress is at acting.
Interesting point. Anyone following my post on the other board knows I'm not a big liberal Democrat fan BUT during the Clinton administration, 1995-2000, about a third of the VA medical facilities were closed, about 10,000 bureaucrats were let go and the VA health care improved a huge amount ON THE SAME BUDGET.
Cut the government deadwood and get healthier should be the motto!
You see how big government screwed up the veterans healthcare, what do you think is going to happen when it runs a much bigger and more complicated program like Obamacare. It gives me the willys.
Last edited by TXFAN; 05/16/14 01:44 PM.
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Isn't "cooking" the books a Federal violation? Where is Eric Holder?
GO BROWNS!
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Isn't "cooking" the books a Federal violation? Where is Eric Holder?
Getting a paycheck while ignoring his job. Where else would he be?
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Isn't "cooking" the books a Federal violation? Where is Eric Holder?
He picks and chooses what laws he wants to enforce.
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Legend
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Isn't "cooking" the books a Federal violation? Where is Eric Holder?
He's in the kitchen
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Isn't "cooking" the books a Federal violation? Where is Eric Holder?
He's in the kitchen
Nah, he's the crooked cop that's working for the criminals.
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