DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon Faces Year-Long Suspension Part 2

Lose respect over medicinal Marijuana? Well I guess its that Northwest living.

I'm not going to go into the pros n cons of Marijuana - like memory loss and stripping away ambitions and drive. Then again probably any medicinal pain medication would do that. Although not the demon of Refer Madness...Marijuana isn't this miracle drug either...lets face the facts people take it to get high.

Ignorant on the medicinal use? Yes, I am guilty all us East Coast people here is for Cancer...ehhh I would think the player should focus on beating the Cancer and not playing football. On a Back Injury with pain which can be easily falsified. Should he be playing with displaced Discs? I don't think so. Go ask Steinbach or for that matter Paul Zuk. That was the brunt of my statement. For most of the Chronic Pain that Medicinal Marijuana - AGAIN not the BS crap of 50% or more getting the Medicinal Marijuana cards and have no purpose other than getting HIGH...I would expect them to be out of football.

Is there pain killing drugs administered to football players as they heal. Yes but not of the MIND ALTERING kind. Is there some highly addictive pain killers...YES, Actually I recently suffered a personal loss (cousin) due to Oxycodeine??? But I'm not sure they are given to players on game day I think they get the local pain killers especially I read all the time of a shot being administered so they can play through the pain. I assume like the local they give people in surgery.

Don't be too quick to spit on me in disgust like this is some crusade. My statement was simple.

Cataracts...well maybe he shouldn't be catching passes if he has cataracts.
Blood thinner - well maybe he should be getting hit with damaging blows if he's on blood thinners.

That was my claim...not some crusade on the good or bad of medicinal Marijuana...do I think a big number of west coasters ABUSE it with fake ailments - come on we both know that is the case.

jmho

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Whats going to happen when a player is issued a medical marijuana card for whatever reason, then he fails a drug test. He legally smoked weed (a prescribed medicine) and now faces repercussions from the league. Trust me its going to happen.

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The same thing that is currently happening to Robert Mathis...

Just Clicking

When will they make some kind of determination on Gordon? Anyone got an idea?

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns coach Mike Pettine said Tuesday that Josh Gordon's looming suspension is impacting the club's preparations for the season.

"There's certainly a level of frustration because we've known the news for so long," Pettine told the Bull and Fox on radio partner 92.3 The Fan. "It's just a holding pattern and I understand that the league has a process that they have to go through and there's other things that they're dealing with and we respect that. But at the same time it is difficult because it really will affect our preparation for the season.''

He said the club has met about it and "we're prepared for all of the eventualities, but the waiting is difficult."

Gordon, who's facing an indefinite ban for at least his third violation of the league's substance abuse policy, participated in individual drills Tuesday but was held out of 11-on-11s.

Pettine acknowledged that Gordon sometimes doesn't hustle as much as he should in practice. Sports Illustrated's Greg Bedard made the same observation when he visited camp last summer, but then-offensive coordinator Norv Turner disagreed.

"It is something we've talked about and from what I understand he's made some improvement, but it is a work in progress," Pettine said. "I'm a big believer in quality of reps versus quantity of reps. If I'm a player and I know that I'm going to be out there for 40 full-speed team snaps I may have a tendency to pace myself.

"There still needs to be improvement there but we're aware of it."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._medium=twitter

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Pettine acknowledged that Gordon sometimes doesn't hustle as much as he should in practice. Sports Illustrated's Greg Bedard made the same observation when he visited camp last summer, but then-offensive coordinator Norv Turner disagreed.

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LOL,, then last year he went out and was the best receiver in the NFL.. funny.

Pain killers give you a high. And it's a crappy high that you crash hard on. NFL players don't have an off switch. They work in a violent atmosphere. Many can't shut it off. They go home and take it out on their families. When a puff may chill them out a bit. If it's ok for the league to pump pain killers, muscle relaxers and such into a player. It should be ok for a player to choose pot to take care of their issues instead. It's not as addictive, and it is a pain killer, it also helps with migraines that many players suffer from, because of concussions. Ignorance on this subject has ran it's course over the years and now it's becomming legal. The NFL needs to change their policies on it ASAP.

I think the punishment for failing drug tests due to marijuana is a little harsh. Suspensions should definitely be in order, but a year long? naw..

still trying to figure out how Ray Rice gets to play...

Hall of Fame WR Cris Carter on Josh Gordon's substance use: "It's obvious that it's more important to him than anything else''

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/06/hall_of_fame_wr_cris_carter_on.html

Frankly, I don't like that article, because it assumes that all players who fail drug tests are the same.

Gordon hasn't failed tests for cocaine. If Carter had stopped at pot, he almost certainly wouldn't have had the life and career issues he did.

I believe that Gordon's problems are social. He hangs with people who don't give a damn about his career, and who give him "bad advice" as far as getting high. If he had just abstained from smoking for 2 weeks prior to the initial announced tests, he would have been fine. Instead he smoked it up, and got in trouble, I think that it's a "hanging with the wrong people" and frankly, intelligence problem, than some serious drug problem.

I have read so much on this subject lately, and I have started to amend my original stand.

I'm not going to smoke the stuff, but I don't think that the NFL, for example, has to test players at a standard 3 times more stringent than airline pilots do. They don't have to test at a level 10 times more stringent (IIRC) than the IOC does. I don't necessarily think that they should stop testing, but they should relax the standards to reflect the realities of today's world. I read something along the lines of 1 joint in the 2 week period prior to an NFL test could result in a positive test. Really? We blow up a guy's career over 1 joint. That's basically the level we're talking about.

Here are some counterpoints to the pot argument.

Time for Roger Goodell and NFL to get real about players' marijuana use - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jaso...s-marijuana-use

Enough with the NFL's Reefer Madness already. It needs to stop.

I fully realize that nothing of significance changes in this league without a fight between the league and its union, but the fact that lighting up a joint is dealt with in a draconian fashion, while domestic abuse punishment is often meted out in a far-less severe manner, is just one of many incongruous corollaries to the NFL's weed policy.

At a time when the government's approach to pot is taking a dramatic turn, and the drug is being increasingly legalized to some degree or another in state after state, for young stars in their prime like the Browns' Josh Gordon and the Cardinals' Daryl Washington to both be potentially missing all of next season, if not longer, for using marijuana, is ludicrous (now, if you want to kick Washington out of the league for 2014 for other transgressions, you won't get an argument out of me).

This is getting ridiculous.

The penalties are far too severe, seeming to hearken back to a bygone time when stricter federal mandatory minimums for drug possession of any kind were all the rage. The times, they are a changin'-- no matter which side of this issue you are on, and on Friday alone the House passed an amendment restricting the DEA from targeting medical marijuana operations in states where it is legal; a bill that was backed by bipartisan support.

Truth is, over time more and more NFL players will be playing in states where it is not illegal to use pot, and, here's a newsflash, a large number of NFL players use it. Here's another newsflash -- so do a large number of pro athletes in other sports, and so do a large number of accountants, and plumbers and computer programmers, and, well, you get the picture.

Oh yeah, and I dare say an owner or two has dabbled with the wacky weed a time or two. And a coach or two. And a general manager or two. And I get the counterargument -- don't be stupid enough to get caught, players know when they are going to be tested by and large (that is unless or until they enter the drug program, when the testing becomes all-encompassing), so just don't get caught. But anyone who doesn't think that marijuana use is part of the NFL culture is kidding themselves.

It's a drug of choice to help relieve pain, escape the rigors of the game, and compared to the litany of painkillers that teams will gladly distribute via pill or injection, that will wreak havoc with one's liver and kidneys and god knows what else, it's seen by many, many players as a healthier alternative.

These are players asked to perform quasi-super-human feats every week, risking health and limb to do so. Are we really going to be hypocritical enough, at a time when the nationwide views on this drug are changing, to pretend they might not need a little somethin', somethin' to help them get through those six days before they go back on stage?

So, is it really better for the NFL to make an example out of Gordon or Brandon Browner or Trent Williams or Ricky Williams or any of the hundreds of players who have served lengthy suspensions because of the drug? Or should all parties come to the conclusion that staying the hell out of players' bongs, and just saying no to marijuana testing might just make more sense?

Should the competitive balance of games, and in some cases seasons, be swayed this dramatically because players are using a drug that states are looking more and more to tap into as a tax-revenue source? Should players be losing millions and millions of dollars for using a drug that is not a performance-enhancer, that they are using recreationally. Or would a don't ask/don't tell approach be the way to go? Players agree they keep it the hell away from any stadium or team facility and the league agrees to stay out of their pot stashes. If a player gets arrested for distribution or possession of large amount of pot, let his discipline come under the personal conduct policy, as would any arrest. Otherwise, extend outreach and counseling to players the league believes may be habitual users, but scrap this current policy that is unduly punitive in nature.

"It's getting ridiculous," said a long-time NFL personnel executive who told me he has been in private meetings in the past where his owner admitted using the drug occasionally. "In next five years it could be legal in the entire country, and the NFL is behind the times. This is like prohibition. Didn't they think any of the athletes were drinking back then? You don't think George Halas wasn't hitting the whiskey during prohibition? Get the hell out of here. "Marijuana, it kills the pain; it helps these guys calm their nerves down. It's probably more positive on the medical end than the negative. This is stupid. I can't take it anymore. It has to change, it's just a matter of time. The NFL needs to step up and say this is stupid. I know owners have smoked pot. (Colts owner Jim) Irsay hasn't been suspended yet for what he did, and that's worse than smoking pot. Let's just be honest and have an honest policy. The politics are changing. The policy needs to be overhauled."

Take a look at the NHL, for instance, a league that anyone must admit most closely approximates the NFL in terms of it being a violent, collision sport, where players routinely endure all types of extreme measures to be able to return to games. The league tests for marijuana, but it is not a part of the league's suspension protocol -- only performance-enhancing drugs are.

So the league and the union are aware of what players are putting in their bodies, but that data is compiled to then mutually extend help and treatment, without taking players off rosters and away from their teams. Seems plenty reasonable to me. The NBA will discipline players ... but not nearly in the manner in which NFL players are routinely suspended a quarter of the season, half of a season or, in many cases, an entire season, because of pot. The basketball league requires three failed tests before a player gets an initial five-game suspension. That's five of 82 games, which would equate to a .975 of a game suspension in the NFL (so essentially it would equal one missed NFL game, one missed paycheck).

And that's after what amounts to four failed tests, remember, in basketball. After that first suspension, NBA players will subsequently be suspended "five games longer than his immediately-preceding suspension for violating the Marijuana Program," according to their CBA with the league.

In the NFL the punishment is generally a quarter of the season, then half a season for a second offense, and then a year, though, of course, things are open to negotiation (as with Gordon missing four paychecks last year for his pot suspension, but missing just two actual games).

So, well, if things are this nebulous and free-flowing, why not eliminate it entirely? Or alter its scope greatly. I've been having discussions along these lines for years with players and agents and front office executives, and, in the past few years many more seem open to scrapping the current drug plan.

Commissioner Roger Goodell sent his trial balloon during the season, making comments that seem to at least broach the possibility of reviewing the policy based on changing pot laws across the nation, then, well -- whether influenced by owners or major corporate sponsors or whatever else -- Goodell pretty much quashed that notion during his "State of the League" address prior to the Super Bowl. That was unfortunate.

Since then we've seen more young stars suffer the consequences of this foolish policy, and teams and coaches forced to scramble to prepare for football without them. Veteran player agent Peter Schaffer, who happens to live in Colorado, a state at the epicenter of the legalization movement, has been telling me for years about how heartily he believes the marijuana policy needs to change, with pot a viable alternative for coping with the full-body aches and pains that come from putting one's body on the line every Sunday.

In recent years, with the NFL urging its team doctors to curb the use of Toradol, a once-common pain-killing injection frequently given to players after games, Schaffer anticipated more use of marijuana, and that's not likely to change, antiquated suspension policy or not, with the drug serving as "alternative post-competition pain management," as he puts it.

"Toradol is a high-grade anti-inflammatory; it's not a pain medicine," Schaffer said. "It's a shot you take and you feel better for 24 hours. And because they're worried -- and probably rightfully so -- about Toradol and long-term health affects, you don't want to be giving guys Toradol and 20 years later they have major issues. But the problem is you just can't bury your head in the sand and say, 'We got rid of Toradol,' and then give the players no alternative pain relief. You still need to have a post-game pain relief medication and an alternative. That's the reality. You have to have a suitable alternative for the players, because otherwise they will turn to what they did in the '50s and '60s which is alcohol, and we know that's not good for you with drinking and driving, and we know that alcohol is highly addictive.

"And marijuana is becoming increasingly socially accepted in many states and medially accepted. And who knows what we're going to find in 10 years or 20 years or whatever, but right now it does not seem to have the adverse medical problems that alternative pain medications have. In the past week we just had one of our best offensive players and one of our best defensive players suspended for a year for this, how does that make the game better? How does that make the game better to punish them for that, when in Colorado half the state is doing it?

"How does it make sense to have some of our best players not playing, not because they're getting arrested or doing anything to hurt anybody, but because they are using marijuana? I don't smoke marijuana at all, and I'm not condoning or advocating for it, but I'm saying if it's a suitable alternative pain medication we need to consider decriminalizing it within the league."

I'm not a pot user, either, though I have no issue with those who partake, and I'm not trying to parent anyone's children or impose my ideals on others. But for this group of adults who play this game for a living, the allure of marijuana will always be there, and it's folly to pretend things aren't changing outside the game as well.

If nothing else, the thresholds for a positive test should be raised substantially (and, if the NFL and NFLPA can ever agree on the final piece of HGH testing and a new global drug policy, the amounts required to trigger a "positive" test very likely would in fact go up. Right now football players are being held to a bizarre standard -- 15 nanograms per milliliter, which constituted a failed test.

"For air traffic controllers, it's three-times higher," Schaffer said. "For WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency), the cutoff level is 175 -- that's for Olympic athletes -- which is over 10 times greater than what we deal with. People who are landing planes can be at 50 nanograms, but an NFL player hurting on Sunday night are at 15? For personal use in your home? I don't get it. I've tried to push the union to raise the threshold for a long time, and I've tried to push the league office to push the threshold higher. I've advocated for this for over a decade. "To me it's a win-win situation -- not suspending your best players for doing something everyone else is doing. If you're that worried about Josh Gordon, get him help. Don't penalize him. And if teams are worried that pot makes players less aggressive, then, hey, that player will eventually get cut if that's the case. But the way this policy is put together now doesn't make sense anyone."

Couldn't have said it better myself. Hopefully, it changes drastically. The sooner the better.

Yes, the penalty for weed is too much in the NFL, but Gordon did this to himself, over and over and over again.

He's ruining his football career.

Some people never learn.

JC

Question:

So did this guy test positive for pot or did he miss a scheduled test. I've heard both things.

All the reports I've seen have been general like "violated substance abuse policy".

I find it curious that this situation is taking this long on the appeal process. The reported violation came out over a month ago, yet other players are dropping like flies using pot and being suspended for it....

....It may not mean much at all but this the ongoing lack of a resolution seems odd.

Yeah .... but some people are just stupid.

We don't know any of the specifics .... heck, right now we're just guessing as to what Gordon (and every other player suspended) was (and/or will be) suspended for. I understand why the NFL doesn't comment on the specifics of a drug test, but it would really help those who tested for pot, especially at some ridiculously low level, in the area of public relations. I look at the suspensions handed out, like the indefinite year long ban for Washington and Blackmon....... and compare that to Hill, who received a 6 game suspension for his 3rd drug suspension thus far in his 2 years in the NFL. (though at least the 1st was for PED)

Some players get blasted, but we have no idea what the details of each player's suspension are. Each player releases his side of things .... but we have no idea if a player is suspended for pot ..... or for cocaine ...... or for heroin ..... or any other drugs. The player says one thing .... but that doesn't necessarily have to be the truth.

long article that says the same as my kids when they got in trouble. well all my friends do so.......

when your kids did something wrong and said that what did you say to them?

I really don't care what kind of drugs people do. hey if they are dumb enough to do them well...... but this whole everybody does it excuse is stupid.

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We as fans have to move on, as does the team. But the calls for him to be cut are pure knee jerk reactions. It's lunacy.

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Agreed, Monetary wise it doesn't make any sense. Why would we? He's ridiculously talented and under his rookie contract. We don't pay him anything until he starts playing again (in my understanding).

I think he has like two years left. If he is suspended for the season, I know it'll just roll over to next year. I'm not sure if it's a partial season suspension though, and what that would mean.

Gordon on the bike today with a hamstring.

I wish Gordon was hooked on cocaine. It only stays in your system for about three days. He could practically do it daily for his entire career without being busted. Or maybe he should just be a drunk.

Enough of the pot prohibition. It's rediculous. In another decade we'll hopefully be looking back on this time like we do alcohol's prohibition years.

'Mike Pettine noticed Josh Gordon doesn’t go all-out'

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/11/mike-pettine-noticed-josh-gordon-doesnt-go-all-out/

Posted by Darin Gantt on June 11, 2014, 8:59 AM EDT

Wide receiver Josh Gordon is still practicing with the Browns while he awaits word on what could be a year-long suspension.

So it might be natural that he’s not practicing with the most urgency.

Browns coach Mike Pettine told 92.3 The Fan that Gordon didn’t always exert himself fully in practice.

“It is something we’ve talked about and from what I understand he’s made some improvement, but it is a work in progress,” Pettine said, via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “I’m a big believer in quality of reps versus quantity of reps. If I’m a player and I know that I’m going to be out there for 40 full-speed team snaps I may have a tendency to pace myself.

“There still needs to be improvement there but we’re aware of it.”

Of course, there’s a chicken-egg quality there too. If Gordon cared enough about his craft to push himself fully, he might not continue to put himself in positions that lead to suspensions.

Pettine also admitted it was a bit frustrating getting ready for the season with the Gordon suspension hanging over their heads.

“There’s certainly a level of frustration because we’ve known the news for so long,” Pettine said. “It’s just a holding pattern and I understand that the league has a process that they have to go through and there’s other things that they’re dealing with and we respect that. But at the same time it is difficult because it really will affect our preparation for the season.”

Not having one of your best players tends to do that.


(end)


P.S. I've heard this before about him. After years and years of smoking pot, it tends to burn one out (lack of motivation).... That just might just be the reason, or at least one of them.

That's a very funny stereotype. Bankers, lawyers and many successful, motivated people smoke weed. If people actually knew all of the very successful, motivated people who smoke weed, such absurd comments would not be made.

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If people actually knew all of the very successful, motivated people who smoke weed, such absurd comments would not be made.

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you must have a list made up?

There is nothing safe or innocent with pot. It alter's your brain's chemistry to literally make you think nothing matters and that none of life's problems effect you personally. This is why most pot users feel it's a safe drug even though it most definitely isn't.

Pot is a euphoric drug that can be extremely addicting for many. That feeling of being disconnected from everything and that nothing matters is very addictive. Pot can cause depression and panic attacks while on it and definitely can cause paranoia and dementia as a person comes out of that euphoric state and suddenly has to deal with all the problems of their life.

The number one thing you hear a continual pot user say."Don't worry about it. It's no big deal. We don't have to do anything about it. It'll be ok so just relax man." They especially say those things in defending their use of pot. People smoking pot tend to lose that fire in them that motivates them to get things done with urgency. That's because pot alters a users brain physically to be more lethargic and to not associate with its problems. Pot users watch thier life go to hell with a smile on their face because, "It's not MY problem. Just relax man." I have seen it over and over again. None of them are even able to think of it as a problem or much of anything else after a while.

You don't have to take my word on it. Try reading a medical study on the usuage of pot. A real one and not a newspaper or magazine article. Here is a link to one if you can handle reading it:

Pot Kills Your Cognitive Ability

Time to let the smoke clear and to wake up people. Pot destroys your brain.

Am I reading that right? 1997? LMAO, That entire post, omg dude are you serious?

Alcohol kills your brains and impairs you far worse.

McDonalds is way worse for you than pot.

Just stop soaking up everything the government feeds you.

This guy talks like pot is some quality pain medicine.

BS

I smoked daily for 15 years when I was much younger and I don't remember any pain relieving quality at all. (I know, before someone else says it: smoking everyday for 15 years it's a wonder I remember anything hahaha).

But seriously, has anyone who's smoked pot noticed any pain relieving aspect to it at all?!

It might take your mind off of it but the guy in this article talks like it's a viable alternative to narcotic pain relievers and that's just a load of crap.

Personally, I think it should be legalized. Plenty of people get a relaxing buzz from alcohol when their workday is done. Me, I didn't like being drunk. So I smoked a little weed for the same effect.

I agree with everything the author says other than equating it with a narcotic pain reliever.

If it were legal, I would drink maybe once a month. Plus zero calories.

Maybe the fix to take might be to speak with THE NFL, not about pain-relieving properties, but we put it out there that it goes quite a ways towards preventing and treating concussions, and the lawsuits in the pipeline.
All are home free; the homeopathic route.
Suspect about one week to put it in and it will make headaches disappear.