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Crack reporting here... Quote:
All signs point to Manziel starting Week One
Posted by Mike Florio on June 13, 2014, 3:02 PM EDT
Congratulations, Johnny Football a/k/a Johnny Cleveland a/k/a Johnny Vegas a/k/a Johnny Padres. Not only have you leapfrogged future Hall of Famer (not really) Tyler Thigpen but you also have narrowed the gap with Brian Hoyer.
What a surprise.
Just a few weeks ago, Browns G.M. Ray Farmer declared that Hoyer had a “substantial margin” over Manziel. Now, coach Mike Pettine says Hoyer’s lead isn’t insurmountable.
Or course it isn’t. Because barring a horrendous performance from Manziel during training camp or the preseason, he’ll start Week One in Pittsburgh.
His competition, after all, is Brian Hoyer. A career backup who at one point during the 2013 offseason was unemployed and who started three games before tearing an ACL last year. With a new coach and a new G.M., neither of whom have any loyalty to or investment in Hoyer, it makes plenty of sense that he’ll no longer be the starter.
Then there’s the fact that the Browns traded up from No. 26 to No. 22 to get Manziel. If Hoyer’s the guy, why grab Manziel?
Since 2008, the presumption has become that a first-round quarterback will start right away. Helping shift that approach may have been the 2007 Browns, who opted to go with career backup Derek Anderson instead of first-round rookie Brady Quinn after Charlie Frye was dumped following a Week One debacle. With Anderson knowing that he’d inevitably be benched for Quinn, Anderson didn’t worry about losing the job he’d never keep.
Which allowed him to play well enough to keep the job for the rest of the year. And in turn to thrust the quarterback position deeper into the mess that it has been ever since.
Like other teams in recent seasons (and possibly like several teams this year), the Browns are trying to create the impression of an actual competition, which will create the impression that the rookie has actually achieved something and which may give him genuine confidence when the real games start.
Manziel, of course, doesn’t lack confidence. But he may be lacking a few teeth when the first defense he faces after Duke in the Chik-Fil-A Bowl belongs to the Steelers.
So when will the decision be made? Probably before the point at which Manziel would be thrust into preseason action behind the No. 2 offensive line, facing a No. 2 defense full of players hoping to make a positive impression on the coach by making a significant impression on Johnny Football.
So one, the fact that the GM and Coach keep saying he isn't the starter, is the REASON he's going to be the starter.. 
And oh my god Florio's need to make everything about the Steelers is almost pathetic..
Plus LOL at "teeth of the Steelers defense" ..Dentures?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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'All signs point to Manziel starting Week One' http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...partner=ya5nbcsPosted by Mike Florio on June 13, 2014, 3:02 PM EDT Congratulations, Johnny Football a/k/a Johnny Cleveland a/k/a Johnny Vegas a/k/a Johnny Padres. Not only have you leapfrogged future Hall of Famer (not really) Tyler Thigpen but you also have narrowed the gap with Brian Hoyer. What a surprise. Just a few weeks ago, Browns G.M. Ray Farmer declared that Hoyer had a “substantial margin” over Manziel. Now, coach Mike Pettine says Hoyer’s lead isn’t insurmountable. Or course it isn’t. Because barring a horrendous performance from Manziel during training camp or the preseason, he’ll start Week One in Pittsburgh. His competition, after all, is Brian Hoyer. A career backup who at one point during the 2013 offseason was unemployed and who started three games before tearing an ACL last year. With a new coach and a new G.M., neither of whom have any loyalty to or investment in Hoyer, it makes plenty of sense that he’ll no longer be the starter. Then there’s the fact that the Browns traded up from No. 26 to No. 22 to get Manziel. If Hoyer’s the guy, why grab Manziel? Since 2008, the presumption has become that a first-round quarterback will start right away. Helping shift that approach may have been the 2007 Browns, who opted to go with career backup Derek Anderson instead of first-round rookie Brady Quinn after Charlie Frye was dumped following a Week One debacle. With Anderson knowing that he’d inevitably be benched for Quinn, Anderson didn’t worry about losing the job he’d never keep. Which allowed him to play well enough to keep the job for the rest of the year. And in turn to thrust the quarterback position deeper into the mess that it has been ever since. Like other teams in recent seasons (and possibly like several teams this year), the Browns are trying to create the impression of an actual competition, which will create the impression that the rookie has actually achieved something and which may give him genuine confidence when the real games start. Manziel, of course, doesn’t lack confidence. But he may be lacking a few teeth when the first defense he faces after Duke in the Chik-Fil-A Bowl belongs to the Steelers. So when will the decision be made? Probably before the point at which Manziel would be thrust into preseason action behind the No. 2 offensive line, facing a No. 2 defense full of players hoping to make a positive impression on the coach by making a significant impression on Johnny Football. (end)
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I'm gonna guess it will actually be Hoyer starting, unless his knee turns out not to be 100%.
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Just got done reading this elsewhere and it has to be one of the dumbest articles I've ever read. . Remember this on Game 1, Hoyers starting barring injury, Guaranteed. If not they truly are stupid. . No way JFB is better then Hoyer at this point in time
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Another thing that drives me crazy
This:
"If Hoyer's the starter then why did they draft JFB" I'm sorry but this statement is Stupid and if you don't know why then so are you!! Plain and simple!!
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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In preseason, i expect both to get a start, both to get lots of playing time and Johny to win the compeition due to mobility, arm, leadership and jersey sells. Now hoyer has one hell of a quick release and NFL experience but that ACL is gonna take time he doesnt have a strong arm to begin with and he is gonna lose a lot of velocity until he gets his leg strength back up.
Now the kicker is gonna be how much time Johny puts into learning this playbook cause I can guarantee Hoyer will have every page memorized by the start of camp. The good thing for the Browns is that both have that competitive streak and want it. Its a win for Browns fans either way.
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The Jags spent the #3 overall pick on Bortles, and get "good idea" artices about letting him sit and starting Chad Henne..
We spend the 22 (and a 3rd) on JF and we're dumb because we sit him..
Kay..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
The Jags spent the #3 overall pick on Bortles, and get "good idea" artices about letting him sit and starting Chad Henne..
We spend the 22 (and a 3rd) on JF and we're dumb because we sit him..
Kay..
this was another point I was going to make. How come No One is complaining about Jacksonville!!!??
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Quote:
Quote:
The Jags spent the #3 overall pick on Bortles, and get "good idea" artices about letting him sit and starting Chad Henne..
We spend the 22 (and a 3rd) on JF and we're dumb because we sit him..
Kay..
this was another point I was going to make. How come No One is complaining about Jacksonville!!!??
Because ..... they have perennial All Pro Chad Henne? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I mean, I woulda taken Henne over what we had the last two years.. but that's really not about him...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
The Jags spent the #3 overall pick on Bortles, and get "good idea" artices about letting him sit and starting Chad Henne..
We spend the 22 (and a 3rd) on JF and we're dumb because we sit him..
Kay..
this was another point I was going to make. How come No One is complaining about Jacksonville!!!??
Probably because everyone agrees that Bortles will be a bust, so not playing him is the smartest move you could make 
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Bortles will need atleast one if not 2 years to develop. I still cant believe they took him at #3 overall.
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My point is that when they talk about Bortles, they say that the advantage he has is that the Jaguars already have Henne, that won't be rushed ...... but the Browns have Hoyer, yet many expect that Manziel should play from day 1.
I don't think that Henne is superior to Hoyer as a QB. I think that Henne has had more opportunities ..... but that's about it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think it has to do with how good Johnny is and how God-awful Blake Bortles is.
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Johnny still needs a lot of work.
He has yet to face a real NFL defense that has game-planned to stop him. He is reported to be locking onto receivers in camp. There are other issues as well.
We haven't even hit training camp though. Both he and Bortles have time to work on their weaknesses and develop strengths. Only time will tell which, or if either guy will become a capable NFL starter.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Bortles starts or doesnt start yawn. Johny Football farts and you have 20 reports sniffing and trying to determine what he had for breakfast. No matter what the Browns do, its gonna be wrong because wrong makes headlines.
No one gave a damn what Jaws had to say anymore until Jaws said Manziel was a 4th rounder. Wow, guess what Jaws comments was front page news. Now espn who had Jaws hid away has him out watching Johny throw the football and giving live updates.
The kid has a babe ruth following and no decision the Browns make will be the right one. That would be boring.
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Quote:
Bortles starts or doesnt start yawn. Johny Football farts and you have 20 reports sniffing and trying to determine what he had for breakfast. No matter what the Browns do, its gonna be wrong because wrong makes headlines.
No one gave a damn what Jaws had to say anymore until Jaws said Manziel was a 4th rounder. Wow, guess what Jaws comments was front page news. Now espn who had Jaws hid away has him out watching Johny throw the football and giving live updates.
The kid has a babe ruth following and no decision the Browns make will be the right one. That would be boring.
Right or wrong it is kind of nice turning on local sports radio, St. Louis, and hear something about the Browns. Ok, it is mostly Johnny Manziel. If you watch the NFL network, you get a daily Manziel report. I love seeing the ol'orange helmet. I guess my point is it is nice getting some attention.
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Quote:
Right or wrong it is kind of nice turning on local sports radio, St. Louis, and hear something about the Browns. Ok, it is mostly Johnny Manziel. If you watch the NFL network, you get a daily Manziel report. I love seeing the ol'orange helmet. I guess my point is it is nice getting some attention.
Now this i agree with. I don't live local to the Browns yet we're an ESPN headline all the time now. It really is kinda nice and it gets me excited, whether it's honest or not.
I do hope for the best with Brian Hoyer, but I did want us to draft Manziel, and I gotta say that I'm really excited to see him in action. IMO he should have won the Heisman again. Winston got it, but if I have to choose who I want on my team (Manziel or Winston) I would choose Manziel any day of the week.
I got a good feeling about him. I just think he'll figure out the NFL. He was the number 1 QB on my board, number 2 being Bridgewater. And where we got him makes it all that much better (plus another prob mid to early 1st round pick next year!)
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Like you, I was happy that we took Manziel where we did. I wanted a QB high in the draft, but the more I learned about the available candidates, the less thrilled I was with using the 4th overall pick on any of them. I really wanted us to grab our top guy though ..... and I think that we were able to do so, even at that lower spot.
Instead of taking Manziel at 4, we got a 1st and 4th next year, Gilbert, and still got Manziel at 22. That sure looks like a very nice job of drafting at this point in time.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No doubt. It almost makes Johnny a "Free Pick". Think how great it is going to be when Johnjny Football starts to stud out this year and we get to use those extra picks next year.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
I think it has to do with how good Johnny is and how God-awful Blake Bortles is.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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1 it's a shame Bernie is in chi town coaching bears quarterbacks. Bernie is stable enough to have a positive impact on our current quarterbacks.
2 My perfect scenario for this season is j football taking 0 snaps.
3 if the stats were correct, in his limited time, last year Brian Hoyer got rid of the ball quicker than any qb in the nfl. That doesn't make him Peyton, but it does make for a smart qb.
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j/c: I believe of the top three qbs, Bortles was the one who needed to sit for a year or two before playing. He was the least developed in terms of reading defenses and coverages and going through his progressions. I think those are huge factors in the success of a QB, yet he was still taken way ahead of the other two. I think the NFL is almost as infatuated w/a guy's physical stature as most fans are. I really don't care who starts for the Browns this year. I am not going to get in one camp or another and I really hope that doesn't become an issue again. We don't need a Hoyer camp and a Manziel camp. It seems that most fans always seem to need to be in one camp or another, though. Heck, I believe there were even Weeden camps and McCoy camps on this board.  I hope that they play the most productive QB. Start Hoyer if he plays better. To heck w/starting your first round draft choice like when the FO and coaching staff handed Weeden the job a few years ago. If Manziel is playing better, he should start and forget this nonsense that he needs a year or two to develop. Play the better QB. Simple.
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Quote:
My point is that when they talk about Bortles, they say that the advantage he has is that the Jaguars already have Henne, that won't be rushed ...... but the Browns have Hoyer, yet many expect that Manziel should play from day 1.
I don't think that Henne is superior to Hoyer as a QB. I think that Henne has had more opportunities ..... but that's about it.
A little off topic, but who thinks that Teddy Bridgewater will sit a year or two also?
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
Quote:
My point is that when they talk about Bortles, they say that the advantage he has is that the Jaguars already have Henne, that won't be rushed ...... but the Browns have Hoyer, yet many expect that Manziel should play from day 1.
I don't think that Henne is superior to Hoyer as a QB. I think that Henne has had more opportunities ..... but that's about it.
A little off topic, but who thinks that Teddy Bridgewater will sit a year or two also?
Dunno.
Minnesota has the best RB in the game, very good WRs, and a solid OL. They appear ready made to plug in a QB.
Now their defense on the other hand ...... needs some help.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Remember everybody saying we got "good value" with Quinn at 22 when several team had him rated as a mid rounder too?
Not saying that will happen with Manziel too, but he has serious bust potential. I would have been happier with the selection if Bridgewater was gone, but what's done is done now and I hope he studs out for the Browns.
That said, I am a little concerned with all the reports coming out indicating that he's not studying and not asking the right questions, especially because it was in every scouting report of him worth a damn, so it should not be a surprise to anyone, but he did say he would study hard right after the draft and I'm not getting the vfeeling he does that as of now. He has that "my way or highway" mentality and that can sour on people quickly, especially his teammates and coaches...much quicker than fans realize it. It will be hard for him to catch up to his image. He's becoming more and more a celebrity playing football than a footballer being a celebrity. Kinda like those model actresses, without the good looks, lol
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The reports I have see or heard has Pettine saying the kid is in the playbook.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
I am a little concerned with all the reports coming out indicating that he's not studying and not asking the right questions,
Me thinks your reading in the views that you want to believe rather than the real reports
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Quote:
Remember everybody saying we got "good value" with Quinn at 22 when several team had him rated as a mid rounder too?
Not saying that will happen with Manziel too, but he has serious bust potential. I would have been happier with the selection if Bridgewater was gone, but what's done is done now and I hope he studs out for the Browns.
That said, I am a little concerned with all the reports coming out indicating that he's not studying and not asking the right questions, especially because it was in every scouting report of him worth a damn, so it should not be a surprise to anyone, but he did say he would study hard right after the draft and I'm not getting the vfeeling he does that as of now. He has that "my way or highway" mentality and that can sour on people quickly, especially his teammates and coaches...much quicker than fans realize it. It will be hard for him to catch up to his image. He's becoming more and more a celebrity playing football than a footballer being a celebrity. Kinda like those model actresses, without the good looks, lol
I don't mean to be condescending, but we all need to relax when reading media reports on Manziel. Media will paint any picture to get face time. We're even seeing TMZ jumping on the band wagon. Pluto might be our only hope for a true scoop. Cabot might be ok depending who is pulling her strings. Grossi is still upset Farmer/Pettine passed on Watkins. I bet he well be the most negative. It is sad Grossi has some real football intelligence, but he'll write anything to get national attention.
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Whitner pretty much called him out on it, when he said:
"I think he appreciates that, but it's going to be up to him to do it, to get with the defensive coaches, to understand the ins and outs, the weaknesses of coverages, and I believe he can do it,'' said Whitner. "He's a pretty smart, savvy guy. I think he has all the intangibles and everybody looks at Aaron Rodgers as being just a dropback quarterback, but he's dangerous because he can use his feet to manipulate things and get open and buy a little time and then he's making a lot of big plays. Johnny has all of those intangibles. It's just going out there and doing it and learning it.''
He basically said: "just do it", which by simple deduction means that he isn't doing it as of now. Other nuggets were pretty direct about it when comparing Hoyer-Manziel. It's early and that's why Whitner was nice about it, kind of a backhand-complementing him and setting the bar high (Rodgers). But to me that read like a little slap on the back of the head. Considering the "stage" of offseason and the media attention Manziel draws, there was no reason at all to go there from a vet perspective, so I'm pretty sure he picked up something he didn't like to say it in the first place.
Every player will excuse a rookie QB struggling if they put in the work, but if they don't and struggle, you'll lose their confidence quickly, especially at QB. To me, what Whitner said went in that direction.
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A little off topic, but who thinks that Teddy Bridgewater will sit a year or two also?
I certainly don't think he'll sit for long, if at all. I'm not sure that Johnny Football will either. My reasoning with Bridgewater is pretty simple. They drafted Bridgewater knowing full well the strength of his arm, so they must be happy with that aspect.
One thing about Bridgewater, is that he is known for his ability to read D's, coverages and change the play at the line of scrimmage. This is probably one of the hardest aspects of the game rookie QB's have coming out of college.
I believe that gives Bridgewater a clear advantage in terms of the learning curve. I believe with the supporting cast he has in Minny, along with the factors I mentioned, he is probably in the best situation for a rookie QB to start early of this years draft class.
As for our QB situation, I pretty much agree with Vers. May the best man win. There's a lot of time between now and the regular season. For anyone to think that Johnny Football has had the time to even compete for the starting spot at this early juncture are only fooling themselves.
But there's a long way to go. IMO, to read anything into who will start the season at this point in time, is very pre-mature. The reports we are getting is how they are rated at this juncture, not in August. So for people to make any assumption based on such early reports aren't considering the road that lies ahead.
What we don't know is if we actually have a QB at all. Hoyer has a three game history and Johnny Football is a raw rookie. The jury is far from in on both of them. We certainly all hope for the best, but this far, hope is actually all we have.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Yeah that really tells a lot. Coach Pettine has already stated he's doing everything they ask and learning the playbook. But lets just keep reading between the lines
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Yeah, coache's ALWAYS tell the truth. That's why the term "coache's speak" was born
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I think Manziel, Teddy and Carr all end up starting and before the season is done Savage and Bortles will be playing.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,963
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,963 |
You are going to have to show me those reports that he's not into the playbook and film.. I haven't seen one.
I mean not one with any cred!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Not to mention TB will be in an Air Coryell system with loads and loads of talent. He's, imo, probably the person who is going to win OROY.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
You are going to have to show me those reports that he's not into the playbook and film.. I haven't seen one.
I mean not one with any cred!
https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/477153757923270657
Brian Hoyer asks Donte Whitner something about the defense, a look, a pressure EVERY day. Whitner said Manziel hasn't ever done that. Yet.
https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/477151601694498816
Pettine's advice to Manziel: "I think he shouldn’t concern himself so much w/ where Brian is, but where he is." And... "Get in his iPad."
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
Quote:
Quote:
You are going to have to show me those reports that he's not into the playbook and film.. I haven't seen one.
I mean not one with any cred!
https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/477153757923270657
Brian Hoyer asks Donte Whitner something about the defense, a look, a pressure EVERY day. Whitner said Manziel hasn't ever done that. Yet.
https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/477151601694498816
Pettine's advice to Manziel: "I think he shouldn’t concern himself so much w/ where Brian is, but where he is." And... "Get in his iPad."
Johnny Manziel takes refuge under table at card signings
Manziel used his left thumb to answer Boyd's questions â?? serious inquiries into whether Manziel was having fun at the premiere (thumbs up) and how studying the Browns playbook was going (thumbs down).
http://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/usatoday/article/9815599&usatref=sportsmod
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
You know what... I won't get into the speculations and the various this-n-thats, but I will say that I believe Pettine when he told the media, the fans, the world that there would be competition at every position and noone's spot was solid/for sure - and I believe he's doing JUST that. Unlike Chud who named Weeden starter before letting any competition unroll just b/c he "had to see what they had in Weeden" or other BS like that. Mike thus far seems to be a non-bs, straight up and little old fashioned kind of guy. I really respect that. Buster could legit keep his #2 corner role and honest-to-God, if it's because he's better than our top draft pick corner, then all the more respect for Mike for sticking to his guns and really putting the best players available out there. Anyhoo, sorry for the off-topic rant 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny football told to prepare as
a backup. This is not hollywood.
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