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I think that Manziel has the highest boom potential, and almost the highest bust potential of any QB in this draft.
One thing I don't think about him ..... but that crosses my mind about almost every other QB in this draft ... if that he could be a lifelong backup at best. I don't see him being a long term backup at all. He'll either be a star ..... or out of the league. I could see almost every other QB taken in this draft taking the Ponder/Gabbert path ...and wind up being a so-so QB who is never really good enough to be the answer as the starter. They all could wind up being guys who are just good enough to desperately need to be replaced. Manziel, I think that he either stars .... or busts spectacularly.
I do like some things that Manziel has going for him. He hides the ball very well. He has a plus arm, and can make every throw. Obviously he is a threat with his feet. He actually reminds me a little bit of Roethlisberger. Of course he's smaller, but I have seen him make DL and LB just flail, grabbing at nothing but air. I thin that he can succeed with the right type of package of plays and a strong run game. I think that we'll have that. I am intrigued to see how he winds up doing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You know what... I won't get into the speculations and the various this-n-thats, but I will say that I believe Pettine when he told the media, the fans, the world that there would be competition at every position and noone's spot was solid/for sure - and I believe he's doing JUST that. Unlike Chud who named Weeden starter before letting any competition unroll just b/c he "had to see what they had in Weeden" or other BS like that.
Mike thus far seems to be a non-bs, straight up and little old fashioned kind of guy. I really respect that. Buster could legit keep his #2 corner role and honest-to-God, if it's because he's better than our top draft pick corner, then all the more respect for Mike for sticking to his guns and really putting the best players available out there.
Anyhoo, sorry for the off-topic rant 
don't see the off-topic thing. think your wrong about chud though. I think right or wrong that he thought weeden was the best qb on the team. didn't see him starting mingo or McFadden did you. hes was trying to play what HE thought was the best.
I would like to know one thing about JFF though. why did he miss the first day of NFLPA Rookie Premiere? pretty sure he wasn't at browns OTAs so.......
Last edited by pblack18707; 06/15/14 04:33 PM.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I thought that I read that he skipped the first day of the rookie premiere to attend the final day of one of the OTA sessions.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I thought that I read that he skipped the first day of the rookie premiere to attend the final day of one of the OTA sessions.
Bridgewater “bummed” Rookie Premiere forced him to miss OTAs
Bridgewater isn’t the first player to say he’d rather work out than go to the Rookie Premiere. Two years ago, Bears receiver Alshon Jeffery said he wanted to skip the Rookie Premiere, prompting the NFL to confirm that the rules say players can’t be at the team facility when they’re supposed to be at the Rookie Premiere.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...m-to-miss-otas/
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Brian Hoyer asks Donte Whitner something about the defense, a look, a pressure EVERY day. Whitner said Manziel hasn't ever done that. Yet.
https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/477151601694498816
Pettine's advice to Manziel: "I think he shouldn’t concern himself so much w/ where Brian is, but where he is." And... "Get in his iPad."
I'm reading these comments, and do not see what you do. Context is everything, and it seems to me that you're on a fishing expedition to find anything to back your agenda.
Hoyer is ahead due to experience and time with the playbook. I don't believe Manzeil has the offense down good enough yet to be seeking advice from Whitner. Hoyer is a seasoned vet, Manzeil is a rookie with OTA's under his belt. I take Pettine's comments as looking at it the same way.
If and when Johnny masters the offense, then it will be time to do what Hoyer is doing. Until he masters it, he must take it a step at a time.
Last edited by E.Ryze19; 06/15/14 05:19 PM.
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Quote:
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I thought that I read that he skipped the first day of the rookie premiere to attend the final day of one of the OTA sessions.
Bridgewater “bummed” Rookie Premiere forced him to miss OTAs
Bridgewater isn’t the first player to say he’d rather work out than go to the Rookie Premiere. Two years ago, Bears receiver Alshon Jeffery said he wanted to skip the Rookie Premiere, prompting the NFL to confirm that the rules say players can’t be at the team facility when they’re supposed to be at the Rookie Premiere.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...m-to-miss-otas/
Manziel is one of more than 35 top rookies invited to the exclusive event, which began on Thursday and runs through Saturday, to learn the business of football. He will be joined by two of his Browns teammates, running back Terrance West, the club's third-round pick from Towson, and undrafted rookie Connor Shaw, the quarterback from South Carolina.
Shaw is one of five players who competed in the 2014 NFLPA Collegiate Bowl invited to the premiere.
The three had to miss Friday's voluntary organized team activities to attend the event, but with the blessing of the Browns. In fact, per rules of the collective bargaining agreement, any player invited to the event that doesn't attend is not permitted to practice with the team, attend meetings or even work out in the club's weight room.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/05/johnny_manziel_is_in_los_angel.html
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Chud is an offense guy, not sure he all that closely monitored the defense as he did the offense. Just as Pettine often admits about leaving much up to Kyle for our offense and etc, especially in relation to the QB.
Mingo was injured at the beginning of the season though. McFadden sucks. Weeden was given the bulk of the first team reps right form the start. Johnny here is riding hte #2's, same with Gilbert. Not saying I really hated Chud or anything, but I don't miss him and the heavy "players" coach he was. This staff didn't even WANT to give struggling Little a chance to even play here. Bess was canned. Both these guys Chud played with a religious passion (and I don't buy into the "we didn't have any other options" or as you said it "playing who he thought was the best", anyone who can at least catch was a better option than those two. If Chud truly believed in any of those, well I guess there is a reason he's an assistant now on another team.
Nevertheless, Chud is gone and so is Weeden and Leon McFadden won't likely make it here much longer with the crowded corner back group we have in Haden, Gilbert, Buster, Desir (who I hear is making some noise) and all the others.
As for JFF, I didn't even know he missed it. Curious now as' well...
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You are going to have to show me those reports that he's not into the playbook and film.. I haven't seen one.
I mean not one with any cred!
https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/477153757923270657
Brian Hoyer asks Donte Whitner something about the defense, a look, a pressure EVERY day. Whitner said Manziel hasn't ever done that. Yet.
https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/477151601694498816
Pettine's advice to Manziel: "I think he shouldn’t concern himself so much w/ where Brian is, but where he is." And... "Get in his iPad."
I'd seen both of those, but that doesn't prove he's not into his playbook
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I fairness ....... Little was more of a potential player coming into last year than he was coming into this year. He was coming off his revelation of the year prior ..... when he ended the year strong.
By the time Bess imploded, Benjamin was hurt. The front office had brought in almost no receivers in the off-season last year. IIRC, we ran with only 4 WR to open the year. Let's face it .. Josh Cooper isn't a premium WR. Who were we going to replace struggling guys like Little and Bess with? Tori Gurley? I believe that he's already gone. We just didn't have anyone to replace the bum players with. Banner had control of the roster. I am sure that he had input from Chud ...... but what players did we have at WR who could have made an impact?
I think that Chud and his staff got everything they could have out of guys like Gordon and Cameron ...... but there just wasn't enough in other guys like Bess and Little. Once the season starts, it's hard to replace starters with guys off the street. I think that Chud believed in guys with NFL talent over guy brought in off the street. That doesn't mean that he was a huge believer in those particular players ..... just that they had a better chance of turning things around and succeeding than some street free agent.
This year we got rid of the guys who struggled at the end of last year. It was the right thing to do. We thought that we had plugged at least one hole with Bess last year. He turned out to be an even bigger hole. Unfortunately, that happens.
We'll see what happens with McFadden. If he shows any promise, I would think that he has to make it over a guy like Trufant, who (I believe I read) allowed every pass thrown against him last year to be completed. McFadden played decently at the end of the season. He got a BS penalty called against him, but all people remember is that penalty, not the circumstances. Further, I think that we'll have issues trying to re-sign Skrine ..... so young depth under contractual control for a few more years will be important.
We look at changes made by this staff, and see potential good ..... but let's face it ...Hoyer could just as easily be a journeyman as anything else. He could be a downgrade over last year's model with a little more exposure. We have no idea what Manziel really will be. I guess my point is to be careful before we anoint anyone as saviors. Let's see how the new guys do in real games before we proclaim them to be upgrades, and our problems cured.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Like I said, plugging in guys who can catch is a step up. Josh Cooper may not have been a premium WR, nor Gurley and etc - but they could at least perform their job from what I seen with what little game time they were granted over the struggling players.
Chud and his staff were plagued by crap QB play. Giving it to Weeden without giving Hoyer a legit shot proved to be, to bluntly state it, boneheaded. Even Campbell was coming in and balling better than Weeden. That's two people that had to wait their turn over Weeden who shouldn't ever even be given a turn. That's the only point I am trying to make. Pettine's camp seems to be true healthy competition and fair competition with the nature being may the best man win. I am digging it!
I didn't reference my comment about McFadden sucking because of the penalty which for sure was BS call - but because he showed not much since being drafted. Horton avoided him pretty hardcore and the struggling Owens was kept in there over McFadden. We'll see what happens, but I am not anticipating him being here coming reg. season.
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How much did Cooper upgrade the team? How many games did the Browns win with him
He played the final 2 games of the season, and contributed 9 receptions, but for only 60 yards. He did contribute 5 1st downs, but overall, the team would have gone along in similar fashion with or without him. He's not a difference maker, even in the slot. That's why he wasn't on the field. He can make a minor catch here or there ..... but think about how much help he had ...... Cameron at TE drawing coverage ..... Gordon on the other side drawing coverage ..... (and this goes for any of our receivers as well) and he averaged less than 7 yards/catch. That is embarrassing for an NFL receiver. Let's not pretend that Cooper was a solution to anything. He was a bum, used to replace a bum. His only saving grace was that he was a different bum.
As far as McFadden ... he missed a lot of training camp, IIRC. he had a groin injury that put him way behind at the start of camp. However, his scouting reports said that he has solid speed, hips, and quick feet. That gives him a chance. His "NFL Comparison" is Brent Grimes. (and I admit that I didn't know a tremendous amount about him going into last year's draft) That's pretty solid company. I just think that he got behind from the start, and never caught up. I do think that he will be our 3rd/4th CB when Skrine leaves in a year. (and I really can't see the Browns investing much in keeping him as a free agent, when they have depth and talent at the position)
One other thing ...... Pettine is a defensive coach. He had CB at the top of his list of impact players, behind QB, but top of his defensive priorities, even above a pass rusher. I think that we'll keep an extra CB over an extra OL, as we did last year. I think that he wants the extra speed on his special teams.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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How much did Cooper upgrade the team? How many games did the Browns win with him
How much did Little and Bess upgrade the team? How many wins can we contrinute to BOTH them players together, combined as a group, etc???????????? Think about it.
My entire point is why couldn't he been given more playing time when it's clear that Bess and Little weren't doing nothing but eating up two of the 53 man active roster spots? Again, since you continue to think I'm saying Cooper was beast, premium WR, best in the game - he isn't. I never said that. Never hinted to that. All I did say was Bess and Little underperformed and was given straight chance after chance after chance when... yeah I am not talking about LEAPS in terms of upgrade - we had other people we could have plugged in sooner and got production as opposed to what we got. Dropped passes and etc.
Didn't Greg and Bess lead the league with drops, and you want to want to call Cooper a bum and say he was an embarrassment judging on just his two or so games? Say what bro or am I just not understanding your points (no sarcasm, legit point). If you think Cooper was a bum, I'd be interested to hear your view on Bess/Greg on their performance last season.
Personally, I wouldn't give a half can of warm diet Coke for either Bess, Little or Cooper honestly. Or all three of them combined
As for the rest of your post, I'd say I'd have to agree with it! 
*EDIT* - in terms of the video of JM with his money phone... 
Last edited by Dawg_LB; 06/16/14 06:05 PM.
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How much did Cooper upgrade the team? How many games did the Browns win with him
How much did Little and Bess upgrade the team? How many wins can we contrinute to BOTH them players together, combined as a group, etc???????????? Think about it.
My entire point is why couldn't he been given more playing time when it's clear that Bess and Little weren't doing nothing but eating up two of the 53 man active roster spots? Again, since you continue to think I'm saying Cooper was beast, premium WR, best in the game - he isn't. I never said that. Never hinted to that. All I did say was Bess and Little underperformed and was given straight chance after chance after chance when... yeah I am not talking about LEAPS in terms of upgrade - we had other people we could have plugged in sooner and got production as opposed to what we got. Dropped passes and etc.
Didn't Greg and Bess lead the league with drops, and you want to want to call Cooper a bum and say he was an embarrassment judging on just his two or so games? Say what bro or am I just not understanding your points (no sarcasm, legit point). If you think Cooper was a bum, I'd be interested to hear your view on Bess/Greg on their performance last season.
Personally, I wouldn't give a half can of warm diet Coke for either Bess, Little or Cooper honestly. Or all three of them combined
As for the rest of your post, I'd say I'd have to agree with it!
*EDIT* - in terms of the video of JM with his money phone...
My point was that the chance that Little and/or Bess might turn things around was greater than Cooper ever being anything. Both Little and Bess had track records of productivity, even if it wasn't consistent. Cooper did not.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just a couple of random thoughts...
It's been mentioned more than once in the press how the Browns are taking lessons from the Seahawks. Mostly in terms of emulating their style around building the roster to be a defensive force, exceptional secondary, run heavy with some crucial passing mixed in with a mobile QB.
It's also possible that the Browns might be willing to copy the Seahawks who have been reported to allow room for individual personalities who are not forced to conform for the sake of conformity. BTW, that doesn't have to equate to lack of commitment to team goals or disrespect for necessary discipline. In fact, it may heighten a players buy in if he feels that his personal quirks are accepted within the organization.
On a related yet somewhat different tact. I think its fair to say that the culture of losing has infected the fan base a much as it has the team during the past 20 dismal seasons. That might inform the unwillingness of some fans to tolerate any player who doesn't behave within some narrowly preconceived parameters of effort, commitment, preparation or professionalism. It's understandable to want a team full of perfect automatons in the hope this will produce perfect results on the field. I just don't think that human nature works in this way.
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I really do not get the love for Cooper on this site. He was subpar, his lack of actually playing made people think he was something more than a check down target. I'm also pretty sure that Greg Little had games, this past season, where he surpassed Cooper's career stat line.
Cooper was a solid preseason player, but like Dion Lewis, he's not even average.
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He's an undrafted WR in his second year, I never expected much from him...
But the idea that a guy who can catch the ball should play a little bit more when we had two guys who had trouble catching the ball isn't that crazy...
But all 3 are gone now, so I don't really care..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
He's an undrafted WR in his second year, I never expected much from him...
But the idea that a guy who can catch the ball should play a little bit more when we had two guys who had trouble catching the ball isn't that crazy...
But all 3 are gone now, so I don't really care..
True. I find it boring that most of these threads turn into "I was less wrong then you were". 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Nice post, gd. Missed it before.
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Browns' Joe Haden has advice for Johnny Manziel and friends when they're out: 'put your phones away' http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/06/browns_joe_haden_has_advice_fo.htmlBy Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on June 20, 2014 at 6:18 PM, updated June 21, 2014 at 1:18 AM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns cornerback Joe Haden has some advice for quarterback Johnny Manziel heading into the summer break: tell your pals to put their phones away when you're out. "I just really think Johnny needs to maybe check his friends a little bit," Haden told Browns radio partner WKNR-AM Friday. "Everybody's going to go out, everybody's going to have a good time. But you've got to make sure when you're with your people it just doesn't get out. "You need to have a phone valet. Tell your friends 'put your phones away.' We're going to go out and have a good time and just don't record what you're doing." Since the night Manziel was drafted, he's been on Instagram or Twitter drinking a magnum of champagne, spraying champagne in a club, floating on a swan with a big bottle of something, napping under a table at the NFLPA Rookie Premiere and shouting an f-bomb into his ''money phone.'' Haden said last week at minicamp, "Johnny is a grown man. He's doing his thing. When he's out here, he's on the field. When he's doing our job, he's in these walls being a rookie and doing the best he can do. He's been a great teammate. People are on him a little more because whatever he does is blown out of proportion.'' But Haden stressed in the radio interview that Manziel has to learn to keep things on the down-low. "Everybody has fun, trust me," Haden said. "Everybody does. But everybody's not Johnny Football. So I think you're kind of like 'C'mon Johnny, you represent. You're going to have a good time for sure, nobody has a problem with it. But just try to have fun without the whole world knowing.'" (end)
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Just another reason I think so highly of Joe Haden.....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Exactly. If not for the phones taking videos of everything he does we'd never know. Just we don't know about what the other players are doing when they're out. They all party like Joe said. Difference is that they all don't have people up their butts recording everything for all to see.
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Exactly. If not for the phones taking videos of everything he does we'd never know. Just we don't know about what the other players are doing when they're out. They all party like Joe said. Difference is that they all don't have people up their butts recording everything for all to see.
Agreed. And it's not just "friends" that do it - in fact, most of the time it's fans, not friends.
Met Matt Ditka the night before the Browns bears game. (Mike's youngest son) He and his group were bar hopping, as were we. Talked with him a bit..........2 hours later, passed him on the street - the snowy street - and he fell down......combination of alcohol and snow. Had he been famous, and I was recording him, it would've been all over. He's not famous, and I wasn't recording him.
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Exactly. If not for the phones taking videos of everything he does we'd never know. Just we don't know about what the other players are doing when they're out. They all party like Joe said. Difference is that they all don't have people up their butts recording everything for all to see.
And that's a process about being selective in who you hang out with and decisions about where you go. As long as you keep it to a select group who are actually your friends, more times than not you'll be fine. Figuring those things out and using discretion have not been his strong suit thus far.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Show me your friends and I'll show you your future.. but in his case its show your videos of you.
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He is rich and he is famous. My advice would be to party at home or at a friends house not out in the public eye. Does that suck.... yes.... but it's the price you pay for being rich and famous.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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#gmstrong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny football told to prepare as
a backup. This is not hollywood.
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