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So hey ... I guess the Cavs won some sort of lottery thingy while the board was down? (Maybe the board should go down more often! Last time it happened we got a first-rounder for Trent Richardson!!) Why can't we get this kind of luck in the playoffs?  Yeah, so ... Embiid? Wiggins? Parker? Discuss ...
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Parker or Wiggins.
I'll pass on a Center with medical issues.
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What is the extent of his back issues though? Did he just hurt it once and it has since recovered? Or does he have some major body issues, like one leg is longer than the other ala Greg Oden? If it's just a one time injury, I'd be fine with Embiid. I think Wiggins would be the pick of Embiid has deeper injury concerns.
This is what Bill Simmons had to say about Embiid in his latest article:
Q: Wait … what? You watched Joel Embiid work out last week?
A: Yes — at a secret location in Santa Monica. He wasn’t playing against anyone, just going through a two-hour workout with Will Perdue. Here’s what I can tell you: He moves around as effortlessly as a 7-foot Serge Ibaka; he’s such an athletic freak that he’s one of those “still going up as he’s finishing the dunk” guys; his freakish wingspan might make Jay Bilas pass out; he has been playing basketball for only four years (which seems impossible); he gave up a world-class volleyball career; he has 3-point range; he can shoot jump-hooks with both hands already; he couldn’t have seemed more coachable/agreeable/likable; he’s a hard worker with a goofy sense of humor; his voice is just a touch Mutombo-y (deep with a heavy African accent); and his friends call him “Jo-Jo.” And again — his back seemed totally fine.
News flash: As I said on TV before the lottery, Embiid was always going first. None of these teams was passing on him. Repeat: none of them. The amount of smokescreening going on in April and May was high comedy. We keep hearing his back is really screwed up, this could be another Oden situation … Just stop it. This was like sitting at a fantasy football auction next to someone who kept claiming that he wasn’t going to pay big money for a QB … and then, two hours later, he’s bidding $49 for Aaron Rodgers. The truth is, Wiggins and Parker never separated themselves enough this season to warrant anyone saying, “We’re passing on a potential franchise center with a good chance of becoming the 7-foot Serge Ibaka.”
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To be fair, I wouldn't take Embiid #1 overall if he was completely healthy -- It'd still be Wiggins or Parker for me.
The back issues is just the icing on the cake for me.
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As long as the back looks ok, you have to go Embiid. Overall, I think this draft is somewhat overrated,
Wiggins is hyperathletic, but I think he has about as much of a chance to be the next Gerard Wallace, as the next Lebron James.
Jabari Parker is much more polished, but has the lowest upside. He's also yet another SF/PF tweener on a team who already has a few of them.
Embiid is a 7 footer who moves like he's 6'6". Amazing footwork, >4 BPG (already an elite defender), already a great rebounder. This is to say he's ready for major NBA minutes now.
And if you look at how far he's advanced in the last year, it's amazing. He is a more polished offensive player than Wiggins is today -- and Wiggins has been "the next big thing" for 4-5 years now. He could be Hakeem offensively.
Of course, maybe the doctors flag the back, but one minor back issue shouldn't make everybody scared to draft him. This can be a growing related issue (for a lot of big players), and it could very well just be nothing more than that.
In short, he's the only guy in this draft who could be the best player on a championship level team - and so if you want to win a championship, you have to take a risk and draft him.
~Lyuokdea
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As long as the back looks ok, you have to go Embiid. Overall, I think this draft is somewhat overrated,
Wiggins is hyperathletic, but I think he has about as much of a chance to be the next Gerard Wallace, as the next Lebron James.
Jabari Parker is much more polished, but has the lowest upside. He's also yet another SF/PF tweener on a team who already has a few of them.
Embiid is a 7 footer who moves like he's 6'6". Amazing footwork, >4 BPG (already an elite defender), already a great rebounder. This is to say he's ready for major NBA minutes now.
And if you look at how far he's advanced in the last year, it's amazing. He is a more polished offensive player than Wiggins is today -- and Wiggins has been "the next big thing" for 4-5 years now. He could be Hakeem offensively.
Of course, maybe the doctors flag the back, but one minor back issue shouldn't make everybody scared to draft him. This can be a growing related issue (for a lot of big players), and it could very well just be nothing more than that.
In short, he's the only guy in this draft who could be the best player on a championship level team - and so if you want to win a championship, you have to take a risk and draft him.
That's pretty much my take on everything as well. From a "highest ceiling" point of view, you've got to take Embiid. He's a freakish 7'0 athlete who's only been playing basketball for 4 years. What's the one thing we've really been missing since Z left? A post presence ... and Embiid would give you that. I think you're looking at a potential Tim Duncan or Serge Ibaka here. Unless his back is worse than indicated, how can you pass that up?
I think Wiggins is the next best pick. He probably should of dominated a lot more in college though. He also has a really high ceiling, and could probably play SF for us. Parker just seems like a "safe" pick. I don't think he puts you over the top though.
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Parker or Wiggins.
I'll pass on a Center with medical issues.
I think in today's NBA, always take the wing player...
I'm pretty much on board with either of those guys. Sounds like Parker is a little more ready to go, but Wiggins is the guy with the taller ceiling.
Between Irving and some of these other guys, the last thing we need is to depend on another key guy who has question marks of the injury variety. This is the NBA not the NFL.
I still can't believe we won the thing again. I didn't even watch. My girlfriend and I were watching a movie, and we paused because she wanted to watch a wicked storm outside, and as I was checking my twitter timeline, it was firing off tweets like a machine gun...
I have a bunch of Boston fans on my facebook and holy crap were they mad, it was awesome. What an entitled bunch of crybabies...
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I have a bunch of Boston fans on my facebook and holy crap were they mad, it was awesome. What an entitled bunch of crybabies...
No kidding ... Bill Simmons was balling like you wouldn't believe. Aww ... I'm sorry that your team's effort to roster-tank didn't pay off for you. Maybe you can get another former Celtic who happens to be a GM, to giftwrap you another All-star for pennies on the dollar again. I'm sure you won't cry about rule changes needed for that ... well, unless of course the Lakers do the same thing.
Was a fun night too ... I was out at TGIFridays, and checked my phone. Couldn't believe it ... and my wife started asking me why I was grinning like a Cheshire cat.
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I think in today's NBA, always take the wing player...
To be fair ... we've passed up Drummond and Noel to take Waiters and Bennett.
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So we missed out on a guy who averages 11 points per game and a guy who hasn't played a game yet? No wonder we suck. 
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I have a bunch of Boston fans on my facebook and holy crap were they mad, it was awesome. What an entitled bunch of crybabies...
No kidding ... Bill Simmons was balling like you wouldn't believe. Aww ... I'm sorry that your team's effort to roster-tank didn't pay off for you. Maybe you can get another former Celtic who happens to be a GM, to giftwrap you another All-star for pennies on the dollar again. I'm sure you won't cry about rule changes needed for that ... well, unless of course the Lakers do the same thing.
Was a fun night too ... I was out at TGIFridays, and checked my phone. Couldn't believe it ... and my wife started asking me why I was grinning like a Cheshire cat.
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I think in today's NBA, always take the wing player...
To be fair ... we've passed up Drummond and Noel to take Waiters and Bennett.
The thing that made me laugh was that Simmons acted like this thing was rigged... All jokes aside, I don't think it is. They have a very reputable 3rd party handle the process (Ernst & Young), and media is actually allowed inside to watch.
But he was so mad because of some of the bad moves we've made since Lebron. I mean never mind that they have been in scramble mode ever since... They tried doing it the right away. The Bennett move still doesn't anger me. We all said going into the draft that if they wanted to reach for a guy, this was the year to do it. It wasn't a good year to win the lottery. It just wasn't. I'm still not fully closing the book on the guy either. I really think he needs a coach who has playing experience that would make him feel comfortable busting his rear end... Either that or the Cavs need to get a vet who can take him under his wing..
However, if I'm Bennett, I'm giving Joe Smith a call. Remember him? First overall pick who never lived up to the billing. Still made a really nice career for himself. He swallowed his pride and became a role player, and a pretty solid one at that.
I do want to see what this group would look like with a good coach, Parker/Wiggins, and everyone healthy...
The more I think about it, I think Lebron may just opt in for '14-'15. I think that decision is all about whether or not he thinks they can do one more run with that group. Otherwise, it's about who gives him the best chance going forward.
My money still says he stays in Miami long term, but you have to admit he raised an eyebrow when he heard the Cavs won this lottery.
In order for it to happen this year, I would think the Cavs gotta nail this pick AND somehow land another big time player without dumping Irving. Despite what rumors and reports say, I think those 2 wouldn't mind playing together. Why wouldn't Lebron want a PG who can handle the ball, get to the hole, and snipe from outside?
Anyone who can shoot from the outside is pretty much a good fit for LBJ.
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So we missed out on a guy who averages 11 points per game and a guy who hasn't played a game yet?
Really? You're pointing out Drummond's scoring 'prowess' as if that's a reason not to get him? He's still scoring more points per game than Tristan Thompson, has averaged a double-double in his two year career, and gets a block and a half a game. He's a post-presence ... something we've sorely lacked forever. Oh, and Dion is only getting mere 4 points more per game than Drummond ... without all that pesky defensive output.
And you're right ... almost every team in the NBA would jump at the chance at taking Bennett over Noel right now.
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But he was so mad because of some of the bad moves we've made since Lebron. I mean never mind that they have been in scramble mode ever since... They tried doing it the right away. The Bennett move still doesn't anger me. We all said going into the draft that if they wanted to reach for a guy, this was the year to do it. It wasn't a good year to win the lottery. It just wasn't. I'm still not fully closing the book on the guy either. I really think he needs a coach who has playing experience that would make him feel comfortable busting his rear end... Either that or the Cavs need to get a vet who can take him under his wing.
I'm not even sure what we've really "messed up" ... other than maybe the Bennett pick. But even there ... who else do we take? Take a one-year waiver on Noel? Maybe ... but everyone else that was available was a guard that we didn't really need. The problem has been there's been no real "obvious" pick for us, despite "winning" these drafts. MCW won Rookie of the Year this year ... and he got drafted 11th. It was just a crappy draft to "win" the lottery for.
The other picks have been decent. They just aren't the All-Stars you'd hope to get from top-4 selections. TT has probably had the better career of any of the other picks 4-10 in his draft. (Klay Thompson went 11th) The one draft you really WANTED to win was 2012 ... and we got the 4th pick, in a 3-deep draft. Dion has held his own ... and yeah, we should of probably gone with Drummond, but that wasn't exactly a slam dunk pick either. It wasn't like we picked Sam Bowie over Jordan there.
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The Spurs lost the Series when they lost Game 2 at home.
I can't see the Spurs taking a game in Miami.
MIA wins games 3 and 4.
SA wins at home in Game 5.
MIA closes it out at home in Game 6.
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I agree that if Embiid is healthy, then he's the pick.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All these offers I'm seeing for Kevin Love make me wanna puke..
#1, A first next year and Waiters or TT? Are you kidding me?
The only thing I'm giving up #1 for is Phillys 3 and 10 or maybe Orlandos 4 and 12, but I'd want a player in return aswell...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Trading for Love would tell me all I need to know about Gilbert. He will officially be the new Donald Sterling of owners.
We trade for Love and he will leave after we're bounced in the first round because we can't play defense.
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Let's take Wiggins and make Drake proud. Seriously though, I think we landed the jackpot here. I think these three could all be superstars easily.
Also, Spurs 2-1. Let's get it.
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I think Parker busts like most hyped Duke players. Spurs played at an all time great level. That first quarter was truly incredible.
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Eh, I think Parker will be able to be one of the few who can do good in the NBA.
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I would take Wiggins. He's not there yet, but he has the most ability in my opinion. Embiid is very talented, but just couldn't roll the dice with centers that have back issues. I was for taking Oden over Durant in 07. That national championship game against Florida he dominated Horford, and Noah. He was the best defensive Center, I've ever seen in college, and you seen what happened to him.
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Not all back issues are created equal though.
He had a stress fracture in his back. Those heal. Andre Drummond had one in February of 2013. Last year, after recovering, he scored 13.5 per game, and grabbed 13.2 boards/game for the season.
If the back checks out, then it could just be a freak accident that caused the problem. I am sure that Embiid will be scanned, checked, and examined every manner imaginable. If he check out medically, he has to be the guy at 1. He is a quick, fast, skilled 7 footer. Those guys don't come along very often, and create incredible mismatches.
If he doesn't check out medically, then I would grab Wiggins. I love his upside, and frankly, Parker, the consensus other top 3 guy, worries me.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Spurs lost the Series when they lost Game 2 at home.
I can't see the Spurs taking a game in Miami.
MIA wins games 3 and 4.
SA wins at home in Game 5.
MIA closes it out at home in Game 6.
I thought the same thing ["I can't see the Spurs taking a game in Miami"], but they certainly did it last night! Good game. 
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From all accounts I've read, his back should be okay. He has a condition called "Spondylolysis", but apparently this is something that can be treated and mitigated. Several current NBA players have had the same issue and with the proper treatment, they haven't had issues with it.
I don't see how you can pass on the guy. He's put up Tim Duncan like stats his Freshman year. He's 7 foot tall, has moves like Olajuwon and he's only played organized basketball for THREE YEARS. I think people see Greg Oden and freak out about drafting big-men now. Greg Oden had much deeper physical issues when he came out of college. One of his legs was slightly longer than the other, for heaven's sakes.
Jabari Parker has a ceiling of Carmelo. I think Wiggins might be another Tracy McGrady type player. But Embiid is getting Tim Duncan/Hakeem comparisons. I don't think you pass that up for a Carmelo or T-Mac type player.
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The Spurs lost the Series when they lost Game 2 at home.
I can't see the Spurs taking a game in Miami.
MIA wins games 3 and 4.
SA wins at home in Game 5.
MIA closes it out at home in Game 6.
Good reverse jinx there.
San Antonio just put on a clinic last night. Kawhi Leonard went into beast mode last night. Not only was he putting up points, he was holding down Lebron. Lebron had something like 7 turnovers last night. I remember one play where Kawhi hustled down on a fast break and forced Ray Allen into a missed layup. He was just everywhere last night.
I have to say I was wrong about him in the 2011 draft. People had considered taking him at #4, but I wanted no part of him. He just seemed to disappear in big games at college and never really seemed to influence the game. Honestly though, I don't think he becomes the player he is today if he didn't go to San Antonio. There he learned a system, and was only expected to do what he did well (rebound). From there he's grown into quite a two-way player.
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Oden averaged 16 pts, 10 rebounds, and 3 blocks his first year at Ohio State. He played in all of the games, except a few. I think the only injury he had was wrist surgery, done in the summer before his freshman year. I know one has nothing to do with the other, but no one could foreseen the injury history with Oden. It's why he went ahead of Durant, and not too many people thought it was a bad move.
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Quote:
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The Spurs lost the Series when they lost Game 2 at home.
I can't see the Spurs taking a game in Miami.
MIA wins games 3 and 4.
SA wins at home in Game 5.
MIA closes it out at home in Game 6.
Good reverse jinx there.
It's not weird if it works
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You win on the road when your role players step up. The Spurs have the best role players in the NBA.
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The spurs have so many advantages over other teams. Have the same head coach for 17 years, the same core group of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli for the past 12 years or so. Then you add in a mix of veterans/younger players, that put the team first, and leave their egos aside. It's not a surprise they went overseas to get some of those players. It's not a USA brand of basketball. At least not the modern day Nba. I view the spurs as more of a Euro team, the way they pass it, and shoot it. Thing of beauty to watch.
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The spurs have so many advantages over other teams. Have the same head coach for 17 years, the same core group of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli for the past 12 years or so. Then you add in a mix of veterans/younger players, that put the team first, and leave their egos aside. It's not a surprise they went overseas to get some of those players. It's not a USA brand of basketball. At least not the modern day Nba. I view the spurs as more of a Euro team, the way they pass it, and shoot it. Thing of beauty to watch.
Yep, their second quarter of Tuesday's game was GREAT.
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The Spurs play the same way just about every possession of every minute of the game. They are pitbulls in their approach. That has to be exhausting if you're the other team. You can't really catch them out of character.
LeBron is so good he can will the Heat to win, though. I suspect the Heat will win in seven. I just can't see LeBron being denied three in row. Too much historical significance to it. And I think the NBA and the refs will try to make it happen as well. The NBA has become WWE-lite.
But I think that would be a real shame. Because while Miami does run an offense, they do resort to iso a little too much for my liking. I would like the better TEAM to win it all this year. The Spurs are just beautiful to watch. And no one on the Spurs is really annoying or makes you hate them. They just play. I find teams like OKC and the Heat to be incredibly annoying and unlikeable. I found myself really despising Durant and Westbrook through these playoffs. Just nothing likeable about them. The Heat are the same way. I'm not sure if there is a more annoying player than Wade. He is the king of the subtle cheap shot (how about him going underneath Manu's body on that rebound last night). I can't stand the guy. The rest of the Heat are annoying because they are riding the coattails of LeBron, but act like they are much bigger than that. Guys like Chalmers, Birdman ... dime a dozen players ... that could easily be on a perennial loser as a perennial winner.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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The spurs have so many advantages over other teams. Have the same head coach for 17 years, the same core group of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli for the past 12 years or so. Then you add in a mix of veterans/younger players, that put the team first, and leave their egos aside. It's not a surprise they went overseas to get some of those players. It's not a USA brand of basketball. At least not the modern day Nba. I view the spurs as more of a Euro team, the way they pass it, and shoot it. Thing of beauty to watch.
Yep, their second quarter of Tuesday's game was GREAT.
That first quarter was something we will never see again. 90% shooting is something out of this universe. The Spurs are the Mavericks of 2011 on steroids. They believe so much in Pops system that they KNOW they're the best team on the court.
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The spurs have so many advantages over other teams. Have the same head coach for 17 years, the same core group of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli for the past 12 years or so. Then you add in a mix of veterans/younger players, that put the team first, and leave their egos aside. It's not a surprise they went overseas to get some of those players. It's not a USA brand of basketball. At least not the modern day Nba. I view the spurs as more of a Euro team, the way they pass it, and shoot it. Thing of beauty to watch.
Yep, their second quarter of Tuesday's game was GREAT.
That first quarter was something we will never see again. 90% shooting is something out of this universe. The Spurs are the Mavericks of 2011 on steroids. They believe so much in Pops system that they KNOW they're the best team on the court.
It was a pure pleasure to watch. I'm much more into football but I will always watch the NBA finals now and probably some of the playoffs too. It can get very exciting at times.
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So we missed out on a guy who averages 11 points per game
Yeah, that's Andre Drummond in a nutshell
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These 2 HAVE to be the pick. I think Parkers ceiling at extreme best is Melo. I don't know if you can win a title with Melo as your best player.
Completely agree. Plus we already took a tweener forward with Bennett last year. Can we take a guy with a definite position for once?
I think Wiggins ceiling is probably Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady. He just doesn't have the handles, basketball IQ or killer instinct to be a player like Kobe or Lebron. That's still not a bad player to have on your team. His floor is maybe ... Kawhi Leonard? Again, still pretty good.
Embiid's ceiling is Hakeem or Tim Duncan. You just can't tell with him, because he's only played for THREE YEARS! He moves about as well as you can hope for a big man. His floor is probably Greg Oden ... I kid! Provided he stays healthy, I'd say his floor is maybe a 7 foot tall Serge Ibaka? Unless his back is wrecked, I say you just have to take a chance on him.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Unless the team doctors have reservations about his health, Embiid is the pick, and it's not even close.
Then again...we do draft like morons.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
We definitely should've gone with Drummond over Ricky Davis 2.0.
That one had me angry.
Thompson...sigh. Definitely the wrong pick, but it was a weak class, so you can write it off, I guess. He was so raw coming out...every now and again you see a flash, but at the end of the day, he's a bench player. His offensive game is head shaking, and he can't defend the better power forwards in the league.
In a good lineup, he's the type that comes off the bench during the regular season, but gets glued to it during the playoffs, because he can't bang with the big boys.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Whoa ...... Interesting ....... I don't want to give up the 1st pick ..... but Love would be interesting ..... Man, why do they have to do stuff like this? I am envisioning Love and Irving ...... alongside Enbiid ....... :drool: Wow. We might even be able to squeeze in a certain SF who used to play for us as well if that all happened.  lol Kevin Love says Cleveland Cavaliers rumors aren't outlandish | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/06/post_80.html#incart_m-rpt-1CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Kevin Love can't win. Trying to answer a question about the wild speculation concerning his future, the Minnesota Timberwolves star only fueled more speculation. Asked about an ESPN.com report that he had no interest in Cleveland, Love told the USA Today blog, "The Big Lead," "I don't think the Cleveland [trade rumors] are outlandish at all. They have a great young foundation.'' Love was in Los Angeles to promote the video game "Call of Duty'' and agreed to answer five questions from "The Big Lead.'' There was one stipulation: There couldn't be any questions about the Boston Celtics. A recent trip to Boston generated a flood of speculation that Love, who can be a free agent next summer and reportedly has informed the Wolves he doesn't plan to sign an extension with Minnesota, would try to force a trade to the Celtics. But his answer to the fifth question will raise some eyebrows in Cleveland. Q: I saw this actual sentence on ESPN over the weekend: "Cleveland has interest in Love, but the feeling isn't mutual." Did you see that and what do you make of reporting like that? How difficult is it not to pick up the phone and call your agent, or pick up your phone and tweet that it's BS? Love: "I try not to read it. A lot of it is brought to my attention through outside sources, sometimes twitter. But like most people, I need to be conscious of my image and try to roll with the punches. I know that's a generic answer. I don't think the Cleveland [trade rumors] are outlandish at all. They have a great young foundation." Love starred with Cavs All-Star Kyrie Irving in one of Irving's popular Uncle Drew videos for Pepsi Max. He has long been on the franchise's radar. Last year, the Cavaliers offered the No. 1 pick in the draft, along with Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson, for Love. This year, the Cavs again have the No. 1 pick in a much-deeper draft and general manager David Griffin has made it clear he would consider trading the pick to acquire a player the caliber of Love.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
I'll crush your dream really quick.
We trade for Love by giving up a ransom. We don't sign anybody notable in free agency because.....well we're Cleveland. We come in to the season winning regular season games. Possibly land a 3rd seed because the East is so weak. Maybe a 2 because Indiana might collapse.
But when it comes time for big boy basketball against a veteran team like Chicago or Brooklyn we lose in the first round because our 2 best players can't defend. Love realizes "oh crap this team doesn't have a whole lot of flexibility after giving up every asset to get me." Thus being the definition of a treadmill team destined to lose in the 1st or 2nd round. Causing him to want to bolt. Leaving us with Kyrie who will leave after becoming disgruntled himself.
Oh wait, I just described the EXACT same situation the Knicks are in but at least they have the NYC appeal.
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