DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs Off-Season/NBA Discussion

Being a transplant, I get asked my thoughts on Lebron all the time. At least a few times a month. People are shocked that I don't really care. I just kinda say, I'm from Cleveland and I've learned to get over things quickly. That's the way it goes.

I hold no hard feelings against him. I truly believe he's sorry for the way it all went down. He's hinted enough at it without really being directly asked. That's enough for me.

I don't necessarily like his team. I've always hated Dwyane Wade. I hate that they birthed an entire herd of horrible bandwagon, Red Sox hat wearing crowd.

For me, that series was a lot more about tipping my cap toward the direction of the Spurs. I felt like last night may have been the last hurrah. Maybe not, maybe they come right back next year, but I was in awe of the way they took the AAU mentality, the ISO/chuck playbook, and burned it in effigy last night...

I wish the Cavs could adopt that style. That would work for them. Selfless basketball. So many years have gone into that, and we can't even get simple draft picks right. San Antonio has a grand total of 1 top ten pick on their team (Duncan). Makes you feel kinda stupid for always talking about tanking.

I echo your thoughts about Parker ... especially if you're hoping to bring back LBJ. His best position is probably the 3, so where does he play if LBJ is to come back? Then like you said, He's a tweener, he doesn't play great defense, and he's pretty much a slightly more polished version of Anthony Bennett ... or a poor-man's version of Carmello Anthony. Like the issue with Carmello in Miami ... who plays where if you're hoping to bring back Lebron?

Wiggins or Embiid needs to be the pick. Embiid fits a solid need. It gives you a legit, athletic 7-footer at the Center position. Something we haven't had since Z was younger. We would finally stop getting abused in the post, and fills a position of need, rather than stuffing the roster with another tweener in a position we have lots of guys for.

Wiggins could probably play SG and put Dion to the bench, which might be a good thing. I think he plays much better off the bench anyway. Wiggins would at least provide some defense and length against 2-guards ... something else we've lacked miserably for a long time. I think that pick would at least lock down some depth chart positions, and add something to the team (perimeter defense). Taking Parker just doesn't seem to add anything, other than a slightly better tweener forward, playing the same position that Lebron would.

Again, depending on the back, Embiid should be the pick. You would have an established core at each of the 5 positions:

PG) Irving
SG) Waiters
SF) Bennett
PF) Thompson
C) Embiid

All of those guys are 23 and under. If Lebron doesn't come back, you could at least hold out hope that those 5 could learn to play together. If Lebron does come back, he would replace the weakest link of that lot.

If you take Wiggins, I think that would establish the backcourt much better. We'd still be really weak up front, but maybe we could work a trade or something.to get a little bigger.

Parker would defend the weaker of the 2/3 positions. On offense you could do a few different things, because he can shoot very well. Having Irving and Parker out on the perimeter with Lebron handling the ball is sniper heaven. An Irving/Lebron pick and roll would be fun to watch too.

You would have tons of options with Lebron, Irving, and one of these draft picks.

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I wish the Cavs could adopt that style. That would work for them. Selfless basketball. So many years have gone into that, and we can't even get simple draft picks right. San Antonio has a grand total of 1 top ten pick on their team (Duncan). Makes you feel kinda stupid for always talking about tanking.

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I think the fact that so many of San Antonio's players are foreign has something to do w/them being intelligent and not as selfish as their American born and bred competitors.

I believe that's the case as well. You can't find one team that plays like the Spurs. They play basketball the way it's meant to be played. Fundamentals in American basketball has been lacking for years.

I don't know a whole, whole lot about Hawes beyond what I saw last year, and what I saw in the few games with the Sixers I saw .......... but could be play the 4?

Man, imagine a front court of Hawes, Embiid, and Lebron. lol That would be a big, mobile front court.

We would have 3 legitimate 7 footers in Embiid, Hawes, and Zeller ... and all can move fairly well or better.

I should mention that I really don't necessarily see Lebron coming back ......or us able to sign Lebron and re-sign Hawes as well ..... but it is nice to dream.

The 26th will go a lot of ways to determine what happens, I hope we don't do something stupid with the #1 (aka trade it for Love)

I also think draft night is a good night for Love to get traded. If we take either Wiggins or Emib at 1, and offer Minny Thompson, Bennett, and Next years #1 for Love, I could live with that... And I don't really know what more they could get...

If LeBron looks at Wade and Bosh, then looks at Kyrie, Waiters, Love, and Embid, who would you rather play with?

Then FA starts the 1st and the whole world may explode..

Parker may start at the '3' but I think he'll be a '4' pretty quickly. The only real question right now is if he is strong enough there because he is not a renowned gym rat and doesn't look as strong (not always telling, that's why they have private workouts though).

I like Embiid, then Wiggins, then Parker. Wiggins really won me over the last month or so of basketball while Jabari didn't seem to be getting better as the season progressed. Add in murmurs about Jabari's lack of conditioning, Wiggins way better athleticism, and Embiid being 7' tall with legitimate post-moves and a halfway decent mid-range game and that's enough to put Jabari at 3rd overall.

of course, Embiid only ahead if his knee checks out.

I knew the game was over after that Manu dunk

1. That videos awesome.

2. LOL at all this "Who can the Heat add?" Talk. If all 3 opt in, they can't add ANYONE..

And really, do people think adding one other guy (Melo, Lowry, whomever) is going to help THAT much?

Riley, LeBron, and Co had to of known how this was going to work...

If I'm Bosh, I don't really care what Bron and Wade do, I already have two titles, and I'm not ganna get 20 mil from anyone any time soon.. I'm taking my 40 mil over the next two years and they can live with it...

Yeah, if the big 3 all opt back in, I doubt that the Heat can even keep a 1st round pick because of the guaranteed contract.

They, again, will have to use exemptions and exceptions and minimum contracts to fill out the roster. Anderson has already said that he's going to opt out, and he is their 3rd leading rebounder per game. They currently have what ...... 5 or 6 players who are 32 or older? That is the kind of player they will have to go after if they max out 3 deals though. They will have to go get the older guys who they hope have a little left to offer, and who want to take a little less to try and go for a championship. They will have to carefull use their exceptions and exemptions to carefully assemble the team around those top 3 players.

I still don't get how Carmelo would fit on a team with James and Bosh though. Anthony is a SF ..... and the Heat already have a pretty good one. I don't know if Carmelo can be a 4 .... or if he wants to take the pounding he would take at the 4. Where does Carmelo fit on a team with Lebron?

OK, where would SF Lebron James fit them?

LeBron would eityer play 4 with Bosh at 5, or you have Bron run Point with Wade, Melo, and Bosh as your 2, 3, 4..

They need depth, and big guys, not a ball stopping shooter..

I don't know how you just watched SA play perfect basketball and your first thought is "We need Carmelo"

I don't think that Lebron would look forward to taking a lot more banging at the 4. He's a big SF at 250# .......... but I still doubt that he would look forward to changing positions to bring someone in to take his position.

I just worry about a guy having to change position to make something like that work (and one of them would have to do so long term to make it work) when a player is great at one position. What if Lebron or Carmelo go from being a great SF to being a fairly effective PF? Big risk there IMHO.

I also wonder if Lebron would want to go chasing around waterbug PGs all game long if the Heat went that route?

It seems to me that he might see either option as one that could prematurely age him.

He's been playing the 4 and the 1 throughout various stretches of his career. Hell, he played the 1 almost exclusively in his early Cavs days. He plays the 4 for the Heat quite often. That small ball lineup is a big part of why they won it all last year.

I know you think I'm being condescending when I ask if you watch much basketball, but your comments are really headscratching at times.

How could one have watched LeBron's play and not know/see this?

Lebron
Wade
Miller
Haslem
Bosh

That was Miamis lineup when they first started. Miller and UD just kept getting hurt.

Yeah. And he played the 4/5 enough in the Finals last year to run Splitter off the floor.

I guess.

I just wonder if he would want to do that on a constant basis. No matter what other spots he plays, he still seems to me to play most of his time at the 3. I think that they use him situationally. However, would Lebron, for example, want to play the 4 for a whole contract? I don't know. There is a difference between playing several different positions as part of a particular game plan, and doing so on a semi-permanent basis. The PF position does seem to be getting smaller in today's NBA though, so I suppose maybe he could. After all, Anthony Bennett was drafted to be a PF.

Do people actually think the Cavs have a chance at getting Love without giving up this years #1? Waiters, Bennett, and Thompson?



Do you even realize what other teams will be offering? The Celtics have future first round picks for eternity that they will be offering. The Warriors have the Klay Thompson trump card. Phoenix has three first rounders and players to offer. Sacramento has picks and players.

Philly apparentlly really wants Wiggins.

Anyone interested in #1 for #3 and #10? Think they'd do it?

Still get either Embid or Parker, and another top 10 pick? Yes please.

Philly pretty much knows that if they stay at #3 they get Wiggins. Cavs take Embiid and the Bucks take Parker or Exum.

So, draft Wiggins (which is a totally plausible idea in and of itself) and offer him to Philly when they are on the clock for 3 and 10... Boom.

Then if they bite, Offer 10 + some bodies to Minny for Love...

Then don't the 76ers just draft Embiid.

I'm wondering if that's what they're trying to sucker us into doing ... then they can get Embiid to drop to #3, and probably get the best guy in the draft. Seriously though ... what team let's it be known that they REALLY want a guy this close to the draft?

I think Parker is the perfect guy for Philly actually, a guy who is already good on offense, slot him in with MCW and Noel, you've got a baby big 3 you can grow together...

I think Wiggins is more of an off the ball guy from the start, and would be asked to do too much too soon in Philly, which is why I see him fitting in well in Cleveland..

I'd still take Embid.

Milwaukee can pretty much take anything..

You're right. This is a different situation. Boston has the best offer. It will be tough to beat.

This is pretty much how I feel about the situation.....

Facing Decision 2.0, LeBron James has two choices: Heat or Cavs reunion

Here's some real talk for LeBron James, the kind he didn't get in 2010 when he made the glorious decision to go on live national television and put a stake in Cleveland's sporting heart. Some people have advisors. LeBron has ass-kissers, friends and family who long ago latched onto Superman's adolescent cape and rode it to riches. Hey, good for them.

Most times, good for LeBron too. Most times, an unadulterated ass-kisser is the friend a person like LeBron needs. Those people, genetic lottery winners like LeBron and Kim Kardashian and Justin Bieber, need unconditional support from somebody. No, really. They live in a cocoon of round-the-clock noise, and this is a day and age when only the nastiest noise gets through. People like LeBron, they need loyal friends. Someone to tell them the haters are wrong, you won't look ridiculous with that vacuous NBA player or in that egomaniacal pose or on national television telling Akron you're taking your talents 1,200 miles away. You're the best, Kimye, Biebs LeBron. Everyone needs support.

But this is one of those times when LeBron needs to hear not the smooching of lips on his rear end, but the hard sound of truth. And if none of the leeches in his posse will tell him for fear of being shunned or banished, I will. Can't banish me. The worst LeBron can do is ignore this:

Stay in Miami -- or go to Cleveland.

Those are the choices for The Decision 2.0, the only two if his reputation matters to him at all. And it does. We all know it does. He was stung -- and shocked, because all those ass-kissers around him had told him what a great idea it was! -- when the country recoiled at the enormity of his ego and the shrinkage of his heart as he gamed the system in 2010 to leave behind northeast Ohio for South Florida.

Roughly 60 percent of the response to an ESPN SportsNation poll in 2010 said The Decision had done "permanent damage" to his image. And that number sounds low to me. If 40 percent of America was OK with LeBron after that whole thing, when he surrounded himself with the Boys & Girls Club of America, as if he was doing this for the kids -- the kids! -- and hand-picked Jim Gray as his emcee and used an hour of prime time to celebrate the wonders of LeBron ... I missed it. I didn't hear 40 percent approval for LeBron James in 2010. Did you?

As impossible as it seems, he could be on the verge of doing it again. Not the live TV show, far as we know, though to put anything beyond LeBron and his team of tone-deaf opportunists would be a mistake. They could do this again on ESPN, or worse, take it to pay-per-view. Charge us $14.99 to watch LeBron say he's taking his talents to Lake Shore Boulevard. I'd pay it. Lots of us would. Tell the world there's about to be an accident outside their window, and you won't see shades pulled. You'll see people sitting on ledges, eating popcorn.

LeBron has two options, and they're great options, but they're his only options. One, he can stay in Miami and show the loyalty most of us wanted to see from him in 2010. Is that fair? Maybe, maybe not, but we judge our mythical figures differently than we judge Nicholas next door. Oh, Nicholas wants to leave my nice neighborhood for one of those ritzy, gated communities? You go, Nick. Pursue that dream.

LeBron is leaving Cleveland for Miami? How awful.

That's how it is, how it always will be for men we turn into idols, following them on Twitter and buying their shoes and liking their Instagram post of today's view from Cabo. We give these people so much of ourselves, but we expect something in return. Too much? Nah. It's a fair trade. They have the fame and fortune and fawning, and in return we want them to show certain virtues. Loyalty is one, and I'm not holding that desire at arm's length -- I'm saying, that's how I feel too. When great athletes are loyal to a city and a fan base, it's heartwarming. When they're not? It's disgusting.

Unfair? Don't think so. To whom much is given, much is expected. And this is what we expect from LeBron: Show Miami the loyalty you didn't show Cleveland and stay with the Heat -- or show loyalty to Cleveland and return to the Cavaliers. I don't know that I'm tapping into what much of America thinks, but this feels right to me. America would be OK with LeBron if he stays in Miami and tries to win with whatever financial handcuffs the Heat face. If he goes back to Cleveland and tries to return those rags to his pre-Decision riches? America would swoon. We love a humble homecoming.

If he chases titles in Chicago or Los Angeles or Houston? America won't be OK with that. The winning city would be OK with it, just as Miami suddenly embraced LeBron in 2010, but that's what we as sports fans do: Ignore the warts because those are now our warts. And besides, LeBron doesn't have warts. They're beauty marks. You shut up! Jealous hater.

LeBron has the right to go wherever he wants, don't get me wrong, but don't ignore America's rights, either. And we'd absolutely have the right to despise him if he goes to a new city with new toys and tries to game the system again and win new titles there.

Lots of us -- including me -- recovered from The Decision in 2010. Lots of us went from revulsion to anger to resentment to acceptance to being able to enjoy LeBron for what he is, which is the single greatest talent to ever play this game.

Would we be able to recover from The Decision 2.0? Don't know. Don't find out, LeBron.

Ask your friends, and they'll tell you ... exactly what you want to hear.

http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/...iers-homecoming

If it's Miami or Cleveland, that's an easy decision, stay in Miami.

Sure Wade's knee's are shot, but he's still okay. And Bosh is productive. You know you'll be the 1 or 2 seed with that lineup.

What's in Cleveland? Kyrie is good, but how good? And will he even be here long term? And the #1 overall pick is nice, but it could bust again or take 2-3 years to become an All Star level.

And who is the Cleveland coach?

I'd guess it's Miami 90% and 10% Cleveland (assuming those are the only two choices). Maybe Lebron talks Kyrie into signing the extension, Lebron knows that Embiid is the guy coming, and/or they can get Kevin (who signs an extension) for the #1 pick. But those are all tough to line up from Miami.

I just don't see it. I think the 3 Heat guys will opt in for one more year and think about it again 12 months from now.

I think he opts out, and eventually ends up one more year in Miami. I guess he can do that. Just sign the 1 year deal which he would have gotten anyway had he not opted out.

I think he owes it to himself to hear other offers.

I do think he would love to come back to Cleveland, but this team is too much of a mess right now. No coach, a superstar player who really had a bad year on and off the court, a busted first pick, and really this team is no further along than they were when Lebron left. This whole team has been based on potential for 4 years. That would be one hell of a leap of faith for Lebron to come here this year.

I am agreeing more and more who think he gives it one more year in Miami where they're still top dog in the east, and it gives the Cavs and a few more teams a chance to present a better case. I really believe there is mutual interest between Lebron and the Cavs on a return, it just doesn't seem like a good idea for him right now.

Luckily for the Cavs they had the first pick drop into their lap, there have been rumors of Kyrie Irving signing long term, and even a report a few days ago that Anthony Bennett has dropped 15 pounds, and is working out twice a day.