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I am excited about the fact that there are multiple units on the team experiencing both an infusion of depth and increased competition. It's a theme being duplicated all over the team. Starting at the OG position with both LG and RG unsettled and multiple players striving to be starters. Bitonio, Greco, Pinkston, Gilkey McQuistan, Faulk all vying to be ones.
Runningback, at least 6 RBs are in the mix. There will be competition for who makes the final 53 and who gets the most carries among those who do.
Cornerback, right now I think we keep a minimum of 5 guys on this unit. Haden, Gilbert, Skrine, Desir and Trufant. Considering the number of guys who have been signed for TC maybe the number of CBs we carry is higher. Seems as if we have a ton of guys competing at CB.
Wide Receiver, taking the Gordon pending suspension into consideration I surprise myself by not being either desperate or deflated by the team's WR situation. I looked at the WR who played in Shanahan's offense from 2010 to 2013, Garcon and Moss were the best of the lot in my opinion. I think the WRs available to the Browns will be equal to or better than those Washington receivers. A lot of unknowns here but also some vets with something left in the tank.
Then we have QB. I'm confident that Hoyer will push himself to the max to earn the starting spot. I hope Manziel observes how much Hoyer wants it and raised his game accordingly.
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That plus the OL, with Gilkey stepping up & with McQuistan wanting to start and both pushing Greco & Bitonio and visa versa. High level competition on the DL and at the LB position. LB's like Kirksey cross training at both inside and out. I'm excited to see this team play. 
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On paper, it's pretty exciting to think about.. can't argue that at all. I'll feel a lot better when we see some camp video and the preseason to see how it shakes out. Could be a lotta fun this year..  As for Gordon,, I'd rather they make a decision already. Let the team get on with or without him.. (no, I'm not saying he should be cut, that's insane)
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The thing I'm most excited about is that Gilkey, a late round pick deemed very raw just 1 year ago, has unseated an OG whos started with this franchise and an OG who started the Superbowl. Our OL is not dogmeat fellas their the pitbull.
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Quote:
The thing I'm most excited about is that Gilkey, a late round pick deemed very raw just 1 year ago, has unseated an OG whos started with this franchise and an OG who started the Superbowl. Our OL is not dogmeat fellas their the pitbull.
he hasn't really unseated anyone just yet. He is still behind Bitonio ..... and possibly behind Greco as well.
He is a big kid with some decent agility and solid strength .... so it would be nice to see him be able to step up and grab a job away from Greco ..... because I think that Greco is a solid Guard, and if Gilkey can unseat him, that would upgrade the OL even more.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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QB is the only massive glaring hole we have, but I think we finally are close to a team that can mask those deficiencies a bit.
I expect/hope to see box scores with 16-20 pass attempts.
If Manziel is the guy, bring him along like Pittsburgh did with Ben.
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Quote:
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The thing I'm most excited about is that Gilkey, a late round pick deemed very raw just 1 year ago, has unseated an OG whos started with this franchise and an OG who started the Superbowl. Our OL is not dogmeat fellas their the pitbull.
he hasn't really unseated anyone just yet. He is still behind Bitonio ..... and possibly behind Greco as well.
He is a big kid with some decent agility and solid strength .... so it would be nice to see him be able to step up and grab a job away from Greco ..... because I think that Greco is a solid Guard, and if Gilkey can unseat him, that would upgrade the OL even more.
I meant Pinkston and McQuisten but yeah I hope he unseats Greco too!
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j/c
It is good seeing multiple players fighting for a Starting Job. In years past, it seemed like Cleveland was looking at best of the wost to fill a roster.
Banner/Lombardi and now Farmer have done a nice job simply filling roster with quality depth. Let's hope these guys turn into solid starters. To think bench players could start for other teams...pinch me!!!
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I agree with the subject, can't say I'm sold we're there yet. We are throwing lots of rookies and a few free agents and calling it depth? We've been doing that for a decade.
Not saying I'm not cautiously optimistic, but we don't know that any of these guys can actually play.
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Gilkey will have to majorly improve just to make the team. He couldnt mirror his own shadow in a blocking drill one year ago.
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Quote:
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The thing I'm most excited about is that Gilkey, a late round pick deemed very raw just 1 year ago, has unseated an OG whos started with this franchise and an OG who started the Superbowl. Our OL is not dogmeat fellas their the pitbull.
he hasn't really unseated anyone just yet. He is still behind Bitonio ..... and possibly behind Greco as well.
He is a big kid with some decent agility and solid strength .... so it would be nice to see him be able to step up and grab a job away from Greco ..... because I think that Greco is a solid Guard, and if Gilkey can unseat him, that would upgrade the OL even more.
I meant Pinkston and McQuisten but yeah I hope he unseats Greco too!
I almost forget that Pinkston once started for us. I think that he is really going to have to fight just to make the team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Gilkey will have to majorly improve just to make the team. He couldnt mirror his own shadow in a blocking drill one year ago.
I was on another board while this one was down, people kept saying he looked good last year. So in additional to my remembering how bad he was I looked it up. He gave up 3 sacks in the Pittsburgh game, he only played 90 snaps the whole year and I remember at least one and I think it was two, full on blown assignments where Joe T got called for holding because he just reached out and grabbed the guy as he ran right past Gilkey to not get his QB killed.
He did not play well, but he was a late round pick from a small school converting to guard.
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jc
Not sure where all this unseating other players is coming from. Gilkey played pretty bad for us in limited time. If he can end up staying on this roster for a few years, I'll deem the pick rather successful.
Personally, I think the guy has a long way to go but it was only one year....he can improve.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Agreed. He was awful last year. Not sure where this revisionist history is coming from.
I think he'll be fighting Pinkston for a roster spot.
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Agreed. He was awful last year. Not sure where this revisionist history is coming from.
I think he'll be fighting Pinkston for a roster spot.
To put into prospective and when Lava was hurt, Gilkey, as a small school rookie, battled Cousins for the starting RG. This year Gilkey, as you are stating, will compete with Pink for a roster spot. In my opinion, battling against a once starting guard for a roster spot is a far cry better than battling Cousin for a roster spot.
I disagree with many about Gilkey being terrible. He needed work. I think more playing time would have helped. Then again, I, and the Redskins, disagree Lava was terrible too!!
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Agreed. He was awful last year. Not sure where this revisionist history is coming from.
I think he'll be fighting Pinkston for a roster spot.
Just an observation......
we here this same type of pre mature, unfounded optimism every year at this time. No games have been lost, no games have been played and hope springs eternal.
At this juncture, it has little to no substantive value.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I disagree with many about Gilkey being terrible.
I haven't seen many say he's terrible.
Just that he played terribly last year. And he did.
He was a 7th rounder from a small school...if he pans out, there's going to be growing pains.
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I think Gilkey looked terrible at times, but he also had some good moments. He certainly was no worse than Schwartz and that guy started all year.
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Quote:
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Agreed. He was awful last year. Not sure where this revisionist history is coming from.
I think he'll be fighting Pinkston for a roster spot.
Just an observation......
we here this same type of pre mature, unfounded optimism every year at this time. No games have been lost, no games have been played and hope springs eternal.
At this juncture, it has little to no substantive value.
I'm not sure if you are commenting on something specifically related to Gilkey or the topic as a whole. I admit to some optimism but more accurately its excitement at the prospects of having so many position battles fueled by an infusion of new players. The cornerbacks being a perfect example. Gilbert will see the field this year likely moving Skrine to the slot. Desir, Trufant, Berry and others will try to carve out roles.
This theme is being repeated all over the team. I'm also hearing small remarks from established players about their intentions to out perform other guys in their position groups. I think some of this competitive intensity contributed to the rumble between Gilkey and Taylor yesterday. I think this can't be anything but good for the club. If that makes my optimism unfounded I'll take it.
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Browns' RB Terrance West on Ben Tate not considering him a threat: 'I want to be the starter, and I'm going to practice like a starter' Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group Follow on Twitter on June 12, 2014 at 6:58 PM, updated June 12, 2014 at 7:04 PM Cleveland Browns 2014 BEREA, Ohio -- Browns running back Terrance West held his ground Thursday when informed that fellow back Ben Tate doesn't consider him much of a threat. Specifically, Tate said of the challenge from West that "there's nobody in that (running back) room that scares me'' and described the running back competition here 'really not anything.' Tate, the fifth-year pro signed away from Houston as an unrestricted free agent, also said that when he's on his game 'there's no one that can touch me or that's close to what I do.'' But West, the third-round pick from Towson, hopes to prove the veteran wrong. "Yeah, that's our job out here, to come out here and compete, push each and everyone forward to bring the best out of each other,'' said West. "That's what I'm here to do. I want to play. I want to be the starter, and I'm going to practice like a starter." West, who rushed for 2,509 yards and 41 touchdowns last year, knows he has to pay his dues. "Everybody had to be a rookie before they became a vet,'' he said. "I'm learning the playbook fast, and I'm feeling very good about it." West signed his contract on Wednesday, a four-year deal worth $2.796 million, including a $527,400 signing bonus. "When you play Pop Warner, when you play high school ball, when you play college, you're playing for free,'' he said. "Now it's a business and getting a check for it is amazing. But that's not going to change nothing. I've still got to take care of business on the field to get the next check." Fans coming out to training camp next month will notice West going hard every play and high-stepping in the open field. "Yeah, that's my signature move,'' he said. "I don't know, my body just takes over and does it. I don't even think about doing it. That's something I've been doing for a long time." He said the coaches haven't yet cautioned him about it. "They don't have a problem with it,'' he said. "As long as I make a person miss, they don't care. As long as I take care of that one-on-one and make them miss or run through them, they don't care. I've got my own thing.'' He admitted, "I'm not the fastest guy. I'm not the slowest guy. But I've got some good speed. Once I get past you, once I make a person miss, it's going to be hard for them to catch me. On the football field, it's all about angles, and I've been very good at taking angles." He predicted he'll separate from the pack once the pads come on next month. "Yeah, that's when you can see more out of me,'' he said. "That's when you can see the true players, when the pads come on. I break a lot of tackles, I make people miss, I can catch the ball and I can pass protect. They can see that now and it can push me forward to playing more." Despite the competition with Tate, the veteran has been helping the eager rookie. "Most of the backs, we help each other out,'' he said. "We push each other and we compete, but we also want to see each other succeed." It's not the quarterback competition, but it should provide some training camp sparks. web page
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On the surface it wouldn't seem as if a change to a zone-blocking would necessarily help Gilkey as I remember the footage I saw of him 1) at OT and 2) he used his physical advantage to maul guys. Wondering how this change of blocking scheme will impact his development?
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Browns' RB Terrance West on Ben Tate not considering him a threat: 'I want to be the starter, and I'm going to practice like a starter
This kind of thing, that's what's getting me geeked up!
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Specifically, Tate said of the challenge from West that "there's nobody in that (running back) room that scares me'' and described the running back competition here 'really not anything.'
Tate, the fifth-year pro signed away from Houston as an unrestricted free agent, also said that when he's on his game 'there's no one that can touch me or that's close to what I do.''
Dick.
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But I thought last year you said we needed players with a chip on their shoulders and attitude?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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But I thought last year you said we needed players with a chip on their shoulders and attitude?
Dicks? 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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I think Gilkey looked terrible at times, but he also had some good moments. He certainly was no worse than Schwartz and that guy started all year.
I didn't get to see every game because I work the 12-1800 shift 50% of every Sunday. But the games that I did see, Schwartz improved throughout the season. He had an AWFUL first couple games, especially that one vs Miami. I think it was Miami and then Baltimore. Miami he faced Cameron Wake. That guy is GOOD. And then Baltimore he get torched by Elvis Dummerville.
After that I wasn't that upset with him. Didn't think he was THAT bad. May be a sophmore slump. But mixed in with Lavao/Cousins/whoever else he was next to couldn't help him (or the guard for that matter). But from what I remember, he improved throughout the season.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Maybe I did and I agree w/that, but I'm talking about guys w/a chip on their shoulder against the other team.
This is the second time Tate has mouthed-off against his OWN team.
I don't dig that, Pit.
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I can see your point, but at the same time I want all of our players to feel they are the best. To have that confidence that they will be the starter and have more ability than anyone else at the position.
I questioned the signing because he's had a very hard time staying healthy as a back up RB, much less a starter.
I guess there's a fine line between cocky and confident, but I like players who feel they will be the starter and have no doubt in their own ability. While having talent is the main key, I believe attitude can play a part in success.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I see your point.
We'll see how it plays out.
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Every year we talk about depth,
Depth will exist when 8 players on the roster are different than from the year before.
This year the number will be in the range of 15-18, maybe as high as 20. That is not depth.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
Every year we talk about depth,
Depth will exist when 8 players on the roster are different than from the year before.
This year the number will be in the range of 15-18, maybe as high as 20. That is not depth.
After more than 40 veteran player transactions, Browns' roster depth and competitiveness have been improved
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=33671
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Every year we talk about depth,
Depth will exist when 8 players on the roster are different than from the year before.
This year the number will be in the range of 15-18, maybe as high as 20. That is not depth.
You lost me. Browns starters can compete. They can't play the whole game and they can't all stay healthy. Depth allows starters to have enough energy to finish it in the end. Depth creates pressure on starters to keep their job elevating their game.
When was the last time you saw battles at several positions contesting for the one spot? We are not talking two guys. At WR, RB, DB and OG we see three or four guys battling. Some are pointing out Taylor getting into it (pulling hair) with Gilkey. This is OTA's and the pressure is already seen. I believe Pettine closed the Country Club!!!
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Unfortunately, I don't think better players = more winning.
They might win more, but it's not just because they get better players. It seems the prevailing view has come to be, get better players, get a better team, and that results in always looking for a better player at every position on a team with so many parts.
The team has to work as a group that acts as a whole, a one unit that is an unstoppable force, and you never get that if no one gets familiar with each other.
And Danny DeVito is just such a talented artist. And that he does so many different kinds of roles. Really comedic genius in our time, he goes unappreciated. And 5 foot whatever, handsome as a golf ball, he's such a talent to have such a career.
His career might example-ify that overcoming+ longevity = something that might produce more wins. Who knows.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
Unfortunately, I don't think better players = more winning.
They might win more, but it's not just because they get better players. It seems the prevailing view has come to be, get better players, get a better team, and that results in always looking for a better player at every position on a team with so many parts.
The team has to work as a group that acts as a whole, a one unit that is an unstoppable force, and you never get that if no one gets familiar with each other.
And Danny DeVito is just such a talented artist. And that he does so many different kinds of roles. Really comedic genius in our time, he goes unappreciated. And 5 foot whatever, handsome as a golf ball, he's such a talent to have such a career.
His career might example-ify that overcoming+ longevity = something that might produce more wins. Who knows.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
::starts slow clap::
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Quote:
Quote:
Every year we talk about depth,
Depth will exist when 8 players on the roster are different than from the year before.
This year the number will be in the range of 15-18, maybe as high as 20. That is not depth.
You lost me. Browns starters can compete. They can't play the whole game and they can't all stay healthy. Depth allows starters to have enough energy to finish it in the end. Depth creates pressure on starters to keep their job elevating their game.
When was the last time you saw battles at several positions contesting for the one spot? We are not talking two guys. At WR, RB, DB and OG we see three or four guys battling. Some are pointing out Taylor getting into it (pulling hair) with Gilkey. This is OTA's and the pressure is already seen. I believe Pettine closed the Country Club!!!
No, they have the potential to compete. It all looks good on paper, and I believe that Farmer is moving the team in the right direction.
However, the point is, and will always be, that a roster that turns 1/3rd of its players over per year, is unlikely to produce as a winner. I don't have the numbers. but I would suspect that it is in the range of 20 percent chance of having a winning record. There are always exceptions, Indy after Luck, SF after Harbaugh, but they are the exception and not the rule.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
Specifically, Tate said of the challenge from West that "there's nobody in that (running back) room that scares me'' and described the running back competition here 'really not anything.'
When I first read that quote by Tate earlier I hope it would set a fire under the other backs and it seems it has. I never took it as Tate being an ass. I just figured it was a calculated move.
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Quote:
Quote:
Specifically, Tate said of the challenge from West that "there's nobody in that (running back) room that scares me'' and described the running back competition here 'really not anything.'
When I first read that quote by Tate earlier I hope it would set a fire under the other backs and it seems it has. I never took it as Tate being an ass. I just figured it was a calculated move.
Yeah, I have no problem with the quote at all.
In the same piece he was quoted as saying:
"He's a rookie so he has some difficult moments,'' said Tate. "He has some flashes of good moments, so right now, I'm just there trying to help him out through every aspect of the game, because this team is going to need both of us. I think he can be a definitely good quality running back, so I'm a team guy, so I'm trying to help all the running backs, not just him.''
I really don't understand what the issue is.
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I think that this team has enough talent overall to be a playoff team. The major question is the guy under Center. Is Manziel the guy? Can he be ready from day 1? If not, can Hoyer be the man? QB makes all the difference, as we saw last year. If the team believes in the guy under Center, and if he can produce, then good things can happen. If not, well then we're 4-12 or 5-11 again.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,124
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,124 |
Quote:
I think that this team has enough talent overall to be a playoff team.
I do too, but maaaaaaaaaaaan... a lot of 'good karma' will have to come together for that to actually happen.
I like a LOT of what I've seen so far, and believe that it sets us up well for the future, but I can't shake the old apprehension that NONE of these guys have actually worked together on an autumn afternoon in the NFL reg season. That's (freakkin') HUGE. For me, it's an even bigger 'elephant in the room' than the ongoing QB question.
Though we have the talent (on paper), I have deep doubts that we'll be "This Year's Cinderella."
The QB spot scares me the most. Pretty much everyone we have is an unknown.... and there's an even-odds chance that we STILL don't have an answer to our perennial QB question.
I love what I've seen/heard from Pettine- as an off-season HC, but he hasn't yet coached a single play in an NFL game. It's not a fear, concern, worry or issue at this point, but it IS a valid "x-factor" to consider when looking at our postseason hopes. He could be the next Belichick or Shurmer, for all we know right now.
I'm intrigued about the (again, sigh-) "New Browns," but my interest is more along the lines of anticipating the next plot twist on 'Person Of Interest' than enthusiastic anticipation of AFCN dominance. Too much has to come together just right for a hair-raising run to be possible.
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OK... that's the end of "Clempragmatist's" reasoned post. Now, for the 'Clemdreamer' post... from someone who is still alive, and hopes to see a (mis-named) Lombardi trophy hoisted above a celebrating Cleveland team:
What an insanely 'Browns-like' and wonderful story it would make, if this particular team 'pulled a Seattle'... and ran to the goal line this upcoming season...
I'm with Jabaal Sheard: "I want to be here when this town erupts."
I can't take the suspense...
,
Clemmy
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,547
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,547 |
If the QB play comes together, we can compete for a playoff spot. If not, then we'll struggle to win 5 games yet again.
I really think that it is that simple.
QB will be our biggest question, until it is not. If we get to the point where we are not concerned about the QB, we'll have a winning team.
After QB, the only real areas of concern for me are WR and ILB. We have a lot of veterans at WR, and that could be vital in working with the WCO, where precision is more important than anything else. I actually think that we'll be OK here.
ILB is the other concern I have. We will see competition between Kirksey, Robertson, Eubanks, and Carder. Hopefully one of those guys will be competent. If so, then our defense will be set, with superb depth at DL and in the secondary.
QB is the key. That position can bring the rest all together, or force it to fall apart once again.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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