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It starts ... ESPN radio is melting down now. 
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CIRCUS!!!
TURN DOWN FOR WHAT?!!?!?!
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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A few things to consider ....
1) ESPN Radio just made a great point about Lebron going to the Western Conference ... Why would he want to? He would have to go through murder's row every playoffs just to GET to the finals. Even the Spurs struggle to get out of the West
2) EPSN Radio was also trying to make the point that this was just the start of all three Heat players opting out so that they could all re-structure and bring in a fourth superstar, and that Pat Riley knew about this all along because it's all part of the plan ... Okay, sure. But then why haven't all 3 players announced that they were opting out together? Why did Riley have a semi-angry press conference a week ago where he made references to people needing to keep loyal and staying with what they've built? Also, to fit a fourth player under their cap ... all four players would have to sign for about $14 million, plus they would need to gut their roster ... leaving nothing but Chris Anderson and Norris Cole. Everything else they sign would have to be vet minimums or mid-level exceptions.
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Regardless of him staying in Miami or leaving, opting out is only the first action that had to happen. It doesn't tell me anything about the coming decis...choice he'll make.
If I were him, I'd probably stay in Miami but demand Wade take 6th man money because he just can't play. Even then, they would need another star to take Wade's role and I don't see them fitting Melo in their cap (unless all of the Big 3 take like $12/year).
I still wonder about NY (Nets or Knicks). It was his dream to play in NY. I don't know what those two teams have in cap space or problems, but we'll see.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
A few things to consider ....
1) ESPN Radio just made a great point about Lebron going to the Western Conference ... Why would he want to? He would have to go through murder's row every playoffs just to GET to the finals. Even the Spurs struggle to get out of the West
2) EPSN Radio was also trying to make the point that this was just the start of all three Heat players opting out so that they could all re-structure and bring in a fourth superstar, and that Pat Riley knew about this all along because it's all part of the plan ... Okay, sure. But then why haven't all 3 players announced that they were opting out together? Why did Riley have a semi-angry press conference a week ago where he made references to people needing to keep loyal and staying with what they've built? Also, to fit a fourth player under their cap ... all four players would have to sign for about $14 million, plus they would need to gut their roster ... leaving nothing but Chris Anderson and Norris Cole. Everything else they sign would have to be vet minimums or mid-level exceptions.
I wanna comment on 2), "part of the plan...." theory. Wow! It would make sense if he REALLY wants to stay in Miami. Kinda sneaky (maybe that's not the best word to use) in a way, but whatever. We shall see.
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I don't know what will happen but I think it's crazy and so anti-Cleveland that the Cavs can actually sign Lebron AND Melo, plus either draft #1 or trade that pick, as well as extend Kyrie by use of the Bird rights. That's INSANE.
I'm not saying that's going to happen, so don't jump down my throat, but that at least raises an eyebrow. Wow.
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I don't know what will happen but I think it's crazy and so anti-Cleveland that the Cavs can actually sign Lebron AND Melo, plus either draft #1 or trade that pick, as well as extend Kyrie by use of the Bird rights. That's INSANE.
I'm not saying that's going to happen, so don't jump down my throat, but that at least raises an eyebrow. Wow.
Like you said, very unlikely and too many moving pieces. I'm still not buying Kyrie staying.
But ya, Kyrie+Melo+Lebron would be a nice "Big-3" to have. Mix in Dion, TT, Hawes...interesting. Won't happen though.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I don't know what will happen but I think it's crazy and so anti-Cleveland that the Cavs can actually sign Lebron AND Melo, plus either draft #1 or trade that pick, as well as extend Kyrie by use of the Bird rights. That's INSANE.
I'm not saying that's going to happen, so don't jump down my throat, but that at least raises an eyebrow. Wow.
The thing about signing Melo though ... To get under the cap, Lebron and Melo would have to take about $15 million again ... pretty much the same thing that they would have to do if they wanted to play in Miami together. Then you also have the same problem that they woudl have in Miami ... where would they play? They're both Small Forwards. Chances are the Cavs are taking Wiggins, so both the Heat and Cavs would have SG's ... that means Lebron would have to play the 4, which I think he said he'd rather not do.
It's interesting though ... I honestly don't think Carmello wants to come to Cleveland anyway, so I don't think it's going to happen. Plus the whole position thing ... but honestly, all things being equal, would you rather play with a very young roster of Irving, Wiggins, Melo, TT and a bench with Dion, Hawes and a few others ... or an aging, but veteran roster of Wade, Melo, Bosh, Birdman and a bench of vet-minimum guys?
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a lot of that can't be answered but as far as those 2 playing the same position and being on the floor at the same time, I always take the approach that any body can play with anyone else as long as they can defend different positions. I think Lebron can defend quite a few depending on the team they are playing. Melo obviously is not known for defending but the one time he was involved in a serious playoff run, against LA a few years ago, he actually held his own.
I have a feeling the next 3 or 4 days are going to be a wild ride for this league.
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Someone named Swerdlow B posted this comment on Yahoo, I thought it was interesting enough to repost:
"this dynamic is very misunderstood by most, including the media experts: james is not the one that has the leverage to change the situation in miami. "opting out" was the "team" thing to do. james has many more years left in his career - of course he was going to opt out and try for another long term deal. the more influential variable is what do wade and riley do with each other? wade would love to be able to opt out and sign another deal like james is going to get. but riley saw the same thing everybody else did in the playoffs: a fallen superstar that isn't going to be worth another long term deal, even if it is at a discount. so wade's only other option to get the brass ring (the big money!) is to NOT opt out and get his $40mil the next two years. that's going to screw this whole thing up. because then you burn up too much cap room on a player who's a shadow of himself. the three co-conspirators have been paid equally until now. this can still work but wade and bosh are going to have to take significantly lesser deals than james is going to get. can their egos take being relegated to supporting cast members? we will see. if not, it's back to cleveland. this is all on wade, not james."
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Honestly though, other than his lack of a post-up game ... I think Lebron would be best suited as a 4. I think he would love it defensively. He wouldn't have to wear himself out chasing around wing guys and he could get all those weak-side help blocks that he likes to do.
On offense, he could play more as a stretch 4 and open things up in the lane for everyone else.
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Honestly though, other than his lack of a post-up game ... I think Lebron would be best suited as a 4. I think he would love it defensively. He wouldn't have to wear himself out chasing around wing guys and he could get all those weak-side help blocks that he likes to do.
On offense, he could play more as a stretch 4 and open things up in the lane for everyone else.
Eventually he is probably going to be one of those stretch 4's. Especially when his speed isn't what it used to be. Probably the same way Jordan adapted once he didn't have his young legs. Posting up more, and developing the mid range game.
As far as Wade goes, don't you think there are some NBA teams out there that would give Wade a decent deal? I'm not saying max but I bet they would out do Miami. What's his play? Stay home for one year and worry about it in 365 days, or go and get a deal that might not be there in a year?
I think you can say the same for Bosh, there could be a deal there this summer that may not be the same as next year.
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Yeah, this thing hinges on Wade.
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I want Melo nowhere near this team.
Tackles are tackles.
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Yeah, this thing hinges on Wade.
+1
Wade is the key, maybe Bosh too. I don't know Bosh's market value, but we all know Wade's is that of a bench player right now. Maybe a small market would want him for his name, but that knee isn't going to get better, only worse.
Would Wade trade $40m for $20m (or less) and get another title chase with Lebron? He does already have three rings. If I were him, I'd keep the $40m, thank Lebron for the two additional rings , and retire two years from now.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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"this dynamic is very misunderstood by most, including the media experts: james is not the one that has the leverage to change the situation in miami. "opting out" was the "team" thing to do. james has many more years left in his career - of course he was going to opt out and try for another long term deal. the more influential variable is what do wade and riley do with each other? wade would love to be able to opt out and sign another deal like james is going to get. but riley saw the same thing everybody else did in the playoffs: a fallen superstar that isn't going to be worth another long term deal, even if it is at a discount. so wade's only other option to get the brass ring (the big money!) is to NOT opt out and get his $40mil the next two years. that's going to screw this whole thing up. because then you burn up too much cap room on a player who's a shadow of himself. the three co-conspirators have been paid equally until now. this can still work but wade and bosh are going to have to take significantly lesser deals than james is going to get. can their egos take being relegated to supporting cast members? we will see. if not, it's back to cleveland. this is all on wade, not james."
It's a great point ... and something I've sort of been saying for the last few weeks now. Lebron left Cleveland because he was on a roster full of aging players making big money which left no flexibility for the Cavs to get better. In Miami, he's now on a roster with an aging D.Wade and a so-so Chris Bosh who are clogging up the salary cap and leaving the team with no financial flexibility.
This really is on Wade though ... does he opt out and take considerably less money to make the situation in Miami work? Or does he take the the last two years on his contract giving him $41 million? I honestly don't know. Would another team give him a max deal? Would he opt out and take half of what he's making now to make Lebron happy?
I get what the Yahoo poster is saying though ... it's basically that Lebron opted out to put the pressure on Wade and Bosh. Of the three, he's the only one that should be earning a max contract now. If the other two choose to keep their current contract, then maybe Lebron leaves to find greener pastures ... if they opt out as well, then they should be the ones taking the pay-cut to make room for new guys, not Lebron.
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Yes, but as I said in my post, why would a 3-ring Wade give up $20-30m to be a role-player off the bench so Lebron can retool the team in Miami? Maybe giving up $3-6m, but $20-30? That's a lot of coin.
It wouldn't shock me to see Wade do that, but business is business. Go ask Juan Gonzalez if he'd like a re-do when he told the Tigers no on that 10-year $140m contract offer. He ended up making $50-60m the rest of his career.
Who knows, maybe Wade has more money than he can spend and doesn't care.
But yes, Wade is the key.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I want Melo nowhere near this team.
I'd be willing to bet Melo concurs.
There's a 0% chance he ends up in Cleveland.
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I'm not sure he does either. The fact that they haven't opted out already makes me think that this isn't some sort of "grand plan" to all re-structure and make things work. The pressure is really on Riley, Wade and Bosh to make things happen. The longer they go without opting out, the better ...
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I want Melo nowhere near this team.
I'd be willing to bet Melo concurs.
There's a 0% chance he ends up in Cleveland.
While I agree that Melo probably wants to be no-where near Cleveland, I'm not so sure I'd say there's a 0% chance. If Lebron decides he's coming here because Miami can't figure out their salaries ... and Melo really wants to go ring chasing (which I think he does), then Cleveland might be his best chance for that. Plus we have the cap room to give him a respectable salary. Of course all that predicates on Lebron wanting to come back in the first place which is low odds to begin with ... so I'd put it at maybe 3%.
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A few things to consider ....
1) ESPN Radio just made a great point about Lebron going to the Western Conference ... Why would he want to? He would have to go through murder's row every playoffs just to GET to the finals. Even the Spurs struggle to get out of the West
2) EPSN Radio was also trying to make the point that this was just the start of all three Heat players opting out so that they could all re-structure and bring in a fourth superstar, and that Pat Riley knew about this all along because it's all part of the plan ... Okay, sure. But then why haven't all 3 players announced that they were opting out together? Why did Riley have a semi-angry press conference a week ago where he made references to people needing to keep loyal and staying with what they've built? Also, to fit a fourth player under their cap ... all four players would have to sign for about $14 million, plus they would need to gut their roster ... leaving nothing but Chris Anderson and Norris Cole. Everything else they sign would have to be vet minimums or mid-level exceptions.
Chris Anderson has already said that he is opting out, and will chase a bigger deal this off-season.
The only player the heat have under contract at this point is Cole. Haslem has a player's option. The owner of the Heat has said that he will not go into the luxury tax again, and Lebron has indicated that he will not re-sign without roster upgrades. This, to me, appears to be a massive impasse. Maybe Riley has another trick up his sleeve ...... or maybe all of the cards have fallen out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I want Melo nowhere near this team.
I'd be willing to bet Melo concurs.
There's a 0% chance he ends up in Cleveland.
While I agree that Melo probably wants to be no-where near Cleveland, I'm not so sure I'd say there's a 0% chance. If Lebron decides he's coming here because Miami can't figure out their salaries ... and Melo really wants to go ring chasing (which I think he does), then Cleveland might be his best chance for that. Plus we have the cap room to give him a respectable salary. Of course all that predicates on Lebron wanting to come back in the first place which is low odds to begin with ... so I'd put it at maybe 3%.
Never going to happen.
Melo's wife calls the shots. Zero chance she lives in Cleveland.
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Is he really that whipped?? 
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Honestly though, other than his lack of a post-up game ... I think Lebron would be best suited as a 4. I think he would love it defensively. He wouldn't have to wear himself out chasing around wing guys and he could get all those weak-side help blocks that he likes to do.
On offense, he could play more as a stretch 4 and open things up in the lane for everyone else.
Eventually he is probably going to be one of those stretch 4's. Especially when his speed isn't what it used to be. Probably the same way Jordan adapted once he didn't have his young legs. Posting up more, and developing the mid range game.
As far as Wade goes, don't you think there are some NBA teams out there that would give Wade a decent deal? I'm not saying max but I bet they would out do Miami. What's his play? Stay home for one year and worry about it in 365 days, or go and get a deal that might not be there in a year?
I think you can say the same for Bosh, there could be a deal there this summer that may not be the same as next year.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Wade under contract for 2 more years if he does nothing? If I am reading you right, it almost seems that you are under the impressions that he only has one year left. Or ..... this just struck me in the head like a falling anvil in the Road Runner cartoons ....... do you mean that Wade could opt out in a year again?
I think that a lot of weaknesses were exposed in Miami in the Finals. The Spurs played a lot of "Let Lebron get his, and stop the rest". "The rest" couldn't hold up their end of the bargain when they had to play against players actually defending them instead of the defense panicking over trying to slide to help on Lebron always leaving someone wide open.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Supposedly Wade has two years left at $20.5 per year.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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The last two years of all their contracts are player options. They would make $20 mil this year and $21 mil next year. By the way, I had no idea that Anderson had a player option this year. The two sites I read both said he was under contract this year with no player option.
The cap is also going to be around $63 million, and they have one player under contract at 2.1 million. So if the Heat plan to bring in a big 4th ... divide 60 million four ways. That's either $15m for each or $20 mil for Lebron and $40 mil divided 3 ways for the rest. So Wade and Bosh would be looking at a $5m to $10m-a-year paycut if they opt out.
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Is he really that whipped??
I don't know if I'd call one's wife having a say in where she's going to live being 'whipped', but, yeah, it's no secret that LaLa has a ton of pull in regards to where he lands.
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Maybe Wade signs a 4 year $41 deal. Same money, more years, and he accepts a bench role. But would the Heat want to tie themselves to his knee for 4 years?
Same with Bosh I suppose. $40 for two years of work would be tough to give away.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Supposedly Wade has two years left at $20.5 per year.
That's what I thought.
I just can't see him taking the significant cut that he would have to take in order to add a bench, let alone another superstar.
A solid bench will cost the team between $20-25 million. (not to mention the 5th starter)
The luxury tax threshold is set at $70 million. Exceptions and exemptions, as I understand them, allow you to go over the salary cap, but do nothing to forgive a luxury tax hit.
That means that the team could only spend $45-50 million on the 3-4 superstars.
I see no way 4 of them take that massive a hit just to play together, People talk about the "big 3" giving up money to play together originally, but they didn't give up anywhere near what they would have to in order to continue playing together.
How many endorsements does Bosh get? I have never seen one that I can think of. His contract is his money, and as he has become more and more exposed in Miami, I doubt that he is still automatically that max deal guy. He is a good player ..... but one of the greatest? I don't think so.
Wade is in real trouble. He can make $42 million over the next 2 seasons by doing nothing. (IIRC) I cannot imagine any team giving him anywhere near that over the next 2 years. If he takes a $10 million/year deal, he would need 4 years just to not lose money. If he is slowing down and badly injury prone at 32, what will he be at 34? 35? 36? I won't pretend to know his financial situation, but I really can't recall too many 32 year old players voluntarily cutting their salaries in half. I can't imagine it happening here ..... but the 3 players in Miami have surprised me before.
Lebron was mad when the Heat amnestied Mike Miller, and didn't replace him with another NBA capable shooter. If the Heat are only able to re-sign the big 3, and a modest bench/5th starter, then I could see him taking his talents elsewhere. I think that he wants what he wants, period, and he isn't about to negotiate. He can carry a team anywhere, and that really is what it came down to in the Finals.
In the East, I think that the Cavaliers stack up as well as anyone with having a superstar player, and very solid depth. I think that the Cavaliers would have to, at the very least, be a consideration for Lebron. (plus a 2nd potential superstar if we draft Wiggins and put him at SG ....... or move Lebron to PF as some suggested if the Heat were to have signed Melo, and insert Wiggins at SF. Given the young roster, 1st pick in the draft, and excess of cap space, I think that the Cavaliers have a lot to offer Lebron.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Is he really that whipped??
I don't know if I'd call one's wife having a say in where she's going to live being 'whipped', but, yeah, it's no secret that LaLa has a ton of pull in regards to where he lands.
I'd call turning down good money and the chance to fulfill a dream of winning a championship ONLY because your wife doesn't want to live there ... "whipped". I agree it plays a significant factor, which is why the chance is really low to begin with ... but if it's his best chance to win a championship (which I really think he wants at this point), then I think he could talk his wife into it. Heck I know plenty of athletes that have their wives and families live in a different city than where they play.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Report: Heat's Chris Andersen will opt out, become free agent - CBSSports.com http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bask...come-free-agentAs far as bringing players in ...... their owner has said that he will not pay the luxury tax again this coming year. They have to have a roster beyond the "big 3, or 4". The Heat spent roughly $20 million on the "rest" of their roster this season, and James was unhappy. Their total salary hit was $80 million, with a luxury cap threshold of $70 million. The tax is a $3.25/$1 tax, so the Heat paid a luxury tax of $32.5 million, in addition to their salaries. Once again, their owner has said that he will not do that again. That means that they have to squeeze everything into a sub $70 million cap. If a "big 3 or 4" squeezed into only $60 million, that would leave only $10 million to fill out the other 11 spots. Norris Cole makes $2 million this coming season. They would probably have to move him, and also trade away their 1st round pick, because they could not afford to take on a guaranteed deal. Haslem has a $4.6 million player's option. If he re-ups, then it's game over. No way they fit anything with him at over $4 million. Even if they have a "big 4" they would not be able to be on the court all the time. Assuming that they had that whole $10 million to sign 11 players to round out their option, what are they going to get for that? They would need to raid the YMCA and the D League. Once the "big 4" sat down for a breather, the Heat would get destroyed by most teams. They better not have any injuries to those 4 players, because that would be catastrophic. If it were me, I would hope that all 4 opt out, and bring back Lebron and maybe Bosh ...... and present Lebrn with a plan that included a deep and talented bench, in addition to adding capable starters at the other 3 starting positions. That would be a team more likely to compete for a championship than a big 3 or 4, who have no bench whatsoever. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,396 Likes: 1364
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,396 Likes: 1364 |
Quote:
Quote:
I want Melo nowhere near this team.
I'd be willing to bet Melo concurs.
There's a 0% chance he ends up in Cleveland.
Fine by me.
Tackles are tackles.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,396 Likes: 1364
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,396 Likes: 1364 |
Sam Amico Quote:
While dissecting draft options, sources say Cavs also exploring options on how to house LeBron, Carmelo and Kyrie under salary cap.
https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO
Tackles are tackles.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Just another note ... I know the media has talked about having Carmello or Lebron go to teams like Houston, Chicago or the Clippers. I just don't see how. All three are over the cap. They would basically have get Miami to agree to do a sign-and-trade and take back a bunch of junk to get them onto the roster. Would Miami really want to do that? They could just say "no" and they would be forced to sign for the mid-level exception. The reason it worked originally for Miami was that Miami had the cap room to sign everyone out-right. If the Cavs wanted to they could of forced Lebron to sign for a few million less. But it made sense to sign-and-trade with Miami to get a couple of draft pick assets basically for free, while Lebron got his slightly higher deal. It was worth it for the Cavs.
Why would Miami want to do that though? Let's say Lebron or Carmello wanted to sign for the Bulls. To do a sign and trade, Miami or NY would have to take on $15-$20 million worth of Heinrich-like salary from the Bulls to make it work. Would they really want to do that for a couple of draft picks?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
LOL ... I loved this joke on Twitter ... "Miami Heat fans are now also opting for Free Agency"
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
Sam Amico
Quote:
While dissecting draft options, sources say Cavs also exploring options on how to house LeBron, Carmelo and Kyrie under salary cap.
https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO
Disect all you want. Not gonna happen .
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
Come on gilbert, lets get this done. Melo, james and kyrie. What team could top that? Way better team than the old big 3 in miami.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
The Clippers make a lot of sense. While the West is tougher than the East, a trio of CP3, James, and Griffin is pretty unstoppable. They would also be in L.A. and have Doc Rivers so they would be able to attract all of the best free agents. If they were able to keep J.J. Redick that team would be ridiculous.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum So, where will LeBron end up
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