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Cleveland man caught up in gun debate Posted by Damian G. Guevara and Patrick O’Donnell April 23, 2007 19:56PM Categories: Breaking News, Crime Damon Wells is the man gun supporters imagined when they fought for the right to carry concealed weapons. He had a permit to carry his gun, and he had the gun on him when a pair of teenage thieves approached him Saturday night on his front porch. When one of the youths pulled a gun, Wells whipped out his and shot one of the boys multiple times in the chest, police said. Arthur Buford, 15, died after stumbling away and collapsing on a sidewalk near East 134th Street and Kinsman Road. City prosecutors decided Monday that Wells, 25, was justified and would not be charged for what appears to be the first time a concealed-carry permit holder has shot and killed an attacker. Nonetheless, the shooting reignited the debate that roared three years ago when Ohio's concealed-carry law took effect. Gun supporters said the weapon saved Wells' life. Opponents said it took Buford's - that the 15-year-old might be alive if a citizen had not been armed. An angry throng of about 30 youths gathered Monday and set up a memorial at the intersection where Buford, a freshman at John F. Kennedy High School, died. His cousin, Tameka Foster, 21, questioned why police refused to punish Buford's shooter. "They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead." Buford's accomplice disappeared after the shooting and had not been caught Monday night. Police found a .38-caliber handgun in the mail chute of a nearby house. They believe it belonged to Buford or the other suspect, Lt. Thomas Stacho said. Police took a .40-caliber Smith and Wesson firearm from Wells, the police report shows. Both sides of the gun debate said it was sad that a teenager died. "It's tragic," said Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye Firearm Association. "Anytime somebody dies it's tragic, but it's hard to have any sympathy when he chose to have a gun and go threaten somebody's life." Irvine said it was "great that a potential victim is able to continue his life instead of having a criminal take it." Toby Hoover, of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said she had not heard of any other fatal shooting involving a concealed-carry permit holder. "This is one of the few where they actually used it to stop a crime," Hoover said. But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here." A man who answered phone a number for Wells refused to comment and hung up. No one answered the door at Wells' home. Plain Dealer reporters Jesse Tinsley and Brie Zelter and researcher Cheryl Diamond contributed to this story. Link
Last edited by Referee00; 04/24/07 08:55 AM.
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sounds like the guy was in the right. It is sad a 15 year old died but it also is sad he held someone up at gun point.
Last edited by Referee00; 04/24/07 08:55 AM.
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Quote:
Gun supporters said the weapon saved Wells' life. Opponents said it took Buford's - that the 15-year-old might be alive if a citizen had not been armed.
The 15 year old might be alive alright, and Mr. Wells might be dead. The 15 year old chose this confrontation, Mr. Wells chose not to be a victim. Just what grounds do these "opponents" have?
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An angry throng of about 30 youths gathered Monday and set up a memorial at the intersection where Buford, a freshman at John F. Kennedy High School, died.
His cousin, Tameka Foster, 21, questioned why police refused to punish Buford's shooter. "They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead."
Dear angry throng: Buford entered this man's property and threatened him with a deadly weapon. Your cousin the thief is not the victim in this, Mr. Wells is. They "let that man run out freely" because he did nothing wrong. Your cousin is dead because of his own decision to threaten a man's life at his home.
Just what pray tell do these people think Mr. Wells should have done? Just succomb to the criminal's demands and hope he doesn't get killed?
Mr. Wells' life will never be the same. He had to witness the death of a 15 yo child by his hand. He has to listen to these moronic arguments against the action he took. He is the ONLY victim in this sorry situation.
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Just what grounds do these "opponents" have?
Thugdom is fine and acceptable behavior. Teen-agers running around with guns and commiting gun crimes is perfectly normal behavior.
But stopping them from making you a victim is wrong.
At least that's what I get out of it....................
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agreed... Ask that "throng" had someone walked up to them, even on the street, and pointed a gun at them, if they would have just stood there, I bet 50% of them would have said "hell no, I'd pop a cap in his arse."
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Link CLEVELAND—A man who has a permit to carry a concealed gun shot and killed one of two teenage robbery suspects he encountered on his front porch, police said. City prosecutors decided yesterday that the 25-year-old Cleveland man was justified and would not be charged in the shooting Saturday night of 15-year-old Arthur Buford, a freshman at John F. Kennedy High School. Buford and another teen approached the man on his porch and one of the youths pulled a gun, prompting the resident to pull his gun and shoot Buford several times in the chest, police said. Police took a .40-caliber Smith and Wesson from the man as evidence, according to a police report. Toby Hoover, director of the Toledo-based Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said she had not heard of any other fatal shooting involving someone who has a permit to carry a concealed gun under the state's 3-year-old law. About 30 youths gathered Monday at the intersection where Buford died and set up a memorial. His cousin, Tameka Foster, 21, questioned the decision against prosecuting the shooter. "They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead." Buford's alleged accomplice fled after and shooting and has not been caught. Police believe a .38-caliber handgun they found in the mail chute of a nearby house belonged to Buford or the other suspect, Lt. Thomas Stacho said. Quote:
They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead.
Uhhh, maybe your cousin should't be pulling guns on people.
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I understand that this Foster lady is grieving for the loss of her cousin but geez.. Quote:
Quote:
They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead.
But are people just stupid,, if this Buford kid pulled a gun and shot the guy that ended up shooting him,,, would she be defending him? Probably! But that's just stupid,
What kinda drugs are some of the idiots taking.
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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someone posted this under the gun-control thread, but it could probably use it's own thread for debate. The Gun control on has grown rather large.
There's a few comments there about it already that some may want to read as well.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 04/24/07 08:42 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I figured someone might have, but I didn't feel like browsing through the last several pages to see if that was the case. Refs, remove if necessary.
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proof that this law is just, in line with the 2nd.
one less little thug on the streets imo.
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...But are people just stupid,, ...
Ignorance runs rampant in the ghetto.
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Quote:
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...But are people just stupid,, ...
Ignorance runs rampant in the ghetto.
Nothing to do with the ghetto. This same sediment would be made regardless. People don't take responsibility for themselves, and their family never see their own family members at fault for things.
people are always looking to blame someone else, rather than look at the situation for what it really is.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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This always makes me feel bad for the shooter. He was forced to choose, live or die. He chose to defend his life by whatever it took. Now everyday of his life he has to live with it. I am glad he chose to live and defend himself. I hope that he can get through this, and continue on with a normal life.
I hope that I am never put in his situation.
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This always makes me feel bad for the shooter. He was forced to choose, live or die. He chose to defend his life by whatever it took. Now everyday of his life he has to live with it.
Personally I think we should have a parade for this guy.
15 year old or 55 year old. The thug got what he deserved. The reaction of the throng is one of the things that ills this country today.
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An angry throng of about 30 youths gathered Monday and set up a memorial at the intersection where Buford, a freshman at John F. Kennedy High School, died.
this part also got me too. why set up a memorial to honor a person who was killed trying to rob someone? why is this worth honoring?
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Ted Nugent said,"that Davy Crockett shooting at Santa Anna's Army was the right thing to do, he just wouldn't get the Hispanic vote today".
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Another great example of how no one in our society can take responsibility or accept that it might be a CRIMINAL's fault for dumb actions rather than the goverment's actions!
I'm not happy that the 15-year old is dead but he got what he deserved...you should be shot in the face when someone robs you AT GUNPOINT.
Students at the school were outraged? Outraged someone protected himself? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
And you will hear the Lib's wiggle on this one.
Just like they did when the VaTech Psycho did his thing too! You can't blame, prevent and limit everything via legislation, some people are just bad people, period.
And if we keep legislating society for these bad people, the good people lose all their rights along the way..and that is for BOTH sides of the isle.
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"and you'll see the lib's wiggle on this one"...
Dude that is an idiotic statement and it makes me wonder if it was written by an idiot.
I'm a "liberal" . I had a concealed carry permit before Alaska went to anyone can carry.
I support the guy on his porch.
Why don't you go back to not thinking some more?
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As of right now, the most influential democrats in Washington are strongly against concealed carry and the right to keep and bear arms. Many of the lower ranking democrats got a lot of votes by taking a pro second amendment stance in their campaigns....including here in Ohio. It will be interesting to see if they cave in to the liberal elite.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Also I don't really see this as a political story. It was a guy sitting on his porch. I have no idea why you guys have to bring this whole "liberal" bs into this. Maybe this guy was a registered democrat. Maybe not.
See you CAN discuss gun issues without politics, or any topic. The big problem is most people refuse to do so and hide behind labels saying things like liberal, neo-conservative and others. You want a discussion about gun control or about any topic? How about letting people tell you what they believe and why without those convienent labels.
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I agree totally.
The kid made a decision to rob someone and got capped.
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This is where I got the wiggle comment from:
Toby Hoover, of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said she had not heard of any other fatal shooting involving a concealed-carry permit holder.
"This is one of the few where they actually used it to stop a crime," Hoover said.
But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here."
And notice what I said...the blame is being shifted from individuals to legislation... which includes BOTH sides of the isle from the Patriot Act to Gun Control.
Just last week, we saw an onslought of liberals on tv touting how more gun control is needed.
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"This is one of the few where they actually used it to stop a crime," Hoover said. But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here."
Someone should ask her how she thinks the 15 year old aquired HIS gun legally.  Just helps prove the obvious that shouldn't have to be proven: Criminals don't abide by laws. They'll have their guns long after any control is put on them.
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She's focusing on the wrong gun.
The gun that killed the kid isn't the problem. The problem is the gun the kid and his friend were using. Without it and an attempt to rob someone, that kid would still be alive.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here."
Right...and there could have been a dead adult here, Lady. Someone pulls a gun on me while I'm sitting on my front porch and I have one strapped on, they'll get shot too. Kid or adult.
The kid wouldn't be dead if he hadn't pulled the weapon. THINK about it. I swear people get more and more stupid with each passing day. 
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I can't speak for Ak,but I can speak for myself. You see,the term "liberal" is used freely to cast a shadow on anyone who doesn't see "eye to eye" with the GOP on any number of topics. It's a "catch all" phrase. See,I get labeled a liberal all the time. Now,when it comes to gun rights? Nobody calls me a liberal. When it comes to fiscal responsibility? Nobody calls me a liberal. So they use the term "liberal" as a slur to condemn anybody who sees ANY topic in a different light. I'm a "constitutionalist".  No matter which side of the aisle threatens my freedoms or rights,I'm against it. That includes the Patriot Act and Gun Control. I think it's simply a matter of terminology that our societry has learned to accept and use about ANYONE who isn't a supporter of EVERY conservative issue that comes up the pike. And that's far from accurate. I think "anti-gun lobby" would be far more accurate than "liberal". Because the two terms aren't necassarily one in the same. JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
She's focusing on the wrong gun.
The gun that killed the kid isn't the problem. The problem is the gun the kid and his friend were using. Without it and an attempt to rob someone, that kid would still be alive.
I totally agree!
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I feel the home owner was justified in protecting himself, his home..etc. And this does not have to do with gun control( or lack there of) even though people will make it out to be. His concealed weapon was not an issue since he was on his porch, on his property.( since I have not read that he was not at his own home). Now some ADULT should tell those grieving kids that if you do not want to do the time( this time = death) do not do the crime! This should come from the mayor, councilman, pastor, parents..etc. They can gather all they want for their friend but someone should tell them that this is the result of doing crime! Period!
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Thanks Pit!! Those words are OK to put on my mouth as I totally agree. We (me too) get to used to catchphrases. I am registered as a Dem, but really am a constitutionalist. On some issues I'm left on some right. It depends on each issue, and how I think about it.
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Problem is I would not be surprised to see some sort of retaliation in the next week from his friends/family against this man. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I think "anti-gun lobby" would be far more accurate than "liberal". Because the two terms aren't necassarily one in the same.
I think for the most part they are the same. Using the word Democrat instead I feel would be wrong. There are a lot of Dems that are not anti gun or at least are for reasonable gun control.
Whether you like it or not the word liberal does apply to many for their beliefs across the board. The same can be said for those considered neo cons.
People like you and me do tend to get lumped into groups because of some of our beliefs. You may be very liberal on some issues but you tend to be more conservative on others.
People who know me want to label me as a neo con even though I'm more liberal than many moderates on certain issues.
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I just felt "anti-gun lobby" was slightly more "issue specific" and not such a "generalized" term.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Problem is I would not be surprised to see some sort of retaliation in the next week from his friends/family against this man.
I hope they have the same result as the kid 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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#gmstrong
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This crap would never happen in Salem. 
Never say never.
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Quote:
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Problem is I would not be surprised to see some sort of retaliation in the next week from his friends/family against this man.
I hope they have the same result as the kid
This is what I was thinking and I bet Mr. Wells does not sleep well at night thinking someone would be looking for revenge. That would be horrible.
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You gotta love small towns 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Quote:
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Problem is I would not be surprised to see some sort of retaliation in the next week from his friends/family against this man.
I hope they have the same result as the kid
This is what I was thinking and I bet Mr. Wells does not sleep well at night thinking someone would be looking for revenge. That would be horrible.
Especially since the cops took his gun!
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So they use the term "liberal" as a slur to condemn anybody who sees ANY topic in a different light. I'm a "constitutionalist". No matter which side of the aisle threatens my freedoms or rights,I'm against it.
I think it's simply a matter of terminology that our societry has learned to accept and use about ANYONE who isn't a supporter of EVERY conservative issue that comes up the pike. And that's far from accurate.
I agree, to an extent. The way I read your post, you just did the same thing with "conservative". Maybe I'm wrong?
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You see,the term "liberal" is used freely to cast a shadow on anyone who doesn't see "eye to eye" with the GOP on any number of topics. It's a "catch all" phrase.
Yes it is Pit.. and in most respects, it's pretty effective... because you know, as well as I do, which liberals he's talking about... you know it's not the southern democrat or the moderate that he's talking about... you know that it's the "voices" of the democratic party... the Nancy Pelosis, the Hillary Clintons, the Harry Reids, the NAACP, the supporters in Hollywood, California, and Massachusetts... those are the liberals that he's talking about and YOU KNOW IT. But I suppose if it gave you a chance to do your schtick about those awful GOPers and their catch-all phrases, I guess it was worth it...
Of course that's just my own humble opinion coming straight from my... let's see, what is it you've called me about 8000 times.... oh yea, my little neo-con heart.
yebat' Putin
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Man with concealed-carry permit
kills robbery suspect in Cleveland
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