DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Supreme Court Rules Against Obamacare on Birth Control

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A bad decision shouldn't be led to a 9 month pregnancy and at least 18 years of drama after that. You comparing getting pregnant to drinking alcohol is at best a silly reach.

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Hobby Lobby's insurance pays for 16 forms of birth control, including birth control pills. What they object to is the abortifacients.

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Hobby Lobby's insurance pays for 16 forms of birth control, including birth control pills. What they object to is the abortifacients.

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Thanks for the clarification. (I liked the info that was in the article, but could have done without all the 'left-bashing.' Those types of 'slants' generally turn me off, no matter which 'side' is being represented.) National Review, Daily Kos... it takes WORK to glean the info from the editorializing.

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I would hope that they (HL) would reconsider their position in the narrowly-defined circumstance of incest or rape... at least on an individual basis. Who knows? Perhaps there is already some other viable medical service that is covered in their plan.

again, thanks.

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" the Hobby Lobby 401(k) employee retirement plan held more than $73 million in mutual funds with investments in companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and drugs commonly used in abortions."

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Its kinda hard to argue you are against something but you financially invest in it.
Thats like saying Rob Ford leading the war on drugs.

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But they support abortifacients.

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" the Hobby Lobby 401(k) employee retirement plan held more than $73 million in mutual funds with investments in companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and drugs commonly used in abortions."

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Its kinda hard to argue you are against something but you financially invest in it.
Thats like saying Rob Ford leading the war on drugs.

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But they support abortifacients.

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" the Hobby Lobby 401(k) employee retirement plan held more than $73 million in mutual funds with investments in companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and drugs commonly used in abortions."

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Its kinda hard to argue you are against something but you financially invest in it.
Thats like saying Rob Ford leading the war on drugs.

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To avoid supporting companies that manufacture abortion drugs—or products such as alcohol or pornography—religious investors can turn to a cottage industry of mutual funds that screen out stocks that religious people might consider morally objectionable. The Timothy Plan and the Ave Maria Fund, for example, screen for companies that manufacture abortion drugs, support Planned Parenthood, or engage in embryonic stem cell research.

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According to the forbes 3/4 of their entire 401k portfolio was invested, which was 73 million. It doesn't make logical sense that a company will invest 73 million out of 100 million into 401ks that they have not vetted, researched, and thought highly of.

It's just not logical. I am not buying that.

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I believe the answer to your question is basic and logical. While it may not be a good one, I believe it about covers it.

In many, many cases, it's the taxpayers who wind up paying for these bad decisions. Via food stamp programs, Medicaid and a lifetime of government funded programs. If you get a DUI? Not so much.



Many of the jobs that won't be covered will be jobs that people will work, but still qualify for government subsidies. And I guess that's really my main issue with this lies.

Many people who wish to promote not mandating birth control, are some of those who want to cut government spending and cut back on social programs. The fact is, young people make mistakes and it's often times the tax payer who foots the bill in the case of unwanted pregnancies.

So we can pay a little now, or a lot for 18 years. The fact is, such pregnancies are going to occur without birth control. And the fact is, either the taxpayers will foot the bill for those mistakes, or children will starve and not get health care by the scores.

I just don't see there being a more logical conclusion. To me it's a choice between birth control or skyrocketing social program costs. While people can stand on their moral and religious beliefs, in order to do that, the bill will come due.

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j/c (and Edit: I see that Tulsa beat me to this info)

Birth control is available under the Hobby Lobby plan, too... they don't have to do anything special to get it.

Much of this case is the same old "it's been shouted on the internet, so I'm going to disagree with it, too".

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I'm sure that if anyone cares to look, the info is out there in other places, too... good luck finding it on any of the biased "news" sites, however.


What contraception IS covered for Hobby Lobby employees?

Male condoms
Female condoms
Diaphragms with spermicide
Sponges with spermicide
Cervical caps with spermicide
Spermicide alone
Birth-control pills with estrogen and progestin (“Combined Pill)
Birth-control pills with progestin alone (“The Mini Pill)
Birth control pills (extended/continuous use)
Contraceptive patches
Contraceptive rings
Progestin injections
Implantable rods
Vasectomies
Female sterilization surgeries
Female sterilization implants



What this ruling means is NOT covered:
Plan B (“The Morning After Pill”)
Ella (a similar type of “emergency contraception”)
Copper Intra-Uterine Device
IUD with progestin





So much rhetoric. So few facts.

"God Bless the Internet"
-Socrates

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j/c (and Edit: I see that Tulsa beat me to this info)

Birth control is available under the Hobby Lobby plan, too... they don't have to do anything special to get it.

Much of this case is the same old "it's been shouted on the internet, so I'm going to disagree with it, too".

link 1

link 2

I'm sure that if anyone cares to look, the info is out there in other places, too... good luck finding it on any of the biased "news" sites, however.


What contraception IS covered for Hobby Lobby employees?

Male condoms
Female condoms
Diaphragms with spermicide
Sponges with spermicide
Cervical caps with spermicide
Spermicide alone
Birth-control pills with estrogen and progestin (“Combined Pill)
Birth-control pills with progestin alone (“The Mini Pill)
Birth control pills (extended/continuous use)
Contraceptive patches
Contraceptive rings
Progestin injections
Implantable rods
Vasectomies
Female sterilization surgeries
Female sterilization implants



What this ruling means is NOT covered:
Plan B (“The Morning After Pill”)
Ella (a similar type of “emergency contraception”)
Copper Intra-Uterine Device
IUD with progestin





So much rhetoric. So few facts.

"God Bless the Internet"
-Socrates

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Again, highlighting this for those that only get their news from places that want controversy.

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j/c

mifepristone is the only known abortifacient that can be administered under FDA guidlines. IUDs work by making the uterus inhospitable for conception and therefore are contraceptives.

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But if the concern is over implantation, why is the pill okay? After all, there can be breakthrough ovulation that occurs while on the pill, but due to the thin uteral lining, doesn't implant and therefore the zygote dies. Statistically speaking, if you have 100 women on the pill and are sexually active in a calendar year, 2 zygotes will be flushed out because of this situation. The pill largely acts as a way to prevent egg release but it does have an `abortifacient` backup in place when this breakthrough occurs too.

I'm probably overthinking this because I don't think those in charge of the Hobby Lobby medical plan thought too hard about this either...

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The pill largely acts as a way to prevent egg release but it does have an `abortifacient` backup in place when this breakthrough occurs too.

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At Hobby Lobby, we value our customers and employees and are committed to:
Honoring the Lord in all we do by operating the company in a manner consistent with biblical principles.
Offering our customers exceptional selection and value in the crafts and home decor market.
Serving our employees and their families by establishing a work environment and company policies that build character, strengthen individuals and nurture families.
Providing a return on the owner's investment, sharing the Lord's blessings with our employees, and investing in our community.
store front imageWe believe that it is by God's grace and provision that Hobby Lobby has endured. He has been faithful in the past, and we trust Him for our future.

Hobby Lobby is THE place to shop with everyday Super Selections and Super Savings! Store hours are Monday through Saturday from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. and all Hobby Lobby stores are closed on Sunday.

Our other affiliated companies headquartered in Oklahoma City include Mardel and Hemispheres.

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WILL WORK WITH CONGRESS TO MAKE SURE WOMEN AFFECTED BY RULING WILL HAVE SAME ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTION

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Birth control IS available - from H.L. OR from the pharmacy, and it doesn't cost much at all.

Personal responsibility is what's lacking. And there isn't a pill in the world that will take care of that.

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Just wondering out loud here ... Should private companies be forced to pay for psychological treatments for turning a gay person straight if a person wanted that covered? I mean if we're going to force the government's moral beliefs on everyone, I wonder how people would feel if the shoe was on the other foot?

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Why do businesses have to cover anything?? People get a paycheck, why do businesses have to babysit them and buy their medical coverage for them too? Are we not grown-up enough that we can't take care of ourselves? Can't people act like big boys and girls and get their own medical coverage? Then you can get coverage for whatever weird personal beliefs you have.

I can see why the left is so bothered by this though, it offends their two core principles:
1) You shouldn't be held personally responsible for anything.
2) Somebody else should pay for it.

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Why do businesses have to cover anything?? People get a paycheck, why do businesses have to babysit them and buy their medical coverage for them too? Are we not grown-up enough that we can't take care of ourselves? Can't people act like big boys and girls and get their own medical coverage? Then you can get coverage for whatever weird personal beliefs you have.

I can see why the left is so bothered by this though, it offends their two core principles:
1) You shouldn't be held personally responsible for anything.
2) Somebody else should pay for it.

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The pill largely acts as a way to prevent egg release but it does have an `abortifacient` backup in place when this breakthrough occurs too.

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This is what I don't get either. All birth control pills could be argued to be abortofacients because of this very thing. The pill not only prevents egg maturation, but also stimulates the endometrial wall's sloughing off of the uterus. Any egg that implants would be flushed out with everything else. I worry that this ruling will end up being extended to all birth control because of this.

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Can't have that ... people might start dying in the streets.

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The pill largely acts as a way to prevent egg release but it does have an `abortifacient` backup in place when this breakthrough occurs too.

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This is what I don't get either. All birth control pills could be argued to be abortofacients because of this very thing. The pill not only prevents egg maturation, but also stimulates the endometrial wall's sloughing off of the uterus. Any egg that implants would be flushed out with everything else. I worry that this ruling will end up being extended to all birth control because of this.

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I believe the argument is "intent" The intent of the birth control pill is never to have the egg fertilized. It is a possibility and brings up grave concerns. Everyone has a line in the sand somewhere.

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I believe the argument is "intent" The intent of the birth control pill is never to have the egg fertilized. It is a possibility and brings up grave concerns. Everyone has a line in the sand somewhere.

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Hobby Lobby Is Already Creating New Religious Demands on Obama
Faith leaders friendly to the administration are asking for an exemption from a forthcoming gay-rights order.
MOLLY BALLJUL 2 2014, 1:05 PM ET
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Reuters
This week, in the Hobby Lobby case, the Supreme Court ruled that a religious employer could not be required to provide employees with certain types of contraception. That decision is beginning to reverberate: A group of faith leaders is urging the Obama administration to include a religious exemption in a forthcoming LGBT anti-discrimination action.

Their call, in a letter sent to the White House Tuesday, attempts to capitalize on the Supreme Court case by arguing that it shows the administration must show more deference to the prerogatives of religion.

"We are asking that an extension of protection for one group not come at the expense of faith communities whose religious identity and beliefs motivate them to serve those in need," the letter states.

The Hobby Lobby decision has been welcomed by religious-right groups who accuse Obama of waging a war on religion. But Tuesday's letter is different: It comes from a group of faith leaders who are generally friendly to the administration, many of whom have closely advised the White House on issues like immigration reform. The letter was organized by Michael Wear, who worked in the Obama White House and directed faith outreach for the president's 2012 campaign. Signers include two members of Catholics for Obama and three former members of the President’s Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships.

"This is not an antagonistic letter by any means," Wear told me. But in the wake of Hobby Lobby, he said, "the administration does have a decision to make whether they want to recalibrate their approach to some of these issues."

Last week, the administration announced it would issue an executive order banning federal contractors from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, a reform long sought by gay-rights groups. Such an order would essentially impose on contractors the provisions of the proposed Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which passed the Senate but hasn't been taken up by the House.

But the text of the order has not yet been released, so it is not known whether it will include a religious exemption. (A White House spokesman declined to discuss the order.) ENDA, the proposed federal legislation, does include such an exemption: It specifically does not apply to a broad array of faith-based organizations, from churches to religious-service groups to religious newspapers, meaning those groups could still decline to hire gay or transgender people if they believe it conflicts with their faith. The exemption was included despite fears from some LGBT activists that it could constitute a license to discriminate.

Balancing religious freedom with other concerns, be they gay rights or health-care mandates, is difficult, said Stephen Schneck, director of the Institute for Policy Research and Catholic Studies at Catholic University and a signatory to the letter. The faith community simply wants to make sure its side is heard and respected as the administration tries to thread this delicate needle.

"It would be nice if we had just a little bit more leverage," said Schneck, a onetime cochair of Catholics for Obama. "I am a very strong supporter of LGBT rights, and I am really excited about the prospect of extending provisions against discrimination in federal contracts. But I am also aware that this is an issue that provokes real differences among some of the most important religious organization on the front lines of providing care for the poorest and most vulnerable." Those groups, he said, need to be allowed to work with the government while following the dictates of their faith.

To these religious leaders, Hobby Lobby ought to prompt the White House to reexamine the way it weights religious rights against other priorities. Liberals opposed to the decision, on the other hand, argue it creates a slippery slope to more and more carve-outs from important legislation for claims based on faith. This executive order could be the next battleground for those competing points of view.

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