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I've been wondering since Bosh opted out why we wouldn't make a run at him. He's darn near exactly what we'd need to immediately become a Spurs-like contender. Why not offer HIM the max contract?
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He would never come here. If he wanted to leave he could sign the max in Houston or go to LA.
I think Lebron knows where he will play next year. The Heat can't sign anyone until they all resign. maybe he is waiting for the 8th, the 4 year anniversary of the decision.?
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He wouldn't come here.
And even if he would...he's about to enter the stretch 4 phase of his career.
The future doesn't look so hot for Bennett at the moment, but we've got him on the cheap, and if he develops that's more or less the role Bosh would take on.
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The Heat can't sign anyone until they all resign.
Actually they needed the Lowrys of the world to sign BEFORE they resigned the Big 3, so they knew how much to split up between them...
But that was they assumed everyone would jump at the chance to pay for a pittance...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Seems to me their best option is to rebuild with the best FA's possible around LaBron and Bosh. Wade probably didn't opt out because there's a good chance they would have just passed on renegotiating with him outright if he did. I don't know as much about this as many of you guys but it seems like the Heat needed depth and youth at the end of last season. Big 2 and bunch of quality role players sounds like a better plan than being tied to an aging and ailing Wade, his cumbersome contract and a thin bench. I've been wondering if Labron and Bosh opting out was a hopeful inducement for Wade to do the same but he just didn't bite. They have a conundrum in Miami. That said, there's not one stitch of fiber in my being that believes for 1 second that Labron is coming back to Cleveland. There's still 3 or 4 teams I put ahead of Cleveland and their rookie coach and super young team with no big.
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Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If they signed they would know how much money to offer. I don't even think Riley knows how much these guys are willing to accept. On top of it, no free agent that is any good, is going to give the heat a long-term commitment without all 3 signing for multiple years.
This may be all a ruse, but we will find out in a few days..
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Supposedly Riley has been in touch with Luol Deng. Good luck with that, since Deng left the Bulls because he wanted closer to a max deal. I still think that he will get more than $5 million or so that the Heat could pay.
Bosh is looking more and more like the lynch pin in all of this. If he leaves for a max deal, (which, at 30, has to be important to him) then what brings Lebron back? Even if the Heat sign Deng, is the lure of a pair of former stars in decline going to be enough to bring Lebron back if Bosh leaves? I doubt it.
The longer this goes on, the less likely I believe it to be that Lebron stays in Miami. Too many things have to come together perfectly for him to go back ....... the team has to find quality pieces to fill out almost an entire roster .... and that will be hard to do even if Bosh and Wade take significant reductions. Now the Heat could screw Wade and just cut him loose, but that would be an awful method of doing business, and would absolutely and irrevocably destroy the "team" aspect of things that Riley has been pushing. It would probably be best for the Heat, but how would anyone ever trust him ever again?
Riley is in a bad spot right now, and I just wonder where the big names wind up. I suspect that Melo goes back to NY. His wife loves the lifestyle, and they do have Phil Jackson. I suspect that Bosh will head West to the Rockets. They have a need, and have room to add him. Being as he can stretch the floor to a fair extent, he should fit well with Howard.
That leaves Lebron. I have a hard time seeing him head to the West if he wants to win Championships. The West is such a grind that very good teams do not even make the 2nd round. The East is a much easier route to the Finals. I like Cleveland, because they have Irving and Wiggins, (who is a rookie, I realize that ... but he fits with Lebron) and a lot of salary cap space, lots of flexibility, an owner willing to spend as much as it takes, and overall team depth. They can add Lebron this year, and easily add another max deal next year.
I like our chances more and more as time goes by. People bring up LA ..... but Kobe isn't getting any younger ..... and as he'll be 36 in August, how many more years does he have left? Maybe they add Melo ..... and that would give them 2 ...... but if they then add Lebron, they are done adding pieces for at least a couple of years. In 2 years, what free agents hit the market who are game changer types? I just have a hard time seeing Lebron in LA. It just doesn't seem like him. He went to Miami ..... but even Miami isn't an LA or NYC. He has kids who are entering special school ages. Lebron Jr is going to be 10 in October. That means that he will enter high school in 4 years. Will Lebron want to uproot the family in 4 years? Will he bet that he will still be attractive enough to the Cavaliers in 4 more years to be signed and come back "home" for his kids? I don't know. It seems to me that if the Cavaliers don't get Lebron this time around, they won't even try next time. he'll be 33 ...... and who knows what he'll have left at that time. There are no guarantees, not even for Lebron James. I don't think that the Cavaliers will look forward to getting rejected a 3rd time, and may well refuse to even play if he rejects them this time around. Further, why bring him back just to end his career. I think that Lebron knows that if he wants to come back to Cleveland, this is probably the time to do so. (unless he takes a contract with a 1 year opt out, and why would any star players follow him for that?) If the Cavaliers improve, they won't be adding more top end pieces. They probably have as solid a base as they will. If he doesn't come now, he's not coming at all. That's MHO anyway.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We still need bigs. Besides Andy and Zeller, do we have anyone taller than 6'9? 6'10?
If Lebron comes back, great, super, pencil us in for the ECF at minimum.
Also check in on how much itd cost to get KLove, anything but Wiggins and Kyrie IMO, you take him too.. and almost have stamped your ticket to the Finals (The East is terrible if anyone didn't know) if not, then we can clear room for Love next year..
If LeBron doesn't come back, I still like our chances of improving this year (I mean, it can't be that hard, just try)
I wouldn't enjoy throwing max deals this year at random guys just cause we have holes, that's dangerous..
If LeBron doesn't come back here, or stay in Miami another year (can't see him staying longer than that wth the way that team is) then I honestly have no idea where he's going..
I doubt he wants to end up like Luke Perry in The Sandlot 3...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think Bosh is waiting on James. If he signs with the heat even for 2 years, I think Bosh will sign a max, with a eary option after the 2nd or 3rd year. Wade isn't going anywhere. He will most likely retire in Miami..
I think it's Miami for 2 years or sign for a 4 yr deal in Cleveland for Lebron. Even though we might not win a title even with James next yr, long-term the Cavs are his best bet to win 3-5 titles. He could come back home, play til he's 40 with the core of Irving/Wiggins, and possibly Love. Not sure what is taking this guy so long. Cleveland is the place to go..
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Cleveland is the place to go..
Other than the fact that its still Cleveland...
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Cleveland is the place to go..
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
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Cleveland is the place to go..
Other than the fact that its still Cleveland...
However, overall talent, and young talent on the roster, combined with available cap space (they don't have to gut the team to sign Lebron) an owner willing, and even eager to spend money ...... and trade assets that can be used to add another max player to go along with Lebron, Irving, and Wiggins ...... and another high dollar player next year as well. (if needed/available) I think that Cleveland has a lot to offer.
I think that the biggest question about the Cavaliers is that they have an unproven coach with no NBA experience ..... but we also have Lue as a "backup head coach" just in case Blatt proves incapable of making the transition to the NBA. There is also talk that the Cavaliers may retain Jim Boylin, who would give them yet more experience.
I feel that Cleveland has an excellent shot at Lebron. I don't think it's a slam dunk ...... but from what I have read, Blatt really impressed Irving, and that's why he was willing to do the max without any outs ...... and obviously Griffin has tried whatever he can to try and improve the team, making trades for Deng and Hawes last year ..... which were good risks to take,
The next couple of weeks are going to be really interesting.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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However, overall talent, and young talent on the roster, combined with available cap space (they don't have to gut the team to sign Lebron) an owner willing, and even eager to spend money ...... and trade assets that can be used to add another max player to go along with Lebron, Irving, and Wiggins ...... and another high dollar player next year as well. (if needed/available) I think that Cleveland has a lot to offer.
I think you have your Cleveland blinders on again. Irving has shown he can be an All-star IF he can stay on the court. Wiggins is a complete unknown right now, and is likely going to go through some growing pains. The rest of the team is a bunch of question-mark young guys that couldn't even make the playoffs in a pitiful Eastern Conference. Our coaching staff is a mystery as well.
IF we got Love though, that changes things ... Love is a legitimate top 5-10 player. Irving becomes the "3rd best" All-star of your three-headed monster, and Wiggins isn't going to be relied on as heavily ... so can be the fourth man. Like I said earlier, he could take up the role of "Kobe Bryant" when he was playing on Shaq's Lakers. That's an intriguing combo. Kyrie as your centerpiece with an unknown rookie really isn't.
And people keep saying we can just sign Love to the max next year? Can we?? We'd have Kyrie's new max extension kicking in, Lebron's 22+ million on the books, Wiggin's 5 or 6 million dollar contract and Jarett Jack's 6mil contract. That's pretty much all your cap-space already. Not to mention the benefit of getting everybody on the roster THIS year would be that we wouldn't have to gut our roster down to nothing just to get the "big" guys under the cap. Technically we could sign Lebron to the max if we don't pick up a couple of options and maybe move a guy or two, then sign and trade for Love. We then could keep everyone else on the roster, and down the road, pick up their team options and/or resign them. Next year, we'd have the same problem the Heat have, where they have to gut the complete roster and hope they can fill up the bench with vet-min guys.
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We still need bigs. Besides Andy and Zeller, do we have anyone taller than 6'9? 6'10?
Our frontcourt is pretty bad.
Thompson has no offensive game, and can't defend against better 4's. He's a plus-level offensive rebounder, but that doesn't do much good when you can't pass and it takes you so long to gather that the ball ends up swatted five rows up.
Zeller has improved quite a bit, but he's not a rim protector and his ceiling is a bench guy in limited minutes. If you're team is competing, he should be the fifth or six big off the bench.
Andy is Andy. He'll give you twenty of thirty good games a year.
Like I said earlier, I really wish we had gone with Drummond over Waiters (or that Embiid didn't have the injury troubles he's having).
If you get LeBron in there, and Wiggins develops a consistent offense game, then you have the leeway to do some of the small ball things the Heat have done in recent years, and suddenly a hulking frontcourt isn't such an issue.
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Wade opted out...
Oh. Then never mind.  
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Quote:
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However, overall talent, and young talent on the roster, combined with available cap space (they don't have to gut the team to sign Lebron) an owner willing, and even eager to spend money ...... and trade assets that can be used to add another max player to go along with Lebron, Irving, and Wiggins ...... and another high dollar player next year as well. (if needed/available) I think that Cleveland has a lot to offer.
I think you have your Cleveland blinders on again. Irving has shown he can be an All-star IF he can stay on the court. Wiggins is a complete unknown right now, and is likely going to go through some growing pains. The rest of the team is a bunch of question-mark young guys that couldn't even make the playoffs in a pitiful Eastern Conference. Our coaching staff is a mystery as well.
IF we got Love though, that changes things ... Love is a legitimate top 5-10 player. Irving becomes the "3rd best" All-star of your three-headed monster, and Wiggins isn't going to be relied on as heavily ... so can be the fourth man. Like I said earlier, he could take up the role of "Kobe Bryant" when he was playing on Shaq's Lakers. That's an intriguing combo. Kyrie as your centerpiece with an unknown rookie really isn't.
And people keep saying we can just sign Love to the max next year? Can we?? We'd have Kyrie's new max extension kicking in, Lebron's 22+ million on the books, Wiggin's 5 or 6 million dollar contract and Jarett Jack's 6mil contract. That's pretty much all your cap-space already. Not to mention the benefit of getting everybody on the roster THIS year would be that we wouldn't have to gut our roster down to nothing just to get the "big" guys under the cap. Technically we could sign Lebron to the max if we don't pick up a couple of options and maybe move a guy or two, then sign and trade for Love. We then could keep everyone else on the roster, and down the road, pick up their team options and/or resign them. Next year, we'd have the same problem the Heat have, where they have to gut the complete roster and hope they can fill up the bench with vet-min guys.
I am not 100% sure how the NBA cap works ...... but I am pretty sure that we could take that non guaranteed contract we traded for, and package that with 2 guys like Waiters and Thompson in a sign and trade deal. I think that we'd be OK that way. We'd be over the cap ..... but within the rules as far as I know.
One other option would be to allow Lebron an out after year 1, which he could exercise. We could not pick up the options on Waiters and Thompson, then sign Love ...... then re-sign Lebron. In this scenario, we would still have the $10 million non guaranteed contract that we could use in a trade for another piece. We would also hang on to our 1-3 (depending on qualifiers) 2015 first round picks, and could also either use them in the draft, or in a trade. We could pick up the contracts of Waiters and Thompson and use them as trade assets. There are tons of options. The Cavaliers are well set up for the next couple of years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If we were to sign LeBron this year, and trade for Love, we would have Love's Bird Rights and be able to go over the cap to resign him..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yeah, but we would still have to fit 2 max deals under the cap this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, but we would still have to fit 2 max deals under the cap this year.
Which we have to get rid of Deng and Hawes to do. WE will have the cap space to sign Lebron if he chooses to sign here.
King
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Yeah, but we would still have to fit 2 max deals under the cap this year.
You just have to Fit LeBron under the cap, Loves contract will be matched with whatever players we give them.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yeah, but we would still have to fit 2 max deals under the cap this year.
You just have to Fit LeBron under the cap, Loves contract will be matched with whatever players we give them.
Who all do we give up to get Love though?
I would guess that we would have to give up Waiters, Thompson, and Varejao. to make it fit. Who plays Center then? (Not that it would be a huge problem with the rest of the lineup, I suppose) However, would Minnesota want to take on all of those contracts? I suppose that all 3 could be considered expiring contracts could be a plus for them, with Waiters and Thompson each being a team option for next year. They could cut Varejao and save about $5 million, since $4 million o his deal is guaranteed.
If they did all of that, they would still have that non guaranteed contract that they could trade for value next year as well.
Like I said ..... the Cavaliers have a lot of options right now. They have talent, and decent depth, and they can make moves with expiring deals, and deals with team options that can make room for almost anyone they want, who also wants to come here. Plus Gilbert has said that he doesn't mind being in the luxury tax ...... and would do so in order to win championships.
Oh, and we also have a potential 3 first round picks next year as well. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hawes is already gone.
I am aware of that. I was just pointing out the two things that would need to happen to fit another max deal. So Deng is the other that needs to go
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Deng is a free agent, he's already off the books as well. I believe if we wanted to, we could also deny the team option on a few other players as well and pick up some more cap room (if we haven't already).
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Deng is a free agent, he's already off the books as well. I believe if we wanted to, we could also deny the team option on a few other players as well and pick up some more cap room (if we haven't already).
Do we have a cap hold for Deng though? Or can we renounce it?
Cap holds are a new thing to me, the last 5 years of NBA2k have given me a certain understanding of NBA FA that I'm finding out is completely wrong..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Technically, I suppose we have his Bird Rights, but we're not signing him to a max deal anyway so he's essentially off the books. We aren't on the hook for any of his salary unless he signs a new deal for us, which is extremely doubtful at best.
Edit: I think you might be thinking of Restricted Free Agents. In that case, you would make a "qualifying offer" to your RFA which would count against your cap in the form of a hold, until they either sign a deal with you, or you refuse to match another team's offer. UFAs are off your books the second the season ends.
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I would guess that we would have to give up Waiters, Thompson, and Varejao.
For Kevin Love? You are not serious, are you? You realize Kevin Love is at least a top ten player in the league and is probably better than that.
If I am the T'Wolves there is no deal if Wiggins is not involved. And the only reason the Cavs would trade for Love is if they get LeBron. If you can get LeBron/Love/Irving together you give up everything. Flip Saunders should start with, "We want Wiggins, Waiters, Bennett, Thompson, and picks."
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As I now understand it, unless I'm still wrong, cause I looked at a FAQ about it..
When someone becomes a FA, there's a certain percentage of their salary (say 125%) that is still on the salary cap as a "hold" until they sign somewhere I assume..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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The Lakers still have cap holds with John Salley, Karl Malone, and several other long retired players.
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As I now understand it, unless I'm still wrong, cause I looked at a FAQ about it..
When someone becomes a FA, there's a certain percentage of their salary (say 125%) that is still on the salary cap as a "hold" until they sign somewhere I assume..
That would be if you want to retain their Bird rights. You can renounce that. Otherwise, nobody would ever be able to sign anybody because all the contracts that expired would still count against the cap and nobody would have any cap space.
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Gotcha...
I've slowly been explaining this to my brother, because if this was 2k, you'd just sign a bunch of FAs, THEN use Bird Rights to resign the Big 3, etc..
Stupid video games..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I would guess that we would have to give up Waiters, Thompson, and Varejao.
For Kevin Love? You are not serious, are you? You realize Kevin Love is at least a top ten player in the league and is probably better than that.
If I am the T'Wolves there is no deal if Wiggins is not involved. And the only reason the Cavs would trade for Love is if they get LeBron. If you can get LeBron/Love/Irving together you give up everything. Flip Saunders should start with, "We want Wiggins, Waiters, Bennett, Thompson, and picks."
Sorry, I meant strictly to balance salaries, in that example.
However ...... if it looks like we might get Lebron ..... then Love may tell the Wolves that it's Cleveland or he plays out the string and signs here as a free agent. That would significantly lower their negotiating power. I culd see Love doing that, because he would want his new team to be as strong as possible.
I would not trade Wiggins at this point. I would give up all 3 first rounders we could potentially have next year first.
For a rebuilding team like Minnesota, several young veteran players and a number of draft picks would be their best option. I don't think that the Cavaliers will give up Wiggins though.
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 07/07/14 12:21 AM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If James is coming, I would try to wait SAunders out til the deadline. No sense trading Wiggins, when you could get Love for a lot less come February. It's definitely a gamble, but time is not on Saunders side. Brooke Lopez might be another option.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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The nice thing is ..... if we do manage to trade for Love this year, we would still have that non-guaranteed contract that we could trade next year for a $10 million/year player as well.
On paper, the Cavaliers are set up about as well as a team can be.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
For Kevin Love? You are not serious, are you? You realize Kevin Love is at least a top ten player in the league and is probably better than that.
If I am the T'Wolves there is no deal if Wiggins is not involved. And the only reason the Cavs would trade for Love is if they get LeBron. If you can get LeBron/Love/Irving together you give up everything. Flip Saunders should start with, "We want Wiggins, Waiters, Bennett, Thompson, and picks."
Problem is that Love has refused to agree to a sign-and-trade for just about everyone. Without a guarantee that Love will stay past next year, what will anybody realistically give up for him? The T-Wolves have their feet to the fire because this time next year, they might lose him completely with no compensation. While they wouldn't get Wiggins, they could at least get a few young pieces and draft picks which would help quite a bit in a rebuild. That's probably more than they can get from a team who knows Love won't sign an extension with them ... and a lot more than they'll get if he just walks.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
I'm pretty sure he's said he'd reup here if LeBrons here..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Quote:
I'm pretty sure he's said he'd reup here if LeBrons here..
I believe that he said that he would re-sign "immediately" if Lebron was also here.
More on the Twitter-verse explosion ....
Twitter abuzz with the possibility of LeBron James returning to Cleveland to play for the Cavaliers | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/07/twitter_abuzz_with_the_possibi.html#incart_2box
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Twitter and other social media outlets exploded Sunday night with the news of LeBron James making a possible return to Cleveland for the Cavaliers.
Speculation has been running wild throughout the weekend with the possibility of James returning to the team he left in 2010. ESPN's Chris Broussard then tweeted that the Cavs became his favorite to land the four-time MVP.
Cleveland has replaced Miami as my frontrunner to land LeBron James...
— Chris Broussard (@Chris_Broussard) July 7, 2014
Broussard then added that a deal isn't done and that he's only stating his opinion.
I'm not saying LJ to Cavs is done deal or I know 4 a fact; just my gut feeling based on many conversations I've had around this story...
— Chris Broussard (@Chris_Broussard) July 7, 2014
These convos aren't sourced enough 4 me to report as fact. But I've heard enough to believe "the wind is blowing" LJ back home. We'll see...
— Chris Broussard (@Chris_Broussard) July 7, 2014
Other media outlets, including Yahoo! Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski, have chimed in on the possibility and capability of the Cavs trying to land James. Cleveland would have to clear cap space to sign James to a max deal.
Cavaliers want to unload Jarrett Jack's $6M annual deal to clear space, without touching Anderson Varejao -- a LeBron James favorite.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) July 7, 2014
What does this mean for the Heat? ESPN's Brian Windhorst says James will be meeting with Pat Riley in the coming days.
LeBron James planning a face-to- face meeting with Pat Riley in next few days, sources tell ESPN. USA Today reported earlier.
— Brian Windhorst (@WindhorstESPN) July 7, 2014
As the holiday weekend wraps up, Cleveland and the rest of the NBA will be on the edge of their seats waiting to see where James ends up.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
Yea that 10 million is huge next year. that was a genius move by Griffin. Regardless is we get Lebron, the team is definitely on the rise for to be one of the better teams.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
I won't lose a nights rest either way, but I would be shocked if Lebron didn't come back..Riley hasn't netted one free agent. I'm sorry but it looks to be over for the Heat.. Cant see him returning when they havn't added anything to the roster. Also Wade is washed up, and no way is Lebron carrying that old dog around.
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