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1st String
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The lingering question is if Manziel is so great why didn't he go sooner than he did in the draft?
No, I did not watch the draft.
Groza76
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Rodgers dropped to 
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he is 5-11 if he was 6-3 probably goes #1.
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~ Legend
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Quote:
The lingering question is if Manziel is so great why didn't he go sooner than he did in the draft?
No, I did not watch the draft.
If Tom Brady is so great than why was he picked in the 6th round?
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Legend
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GMs are scared to take a QB high because they know if they are wrong they are fired.
Look at Houston. Everyone knew they needed a QB. They screwed around and took Clowney at 1 because they were afraid to be wrong at QB and ended up drafting Nicolas Cage's stunt double in the 5th round, then had him in a "competition" to be the starter which he lost to Ryan Fitzpatrick. Who drafts a QB in the 5th that they expect to compete for the starting job as a rookie?
Jacksonville is a just-as-obvious case. They were in dire need of a QB... Had to take one. They draft Bortles of all options at 3 overall because they would be able to stash him on the sidelines for a year, few questions asked, and parade Chad Henne out there yet again. Isn't it odd that the QBs picked at 22, 32, and 37 are all contenders for the starting job and the 3 is redshirting behind Henne?
The Browns were able to take the gamble on passing the first time around because they had that second pick with plenty of panic trade ammo and all three viable starting options were still available.
The Raiders are the only others coming out of this smelling like roses as Carr fell into their laps after they drafted a linebacker first. Reports on raiders.com and other sources say Carr is pushing named starter Schaub for the role.
Tampa pre empted the decision by signing Josh McCown, he of the 4 good games in his 8 year career.
Minnesota was inexplicably able to trade in front of Houston for just a fourth round pick after reportedly getting outbid trying to go back up for Manziel.
Tenneessee drafted an offensive tackle, the de facto "punt" for teams afraid to take a risk in the first round (see picks 1, 2, 4 of 2013) and now are stuck with Locker who has thrown more illegal forward passes than anyone I've ever seen.
Then you had a bunch of teams already tied to a QB.
Basically IMO you had a bunch of chicken GMs.
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Dawg Talker
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He's short, has a small frame and is potentially fragile, doesn't have the biggest arm (it's decent), has a media circus that follows him and blows every one of his tweets out of proportion, and has a gunslinger mentality.
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Quote:
The lingering question is if Manziel is so great why didn't he go sooner than he did in the draft?
No, I did not watch the draft.
because he has a drinking problem?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I imagine most people have an accurate view of Manziels pros and cons.
Where he was drafted was about right as far as predicting the draft goes according to most gurus.
Why did Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, and Christian Ponder all go so high? The draft is a gamble. Frankly I'd take Manziel over any of them but hindsight makes that very easy.
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Quote:
he is 5-11 if he was 6-3 probably goes #1.
No doubt in my mind.
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Legend
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Because he has a phone maybe?
The media hype may have bloated his value to some arguable degree. His drop is a reflection of more reasonable judgments. market finds its own value (thinking of Couch and Quinn here as parallel situations).
He dropped enough that his potential value surpassed the hype risk. No guarantees, either of failure or success, he became worth a crap shoot.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I think it's everything everyone has said but also, and perhaps most importantly IMO, I think most football analysts have doubts about his discipline, how his game in particular translates to the next level and how he see's the field. I saw and read a few pieces about how he doesn't see and exploit important opportunities on the field when he goes into sand-lot football mode. You need a good deal of discipline to thrive in the NFL. Yes, you absolutely need moxy and the ability to improvise (traits he has in spades) but a QB in the NFL has got to be a disciplined gamer first and foremost. The margins are just very small and a good QB has to not make many mistakes and exploit the other teams' mistakes routinely and that takes study, vision, patience.... discipline. I think a lot of scouts and GM's doubt that in him. I do to frankly.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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Legend
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He's undersized, his style of play isn't suited for the NFL, and he has character issues.
I think we reached on him, but I understand tbe gamble.
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Legend
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Quote:
He's undersized, his style of play isn't suited for the NFL, and he has character issues.
I think we reached on him, but I understand tbe gamble.
Well put.
I hope and pray he works out.
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Legend
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Well put. I share your thoughts. Hope he succeeds and has enough intangibles to win a bunch of games. But he will have to show me a blend of discipline with all the dramatic gunslinging. It will take a team to raise this QB, I suspect. He will need to step in and step up at some point. Interested in seeing him preseason. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Legend
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I got blasted for saying this last year in regards to Weeden, but I have zero interest in what a QB does in the preseason.
It indicates absolutely nothing.
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Quote:
I got blasted for saying this last year in regards to Weeden, but I have zero interest in what a QB does in the preseason.
It indicates absolutely nothing.
Weeden was the GOAT preseason QB. So was Quinn.
With that said, you will be able to tell. I could tell that despite Weedens good numbers his passes were inaccurate, late, was staring down guys.....all things that carried over to the regular season and once those corners started pressing it was game over.
You can learn a lot about how ready a guy is, but you have to look deeper than the results and the stats. Are the passes crisp, accurate, on time, command of the huddle, arm strength, is he going through his progressions.
Weeden was locking in, throwing off target throws, behind guys, in front of guys.......exactly like he did in the regular season, but like I said, in the regular season, those corners aren't just going through the motions....
Last edited by BpG; 07/01/14 12:54 PM.
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Legend
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There was only one QB who went before him, so I take it the teams didn't feel the QB class was worth such high picks or to trade for.
Honestly though, who cares. QB's picked high can come in and suck. QBs picked low can come in and ball. I can provide several examples to both equations if need be, a lot have already been mentioned.
If he wins when the day comes he lines up behind center - I doubt "why so low" is going to be any of the first/initial thoughts to pop up lol!
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I'm not arguing against any of the explanations given by other posters for Manziel not going higher. A lot of plausible reasons have been offered.
Instead I will go with the radical concept of re-stating what the Head Coach has said about how he and Ray Farmer approached this draft. Paraphrasing, they didn't grade any QB to be draftable at #4. Having arrived at that decision instead they first selected the player which was a vital building block for the team overall. So that when they did add a QB he would be a piece of a stronger roster.
Found it!
Actual words from the HC. Taken from the MMQB article, The Accidental Coach of the Cleveland Browns:
“That was our point all along, let’s build the best team first, let’s not take the quarterback,” Pettine says. “There was so much pressure internally to take a quarterback with the fourth pick [but] we weren’t going to do it because the grade didn’t justify it; we weren’t going to draft for need."
Last edited by guard dawg; 07/01/14 06:37 PM.
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Legend
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Not only that, but there was only one team that spent their first pick on a QB.
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Legend
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Legend
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Hey I was hoping we could draft a Brian Sipe clone in the 13th round again 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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imho, there was no astonishing talent in this draft at the qb slot. I might eat my words...but I see bust written all over Manziel. The off field issues are just mounting up. It's more than just massive focus by the media. He's a loose cannon. This pick wasn't quite the head slapper that Weeden was in the first round but I'm still wondering if the front office knows something we don't know about Johnny.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Legend
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j/c
Had we only had the #4, and taken JF with it, I think the idea would be completely different, so much more pressure.
But we got the IMO best CB in the draft at 8, and then used our "extra" picks to take a "flier" on Johnny...
I think this way, even if he flames out like so many thing he will (and some seem to hope) that Farmer and Pettine won't really be "under fire" as much had we taken him at 4...
I really feel (and hope) these guys are here for the long haul, and sadly, long haul to me right now just means their entire contracts... Just for the sake of keeping something together...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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1st String
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Quote:
If he wins when the day comes he lines up behind center - I doubt "why so low" is going to be any of the first/initial thoughts to pop up lol!
The operative word is IF.
Thanks fellas for all the info.
We picjed him and he deserves a shot. I,ll keep my fingers crossed 
Groza76
Go Browns, WIN or lose, forever!
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Legend
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I don't and will never consider the #22 pick in the first round a "flier pick".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Me either. Any first round pick should be the best pick or near equal to the best pick in the draft for that team.
To me, flyers start in the 4th round. The first three rounds need to be quality picks. Not an area to take chances.
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I actually believe we've seen flier picks on third rounders before. Even earlier. I feel Hardesty was one such pick considering his injury history.
IMO it's something you just don't do.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Kaluka Maiva?
Brian Robiskie?
Brandon WEEDEN?
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The list could go on and on. But if I really felt like this FO took a flier on Johnny Football like the past one did with Weeden, I'd be ill.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
The list could go on and on. But if I really felt like this FO took a flier on Johnny Football like the past one did with Weeden, I'd be ill.
If I felt about Manziel the same way I felt about Weeden I would have reacted the same way....Asked for my check and left the bar, not caring who else we drafted.
This time I was excited, not disgusted and dejected.
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Legend
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I was neither excited nor disgusted and dejected. I saw it as a Colt McCoy on steroids kind of pick. Great accomplishments in the NCAA with many accolades, but a much better athlete and scrambler. I think the jury is far from in on how it will turn out. Not sure how he'll develop and hope he doesn't get crushed in the NFL. I guess I viewed it as they drafted him much closer to where I had him rated and was happy they didn't spend a higher pick on him than they did.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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My biggest hope with Manzel is that he can read defenses. It's one thing to improvise like each snap is a broken play, but if he can understand defenses he'll be head and shoulders above anyone we've put behind center so far sans Jeff Garcia.
I kinda see Manzel as a Jeff Garcia in that regard. Quick decision maker on broken plays. Hell, Garcia put the whole team on his back and damn near beat Philly by himself in a high scoring game.
If Johnny can read defenses well enough to run the scheme as it's written up he's more than half-way there considering his broken play mentality.
#gmstrong
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That's a lot of IFs for a guy that has never had a playbook and played mostly ad-hoc, one-read, spread football. What he has done and what he will be doing -- it'd be hard for them to be more different without actually being different sports.
I see him as somewhat as a cross between McCoy and Frye. I see his ceiling as being Jeff Garcia; if he can get his act together.
I just don't hold out a lot of hope for the guy right now.... I pray that when camps open, he starts to give people a reason to have some hope and be excited.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I was certainly bummed when we took him, but landing Gilbert and Buffalo's first rounder softened the blow.
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We all certainly hope for the best. Maybe Hoyer on steroids would be a better description of Manziel. I'm not sure.
What you describe would certainly give us reason for optimism. It will be refreshing to hear news about football for a change in terms of Johnny Football. Hopefully it will be positive and proven right moving forward.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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JC I didn't like JF at 4... I don't mind JF at where we picked him. For once I don't feel 100% crappy about our QB situation. Just like, 65% crappy lol!
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Legend
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I feel that we have to keep taking shots at top level QBs until we find one that works.
I am not saying grab one every year with the 1st round pick ..... but every 2-3 years until we find the right guy is not unreasonable. We need the QB, because until we find him, we're a 4-6 win team.
Hopefully Manziel will be that guy, but, if not, then we should be looking for one high in the 2016 draft. Just gotta keep taking shots until you find your franchise guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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I believe that to be very accurate. Which is why I really don't blame this FO for taking a shot at it. My preference was not in the shot that they took, but time will tell the tale on that one. But QB is the position you have to get right at some point. And you won't get there without trying.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I feel that we have to keep taking shots at top level QBs until we find one that works.
I am not saying grab one every year with the 1st round pick ..... but every 2-3 years until we find the right guy is not unreasonable. We need the QB, because until we find him, we're a 4-6 win team.
Hopefully Manziel will be that guy, but, if not, then we should be looking for one high in the 2016 draft. Just gotta keep taking shots until you find your franchise guy.
Oh Hell Ytown, I think with Hoyer all year last year, we're 8-8 and on paper, this team looks better even if Gordon can't play.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
I feel that we have to keep taking shots at top level QBs until we find one that works.
I am not saying grab one every year with the 1st round pick ..... but every 2-3 years until we find the right guy is not unreasonable. We need the QB, because until we find him, we're a 4-6 win team.
Hopefully Manziel will be that guy, but, if not, then we should be looking for one high in the 2016 draft. Just gotta keep taking shots until you find your franchise guy.
Oh Hell Ytown, I think with Hoyer all year last year, we're 8-8 and on paper, this team looks better even if Gordon can't play.
If Hoyer works out, then great. I don't think that we can count on him being "the" guy though. Maybe he'll be our Kurt Warner ...... but NFL teams aren't overwhelmingly wrong about a player like that very often.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Agreed. And to take it one step a little deeper even - even if we do locate "the guy" - we still need to continue the quest (maybe not high round selections) cause depth, especially for OUR team, is almost as important. Look at Hoyer just last year. Winning, injury... then back-to-back loses.
Need quality depth cause an injury can occur virtually any moment. Sadly for us Browns fans, we are usually use to the injury bug!
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