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But these chalkboards prove all the emails I receive!
That's more or less what I think of when I read that Millcreek guy's posts. Hell, he's probably copying and pasting from TheBlaze most of the time.
Desperate people are desperate for answers.
But it works both ways.
I know plenty of people who turn to Obama for the same sense of comfort.
5) Hate: Liberals often define simple disagreement with them on issues like gay marriage, tax rates, or abortion as hatred. No matter how well a position is explained, or the logical underpinnings behind it, it's chalked up to hate. Meanwhile, the angriest, most vicious, most hateful people in all of politics are liberals railing against what they say is "hatred." This irony is completely lost on the Left.
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Do you think for yourself or just repost everything from a chain email?
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Do you think for yourself or just repost everything from a chain email?
I will respond for Mills because I am about 80% sure this is what he will post next. lol
1) Being Open Minded: To a liberal, this has nothing at all to do with seriously considering other people's ideas. To the contrary, liberals define being "open-minded" as agreeing with them. What could be more close-minded than assuming that not only are you right, but that you don't even need to consider another viewpoint because anyone who disagrees must be evil?
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I agree with you Lurker. Look, republicans/conservatives often play the Christian card, they play the righteous card, they play the smaller government card and they are ridiculed (and often rightfully so) when its shown that they don't really live those things...
Likewise liberals play the open-minded, free thinking, every opinion is valid card.. when in reality, that couldn't be further from the truth with many of them..
yebat' Putin
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It's why I can't really get into these conversations with much enthusiasm. It's been my experience that most people fall somewhere in the middle of the political spectrum, once you scratch off their red or blue paint jobs.
What usually ends up happening in these discussions is a weird sort of tribalism... in that many center-left or -right folks will use the talking points of the most extreme blue or red groups that identify with their party in order to score "gotcha points."
Most of life's situations and issues are simply too complex to be explained away or solved with one ideology, but honest intelligent discussion becomes scuttled when folks resort to that "us and them" approach to debate.
______________________
Believe it or not, this forum actually operates on a much higher plane than many I've encountered. I actually see evidence in here that opposing/divergent views are at least considered. A quick stroll through Politico's comment threads will leave one feeling in need of a hot shower.
It's actually possible for a person to have both liberal AND conservative values, depending on the specific subject in question... and that's why I immediately turn off when I hear a line that begins:
"Liberals are always" or
"Conservatives are always".....
Unless they are being used to portray the most closed-minded of ideologues, those descriptors simply aren't accurate- and reduce the conversation to the level of "your side sucks; my side is great."
It's like arguing with a 10th grader... nothing gets resolved- and now, you have a headache.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Finally, some common sense in a den of "deep thinkers". 
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It's actually possible for a person to have both liberal AND conservative values, depending on the specific subject in question...
Which is why so many people feel no matter which way they vote, they're never truly represented by either party.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Do you think for yourself or just repost everything from a chain email?
I will respond for Mills because I am about 80% sure this is what he will post next. lol
1) Being Open Minded: To a liberal, this has nothing at all to do with seriously considering other people's ideas. To the contrary, liberals define being "open-minded" as agreeing with them. What could be more close-minded than assuming that not only are you right, but that you don't even need to consider another viewpoint because anyone who disagrees must be evil?
Excellent choice. 
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j/c Another vote for Obama! A prominent defense adviser and analyst is calling Barack Obama the “worst president ever,” warning the consequences go far beyond politics and America, because the world is more dangerous. “This is serious stuff. Not just politics,” said Lt. Col. Ralph Peters, a commentator for Fox News, veteran military intelligence expert and author. “It’s very important to make one point here. This is nothing for conservatives or conservative-leaning independents to take delight in. Don’t gloat over Obama’s failures for political reasons. This is about foreign policy, security and the future of our country and the well-being of the entire globe.” Peters spent 10 years in military intelligence in Germany then specialized on the Soviet Union. He retired at a lieutenant colonel after working in the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence. Peters was on Sean Hannity’s Fox News show Tuesday to discuss Obama’s foreign policy. The questions arose after Obama spokesman Josh Earnest claimed that Obama has been successful in intervening around the globe “in a meaningful way.” Earnest claimed that Obama has “substantially furthered America interests” and the “tranquility of the global community.” Hannity and Peters wondered just where that tranquility was. Peters pointed to a “litany of Obama’s disastrous failures.” “Russia. Hey, when’s the last time you heard anybody talk about Putin giving back Ukraine? We had that catastrophic nuclear deal where we gave away important systems and Russia gave away junk that was headed for the stockpile,” he said. “Then you have Iran. They’re playing us like a violin. Iraq. Rise of a caliphate state, a terror state. The reaction in Egypt. The mess in Libya. You’ve got Boko Haram in Nigeria; you’ve got a mess in Somalia, South Sudan, tragedies nobody even hears about.” He continued: “This list goes on and on. North Korea. China belligerent. You can throw a dart at a map of the world … Venezuela. How about that? How are we doing down there? Central America. Our own southwest border, which is certainly a security issue.” Peters noted that many have called Obama the worst president ever, and “it sounds like hyperbole.” “But in the foreign policy and security spheres, without doubt, speaking as a student of American history, without doubt Obama is by far the worst foreign policy and security president we have ever had,” he said. “We have never before had such a combination of pervasive, extensive failures on virtually every continent,” Peters said. “At the same time we have shameless self-congratulations from the White House.” He believes the root of the problem is the Obama came into office in 2009 “really prejudiced against America.””In foreign policy he saw America and the West, and certainly Israel, as the problem, or certainly the cause of the problem, and Islamist extremism and Russian intransigence as effects.” Peters said when America is weak the world suffers “America has not been this weak in my lifetime. Even Jimmy Carter looks relatively strong by comparison on two fronts,” he said. “One, Carter had a strong sense of morality and ethics, personal and professional ethics. Second, Carter was willing to learn. … There’s no sign that Obama is.” Peters long has been critical of Obama’s foreign policy but recently has become more pointed in his comments. He said Obama “believes you can negotiate with cancer tumors,” calling him a “fool and a weakling.” He also, referring to the jihadist insurgency in Iraq, said Obama is “a coward and he won’t make tough decisions to defend America.” “Presidents are supposed to make hard decisions,” he said. “Bush was derided for saying I’m the decider, but … that’s what a president is.” Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/defense-expert-calls-obama-worst-president-ever/#1wzQeFBSzGx2rpEI.99
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It's actually possible for a person to have both liberal AND conservative values, depending on the specific subject in question...
Which is why so many people feel no matter which way they vote, they're never truly represented by either party.
I feel that no matter which way I vote that I'm not represented primarily due to the fact that both parties are full of morons... and I don't consider myself a moron. 
yebat' Putin
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I have to wonder what Pat Paulsen would say about you ?
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It's actually possible for a person to have both liberal AND conservative values, depending on the specific subject in question...
Which is why so many people feel no matter which way they vote, they're never truly represented by either party.
I feel that no matter which way I vote that I'm not represented primarily due to the fact that both parties are full of morons... and I don't consider myself a moron.
Seriously though, it is difficult to vote when there are no good choices. I often find myself trying to psych myself up for a candidate, even when they are not exactly what I want as President, or Senator, or whatever.
One day I will have a candidate who I can 100% be happy to support ......
Oh wait ,.. this is the real world. never mind. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Seriously though,
I know I put a smiley face on it, but I was being serious.
I doubt I will ever find a candidate I can get behind 100% because as Pit said, I have beliefs that cross party lines and you can't get nominated to run without a total commitment to one party platform or the other.
That said, I want to vote for a leader, somebody who says what they mean and then at least tries to do what they said... somebody who can show strength but is also willing to work with other ideas, somebody who can build consensus around good ideas..... all against the backdrop of moving the country forward... and those candidates are extremely scarce.
yebat' Putin
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~ Legend
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It's actually possible for a person to have both liberal AND conservative values, depending on the specific subject in question...
Which is why so many people feel no matter which way they vote, they're never truly represented by either party.
I feel that no matter which way I vote that I'm not represented primarily due to the fact that both parties are full of morons... and I don't consider myself a moron.
Seriously though, it is difficult to vote when there are no good choices. I often find myself trying to psych myself up for a candidate, even when they are not exactly what I want as President, or Senator, or whatever.
One day I will have a candidate who I can 100% be happy to support ......
Oh wait ,.. this is the real world. never mind.
You should probably stop voting for either Republicans or Democrats then...
What's the quote? Insanity is doing something over and over again expecting different results?
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You should probably stop voting for either Republicans or Democrats then...
What's the quote? Insanity is doing something over and over again expecting different results?
Did you heed that advice when you voted for Obama?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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What is the option, other than trying to vote for the lesser of 2 evils? I am stuck with the idea that it is better to vote for someone who might be slightly closer to my ideas, as opposed to not voting and, in essence, thus endorsing the person further from me in ideology.
I understand those who say "Well, then don't vote", but that doesn't make things better either. The Parties won't care if 50% of the country votes, or 20% does, as long as they get more than half of the votes of those who bother to vote, and they gain/hold power.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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5) Hate: Liberals often define simple disagreement with them on issues like gay marriage, tax rates, or abortion as hatred. No matter how well a position is explained, or the logical underpinnings behind it, it's chalked up to hate.
You're not explaining your position well, nor are you using logic.
You're posting chain e-mails for crying out loud.
And I don't hate you. I don't even know you.
I just find your method of debate to be somewhat humorous.
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~ Legend
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You should probably stop voting for either Republicans or Democrats then...
What's the quote? Insanity is doing something over and over again expecting different results?
Did you heed that advice when you voted for Obama?
I've never voted for Obama.
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What is the option, other than trying to vote for the lesser of 2 evils? I am stuck with the idea that it is better to vote for someone who might be slightly closer to my ideas, as opposed to not voting and, in essence, thus endorsing the person further from me in ideology.
I understand those who say "Well, then don't vote", but that doesn't make things better either. The Parties won't care if 50% of the country votes, or 20% does, as long as they get more than half of the votes of those who bother to vote, and they gain/hold power.
I'd never advocate not voting. Voting is extremely important to the longevity of a country. I just don't advocate voting Republican or Democrat. There are a host of other parties to vote for that you can help by voting for them.
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5) Hate: Liberals often define simple disagreement with them on issues like gay marriage, tax rates, or abortion as hatred. No matter how well a position is explained, or the logical underpinnings behind it, it's chalked up to hate.
You're not explaining your position well, nor are you using logic.
You're posting chain e-mails for crying out loud.
And I don't hate you. I don't even know you.
I just find your method of debate to be somewhat humorous.
Not to say that he is 100% correct here ...... but there are some on the left who do use "hate" as a tool.
Republicans have a "war" on women. You don't go to war against someone you love. Republicans "hate" gay people if they are against gay marriage. They "hate" black people if they oppose affirmative action. They "hate" single mothers if they oppose dumbing money into welfare programs. They "hate" school kids if they oppose blank checks for schools.
The list goes on. It is a fairly well established tactic. The Republicans have used it as well .... that Liberals "hate" businesses. They "hate" the military, and so on.
The chain letter isn't a news story, but that doesn't mean that it's absolutely wrong. There is often a kernel of truth at the center of these things, and there certainly is in the above quoted line.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg.... it's why I despise so much of the vacuous rhetoric we hear today. It really is system-wide nowadays. Pundits on both sides of the political center use "War On [insert noun here]" on an almost weekly basis. We've become so inundated with the 'language of hyperbole' that terms like "hate" get thrown around like brand names on a game show. It cheapens the way we use words. It cheapens the meanings of words. Consequently, we risk allowing it to cheapen the way we think. All these "shortcuts to the moneybyte" exact a price... in the way we address each other, in the way we discuss issues of import.... and even how we think about the deep stuff of life. Serious, critical thinking takes time and effort... and commitment. Serious discussion magnifies the effort required by an order of magnitude. Most folks are too rushed, too distracted, too short-sighted and/or too ideologically entrenched (which is their own damned fault...) to take that time and make that effort. Quote:
The chain letter isn't a news story, but that doesn't mean that it's absolutely wrong.
And this is a prime example of my main beef: It's not news, it doesn't come from a credible source, and it's not even vetted for truth.... yet it somehow is given equal weight in a reader's mind- enough weight to compel him to post it as justification for his (already set) way of thought.
The fact that this chain e-mail may be %.0001 accurate isn't the issue, as far as I'm concerned. What concerns me is this:
If the person I'm trying to talk to thinks that a chain e-mail is credible enough to quote in a political debate, then there's really no 'common ground for discussion' upon which we can meet. And THAT'S what's screwing America these days, more than anything else. (IMHO)
These issues are too important to be influenced by such lowbrow stuff as a chain letter. American citizens should be operating on a higher plane than that by now. We've had almost 240 years to get our shiite together. WTF's taking so long? !!!
.02
(for better or worse-)
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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As I pointed out, there is more and just 0.01% truth to this particular section though. (and there would have been if the opposite side used it as well)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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If you can't see that BOTH parties are equally and incurably corrupt to the core, then you then you shouldn't vote. The only difference between the two is what group of billionaires they rush to kiss the asses of. The biggest problem is, a President with leadership qualities seems to be a thing of the past.
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It's a lowest common denominator method of debate or discussion. If you're using the term 'conservative' or 'liberal' as an insult, you're probably not making a very coherent argument.
And, as I always point out...they're more or less worthless terms when discussing American government. The GOP isn't conservative, and the Democrats aren't liberal.
You're more or less discussing boogeymen in that regard.
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The problem is, there are extremists on both sides. And what happens is those people are pointed out in an effort to say that this is what all of them believe. That's what they all want and that is their prime goals. Which is far from the truth depending on the candidate. I mean every Democrat that runs is suddenly, "The most liberal Democrat there is!" When people said that about Clinton, I had to laugh.
Unfortunately, with society being more sheep than free thinkers, many actually believe that kind of propaganda BS.
The problem becomes that to win a party nomination, a candidate can no longer be themselves. They have to sell out for the party line to get endorsed by that party. So nothing ever really changes.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Why Bill Clinton Outleads Barack Obama Last week, Harvard professor, Larry Summers, gave an interesting interview to Aspen Institute president and CEO, Walter Isaacson. While Summers’ comment about the Winklevoss twins was funny, his observations about the different leadership styles of Clinton and Obama were intriguing. Summers worked for both presidents and his thoughts about their respective leadership styles shed light on why Clinton was far more effective than Obama. My interpretation is that Obama does everything that a textbook manager should do — he hires what he thinks are the best people, he respects their time, he reads their thoughts, he provides his vision, and he lets those people carry out their recommendations. By contrast, Clinton also hired great people but he had zero respect for their time, rarely read their thoughts on a topic before a meeting, but did an amazingly broad amount of thinking about the topic and added a variety of important insights that helped carry forward the achievement of his goals — far more than the subordinate had been able to accomplish. Summers compared the two on four dimensions: •Staying on schedule. OBAMA. Summers made it very clear that Obama runs White House meetings with very tight adherence to schedules. Those meetings generally begin and end within minutes of their scheduled time. By contrast, Clinton was famous for keeping people waiting. •Reading staff memos before meetings. OBAMA. Summers pointed out that Clinton read his memos about 30% of the time; whereas Obama read them religiously and would cut off Summers if he tried to explain something that Obama had already read. •Delegation to subordinates. OBAMA. As Summers explained, Obama would not interfere with the implementation of ideas proposed by Summers — for example, he would leave it to Summers to decide how to finance a bailout he was recommending. By contrast, Clinton would dig into the policy thinking and details of an economic issue and leave Summers feeling that Clinton was teaching Summers how to do his job better. •Adding new ideas. CLINTON. This last area is where Clinton massively distinguishes himself from Obama. As Summers pointed out, Clinton would have read from a variety of respected economic research journals and sources of ground-breaking economic thought and bring those ideas to the meeting. By contrast, Obama would ask a few questions “to kick the tires,” talk about how the policy fit with his vision, and end the meeting. When Bill Clinton became president, the U.S. economy was recovering from a recession. He left office with a country that had 22.2 million new jobs, a budget surplus, and low national debt. Obama took over a country in the midst of the worst financial crisis in generations and he has not brought any profound new ideas that have boosted job creation. And as America stumbles to resolve a debt crisis manufactured by his political opposition, it is clear that the best people that Obama surrounded himself with are not adding enough value for him to set the agenda — which ought to be about resolving the jobs crisis — and chart a course to get America there. Being a textbook professional manager may work well for a company that is growing steadily without hiccups. But running America requires creative thinking that produces effective solutions to new and difficult challenges. Bill Clinton offered America that skill and that’s why his leadership outpaces Obama’s. http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2011/07/26/why-bill-clinton-outleads-barack-obama/
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If you're looking for me to argue that Obama is a better president than Clinton was, you won't find that argument here.
I didn't care for Clinton's moral character, but I thought he was a better president than Obama is.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Better by far, and much more intelligent.
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I don't think you'll find very many arguments there.
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If the US would lower those corporate rates, more companies would come back and base their companies here
How much lower can you go, though, without putting yourself on par with a banana republic?
What's our effective corporate tax rate? 12-13%?
You can't really operate at at the level some of these other countries do when you run the war machine like we do, and have as many marginalized citizens you have to pay off like we do.
The effective rate is 35%. I'd love to see it at 12-13%.
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If the US would lower those corporate rates, more companies would come back and base their companies here
How much lower can you go, though, without putting yourself on par with a banana republic?
What's our effective corporate tax rate? 12-13%?
You can't really operate at at the level some of these other countries do when you run the war machine like we do, and have as many marginalized citizens you have to pay off like we do.
The effective rate is 35%. I'd love to see it at 12-13%.
You can't honestly think the tax rate is the main problem. Japan has a corporate tax rate of 35.64. Yet their unemployment is at a whopping 3.5 percent.
Also, our tax rate is 40 percent, not 35. And it's been that way since ATLEAST 2006.
This is capitalism folks. There's a reason japan is successful on epic proportions over us, and it ain't the tax rate. It's because they run on a quasi capitalism system. They just don't let corporation run free and do whatever the hell they want like we do over here.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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If the US would lower those corporate rates, more companies would come back and base their companies here
How much lower can you go, though, without putting yourself on par with a banana republic?
What's our effective corporate tax rate? 12-13%?
You can't really operate at at the level some of these other countries do when you run the war machine like we do, and have as many marginalized citizens you have to pay off like we do.
The effective rate is 35%. I'd love to see it at 12-13%.
You can't honestly think the tax rate is the main problem. Japan has a corporate tax rate of 35.64. Yet their unemployment is at a whopping 3.5 percent.
Also, our tax rate is 40 percent, not 35. And it's been that way since ATLEAST 2006.
This is capitalism folks. There's a reason japan is successful on epic proportions over us, and it ain't the tax rate. It's because they run on a quasi capitalism system. They just don't let corporation run free and do whatever the hell they want like we do over here.
Which is why their economy imploded so much faster than ours, and more times in recent memory 
Taxes are not the issue.... American wages are the problem. WE are our biggest problem.
The price of everyone in this country trying to live high on the hog is that anything made in this country is prohibitively expensive to produce. Companies can make their products on the other side of the Earth and have things shipped here for less than simply hiring Americans in American factories.
Everyone wants better wages, nobody wants to face the ramifications of that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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More so, everybody want better wages, but they also want cheaper goods.
Nothing like working at Chevy/Ford and then buying a Honda.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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You can't honestly think the tax rate is the main problem. Japan has a corporate tax rate of 35.64. Yet their unemployment is at a whopping 3.5 percent.
Also, our tax rate is 40 percent, not 35. And it's been that way since ATLEAST 2006.
This is capitalism folks. There's a reason japan is successful on epic proportions over us, and it ain't the tax rate. It's because they run on a quasi capitalism system. They just don't let corporation run free and do whatever the hell they want like we do over here.
Wow, their minimum wage must be like $15/hour...
yebat' Putin
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I wonder what their welfare system is like .....?
I bet it's really generous.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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JC. Absolutely, Obama is the worst President of the United States of America, he is also the best President of the United States of America. Probably because he is the only current President of the United States of America. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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More so, everybody want better wages, but they also want cheaper goods.
Nothing like working at Chevy/Ford and then buying a Honda.
I own 2 of the most American made autos, both are Honda's...
https://autos.yahoo.com/photos/10-most-american-made-cars-1404166628-slideshow/
More Toyotas and Hondas on that list than anything else. I wonder how much of that money makes it's way back to Japan?
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If the US would lower those corporate rates, more companies would come back and base their companies here
How much lower can you go, though, without putting yourself on par with a banana republic?
What's our effective corporate tax rate? 12-13%?
You can't really operate at at the level some of these other countries do when you run the war machine like we do, and have as many marginalized citizens you have to pay off like we do.
The effective rate is 35%. I'd love to see it at 12-13%.
It doesn't sound like you know what 'effective' means.
The effective corporate tax rate in the U.S. averages 12.6%.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Is Obama the Worst President?
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