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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/no-job-loss-most-states-094500529.htmlWhen the Congressional Budget Office, earlier this year, released a report finding that the Obama administration’s proposal to raise the federal minimum wage to $10.10 an hour would cost jobs, the White House was furious. The CBO, said members of the president’s Council of Economic Advisers, were relying too much on older research on the subject, and not enough on the most recent findings. Related: Strong Jobs Report Masks Woes of Long-Term Unemployed In an angry blog post, CEA Chair Jason Furman and economist Betsey Stevenson wrote, “Seven Nobel Prize winners and more than 600 other economists recently stated that: 'In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market.'” The CBO defended its numbers, and to many, the CEA response looked like a knee-jerk reaction – members of the president’s administration defending a preferred policy move in the face of evidence that it might not have the real-world effects the president had promised. However, it turns out, the administration might have had a point. Beginning in January of this year, 13 states individually increased their own minimum wages, creating a sort of natural experiment in which the remaining states could serve as a control group. All that was left was for someone to do the math, and the Center for Economic and Policy Research, building on research conducted earlier in the year by Goldman Sachs, delivered that in a report last week. Related: The Truth About Minimum Wage Workers’ Take-Home Pay Of the 13 states that raised their minimum wages, all but one saw job growth in the first five months of 2014. To be sure, that’s a small achievement in an environment where the national economy is adding something on the order of 250,000 jobs per month. The really interesting finding is that the states that raised the minimum wage saw job growth that was, on average, higher than states that did not. The 37 states that did not raise the minimum wage at the beginning of this year saw employment increase by .68 percent. Those that did raise the wage saw employment increase by .99 percent. Four of the top ten states in terms of employment performance were states that raised the wage, including Washington, Oregon, Colorado, and Florida. The biggest outlier was New Jersey, which was not only the worst performing of the states that raised the wage, but the worst performing state altogether, with a net decline in employment of .56 percent. Related: Minimum Wage Hike Comes with Costs The takeaway number from the CEPR report, however, is that evidence appears to be accumulating to suggest that the CBO’s take on the impact of the wage was overly pessimistic. “While this kind of simple exercise can't establish causality, it does provide evidence against theoretical negative employment effects of minimum-wage increases,” wrote CEPR’s Ben Wolcott. -------- lol, man, the conservatives told me the country was going to explode!! There would be riots in the streets because companies will lay off workers!!! Wait, that didn't happen? I'm outraged that raising the minimal wage didn't raise he unemployment!! All well, on to the next topic of fear mongering for the right wing.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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The article is kind of useless without telling us what the wage was raised to and what it started at. Did I miss that? I did a quick search, and Florida's is 7.93 up a whole .14 from 7.79 in 2013. Raising it to 10.10 would have a very negative affect, and anyone who thinks otherwise is blind IMO. PDF link Useless propaganda article that doesn't show real numbers.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Quote:
The article is kind of useless without telling us what the wage was raised to and what it started at. Did I miss that?
I did a quick search, and Florida's is 7.93 up a whole .14 from 7.79 in 2013. Raising it to 10.10 would have a very negative affect, and anyone who thinks otherwise is blind IMO.
PDF link
Useless propaganda article that doesn't show real numbers.
How is it useless? The article shows the numbers and that jobs were added in the states the raised them.
Y'all keep saying it will have a negative effect.
But so far, it's he opposite.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
Quote:
The article is kind of useless without telling us what the wage was raised to and what it started at. Did I miss that?
I did a quick search, and Florida's is 7.93 up a whole .14 from 7.79 in 2013. Raising it to 10.10 would have a very negative affect, and anyone who thinks otherwise is blind IMO.
PDF link
Useless propaganda article that doesn't show real numbers.
How is it useless? The article shows the numbers and that jobs were added in the states the raised them.
Y'all keep saying it will have a negative effect.
But so far, it's he opposite.
You must like  if you expect anything but the response you already got on this board
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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~ Legend
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History and research studies have shown time and time again that raising the minimum wage does not lead to mass lay offs, firings, extreme inflation or anything the doomsayers say.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The article is kind of useless without telling us what the wage was raised to and what it started at. Did I miss that?
I did a quick search, and Florida's is 7.93 up a whole .14 from 7.79 in 2013. Raising it to 10.10 would have a very negative affect, and anyone who thinks otherwise is blind IMO.
PDF link
Useless propaganda article that doesn't show real numbers.
How is it useless? The article shows the numbers and that jobs were added in the states the raised them.
Y'all keep saying it will have a negative effect.
But so far, it's he opposite.
You must like if you expect anything but the response you already got on this board
I mean it's simple. More more people make means more money they spend, which drives business to hire more to make more product.
I learned that in high school, and the majority of posters have way better jobs than me, and civilian experience do you'd think they know that.
I think people on this board is more concerned about being right then the concern about American people....sort of like politicians.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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~ Legend
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If you really want to see a fun conversation on here, you should start a thread on minimum income.
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Quote:
Quote:
The article is kind of useless without telling us what the wage was raised to and what it started at. Did I miss that?
I did a quick search, and Florida's is 7.93 up a whole .14 from 7.79 in 2013. Raising it to 10.10 would have a very negative affect, and anyone who thinks otherwise is blind IMO.
PDF link
Useless propaganda article that doesn't show real numbers.
How is it useless? The article shows the numbers and that jobs were added in the states the raised them.
Y'all keep saying it will have a negative effect.
But so far, it's he opposite.
Raising it almost $3 would affect prices of everything, giving less buying power to everyone. As Dave showed in his meme, which is a little extreme, prices of everyday items will increase substantially. Raising it .14 is about a 1.7% raise, something a lot of workers get as a cost of living adjustment for inflation every year (granted that isn't even normal anymore). I have no problem with a raise of this amount; it is the ridiculous 2.31 (what it would have taken to get Florida's minimum wage to 10.10), or almost 30% raise, that would be way out of line. Do you really think that a 30% raise would be sustainable to most businesses, especially smaller ones?
#gmstrong
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If you really want to see a fun conversation on here, you should start a thread on minimum income.
Are you making a reference to welfare? I think most on here believe it is needed, but it should not be a way of life.
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Nice article here. web page Minimum wage was $5.15 from 1997 and is now $7.25. In other words, based on a 40 hour week, you'd earn $206 in 97 and $290 starting in 09, before taxes. In 2002, a Big Mac was 1.15% of that weekly pay. In 2013 that same Big Mac is 1.45% of the 2009 40 hour weekly pay. The change in minimum wage does affect prices, just like raising gas prices, burning corn for fuel, and everything else our silly government does. We are still in a supply and demand system. If people make more money, the prices go up, and usually they don't go up in proportion to the pay raise. As everyone is forced to pay more, everyone uses that as an excuse to raise their prices on everything. The prices are also raised based on what the corporations think their new costs will be, with a padding to cover an underestimation. Raising minimum wage is not the answer. Those jobs were meant for kids and the lesser educated. Lowering corporate taxes and removing onerous regulations is the better way. This will bring in more high paying jobs, leaving the minimum pay jobs for the people they were intended.
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
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~ Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
If you really want to see a fun conversation on here, you should start a thread on minimum income.
Are you making a reference to welfare? I think most on here believe it is needed, but it should not be a way of life.
Not exactly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income
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Quote:
Quote:
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If you really want to see a fun conversation on here, you should start a thread on minimum income.
Are you making a reference to welfare? I think most on here believe it is needed, but it should not be a way of life.
Not exactly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income
There are several types of minimum income - guaranteed and basic are the two that came to my mind. You didn't differentiate so I wasn't sure what you were talking about, though I should have assumed it was the most socialistic one of the two. 
#gmstrong
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~ Legend
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I aim to please :P But I should have been more specific.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The article is kind of useless without telling us what the wage was raised to and what it started at. Did I miss that?
I did a quick search, and Florida's is 7.93 up a whole .14 from 7.79 in 2013. Raising it to 10.10 would have a very negative affect, and anyone who thinks otherwise is blind IMO.
PDF link
Useless propaganda article that doesn't show real numbers.
How is it useless? The article shows the numbers and that jobs were added in the states the raised them.
Y'all keep saying it will have a negative effect.
But so far, it's he opposite.
Raising it almost $3 would affect prices of everything, giving less buying power to everyone. As Dave showed in his meme, which is a little extreme, prices of everyday items will increase substantially. Raising it .14 is about a 1.7% raise, something a lot of workers get as a cost of living adjustment for inflation every year (granted that isn't even normal anymore). I have no problem with a raise of this amount; it is the ridiculous 2.31 (what it would have taken to get Florida's minimum wage to 10.10), or almost 30% raise, that would be way out of line. Do you really think that a 30% raise would be sustainable to most businesses, especially smaller ones?
How fast the minimal wage should have gone up is another topic. The government should've been slowly increasing he wage amount that way it is sustainable. So in that regard you are correct
But there are many people flat out opposed to he wage bein raised period. And that's just being a douche.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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How fast the minimal wage should have gone up is another topic. The government should've been slowly increasing he wage amount that way it is sustainable. So in that regard you are correct
But there are many people flat out opposed to he wage bein raised period. And that's just being a douche.
Just out of curiosity, I did a few quick calculations from when I started my first job at Tony Packo's in Toledo busing tables in 1987 making 4.25/hour (more than minimum wage, which I believe was 3.35 if I recall correctly). Giving a 2% raise per year from then until now would net a wage of around 7.25 which is pretty close to where minimum wage is at. A 2% raise per year is pretty standard as a cost of living adjustment, but most don't even get that anymore regardless of what they do.
Now, I understand that there are a lot of other factors to look at, especially inflation, but it seems as if the minimum wage has increased at the same rate as most people get raises, which brings me to the point Erik made - minimum wage was never meant to be a sustainable living.
#gmstrong
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Minimum wage is collective bargaining, just with the threat of federal law violations if you go lower (or work for tips). So I suppose it depends on whether you're pro union or not.
The bigger worry to me is how many people are working in minimum wage capacity that need the income to sustain themselves. If a 16 yo kid is working mcdonalds I don't see why they need 10 bucks an hour. But we have alot of adults working fast food now and it shows to me that we have an underemployment problem. This also hurts our young people because job experience is the most important thing hiring managers look for in any job field.
I've felt for a while we should have an age based minimum wage, similar to how we have limits on how much you can work at a young age. This would solve two, maybe three problems. Firstly it would help those who work for a living by allowing them a higher minimum wage. Secondly it would help keep our younger generation more marketable to businesses so they can build important experience lessons early in life. A third possible benefit would be making minimum wage automatically increase based on COLA, rather than by an act of legislation. It being an act of legislation is why Min Wage often lags for a long time and then gets a big spike.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Quote:
How is it useless? The article shows the numbers and that jobs were added in the states the raised them.
Y'all keep saying it will have a negative effect.
But so far, it's he opposite.
I hope it works.. but the economy was adding jobs so a few months worth of data in an already improving economy is a very limited sample and doesn't prove much. What was the trend in those states before they raised it?
Just like when Obamacare came out and early on people started posting articles about companies changing their hiring practices, changing their benefits, people losing their insurance, etc and all of the defenders said, "It's early, give it a chance, see how these things get worked out in the long run." Well the same applies here.
Let's see how it does over a longer period of time, let's see how it responds if the market turns down, let's just watch it and hope. 
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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j/c
The problem is the cost of the very things needed to exist are rising even when minimum wage has been stagnant. Food, fuel are the two things that stand out most along with housing when renting.
So people on minimum wage have been devastated with a stagnant minimum wage. Anyone who can't see this as a huge problem must be blind. The less people make, the more government assistance they qualify for which helps balloon social spending. Something the very people who oppose an increase in minimum wage want spending decreased on.
I don't discount that an increase in minimum wage causes the price of things to increase. It simply has to. Businesses and corporations pass all increased costs on to the consumer. To keep their profit margins in line, they have no choice but to do so.
What happens in this vicious cycle, is that those workers who need pay increases the very most, get those pay increases swallowed up quickly by increasing costs. Minimum wage workers who get such an increase have a very short term benefit from that increase then and up back at square one.
I don't have an answer to this problem. I fully understand people can't eat, house themselves and provide themselves with transportation on minimum wage. It's not hard to do the math there. I also know that an increase to say $10.10 an hour over a period of a few years will not help this situation because the cost of goods and services will simply increase to a point that will equal or exceed their raises.
It's not as if I don't understand the problem. I simply don't see a solution that is viable in either scenario.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I would like to see some numbers, if they even exist, on the percentage of minimum wage workers where that job is their primary/only income. I think the real issue is that this number has increased substantially in the past 10-15 years. IMO, a minimum wage position was never supposed to be a lifelong career, but due to many reasons this has become a much more normal occurrence.
Grocery prices are crazy. I went to the store today and some small limes that I bought were .99 per lime! Meat is crazy too - a 1.25lb pork tenderloin was $8.75. A pound of Italian sausage was 3.99. I spent $50 and didn't get a whole heck of a lot.
#gmstrong
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Minimum wage increases may have helped the bottom somewhat ...... but in Ohio, at least, the minimum wage is tied to a price index ...... so as prices increase so does the minimum ....... and you have a static "bottom".
However, the middle class has seem wages stagnate or decline. As prices increase becauseof inflationary forces at the bottom, their purchasing power is squeezed more and more.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
I would like to see some numbers, if they even exist, on the percentage of minimum wage workers where that job is their primary/only income. I think the real issue is that this number has increased substantially in the past 10-15 years. IMO, a minimum wage position was never supposed to be a lifelong career, but due to many reasons this has become a much more normal occurrence.
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Contrary to stereotypes and the repeated claims of minimum wage opponents, the overwhelming majority of low-wage workers are adults, not teens, and they contribute a substantial portion of their households’ incomes. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, three quarters of minimum wage earners are 20 or older.
http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/pages/demographics
I know that isn't a direct answer to your question, but the myth that it's mostly teen agers that hold such jobs doesn't seem to hold water IMO
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Grocery prices are crazy. I went to the store today and some small limes that I bought were .99 per lime! Meat is crazy too - a 1.25lb pork tenderloin was $8.75. A pound of Italian sausage was 3.99. I spent $50 and didn't get a whole heck of a lot.
It's getting increasingly harder for even those on the lower end of what is considered middle income wage earners to meet such increasing costs.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Legend
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Minimum wage increases may have helped the bottom somewhat ...... but in Ohio, at least, the minimum wage is tied to a price index ...... so as prices increase so does the minimum ....... and you have a static "bottom".
However, the middle class has seem wages stagnate or decline. As prices increase becauseof inflationary forces at the bottom, their purchasing power is squeezed more and more.
And that, to me, is the problem... the CEOs and executives are going to make their money.. so if the bottom employees have to make 25% more to keep up with minimum wage, it is going to be those salary management folks in the middle who are going to take the hit...
so over the longer term, as the lowest rung of employees make more money, they will begin to catch up with the salary management level above them... prices will rise.. and instead of moving the bottom employees up the ladder, the net effect is that you have moved the middle management folks down the ladder...
yebat' Putin
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I know that isn't a direct answer to your question, but the myth that it's mostly teen agers that hold such jobs doesn't seem to hold water IMO
It definitely is not true anymore, but was it ever the case that these jobs were not meant as a career path? I know in the 80's when I worked busing tables, most of the staff was high school or college students. Today that certainly seems to be different.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Minimum wage increases may have helped the bottom somewhat ...... but in Ohio, at least, the minimum wage is tied to a price index ...... so as prices increase so does the minimum ....... and you have a static "bottom".
However, the middle class has seem wages stagnate or decline. As prices increase becauseof inflationary forces at the bottom, their purchasing power is squeezed more and more.
And that, to me, is the problem... the CEOs and executives are going to make their money.. so if the bottom employees have to make 25% more to keep up with minimum wage, it is going to be those salary management folks in the middle who are going to take the hit...
so over the longer term, as the lowest rung of employees make more money, they will begin to catch up with the salary management level above them... prices will rise.. and instead of moving the bottom employees up the ladder, the net effect is that you have moved the middle management folks down the ladder...
And increase the decline of the middle class ...... more rapidly pushing towards a more absolute upper class and lower class.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Swish....come on man....that's bogus.
Not that jobs are lost. Business has already pared down employment to a pretty lean number. There isn't a lot of fat in what it takes to operate the business. If you want to stay in business, if you have to have 5 people, 15 people, 150 people, 1500 people. Business is very good at knowing how many people they need to meet the business demand.
They will pay whatever wage is required as long as demand is there, but they will also adjust the prices.
Look at it this way, I am trying to teach you. Prices go up when wages go up. Business is going to maintain it's margins.
On my first job, I was paid $1.25 per hour.....the minimum wage in 1963....give or take a year...can't totally remember the year, but I do remember paying 24 cents a gallon for gas. In the North you'd ask for $2 worth. In the South you'd ask for 8 gallons worth.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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All Pro
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jc
Yah, I see costco's going out of business all over the place. Darn paying people well thing!!!!!!
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Legend
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JC...
The jobs are there, people will accept them at the pay offered or not.
There is a whole sector of people (youth, retirees) who do not need a minimum wage. Youth just looking for extra spending money, retirees just looking for something to get them out of the house and interact with people.
I know a few stay at home mom's that take part time work when the kids start going to school, just to get them out.
There are a lot of jobs out there that aren't worth minimum wage. You know those order takers at McD? They aren't worth $10/hour, especially since they could put up self-order terminals for a lot less. Yes they exist, in London and Paris there was 1 live person at a register in case of special orders, then about 6 self order terminals in the "lobby".
Let me tell you, it ran smooth and fast. Almost as fast as I saw people swipe their card for payment and get their order number, the number came up on the screen and was handed to them.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I've encountered these several times across Europe. The first time I saw it was at a Quick in Paris by the Arc. It was awesome, you could order in english and the order was sent back way faster than it would have been had I talked to someone at a counter.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I've encountered these several times across Europe. The first time I saw it was at a Quick in Paris by the Arc. It was awesome, you could order in english and the order was sent back way faster than it would have been had I talked to someone at a counter.
They have one in Berlin already, near that big Park inn hotel tower.
Not gonna lie..was pretty cool
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Dang , almost wish I had fast food once when I was in France... Almost
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147 |
Quote:
Dang , almost wish I had fast food once when I was in France... Almost
LOL, I never ate the food in them, but we would go in and get a drink and sit a minute during our exploring of the city, and use the free restrooms.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
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There are a lot of jobs out there that aren't worth minimum wage. You know those order takers at McD? They aren't worth $10/hour, especially since they could put up self-order terminals for a lot less. Yes they exist, in London and Paris there was 1 live person at a register in case of special orders, then about 6 self order terminals in the "lobby".
Let me tell you, it ran smooth and fast. Almost as fast as I saw people swipe their card for payment and get their order number, the number came up on the screen and was handed to them.
And this will be the new trend... decades ago American businesses thrived by finding cheap labor overseas and the lower and middle classes screamed for decades... now they will just find technology that they can invest in once and have for a long time and the lower and middle classes will scream.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259 |
And before the cheap overseas labor, child labor was legal here
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,792 Likes: 1345
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,792 Likes: 1345 |
And the more jobs they eliminate and continue to keep minimum wage low, the smaller customer base they will create. When fewer and fewer people must stop feeding the economy, the economy suffers.
There's really more than one way of looking at this.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
And the more jobs they eliminate and continue to keep minimum wage low, the smaller customer base they will create. When fewer and fewer people must stop feeding the economy, the economy suffers.
There's really more than one way of looking at this.
I agree.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
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They will pay whatever wage is required as long as demand is there, but they will also adjust the prices.
Look at it this way, I am trying to teach you. Prices go up when wages go up. Business is going to maintain it's margins.
Prices will go up to some degree, but its not that simple to maintain a margin on labor. If it were that easy, these companies wouldn't fight it. Just like regulations and taxes, they wouldn't spend huge sums on legal/lobbying/PR if they could simply "pass-it-along."
Wal-Mart would lose market share to Costco (already paying $10). McD's would lose customers to a local eatery that is already paying above minimum wage. And at some price point, people will choose water over Coca-Cola. They can't simply raise prices and maintain the same sales.
If they want to continue dominating the market on a level-labor-field, they'll have to accept smaller margins.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
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jc
Yah, I see costco's going out of business all over the place. Darn paying people well thing!!!!!!
Don't tell Costco's stock holders that. They're still yelling from the mountains that they're going out of business for paying too much for their employees.
Also Taco Bell is going to start to doing mobile ordering, so every fast food company will begin to as well.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
Alternative ordering isn't anything new. I remember faxing orders to Subway and Chinese restaurants (language barrier) back in the 90's. I was ordering pizza online 5 years ago.
And fast food has a history in getting customers to do the work in lieu of employees. You throw your trash away, you put your tray away, you do the condiments yourself, you fill up your beverage. They'll eliminate an employee if/when they can. $4.25 or $10.10
There's so much fear-mongering in any move Obama makes. "W" signed a 40% minimum wage increase and it was attached to a massive spending/deficit increase!
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... No job loss in most states that
raised minimum wage
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