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No way would I ever trade Wiggins unless it's for Tim Duncan or a 23 year old TMac.
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Legend
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Sit on what we have for a year, and if KLove wants to be here, we can sign him next offseason.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure we can't, unless he's willing to take a massive pay cut.
Trading for him gives us his Bird Rights, which allows us to go over the cap to keep him. If he hits FA, we can't afford him.
Again, could be wrong, but that's my understanding.
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he could opt in for 2015, I think that was punch referring to. I could see that as a possibility. With the cap possibly going up to 80 million , Love and Lebron could get the max 2 summers from now..
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Sit on what we have for a year, and if KLove wants to be here, we can sign him next offseason.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure we can't, unless he's willing to take a massive pay cut.
Trading for him gives us his Bird Rights, which allows us to go over the cap to keep him. If he hits FA, we can't afford him.
Again, could be wrong, but that's my understanding.
you are correct, EXCEPT that we have a huge chip for a sign-n-trade in Haywood's non-guaranteed $10mil deal (so we could give them cheap assets and still match on salary + picks).
#gmstrong
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Sorry, but that would be idiotic.
We would give up Wiggins, Bennett, a 1st round pick, and the $10 million non guaranteed contract we could use in a lopsided trade next year? That's way too much. (and I like Love as a player)
Bennett would be redundant, so that's fine. The 1st round pick next year is fine. Heck, giving up 2 first round picks next year would be fine by me. I would even be willing to entertain giving up Waiters in a deal along with Bennett and a pair of 1st rounders for Love.
I am not OK with trading away Wiggins. He is under contractual control for many years. He will be less expensive. He actually fits better with Lebron and Irving, because he doesn't need the ball in his hands.
If we do this type of trade, then Love better immediately sign a long term extension. I don't make any trade approaching that level unless he signs a long term deal as part of the deal.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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we wouldn't have to use haywood's in the trade.. Wiggins, and Bennett plus another player would be enough.. A Lebron-Kyrie-Love trio would destroy the east. We would be championship contenders for the next 3-5 yrs. I think most would agree with that..
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Legend
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Quote:
Sorry, but that would be idiotic.
We would give up Wiggins, Bennett, a 1st round pick, and the $10 million non guaranteed contract we could use in a lopsided trade next year? That's way too much. (and I like Love as a player)
That's the reality of the situation. The Haywood contract would be very much in play, if not necessary. You could use another player, but if I'm Minny, I want that right now. Maybe not come February, but right now, hell, yeah.
It's not idiotic at all, and I don't think you of all people should be calling anyone else's NBA opinions idiotic.
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I am not OK with trading away Wiggins. He is under contractual control for many years. He will be less expensive. He actually fits better with Lebron and Irving, because he doesn't need the ball in his hands.
If we do this type of trade, then Love better immediately sign a long term extension. I don't make any trade approaching that level unless he signs a long term deal as part of the deal.
I agree entirely.
But like I said, Love would be foolish to sign an extension ahead of the TV deal.
Right now, you're not getting him without paying big. You either pay a hefty price, or hope they're desperate at the deadline.
It's not like the guy is a piece. He's a major player.
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J/C
There is no way you make a deal at all without Love signing a longterm extension. No way.
PDR you bring up a great point, why would Love agree to a long term extension with the TV rights coming up? He should sit and way much like LeBron and DWade are. However if the trade goes down and Love is only willing to extend for one year, DON"T DO THE DEAL.
I am, and continue to be, torn about the Wiggins inclusion. Look the reality is that if we land Love today, we are immediately the favorites in the East. Not guaranteed, but the favorites. Who knows how long it would take Love, LeBron and Irving to mesh, but the possibilities are so enticing. We could be deadly, and in theory unstoppable. However we could be sick with Wiggins as well. What if he gets it from day one by playing alongside LeBron and Kyrie? He doesn't need or want the ball, but is effective when he has it. His defense right now is solid, and paired with LeBron we could have a ridiculous presence in the front court defensively.
I fon't do this trade without a 3-4 year commitment from Love. If he is not willing to sign longterm, back out and wait for FA next year. Giving up as much as is rumored is ludicrous without a guarantee that Love is sticking around for a while.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Quote:
Sorry, but that would be idiotic.
We would give up Wiggins, Bennett, a 1st round pick, and the $10 million non guaranteed contract we could use in a lopsided trade next year? That's way too much. (and I like Love as a player)
Bennett would be redundant, so that's fine. The 1st round pick next year is fine. Heck, giving up 2 first round picks next year would be fine by me. I would even be willing to entertain giving up Waiters in a deal along with Bennett and a pair of 1st rounders for Love.
I am not OK with trading away Wiggins. He is under contractual control for many years. He will be less expensive. He actually fits better with Lebron and Irving, because he doesn't need the ball in his hands.
If we do this type of trade, then Love better immediately sign a long term extension. I don't make any trade approaching that level unless he signs a long term deal as part of the deal.
I agree with every word you just said
Lets also keep in mind, I know he is just hitting 30. But I expect Lebron to start to lose a step in the next 5 years at the longest. I like K Love a lot, but we are set to be a very good team for a very long time right now, and I think over paying for Love could hurt that.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Sit on what we have for a year, and if KLove wants to be here, we can sign him next offseason.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure we can't, unless he's willing to take a massive pay cut.
Trading for him gives us his Bird Rights, which allows us to go over the cap to keep him. If he hits FA, we can't afford him.
Again, could be wrong, but that's my understanding.
You can't sign him next year, you would have to renounce Lebron's bird rights, and that's just not going to happen. If you want Love, you've gotta do it by the deadline.
I don't like the idea of giving up Andrew Wiggins. I buy that people are bringing up old Indians trades (Pedro/Wright amongst others) but the guy is a freak talent. If you watched him last year, as well as in this summer league, it's obvious he needs next year as a development year. I think the payoff comes sometime in the 2015-2016 season.
It is a tough decision. Defense wins championships, however the trio of Lebron, Irving, and Love is light years ahead of the Heat's big 3, offensively. Defensively, the cavs are going to have to add a perimeter defender and a rim protector at some point.
The plus side of giving up Wiggins instead of a package is that you will keep some depth. Maybe Anthony Bennett gets going, maybe Tristan Thompson gets going. Maybe Dion Waiters get going. That also gives you flexibility if you want to add more defensive type players to compliment your big 3.
I know people are freaking out, but who would have thought 3 months ago that we would even be in this pickle?
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the only thing I worry about Love is having 3 max contracts on the books, and how it could hinder us from signing other free agents. But this big 3 could play for a very long time. 5 yrs from now, Kyrie and Love are still in their prime. Lebron will be on the decline, but still may have a few more good yrs left. I tend to believe that if Wade still was a top player, James may still be in Miami. Their time just ran out..
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Here's one other consideration, and one that Terry Pluto brought up. Wiggins will be a solid defender, or better. A team starting Irving, Waiters, LeBron, Love, and whoever we can find to play Center would be an incredibly weak defensive team. The only good defender we would have would be Lebron. A team has to be at least a moderately decent defensive team to do much in the playoffs. That would be a poor defensive team, and would have no chance at upgrading anything to help it even become an average defensive team. I don't know if a bad defensive team can win a championship. An average defensive team? Sure. A bad defensive team? I don't think so. Further, LeBron doesn't want to play a billion minutes. Which player on the roster can jump in at SF and not have it turn into a grease fire? Wiggins. Who else? Maybe Bennett .... but that obviously can't happen if we trade him. Pluto Article I referred to.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Kash, I'm with you most of the way on your views.
But I can't agree that Wiggins will 'get it' from day one. This is a vet's league. He will be a nice piece going forward, but the light won't click like that. In that case, you hope the others pick up the slack of his youth.
LBJ is the best NBA guy I've ever seen in my life as far as Day One is concerned. And he was still raw.
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Still would have Andy, and use the Haywood contract to get your center.
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From Woj:
LeBron James has reached to tell Kevin Love of his desire for them to play together with the Cavaliers, front office sources tell Yahoo.
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Legend
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If LeBron wants it, throw logic out the window. Its happening.
Not to say it's illogical, either. It's very much so.
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You can't sign him next year, you would have to renounce Lebron's bird rights, and that's just not going to happen. If you want Love, you've gotta do it by the deadline.
I think you could do it via sign and trade, but then Minny would still have to sign off on it. Granted, we'd have all the leverage at that point. Love could threaten to sign anywhere the has cap space and Minny would get nothing, or we could sign and trade and they would at least get something of value.
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I would be all for this trade. Wiggens is raw. Too raw. Love is an accomplished player that would be a better fit w/LeBron and the Princeton offense. Love has already said he would be open to signing a long term deal w/us if we get LeBron.
I do this deal, w/out any hesitation at all.
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You can't sign him next year, you would have to renounce Lebron's bird rights, and that's just not going to happen. If you want Love, you've gotta do it by the deadline.
I think you could do it via sign and trade, but then Minny would still have to sign off on it. Granted, we'd have all the leverage at that point. Love could threaten to sign anywhere the has cap space and Minny would get nothing, or we could sign and trade and they would at least get something of value.
I don't think we have the assets for a S&T.
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Quote:
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You can't sign him next year, you would have to renounce Lebron's bird rights, and that's just not going to happen. If you want Love, you've gotta do it by the deadline.
I think you could do it via sign and trade, but then Minny would still have to sign off on it. Granted, we'd have all the leverage at that point. Love could threaten to sign anywhere the has cap space and Minny would get nothing, or we could sign and trade and they would at least get something of value.
I don't think we have the assets for a S&T.
How do you figure that? People are coming up with all kinds of trade scenarios now, and Minnesota still has leverage. A year from now, all we'd have to do is match salaries (And I think we could still use the trade exception we have), and offer one draft pick ... it would be way better for Minny than getting "nothing" if Love just signs with someone with cap space.
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Yeah, next year we could do any of probably 10 different S&T deals.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Then wait them out.
Cleveland and Minnesota don't have the leverage Love does.
You of all people should be all about not bending to LBJ's whims.
We got until February.
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#gmstrong
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Then wait them out.
Cleveland and Minnesota don't have the leverage Love does.
You of all people should be all about not bending to LBJ's whims.
We got until February.
That's what I've said all along ... wait them out.
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I'm only 33 years, but I'd say the Kevin Love debate is the biggest personnel decision in the history of Cleveland sports.  Another thing, love said he would be "intrigued" by the idea of playing with Leborn, has he actually said he would sign a contact with us?
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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Another thing, love said he would be "intrigued" by the idea of playing with Leborn, has he actually said he would sign a contact with us?
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/112298...ta-timberwolves
"Sources said Love would sign a long-term contract with Cleveland to play alongside James."
... then again, this is ESPN, and we know how reliable they've been with sources lately. 
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j/c Not to derail...but is it me, or does it sort of feel like you've more or less repressed the seven years he was here, and now suddenly you're allowing yourself to look back at them fondly again? 
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I'm disgusted with myself, thought I would be a hater forever. 
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Legend
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j/c
Not to derail...but is it me, or does it sort of feel like you've more or less repressed the seven years he was here, and now suddenly you're allowing yourself to look back at them fondly again?
Oh I mentioned that in the other thread ... posted the video of him hitting the game winner against the Magic and said, "finally, I can enjoy highlights like this again!"
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I dunno... I just can't get too excited... He still hasn't done anything in cleveland besides gating swept by the spurs.... I'm happy he's back and don't have the hate for him like I did four years ago... But the cavs need to go out and do something this year for me to g too excite about bron
<><
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j/c Random thoughts.....
Whats the flippin hurry here to get Love? The Cavs can make the best deal now AND the best deal later for K-Love. Start the season and let these guys ball and see what we have in Wiggins. We make this deal now we are just competing with ourselves and will have to give up Wiggins, probably Bennett and a future 1. Three 1st rounders.
What if LBJ whispers into Love's ear and tells him to decline any extension due to TV contract. Not that he probably needs to do that. That right there reduces the value of Love. No giving up the farm for a rental. Hold Minny's feet to the fire. Be patient and you might get by with giving up less and just have a huge window and future. Kevin Love can manipulate this into a super team.
"My signature line goes here."
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Only reason I feel like we should make the move for KLove now is so danny ainge doesn't make the Wolves feels like they should do him any more favors...
#gmstrong
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He still hasn't done anything in cleveland besides gating swept by the spurs...
So...as much or more than anyone in modern Cleveland sports history? 
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Legend
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Yeah those 7 years of meaningful Cavs basketball were awful. I know I prefer the Browns putting up 4-5 win seasons.
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So if the cavs have some decent years with him and make the playoffs... Maybe get to a final, but never win you'd still be fine thwt he left and came back?
I dunno.... I think with him winning two titles in Miami he needs to win a title here... I have a ton more respect for him after his letter but I'm not going to totally forget the way he left...
Don't get me wrong I'm thrilled he's here...
<><
#gmstrong
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So if the cavs have some decent years with him and make the playoffs... Maybe get to a final, but never win you'd still be fine thwt he left and came back?
I said this before ... if you wanted the Cavs to get ANY better, he almost HAD to leave when he did, because we were stuck in roster purgatory. No pieces to trade, no ability to pull free agents and draft picks at the bottom of the draft.
The WAY he left was brutal and awful, but that was the actions of a naive kid, that had the wrong people around him telling him what to do. He has since apologized a couple of times and wrote that letter. I think there's a reason he went with Sports Illustrated this time around ... it was ESPN pushing him to do the "Decision" crap.
And yeah, I'll take several decent years of being a legitimate finals contender over fighting for a first round exit annually.
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Just getting to the Finals was a miracle. The Cavs that season might have been the worst team in the league without LeBron.
Shannon Brown
Daniel Gibson
Drew Gooden
Larry Hughes!
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Damon Jones
Dwayne Jones
Donyell Marshall
Ira Newble
Sasha Pavlovic
Scot Pollard
Eric Snow
Anderson Varejao
David Wesley
No, really. That was the Finals roster (plus LBJ.)
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Exactly, the lebron we are getting is 10x the lebron we had.. he's more mature, he's smarter, he knows what needs to be done now..he knows how to play the mentor role now. And When it comes to this wiggins/love deal, ill say the same thing i've said since the beginning, its a no brainer, you go with Love..If you just have to give up wiggins and some picks...even easier. Wiggins has potential, but does he have 26/12 potential...nothing I've seen says he will be able to score that consistently. But the bottom line is you get a chance to snag a top 5 player not yet in his prime...you do it, especially since you already have the best player on the planet. I'm not sure waiting them out at this point is the most prudent thing. I rather have them have a preseason/training camp together and then at the deadline, look to add pieces based on how it goes..I see the point in waiting saunders out too, but me i'm not willing to take the risk. Just get it done.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Just getting to the Finals was a miracle. The Cavs that season might have been the worst team in the league without LeBron.
Shannon Brown
Daniel Gibson
Drew Gooden
Larry Hughes!
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Damon Jones
Dwayne Jones
Donyell Marshall
Ira Newble
Sasha Pavlovic
Scot Pollard
Eric Snow
Anderson Varejao
David Wesley
No, really. That was the Finals roster (plus LBJ.)
Ha i was just telling a buddy about this last night...the fact we got to the finals with that crew and if you go down position by position to what we have now..we are 100000x better off
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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