Quote: Just getting to the Finals was a miracle. The Cavs that season might have been the worst team in the league without LeBron.
Shannon Brown Daniel Gibson Drew Gooden Larry Hughes! Zydrunas Ilgauskas Damon Jones Dwayne Jones Donyell Marshall Ira Newble Sasha Pavlovic Scot Pollard Eric Snow Anderson Varejao David Wesley
No, really. That was the Finals roster (plus LBJ.)
Outside of Z and Andy, I can find better players down the street at a pickup game. How did that team get to the Finals?
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
Let me put it this way ... My wife is so uninterested in sports, that she would struggle to name 5 active players in ANY sport. Last night I told her that I might have to drive up to LA to catch a Lakers/Cavs game this year, and her immediate response was, "I want to go! I want to see Lebron!"
Mike Miller told ESPN Radio on Thursday that he's trying to recruit Ray Allen to sign with the Cavaliers, pointing to the veteran as the kind of player that will help LeBron James and his new team in key spots in the playoffs.
Miller, who agreed to join his good friend James and sign with the Cavs earlier this week, responded "of course," when asked on "The Herd" if he was pitching the Cavs to Allen.
"We got James Jones, now we're moving Miami to northeast Ohio," Miller said, referring to Cleveland's addition of the former Miami Heat forward on Wednesday.
Allen, who will turn 39 on July 20, played 73 games for the Heat in the regular season and all 20 postseason games last season. He averaged 9.3 points per game on 41 percent shooting in the playoffs. Allen has yet to make a decision about continuing his career, though he has talked with multiple teams to investigate his options, sources have told ESPN.com's Brian Windhorst.
"With LeBron James, you are going to win 55 to 60 games regardless. Now it's about what you do in the playoffs. For us, even with the young talent that they have there, you've gotta bring guys that have been there before, even if they are not giving you heavy minutes," Miller said.
"Because those are the guys that understand the preparation, the adjustments, things like that can really bring those guys along. And then you build it from there."
Miller, who is a career 41 percent 3-point shooter, was offered a three-year deal worth $12 million by the Denver Nuggets, but instead opted for a two-year deal worth $5.5 million with the Cavaliers in which the veteran shooter has a player option following next season, a source told ESPN.com's Jeff Goodman.
Miller said he had to put "some thought into it" before making the decision to sign with the Cavs.
"Obviously it's always tough passing up money, but at the end of the day, being able to team up with LeBron again and getting the chance to win a championship again was too much to pass up," he said.
ESPN.com's Marc Stein reported Monday that Houston and Dallas had aggressively entered the bidding in hopes of swaying Miller from choosing Cleveland. But ultimately Miller couldn't resist the opportunity to reunite with James after Miami released him via the amnesty clause in July 2013, in a move which rankled Heat veterans.
Miller said he's "always had a great relationship" with James.
"Obviously we've had some success there in Miami," he said, adding he asked himself the question of why he began playing basketball and the answer on which team to sign with became clear.
"It wasn't for the money, it was for the chance to win championships. At the end of the day, we'll see how it plays out," he said.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Does anybody know what an extension would look like for Love? Yet another one of those questions that isn't an easy answer because of the complexity of the NBA's cba/salary cap.
I know he is signed through this season, with a player option for the 2015-2016 season. Can he exercise that option now? If he could, is two years guaranteed of having Love enough to include Wiggins in a trade? I personally don't think so. A lot can happen in that amount of time and there will always be teams that are in desirable locations with the opportunity to pair superstars out there. Thinking Houston off the top of my head, but Love is also a west coast guy and played college ball in Los Angeles (UCLA.)
I'm sure timberwolves fans be be over the moon for wiggins and another player. I say sit on the situation for a while. The more that I think about, that is an absolute dram scenario for them, almost unfair when you consider what we went through in 2010.
Although it shouldn't affect what I won't the cavs to do right now, it does. So right now I'm in a holding pattern, ideally until the season gets going. I still think this is the biggest personnel decision in the history of cleveland sports.
One report I read has a deal starting ..... yes starting at Wiggins, Bennett, a 1st round pick, and enough filler to make the trade work. (maybe Delly as well)
Reportedly, Minnesota wants more.
They are insane. I pull my offer if I am the Cavaliers. I discretely ask Lebron to ask Love to again tell management, and the press n a not so discrete manner, that the only place he will sign an extension is Cleveland.
I have read some reports that say that the T'Wolves want 2 or 3 1st round picks in addition to Wiggins and Bennett. That's a king's ransom and then some.
So ..... for a guy they stand no chance of re-signing, they want, essentially, 5 first round picks, plus enough other pieces to make the payroll work.
I just can't do that if I'm the Cavaliers. We already had to give up Zeller and Karasev in order to make Lebron fit. We are in danger of turning this team from one with some degree of depth, into one that is another "big 3", with nothing else.
Further, the more I think about it, the more concerned I am about adding another awful defender to what is already a poor defensive team. Wiggins and Lebron would be able t really upgrade the defense. Removing Wiggins and adding Love turns us back into swiss cheese. It just really worries me.
I think that we should play out this year and see how things go ..... at least till the trade deadline. We can then see what the landscape of the NBA looks like. (and what this team looks like with Lebron and Wiggins alongside Irving)
I dunno. I just hope we make the right decision, whatever we decide to do. I know that Love is a talented guy, and would fit well offensively with Lebron ..... but I worry about gutting the team in order to get him. Yeah, I hope we are able to make the right decision, and a deal that doesn't gut the rest of the team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I still think this is the biggest personnel decision in the history of cleveland sports.
Its a huge decision, but so was the one that traded Ron Harper for Danny Ferry. I think that trade may have prevented at least a couple championship seasons. Could have had a starting 5 of Price, Harper, Nance, Hot Rod, and Daugherty throughout the late 80's and early 90's.
Its a huge decision, but so was the one that traded Ron Harper for Danny Ferry. I think that trade may have prevented at least a couple championship seasons. Could have had a starting 5 of Price, Harper, Nance, Hot Rod, and Daugherty throughout the late 80's and early 90's.
I hear you there, but this feels very different. It really feels like a win win situation, with tremendous ramifications along each path.
Momentum seems to be building for a blockbuster trade that would send Kevin Love to Cleveland.
The Cavaliers are now willing to include No. 1 pick Andrew Wiggins in a trade, according to widespread reports. LeBron James even called Love to tell him he wanted to play together.
A trio of LeBron, Love, and Kyrie Irving would be a younger, more offensively dynamic version of the Miami Heat's Big-3. But as great as it would be to see Love play next to James, the trade comes with risks.
It's not true that the only risk for Cleveland is that Wiggins goes on to become a superstar. The real issue here is that trading for Love severely limits their options going forward.
The trade would eat up Cleveland's cap space for the foreseeable future. The Cavaliers would be locked into LeBron-Love-Kyrie. That's their team. They could make smaller moves to put a supporting cast around them, but if you trade Wiggins for Love, you're setting your core in stone before we've even seen one game of the second LeBron era.
Assuming Love gets a maximum contract starting around $19 million, Cleveland would have ~$56.4 million committed to the new Big-3 alone in 2015-16. Even if you traded/declined to bring back Anthony Bennett, Tristian Thompson, and Dion Waiters, the most cap room Cleveland would have next summer is $6.6 million.
Here's the team's general cap situation for 2015-16 in each scenario.
Trade for Love:
LeBron James: $21.6 million Kevin Love: ~$19 million Kyrie Irving: $15.9 million Anthony Bennett/Tristian Thompson/Dion Waiters (team options/qualifying offers): $17.7 million Maximum possible cap space: $6.6 million Keep Wiggins:
LeBron James: $21.6 million Kyrie Irving: $15.9 million Andrew Wiggins: $4.8 million Anthony Bennett/Tristian Thompson/Dion Waiters (team options/qualifying offers): $17.7 million Maximum possible cap space: $19.7 million Cleveland has the ability to create maximum cap room next summer. It'd be tricky They would have to trade/decline to pick up options on Bennett, Thompson, and Waiters, but they can do it.
At that point their options are open.
Marc Gasol and LaMarcus Aldridge will be a free agents — maybe they think one of those guys will be a better fit than the offensive-minded Love. Even if they don't, there's an off-chance that they can sign Love as a free agent in the summer of 2015.
If the Cavs don't want to go the free agency route, they can re-sign all their young guys and try to build a championship-caliber team organically.
By that time they'll have a better idea of what type of players Wiggins and Bennett will become, and will be able to make a better-informed decision.
It's also not a certainty that Love immediately makes Cleveland the best team in the NBA. He and Kyrie Irving are both below-average defenders. To get some rim protection on the floor, you'd probably have to play a center next to Love, meaning you have to shift LeBron to small forward and lose the inherent advantage that playing LeBron as a stretch-4 gives you.
The Cavaliers have a roster right now that can be shaped in any number of ways. Pulling the trigger on a Love trade limits your options to one — namely, trying to surround LeBron-Love-Kyrie with enough veterans and role players to win a title.
LeBron, Irving, and Love are a championship contender this year and for as long as LeBron is good.
LeBron, Irving, and Wiggins are possibly a championship contender two years from now and for as long as LeBron is good.
You take the guarantee every time. The Cavs can fit the pieces around them, they just have to do a better job than the Heat did. They already have Varejao, Waiters, Miller, Thompson, and Jones along with what would be a big three. That is better than whatever the Heat have ever had.
Flip Saunders just might be dumb enough to believe the Warriors offer of Thompson, Lee, and Barnes is better than a Cavs offer of Wiggins, Bennett, and picks. He hired himself to coach and needs to win now. Thompson and Lee help him do that more than the Cavs offer.
The Cavs have always gone all-in since Lebron was here. It's why we were always stuck with crappy rosters and no flexibility.
I'm torn as well. The biggest worry for me is that Wiggins for Love sort of opens up issues we had before. Sure we get a top 5 player, but we get Dion back at the SG position. So now we have a back-court that's terrible at defense, and both need to have the ball in their hands to do something ... and that's without Lebron. Then we're adding in another sub-par defender in Love with no true center on the roster to pair next to him. At least with Can-bron, you're getting perimeter defense and someone who's probably going to work much better in the offense with Irving and Lebron next to him.
I can see both sides of this, man i hate to give up Wiggins but Cleveland teams have been playing for tomorrow for years.
Kind of tired of being "two years away"...
it's time we went all in
JC... well kinda.
There is plenty of folks that are feeling the same way as you. I can't blame them for that. But we have to keep in mind, having Love doesn't guarantee us a ring either. Perhaps a better chance, that's it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I wonder if the fans indecisiveness is reflective of the Cav's front office? If that is the case, I say don't make an emotional decision, let cooler heads prevail.
If I had to guess, Kevin Love starts the season in minny.
The more this is dragging out, the more I'm thinking we should call saunders bluff..no way does GS give up thompson for a rental. If I'm the cavs, i try to work a 3 team deal so you can retain flexibility and maybe you get Love for Bennett and picks. I'd be hesistant about giving up both wiggins and bennett and picks..Saunders has ZERO leverage here..I think thats why everyone is hesitant to mortgage the future for a player who has already said he's not resigning. Just have to wait it out. I'd say heres Thompson and 2 first..take it or leave it.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Everyone says that we need guys with playoff experience, and that's why we are adding guys from Lebron's past .......
Does Love give us that? Not really. He's never been on a playoff team.
I think that I am of the mind that I would rather keep Wiggins, (and the rest of our roster intact) and maybe take a run at Gasol or Aldridge, as noted above. We could then relinquish our rights to Waiters and Thompson next year, and use that $10 million non guaranteed deal to make a max offer to a guy who might be an even better fit for this team. Imagine adding Gasol or Aldridge to Lebron, Irving, and Wiggins.
Man this has to be extremely hard for the front office.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
CLEVELAND, Ohio – We don't really know the first thing about Andrew Wiggins (how NBA ready is he?). Or the second thing about Kevin Love (how playoff clutch is he?).
All questions are not created equal, though. You'd take what you don't know for absolute certainty about Love over the blank slate that is Wiggins. Today, tomorrow, October, November and, possibly at the trade deadline, too.
LeBron James, after all, will be 30 in December. Unless 1964 feels like yesterday to you, winning sometime soon should be the priority.
The best question of all, though, is why rush into a deal that costs you Wiggins in July? Why not wait and see what you have, how it fits, whether there is even the sliver of Scottie Pippen to Michael Jordan in the 19-year-old Wiggins.
(Disclaimer: Golden State could force the Cavs' hand, but otherwise time is on their side.)
The Cavaliers are resistant to putting Wiggins in a deal for reasons obvious to anyone who has watched five minutes of the summer league. (And also because this is Negotiations 101.) So up the ante now? Why?
You've heard of buyer's lust? It's best to let trader's lust cool, too.
In his Sports Illustrated essay, James addressed the difference between the Heat in 2010 and the Cavaliers in 2014.
"I want to win next year but I'm realistic," he (or Lee Jenkins) wrote. "It will be a long process, much longer than it was in 2010. My patience will get tested. I know that."
Guessing that his patience isn't already exhausted two weeks later, there is no reason to part with Wiggins today.
CLEVELAND, Ohio – We don't really know the first thing about Andrew Wiggins (how NBA ready is he?). Or the second thing about Kevin Love (how playoff clutch is he?).
All questions are not created equal, though. You'd take what you don't know for absolute certainty about Love over the blank slate that is Wiggins. Today, tomorrow, October, November and, possibly at the trade deadline, too.
LeBron James, after all, will be 30 in December. Unless 1964 feels like yesterday to you, winning sometime soon should be the priority.
The best question of all, though, is why rush into a deal that costs you Wiggins in July? Why not wait and see what you have, how it fits, whether there is even the sliver of Scottie Pippen to Michael Jordan in the 19-year-old Wiggins.
(Disclaimer: Golden State could force the Cavs' hand, but otherwise time is on their side.)
The Cavaliers are resistant to putting Wiggins in a deal for reasons obvious to anyone who has watched five minutes of the summer league. (And also because this is Negotiations 101.) So up the ante now? Why?
You've heard of buyer's lust? It's best to let trader's lust cool, too.
In his Sports Illustrated essay, James addressed the difference between the Heat in 2010 and the Cavaliers in 2014.
"I want to win next year but I'm realistic," he (or Lee Jenkins) wrote. "It will be a long process, much longer than it was in 2010. My patience will get tested. I know that."
Guessing that his patience isn't already exhausted two weeks later, there is no reason to part with Wiggins today.
James is such a physical freak he no doubt can prolong his prime, but for how long? If he has five great years left, it's incumbent on the Cavs to surround him with a team that can win a title soon. Love can help them do it sooner than Wiggins.
July is too early to decide this game of chicken. Unless Golden State blinks and offers Thompson in a deal.
If the Cavs conclude the only way to obtain Love is to give up Wiggins, then give up Wiggins. But it's hard to imagine Minnesota's leverage growing.
The Cavs really can't lose by acquiring Love or keeping Wiggins. They can just win sooner than later.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: If the Cavs conclude the only way to obtain Love is to give up Wiggins, then give up Wiggins. But it's hard to imagine Minnesota's leverage growing.
Ding ding ding.
I just saw espn say Minnesota denied this offer, if true I'm glad.
Quote: If LeBron says get Love, you get Love. LeBron is the owner, GM, and coach of the Cavs. What he says goes.
Yeah when Lebron was with The Cavs we went and got many guys he wanted, like Larry Hughes. Then when things were a mess Lebron pointed to that as a reason to bolt.
Lebron is NOT the GM.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Quote: If LeBron says get Love, you get Love. LeBron is the owner, GM, and coach of the Cavs. What he says goes.
Yeah when Lebron was with The Cavs we went and got many guys he wanted, like Larry Hughes. Then when things were a mess Lebron pointed to that as a reason to bolt.
Lebron is NOT the GM.
And I think that Lebron is smart enough to listen if the GM lays out a solid counter-argument for or against certain players and/or trades. I think that if Griffin laid out a game-plan where they wait things out in working on a deal, but keep Wiggins out of it, because Wiggins can help Lebron as he doesn't need the ball, and that he can make it so that Lebron doesn't have to be on the court every minute of every game, then I think that he would listen.
I mean, if Lebron went to management and said "I really meant what I said about Napier, and I think that we should trade Wiggins and Irving for him", I guarantee that wouldn't go very far. If a "Lebron edict" backfires, it isn't Lebron who would get fired. Sure management has to take his ideas seriously, but he also has to be wiling to listen to arguments against, and I think that he would.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
By Dan Labbe, Northeast Ohio Media Group on July 18, 2014 at 5:17 PM, updated July 18, 2014 at 5:25 PM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Take a deep breath Cavs fans. You could be in for another long weekend.
ESPN's Chris Broussard is reporting that the Cavaliers and Timberwolves have "discussed a blockbuster trade" for forward Kevin Love centered around this year's top pick in the draft, Andrew Wiggins, and last year's top pick, Anthony Bennett. Additionally, according to Broussard, "One source said the Cavs are also willing to give up a first-round draft pick for next season. Any other players involved in the talks are not known."
Broussard also reports that the deal was close to happening, according to his sources, but the Timberwolves want "more than the Cavaliers are currently offering.
The Cavaliers have been linked often to Love this offseason, first as a way of luring LeBron James back to Cleveland and now as a way to help James win sooner rather than later. Adrian Wojnarowski reported yesterday that James has reached out to Love.
Love, who turns 26 in September, averaged 26.1 points and 12.1 rebounds for Minnesota last season. He played in 77 games after playing in just 18 the season prior. For his career, the 6-10 Love has averaged 19.2 points and 12.2 rebounds while shooting 36% from three-point range.
Quote: If LeBron says get Love, you get Love. LeBron is the owner, GM, and coach of the Cavs. What he says goes.
Yeah when Lebron was with The Cavs we went and got many guys he wanted, like Larry Hughes. Then when things were a mess Lebron pointed to that as a reason to bolt.
Lebron is NOT the GM.
You're right, he's not. The GM just has to run everything by him to make sure it is okay. He's the owner.
We have s many options next year that it's ridiculous.
We have Haywood's non guaranteed $10 million deal. (which I keep bringing up, but it is an incredibly useful chip, because we can trade for a contract up to $10 million in value without having to clear space)
We also have team options on Waiters and Thompson that total almost $14 million.and could trade Bennett i we needed to. We can create all kinds of room to add a max player.
We will need a rim protector, and maybe we can't get that guy this year. Because of this, I don't want to give up all of our assets in pursuit of just one player.Imagine if we could get Love, even if it's next year, without having to give up Wiggins. We then use one of our 1st round picks on a solid defensive Center .... even one with no offensive skills at all.Then we sign Love as a free agent. We can create almost $14 million in cap space just by not picking up the team options on Waiters and Thompson. So, we could have talent, cap space, and assets.
There is definitely a risk involved in waiting ...... but there is a huge upside as well. We lose out on having Love this year ...... but we gain a lot if we can add him next year instead. I think that we can build a MUCH better team by waiting for Love, or at least by not giving into insane trade demands.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I can't seem to recall a situation in the past like this one. Where Minnesotta is likely to walk away with a tremendous amount of talent, for a player who will be leaving them at the end of the season anyway. Best case scenario is minny still has love close to the trade deadline, we trade for him without giving up love.
I mean the cavs have more leverage in this situation right? Every day that goes by minny loses more leverage. At least that's the way I see it.
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