Quote: I can't seem to recall a situation in the past like this one.
Carmelo to the Knicks, Howard to anywhere he was rumored to go.
Quote: I mean the cavs have more leverage in this situation right? Every day that goes by minny loses more leverage. At least that's the way I see it.
Minnesota has leverage. They have a player that two teams want and the player is willing to sign with both teams. They also think that they can play well and convince Love to stay (they are delusional).
Flip Saunders somehow got all this power and he is going to lose it if he blows this trade. The easiest thing to do is to hold onto Love.
I was reading about "salacious rumors" involving the Pacers, and the effect it had on certain players (Hibbert, George), and the negative effects on the team, overall. But I never found out what the gist of the rumors were. (Someone messing with another player's wife?)
Snippet from the article: (they're saying we should keep Wiggins till the trade deadline)
Quote: Best-case scenario: Wiggins proves to be untouchable and Bennett shows signs of becoming a late bloomer/belated keeper, followed by Flip begrudgingly settling for a February deal of Love for Bennett, Waiters, two unprotected first-round picks (including Miami’s first-rounder that’s unprotected in 2017) and one pick swap over the next five years … a deal that, by the way, is still better than any other offer they’ll get. Yes, including the right to overpay David Lee and eventually overpay Klay Thompson.
Worst-case scenario: Wiggins suffers enough growing pains that you no longer feel fearful or guilty about flipping him for Love in February … which means Cleveland would be trotting out one of the seven best basketball players of all time and one of the league’s 12 best players as his sidekick.
Quote: George was sexting a person and that person leaked the pictures. George might've been "catfished."
It was something more wilder than that. He was, like, sexting some "stripper" and it just turned out to be a man with a nice butt or something along those lines. Then Roy Hibbert found Paul George sleeping with his wife/girlfriend/fiance (depending on the source). Then the teams chose sides over that and everything went to hell.
That is, if you believe internet rumors.
Edit: Got my internet rumors confused. Paul George also knocked up a stripper this year and wasn't catfished by a stripper, but he was catfished by a gay man, again, supposedly.
By The Sports Xchange July 18, 2014 3:28 PM The SportsXchange
The Cleveland Cavaliers are offering No. 1 overall draft pick Andrew Wiggins and 2013 top pick Anthony Bennett to acquire All-Star power forward Kevin Love from the Minnesota Timberwolves, ESPN reported Friday night.
The Cavaliers had been reluctant to trade Wiggins but reportedly have recently become open to it. Bennett also is included in the talks, and the Cavs are open to offering a 2015 first-round pick, according to ESPN.
Cleveland and Minnesota have been in trade talks since the Cavaliers signed superstar forward LeBron James a week ago.
Yahoo Sports reported that James had contacted Love since the Cavaliers decided to include Wiggins in a possible deal. However, new Cavaliers coach David Blatt continues to state that the team will not trade Wiggins.
"That's why they call them rumors," Blatt said after losing to the Houston Rockets in their final Las Vegas Summer League game on Thursday night. "Sooner or later, in one's career, you're going have to deal with it. So if he has to deal with it now, then so be it. It's the summer league. He's learning everything as he goes along."
Wiggins had 21 points and five rebounds in the 96-90 loss. A team official said Wiggins was not available to the media because of a "league obligation." He was signing autographs after the game. "I don't talk to him about any of that stuff, because, for me, it doesn't mean anything," Blatt said. "At least not right now. You know, that's the beauty of these games: There's always something to talk about."
The Cavaliers are in negotiations with Wiggins' representatives to sign the 19-year-old. If the team signs Wiggins, it has to wait 30 days before trading him.
The Timberwolves are also in talks with the Golden State Warriors about a trade involving Love. The Warriors have offered All-Star forward David Lee and forward Harrison Barnes, but they have been unwilling to include shooting guard Klay Thompson.
Love, who is a three-time All-Star, will become a free agent after next season and has told the Timberwolves he will not re-sign with them.
Love is reportedly interested in signing a long-term deal with the Cavaliers to play alongside James.
If Minnesota deals Love to Cleveland without getting Wiggins back at this stage of the game, Saunders should be fired immediately.
Let's all remember that most of these reports are stemming from Broussard and some guy on Twitter with no credentials or body of work.
The Cavs have done a great job of being very tight-lipped this offseason, and every story being reported is favorable to Minnesota in terms of negotiation.
Not saying it's not happening, but I haven't read anything that convinces me anything is imminent.
The thing with having an expiring star who isn't returning is maximizing value. Deal too soon, and you risk foregoing a bidding war. Wait too long, and your leverage can crumble.
But at the end of the day, Saunders is on thin ice, and he can dangle his biggest chip until February.
He's got to get something back to make a playoff push. If I'm him, I favor Klay Thompson. Wiggins is the better asset long-term, but Saunders can't afford long-term thinking if he values his job.
Quote: If Minnesota deals Love to Cleveland without getting Wiggins back at this stage of the game, Saunders should be fired immediately.
Let's all remember that most of these reports are stemming from Broussard and some guy on Twitter with no credentials or body of work.
I'm thinking that this is Saunders himself leaking the rumors, trying to get Golden State to panic and throw Klay Thompson into the offer. Like you said, most of the "rumors" have been ridiculously in favor of Minnesota, so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it's them leaking whatever trying to drive up any sort of bidding war. Because, also like you said, the only way Minnesota can win from this is to get a bidding war going as far away from the trading deadline as possible.
Not sure if you read Simmons' article on this, but he has some great points as well. Flip's only hope is that Love stays on the team and they miraculously end up as a 4 or 5 seed and do some damage in the playoffs. So unless someone offers up something stupid for Love right now, he's going to ride that chance as long as he can.
The WORST thing that could possibly happen is that Love carries them to the 2nd round of the playoffs and Wiggins flops in Bennett-like fashion. And even in THAT long-shot case, Love still probably leaves in free agency. Then we could offer them a sign-and-trade of draft picks and their option of whichever young guys they want, and they'll still probably take it over watching Love sign with someone with full cap space.
The more likely scenario is that come February, Minny is on the outside of the West playoff race looking in. (Like they usually are) Nobody else will be willing to blow up their playoff roster for a couple month rental, and we can offer just about whatever we want for Love. By then we'll also know how untouchable Wiggins is, and possibly drum up the value of guys like Dion, Tristan and Bennett after a few months of playing with Lebron.
Again though ... Love can decide where he's going by making statements as to whether or not he will (definitively) re-sign with a specific team or not.
I would think that the West would be a harder row to hoe no matter what team would try to get Love.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Didnt't see this posted so it seems that love rumour is just a rumour. ____
Report: Cavaliers close to signing No. 1 overall pick Andrew Wiggins
ESPN reports that the Cleveland Cavaliers are closing in on signing their No. 1 overall pick Andrew Wiggins. That's a pretty pedestrian move, but what's interesting is the impact it could have on the newest NBA offseason drama: the potential for a Kevin Love trade to Cleveland.
Quote:
The Cleveland Cavaliers are planning to sign No. 1 overall draft pick Andrew Wiggins to a contract in the coming week, according to sources close to the process.
Sources told ESPN.com that the Cavaliers' delay in signing the former Kansas star has nothing to do with the prospect of Wiggins being dealt to the Minnesota Timberwolves as part of Cleveland's ongoing trade discussions for Kevin Love.
The Cavaliers, sources say, are merely exploring options for using their estimated $1.4 million in remaining cap space before signing Wiggins to a contract that will pay him in the neighborhood of $5.5 million as a rookie.
Once Wiggins signs, though, league rules stipulate that the Cavs must wait 30 days before trading him.
via Cleveland Cavaliers to sign Andrew Wiggins this week - ESPN.
The Cavaliers have been dancing with the Wolves since landing the No. 1 pick in May's lottery, resisting the urge to trade the pick and later Wiggins after the selection. But last week word surfaced they have changed their minds and are considering sending Wiggins in a package for the Timberwolves star.
Having to wait 30 days wouldn't mean that the deal is precluded from happening. They can work throughout the period to reach a deal, or just agree to one and wait 30 days.
But without it being able to be made official, there is the risk of another team, be it Golden State, Boston or some sleeper team, of coming in with an offer to bowl over the Wolves and acquire Love. It does mean the situation remains fluid and if they go though with it, to a degree it's a dare-you move by the Wolves. web page
No offense to anyone, but I can't believe this is even a debate. You trade Wiggens and Bennet for Love in a heartbeat.
Some of the "what ifs" posed by the reporters were ridiculous. Are they trying to say there aren't any risks by keeping Wiggens and not getting Love? Seriously? There are many, many more risks and what ifs.
James, Love, Irving, Waiters, and even Andy would be great in the Princeton offense. Love would be huge in that offense, especially when LeBron has the ball. You need guys who can extend the floor. Wiggens and Bennett can't do that. Furthermore, neither guy has done a thing at the NBA level.
There are many more reasons, but for right now, I will leave it as a no-brainer.
I agree 100% You take the proven player...especially if that proven player is a top 5 player in the game. Sure both Wiggins and bennett may be great players in 5 years...but its not like we are trading them for unknown..ala harper for ferry. We know we are getting a top player not yet in his prime..
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
please realize that Love is likely to not sign an extension as part of any trade package. he loses millions (due to expected major increases in salary cap) if he signs his extension early.
so, you would be giving up all the assets from the Cavs for a player who may just walk away in a few months. that adds significant risk to the deal.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Cavaliers are closing in on a contract with first overall pick Andrew Wiggins, according to a report from ESPN.
Wiggins' name has been linked to trade rumors since arriving in Cleveland. The speculation focuses on Wiggins being the centerpiece of a deal that would bring Minnesota's Kevin Love to the Cavs. Other pieces would be in the package going to the Timberwolves as well, but Wiggins is reportedly the player the Wolves covet.
Many people felt contract talks were being delayed because the Cavs were planning to deal the promising youngster. However, ESPN reports the Cavs have been trying to maintain cap flexibility while attempting to make decisions on other free agents before getting something done with Wiggins.
By signing his rookie contract, it doesn't completely rule out a trade between the Cavs and Timberwolves involving Wiggins, but per league rules, the Cavs wouldn't be able to officially trade him for 30 days, if they decide that's the best way to proceed.
The danger in that is one of the other teams interested in Love can swoop in during the 30 days and offer a package that Minnesota won't be able to refuse.
The speculation will continue, and now that the biggest dominoes have fallen in free agency, Love getting traded this off-season will be the ongoing storyline. The Cavs will likely stay at the center of those talks.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Are they trying to say there aren't any risks by keeping Wiggens and not getting Love? Seriously? There are many, many more risks and what ifs.
Like what? We keep Wiggins and he turns out to be a so-so starter?... then we just trade him in February when Minnesota is begging for trade offers before Love leaves. Why do we have to do this deal now? The longer the wait, the more leverage we get ... and the more we learn about Wiggins and Bennett's potential.
And everyone looks at this from an offensive perspective. The two things that worry me about Love is his defense and his health. Everyone says he's a "Top 5" player, but how is that possible when he can't even crack the top 100 defensive players? With this trade, we'd have atrocious guard defense with Irving and Dion and even worse defense in the middle with Love at the 4 and Andy at the 5. (Andy is much more suited to guard 4's) You don't think San Antonio would carve up that team?
Plus there's the Love and Irving health issue ... two guys who both have a bit of injury history. You really want to bank on both of them staying healthy through out the year and playoffs? Don't get me wrong, I really want KL on this team ... but you want to gut all our assets in the process? Especially when we don't NEED to right now? Sure we could go all in right now just to get a solidified core of Love/Lebron/Irving and spare parts ... but what happens come June when we have a gimpy Love/Irving, San Antonio just tore through a lousy defensive team for a title, we have no cap room, no trade chips, and Lebron is looking at an opt-out situation for the off-season?
But during those 30 days, the teams can agree on principle to a trade and then send in the paperwork when it's available.
I view this and the statements from the Wolves owner about maybe keeping him for the full year just your basic tactics in negotiations. They know the Cavs/Lebron want KL but the Cavs also know we'll probably be their best offer before he walks for nothing.
I still think Minnesota has the leverage (as they have had all along). The don't have to trade him, they can wait for the best offer, and now they know the Cavs need/want him, they can hold out for more. But ultimately, I think a deal gets done with Wiggins-Bennett-next years 1st (maybe an additional 2nd).
Like others have said, if Lebron wants KL, get him.
As for the extension KL could sign, who knows. Is it the additional years like CP3 did? Is it a long term sign-and-trade? Don't know. I would have to figure the Cavs would want at least 3-4 years on an extension to make the trade to equal the time Wiggins might be here (who could leave aftger 4 years too).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
Don't forget that we also have to somehow add another 2-3 bigs to this team.
Next year we'll be able to drop the option on Dion and/or Tristan, and drop Andy ...... but Love would eat up most of that with a new contract. If we have to give up our 1st round picks, and Haywood's expiring non guaranteed deal that we can use in an unbalanced trade next year, then what assets do we have left to improve the team. If we trade Wiggins but keep Dion, and add Love with a mex deal, then we won't have any room or assets left to improve the center spot at all, and we will be forced to re-sign Dion, whether he is a great fit or not.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I still think Minnesota has the leverage (as they have had all along). The don't have to trade him, they can wait for the best offer, and now they know the Cavs need/want him, they can hold out for more.
No they don't ... they have a player that's refusing to re-sign and is going to walk for nothing in 1 year. He's also said he doesn't plan to sign an extension with any team that trades for him (bar us). Nobody is going to be willing to trade anything for him unless he agrees to an extension, so that leaves us as their only trading partners. Why are we bidding against ourselves?? Because we can't be patient enough to wait a couple of months? Heck, we could start Lebron and his high school buddies right now and probably get an 8th seed in the East ... why not just wait until the trade deadline when Minnesota is desperate to make a deal? We don't need him ASAP!
Quote: I still think Minnesota has the leverage (as they have had all along). The don't have to trade him, they can wait for the best offer, and now they know the Cavs need/want him, they can hold out for more.
No they don't ... they have a player that's refusing to re-sign and is going to walk for nothing in 1 year. He's also said he doesn't plan to sign an extension with any team that trades for him (bar us). Nobody is going to be willing to trade anything for him unless he agrees to an extension, so that leaves us as their only trading partners. Why are we bidding against ourselves?? Because we can't be patient enough to wait a couple of months? Heck, we could start Lebron and his high school buddies right now and probably get an 8th seed in the East ... why not just wait until the trade deadline when Minnesota is desperate to make a deal? We don't need him ASAP!
The report was that KL would sign an extension with us, he hasn't ruled out every other team. There's a reason GS started talking with Min last week, he would be willing to sign there too. And let's not forget, he was open about going to Boston too and they have young pieces and tons of picks. The Cavs aren't the only suitor and KL is more than willing to sign long term with them too.
Also, like I said, if the Wolves know Lebron wants KL and the Cavs want him too, that's your leverage. I would only be guessing, but they want KL now so they can all start playing with each other and start the season together. I doubt they want to risk adding him a week before the trade deadline just to wait until the leverage swings back their way. Plus, what happens if Wiggins struggles, Bennett gains the weight back, or somebody on either side gets hurt?
I'm not sure where you think the Cavs have the leverage. Heck, they said they didn't want to offer Wiggins and the reports said that's changed. Minnesota supposedly responded to the Wiggins+Bennett+2015 1st rounder and said they wanted more....if true, that sounds like they have the leverage.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
Quote: The report was that KL would sign an extension with us, he hasn't ruled out every other team. There's a reason GS started talking with Min last week, he would be willing to sign there too. And let's not forget, he was open about going to Boston too and they have young pieces and tons of picks. The Cavs aren't the only suitor and KL is more than willing to sign long term with them too.
The ONLY team he said he'd sign an extension with is the Cavs with Lebron. He has been extremely non-committal about signing with anyone else. The things he said about Boston were more in regards to signing with them as a free-agent in 2015. I doubt he wants to lock himself into a long term contract with a team that just gave away a bunch of their core assets in a trade with Minny, when he can just go there as a free agent next year. The same applies to GState. He's not going to commit to them long term unless he knows they are set up to be a perennial contender.
Quote: Also, like I said, if the Wolves know Lebron wants KL and the Cavs want him too, that's your leverage.
That's the only leverage they're banking on ... and it's a complete rumor. So we're going to mortgage the farm and bid against ourselves because Lebron can't wait a few months? Can we not learn from our mistakes? Part of the reason we had "crappy" teams around Lebron before is because we always had to go "all-in" at the worst times possible. Oh, we need to improve our team NOW in free-agency?? Okay lets sign Larry Hughes to a max deal, give Z $13 million a year, and give big contracts to Donyell Marshall and Damon Jones.
Quote: I'm not sure where you think the Cavs have the leverage. Heck, they said they didn't want to offer Wiggins and the reports said that's changed. Minnesota supposedly responded to the Wiggins+Bennett+2015 1st rounder and said they wanted more....if true, that sounds like they have the leverage.
My guess is that Flip is the one releasing these trade offer rumors because they're trying to goad Golden State into offering Klay Thompson. Another report came out today that Minnesota would prefer Klay over Wiggins (which is also a bit ridiculous) ... but it just seems like Flip is doing everything he can to drum up a bidding war before the season starts. It's just about the only thing that can save him in this situation, because if the reality is that Lebron doesn't HAVE to have K-Love right this instant, Golden State doesn't want to give up Klay, and Love has no intention in signing an extension with anybody other than Cleveland ... then Minnesota has ZERO leverage in any trade. The offers they'll get won't get any better, and he'll be forced to trade him for Waiters-Bennett-like peanuts. His only hope is to get some sort of bidding war going right now.
Quote: One of the greatest sports calls of all time:
"Lebron James, with no regard for human life!"
I am so glad that he chose to come back home.
My favorite is his dunk on Rasheed. It's so underrated! It essentially slammed the door on the Piston's dynasty and opened the door to the Lebron age. Detroit was looking like the powerhouse they usually were the first two games and were playing a tough game 3 in Cleveland looking to put the series out of reach. Late in the 4th, it's a tight game ... but then Lebron throws that down in the face of Rasheed, and it was like ... "You know what, we're going to win this! We have the best player in the building!" We went on to win the next 4 in a row, including that 45 point game in Auburn Hills.
If the Warriors are willing to give up David Lee and Klay Thompson, (who I have read as rumored in a possible, though unlikely deal for Love) then that would immediately trump anything the Cavaliers would trade ........ if Minnesota wants to win immediately.
They would give up Love and his 26.1/12.5/4.4 for:
Lee at 18.2/9.3/2.1
Thompson with his 18.4/3.1/2.2.
While there are monetary issues involved, that seems like a deal that would immediately improve Minnesota. Lee is signed through 2016, and Thompson could be a restricted free agent with a qualifying offer from the Warriors (Or, I believe T'Wolves, though I am not 100% sure how that process works with a traded player) of $4.2 million in 2015-2016.
I can't see any "win now" package that the Cavaliers could put together that would be a better package than that. (even with Lee's reduced shooting range) However, it has also been reported that the T'Wolves consider Lee a detriment to a trade ...... so who knows. he has to be in a Warriors trade in order to make the salaries match, and they obviously would not need Lee if they got Love. Also, there have been reports that the T'Wolves are insisting that the Warriors also take back Kevin Martin's $7 million/year deal.
So far the Warriors have been reported to want to include Barnes and lee for Love, and that doesn't fly with the T'Wolves in any way, shape, or form. I remember when people went gaga over Barnes, and were ticked off when we didn't draft him. He then had a decent, though not overwhelming rookie year, and really fell off last year.
Frankly, I don't think that any deal is imminent ..... though since I think that, there will probably be a deal today. LOL
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I can see why G-State would NOT want that trade ... you get a slight upgrade at PF at the expense of their SG. Does that really help them enough to take out the likes of OKC and San Antonio?
It also doesn't make sense for Minnesota. Dump your best player so you can battle it out for a first round-exit in the West. Woo ... yeah, lets forget building up major assets for a youth movement so they can actually do some damage in 3-4 years. Let's just go for a first-round beatdown. Then again, It probably saves Flip's job for another year, so yeah, that's probably what they're going for.
I think that Love would be a fairly substantial upgrade at PF, if for no other reason than he has far superior range compared to Lee. Neither guy is likely to make an NBA All Defense team anytime soon though.
However, they would give up a nice inside out duo, for an inside out player. I don't know if that would make a lot of sense for them. (although Love would be a high quality long term re-sign, if he would agree to a deal) I have a feeling that this deal isn't ever going to fly for the Warriors.
I want the Cavaliers to wind up, after any deal(s), with Lebron, Irving, Wiggins, the Haywood $10 million non guaranteed deal, and 1 first round pick next year. Anything else can be out on the table as far as I'm concerned. That leaves Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, 2 potential first rounders next year, and anyone else on the team available for a Love trade. Yes, I include Andy on that list. As much as Lebron likes Andy, I think that he would understand giving up Andy for Love. (Not that I expect the T'Wolves to want Andy in a trade)
JMHO, anyway. Maybe some say that I am unreasonable, and cannot trade for Love without doing more. That's fine then. I don't think that the Warriors are going to give up what the T'Wolves are demanding either. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't see a team gutting themselves for one player, even if he's a great offensive player. Further, I doubt that Love wants his future team to gut itself for him, thus lessening his future chances at a championship. As far as the Cavaliers are concerned, if they are going to carry 2 extremely sub par defensive players like Irving and Love, then they are going to have to have plus level defenders at the 2, 3, and 5. If we give up Wiggins and all of our assets to get Love, then how do we add help in the other areas?
I dunno. Maybe I am just fairly sure that we could have a "Big 3" with Lebron, Irving, and Wiggins within a short period of time. Wiggins doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time, so he should fit extremely well with Lebron, Irving, and Waiters for that matter. At worst, he seems like a perfect "glue" player for this team.
Oh well ...I don't get a vote. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Kevin Harlan really loves his job. (The Lebron call is #2 on this list)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif)
(The Lebron call is #2 on this list)