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"Love has demanded a trade before the start of next season, threatening to opt-out of his contract in July 2015 to sign elsewhere as a free agent"
Griffin will get this deal done, finally a GM with a brain.
GO BROWNS!
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But when it comes to basketball, you're in over your head with me as far as knowledge goes. I proved this to you in the NCAA thread awhile back.
LOL..........I figured that's what your post was about. You don't have a clue as to what I know about basketball and you never proved a thing.
I know about the buzz words, Top.......but, what the heck do you wanna call it? UCLA , Motion [perhaps], Flex, Triangle, etc? I had just finished reading the article that cfrs had posted. Perhaps you should have read it before you tried to look like a know-it-all.
Now, this is for you, PDR, and King.........I keep posing questions for you guys to discuss. That is talking basketball. Instead, you keep making it personal.
Oh, and Top.............this is exactly why I haven't talked much basketball in the past. You guys don't talk basketball. You talk about the headlines. Not one of you is trying to talk about how personnel fits in Blatt's offense. No one is talking about what type of roster moves would best fit in that system. If you can't do it, just admit it and move on. Otherwise, add to the conversation.
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Here is a good article that contains video [that's why I am only providing the link] that tells/shows how Blatt's offense works. It's very interesting and I can't help but think of the similarities between his offense and San Antonio's. http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2014/07/04/d...vative-offense/
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Here is another good article about Platt's offense, LeBron's influence, and how some of the players fit into Platt's offense. Please take note of the importance of floor spacing, good 3-pt shooters, size at the 4, and guys who have a high BB IQ. I really think these things are worth discussing and should help define how we look at some of the players who have been discussed in trades and FA. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/21270...valiers-offense
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That's $27.2 million ..... unless Martin and Barea are heading elsewhere?
We would give up Wiggins, (approx $6 million) Bennett, ($5.56 million) Haywood ($2.2 million) and the $3.3 million in non guaranteed deals. That's only $17 million. How does that trade work? I know that Haywood has a $10 million non guaranteed deal next year, but that can't be used against this year, can it?
Not too many people are mentioning him but I don't know how this deal happens without Tristan Thompson being traded. Maybe I'm missing something?
1. I find it hard to believe we'd start both Thompson and Love. So, that's a lot of money tied up into a starting PF and his backup, even if for one year.
2. Thompson is a restricted FA at the end of the season and could come off the books for a team looking to shed salary if they don't want to re-sign him, and if they do, they have more control over him.
3. Financially, it makes sense to move the highest paid PF on your roster for a starting PF your trading for in Kevin Love.
People mention Waiters in these deals a ton but we would need to have a starting SG and I think Waiters is more than capable starting in the NBA.
It's just my gut but I think all three-- Wiggins, Bennett, AND Thompson, will be moved. Not sure of the number of first round picks or the number of teams involved. This looks like a very complicated deal from a cap/financial POV. I think we will end up having to purge a decent number of players on our roster from 2013-2014 to make this deal work.
We better be able to get Love to sign an extension because that's a lot of players to give up if my guess is true.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 07/23/14 09:32 AM.
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Not one of you is trying to talk about how personnel fits in Blatt's offense. No one is talking about what type of roster moves would best fit in that system. If you can't do it, just admit it and move on. Otherwise, add to the conversation.
As has been pointed out to you numerous times, Blatt's offenses tend to revolve around his personnel. The players don't have to fit what he does, he does what fits around his players.
Every time that's been pointed out to you, you turn into a petulant child and whine.
But if you want to put your big boy pants on, no, you shouldn't be overly concerned about who does and doesn't dit into the Princeton offense. It's not really an issue in terms of Blatt and his players. The guy is pretty chameleon-like over his career, and the NBA isn't suited for a lot of what he's done in Euro ball. Certainly, you'll see a lot of those principles in place, but as I said before, I wouldn't look at the team through the lens of the Princeton offense.
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Please take note of the importance of floor spacing, good 3-pt shooters, size at the 4, and guys who have a high BB IQ. I really think these things are worth discussing and should help define how we look at some of the players who have been discussed in trades and FA.
I'm willing to discuss it and I appreciate the link.. but isn't every NBA offense better if it has good floor spacing, good 3-point shooters, size at the 4, and players with a high basketball IQ?
yebat' Putin
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--the last three championships featured a Big Three. None of you replied.
Who was the big 3 this year?
the 3 leading scorers? Duncan, Parker, and Belinelli?
the 3 leading scorers per game? Duncan, Parker, and Leonard?
the 3 guys that played the most minutes? Duncan, Belinelli, and Parker?
the 3 guys with the best 3-point shooting %? Belinelli, Bonner, and Mills?
The leading scorer, leading rebounder, leading assist guy? Parker, Duncan, and Parker?
There was no "Big 3" this year except in the media's fascination to create one. Ginobili is a very good player, he provided very valuable minutes off the bench, he did a lot of good things for this team... but when one of your big 3 isn't leading you in something and is only in the top 3 of one major statistical category, you can't really claim to have a "Big 3".. The Spurs were a "Big 2" and a lot of very good support in a great system.
Ginobili's rankings on the team:
Total minutes: 7th
FG %: 9th
3-Point FG %: 8th
Rebounds: 8th
Assists: 2nd
Points: 5th
yebat' Putin
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Not too many people are mentioning him but I don't know how this deal happens without Tristan Thompson being traded. Maybe I'm missing something?
Tristan is part of LRMR, which is LeBron's agency.
#gmstrong
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Now, this is for you, PDR, and King.........I keep posing questions for you guys to discuss. That is talking basketball. Instead, you keep making it personal.
When did I say anything personal about you?? I made a comment about The Princeton Offense. Now my comment didn't tend to agree with what you are saying, but that doesn't make it personal.
The Princeton Offense is a college offense designed to make up for having a slower, less athletic team. Very guard oriented, and very shooter oriented. Do you want me to break out our game film from the season before last when Princeton beat us to teach you a little about the "Princeton" offense?
KING
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The Spurs and the Heat are similar, but actually closer to being polar opposites. I know that sounds strange, but bear with me ......
The Heat had a "big 3", who were each near max level players. Each guy made roughly $20 million. The Heat carried an $80 million payroll last year, so they allocated only $20 million for everyone on the team not named Lebron, Wads, and Bosh.
The Spurs, on the other hand, also had a "big 3", but they played for far, far less. This allowed them to maintain their upper level talent, while also adding young talent to the mix.
Looking at their 2014-2015 salary structure, they have .....
Duncan, Ginobili, Parker ...... but they also have room for Bellnelli, Splitter, Mills, Leonard, Green, Diaw, Ayres, and a bunch of contracts right around $1 million. They were able to spread their talent around more than the Heat could. Their mid level talent aren't "building blocks", they can't be a foundation of a team, but they were incredibly valuable to the Spurs, and their winning the championship.
This is why I don't want to just throw away every player and asset we have to get Kevin Love. I think that a "big 3" with medium talent players is better than a "big 3" with veteran minimum level players surrounding them. The Heat gave up their 1st round draft picks for every other year ..... gave up 2nd rounders ...... dumped valuable players because of salary cap considerations, and so on. They were not able to add anything to the equation, and all they had were older players. They had no one they could grow in their system, and that really is the lesson of the Spurs. The Spurs build a team, and grew that team in their system ...... until their veterans were coaches as well as players. The Heat had 3 top players. The Spurs had a team.
I want a team. I think that this can be accomplished, even with adding Love, but only if we do not give away every asset we have.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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On the lighter side: LeBron James apologizes to Akron neighbors for circus with cupcakes - CBSSports.com http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bask...s-with-cupcakesRemember when LeBron James was in the middle of The Decision 2.0 and Ohio generally lost its mind, including when people went to his Akron house, and parked outside because there was supposed to be an announcement? This despite the fact that James wasn't actually at the house in Bath Township; he was in Las Vegas at the time. Well now that James has returned to the Cavaliers and started to repair relationships there, he's also making amends with his neighbors. This tweet made the rounds Wednesday morning, from a neighbor showing the apologetic note and a gift fromm the James family. So that's nice of him. "We know things have been hectic in the neighborhood these past few weeks and we are sorry for the chaos," the note reads. "We are so thankful to live in this wonderful community and we are so blessed to have understanding neighbors like you." "As a gesture of our gratitude and appreciation, our family wants to give you something that is meaningful to us, our foundation's cupcakes. We hope you enjoy the treat!" The family sent six "Just A Kid From Akron" Cherry Cola Cupcakes and six "Home Court Chocolate Chunk" Cupcakes. The cherry cola one may not sound good on the surface, but the flavors actually lend themselves well to a cupcake, one would think. A local confectionery, Caroline's Cupcakes, had posted on Facebook the week before James' decision that he was returning to Cleveland, so you wonder how long this whole thing was in the works. But a nice thing for James to do. He's just picking up the approval rating all over Ohio.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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FWIW The house right next door to Lebron is for sale. Not that I saw it in person or anything 
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Maybe they are allergic to cupcakes? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Every time that's been pointed out to you, you turn into a petulant child and whine.
LOL.......you are consistent, I'll give you that.
BTW---did you even bother to read the articles I posted? Probably too much work. It's much easier to make broad-sweeping character judgements, isn't it?
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Here are a few quotes from the two articles that I think are noteworthy: Quote:
Blatt played at Princeton University from 1977-1981, and his offenses have exhibited similar fundamentals that were bestowed upon Blatt in college. Necessary is floor spacing, back-door cutting and constant motion from every player on the floor. The ability to make shots is also ideal for players hoping to thrive in this philosophy.
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Players are disciplined and whip the ball around in search of a high-percentage shot. This scheme has more potential to create elite offenses than the uninspired philosophies that rely heavily on isolation and individual talent.
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Blatt’s personnel will execute instinctive off-ball/backdoor cuts or they won’t play for him.
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att’s offensive philosophy, along with its beautiful cutting and ball movement, rides on one important factor—good floor-spacing.
And good floor-spacing depends on one big thing: shooting. LeBron knows this as well as anyone—the Heat’s success depended on having three-point shooters all around him, including the center at times. The Heat’s ability to stretch the floor allowed James and others to not only attack the rim but also make plays that result in easy shots.
Unlike the Heat, the Cavs do not have that luxury. Whereas the Heat have had a top-10 three-point shooting team for three of the last four years, the Cavs have failed to even come close, ranking 18th in three-point percentage last year.
Even worse, they lost their two best three-point shooters this offseason in C.J. Miles and Spencer Hawes.
Taking all those things into consideration, and they are all linked, I think it is pretty obvious that the Cavs need to make some changes in their personnel.
I see Love as a perfect fit. I don't see Wiggens and Bennett as guys that will thrive in that offense. I see us making this deal at some point.
I think the getting Miller and Jones were good gambles. Both can shoot. If we convince Ray Allen to sign w/us, he would provide us w/another shooter and his BB intelligence would be vital.
I think Andy can be that guy in the high post [you can see him in the video] who is constantly screening and moving. He has the energy and agility to do that.
I would also love to see LeBron play there occasionally. He can make that shot. He can drive from there, and most importantly, he can find open three pt. shooters and guys who running back-door cuts.
I don't get to see the Cavs much anymore. They are hardly ever on TV down in Carolina. So, can any of you guys tell me about how some of the other personnel will fit in? I saw Kyrie play in college. I think he pounds nails too much and that will have to change. However, he should be good coming off that weave and he can hit the 3 occasionally. What about Waiters? How does he fit? Can he spot up, especially in the corners? Is he good at cutting to the basket w/out the ball? Any information on the other guys would be appreciated.
I do get the feeling that we need to change the personnel in order to be most effective. I really think what Blatt likes to do would be perfect for LeBron and Love. I think Andy would be great in that offense, as well.
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Quote:
Quote:
Every time that's been pointed out to you, you turn into a petulant child and whine.
LOL.......you are consistent, I'll give you that.
BTW---did you even bother to read the articles I posted? Probably too much work. It's much easier to make broad-sweeping character judgements, isn't it?
I'm not making any broad or sweeping judgements. I'm just pointing out words and actions. Anytime someone has disagreed with you in this thread, you've flown off the handle. At one point, you took a dig at a guy on disability for not having a job.
As far as basketball goes, you haven't done much outside of say 'But, guys, what about the Princeton offense?'
You don't seem to know much about basketball, and that coupled with your imbecile behavior in this thread has led me to tune you out. But if you're dying to 'talk basketball', what article are you referring to specifically? There isn't much related to the Cavs I haven't read lately, but show me a link and what you'd like to discuss about it.
Please refrain from pouting like a baby if my or other's responses don't mesh with what you want to hear.
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This was in one of the articles I posted, but I doubt many watched it. I think it does a pretty good job of explaining things. http://www.youtube.com/v/yO3bJB9JcTo#t=29
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Brett Poirier NBA ‏ @ BrettNBA 2h
Minnesota wants your good players and you to take their bad contracts, all for a guy they know will walk out that door
Maybe coachb is working in their front office.
It's like I said, Flip is an idiot that will be gone (hopefully for good) pretty soon.
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It's amazing that Saunders has this much power in a league where he really hasn't had much success. I guess anything is golden in comparison to KAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHN!
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chicago is offering gibson, mirotic, and mcdermott.. Flip would be an idiot to make that trade. Those 3 players are solid, but none of them will get you over the hump. They will be stuck in mediocrity for the next 5 years. Same thing that happened to Denver.
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chicago is offering gibson, mirotic, and mcdermott.. Flip would be an idiot to make that trade. Those 3 players are solid, but none of them will get you over the hump. They will be stuck in mediocrity for the next 5 years. Same thing that happened to Denver.
Agreed ... I've seen people say that this is better than Cleveland's offer. How? You trade one top player for 3 okay ones?? If Love can't get you an 8 seed, how are those 3 going to do it?
My worry is that Flip *is* and idiot and makes a dumb "win-now" trade that tries to save his job for another year, rather than a "decent" trade that actually nets him some building blocks for the team to compete down the road.
Actually, part of me is wondering if Flip is just throwing out these trade offers and pretending to be interested in order to get Cleveland to panic and make a stupid trade.
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Doesn't he own a small share on the team now?
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I think Chicago has incentive to drive up the price.
Wiggins lets you play both sides if you're Flip Saunders. You can get a guy with a ton of talent, high ceiling, etc, but won't carry you to the playoffs immediately. So you can still play the lotto game which allows him to do his job another year before coming down to coach which I think is possible.
With the Chicago trade you're trying to eliminate that year and maybe get an 8th seed, best case scenario. I do think it's real but Chicago knows Love is still likely to CLE. Why not make it tougher on your division rival?
I think the cavs need to put a offer on the table that they're comfortable with and just step away and let Minnesota decide. We aren't the ones with the ticking clock. We don't have to trade for Love. Part of me thinks that Lebron likes the idea of playing and mentoring AW. The part in his essay about the team not being ready and him realizing it's a process makes me believe that he's willing to going with this team as-is. There are pros and cons to making and not making this deal.
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Quote:
I see Love as a perfect fit. I don't see Wiggens and Bennett as guys that will thrive in that offense. I see us making this deal at some point.
You are right about Love, and half right about Wiggins and Bennett.
If we were running a straight Princeton offence(which we wont be) Wiggins does not fit well. Ideally a Princeton 2 guard is a spot up shooter.
However Bennett is a stretch 4, would be a good fit the same as Love
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I agree with you that Love is a great fit. I'm not sure Wiggins is not since he is still so young, I would like to think that Blatt could help him be a great fit in a couple years. Especially on a team with LeBron as a mentor to help show him that to be the star you don't always have to possess the ball.
My biggest concern about our offense is that Kyrie is a ball-dominant point guard. LeBron has never really played with one of those. I have little doubt that LeBron will do what is necessary to make the offense effective and multi-faceted, but I'm concerned that Kyrie is going to be happy being option #2 or even #3 if we got Love. As the saying goes, Kyrie is a POINT guard, not a pass guard.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
This was in one of the articles I posted, but I doubt many watched it. I think it does a pretty good job of explaining things.
http://www.youtube.com/v/yO3bJB9JcTo#t=29
Very nice video. Well put together.
I can Love thriving in the backside fill role knocking down a bunch of 3's but I can see Wiggins being extremely dangerous on those backdoor cuts with his quickness and athleticism. Really with that there was some way that we could get Love and keep Wiggins.
Doubt Bennett, TT, waiters and a ton of expiring contracts and two 1st next year get the job but that would be sweet.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I believe its critical they get love.. Who knows how many chances we will get to get a player of his caliber. Not saying we should gut our team, but this is big opportunity for the franchise..
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Yeah, I am worried about how Kyrie is going to buy into this. He has the talent to do so, but I just wonder if he has the right mentality. If anyone can convince him to change, it would have to be LeBron. Let's hope.
I do think [and Jester this is towards you as well as DC] that Wiggens would be dynamic when cutting to the basket, but I think it is imperative that we improve our outside shooting. Without proper spacing, this offense is a no go.
Maybe I am wrong, but it looks like we are going to make this deal at some point and I will be thankful for that.
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Sheridan is reporting that the Wolves are seriously considering Chicago's offer. Can confirm that Gibson and McBuckets are involved, but cannot confirm anyone else, including Mirotic.
He seems to be standing by this, that it isn't just posturing. Chicago wants to jump the gun, add a good player and keep one out of Cleveland, and considering the work Sheridan has done the last month, I think you've gotta believe him.
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Man, that would suck!
I just looked up that report. Not sure how Chicago's offer is better than Cleveland's? I think that Minnesota might be trying to get Cleveland to increase its offer.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 07/23/14 07:33 PM.
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Quote:
Man, that would suck!
I just looked up that report. Not sure how Chicago's offer is better than Cleveland's? I think that Minnesota might be trying to get Cleveland to increase its offer.
Sheridan says because they could get 3 starters in return.
I say that quality trumps quantity. I think Minnesota could use another high lotto pick to build anyway, which only having Wiggins and Rubio would set you up for.
Plus a lot of these reports say that Saunders loves Wiggins.
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I think Love would be a great addition but who not named LeBron or Varejao is going to play defense on this team? Wiggins was purported to be our 3rd best defender the day he steps on the court. Love is supposedly pretty non-existent on D. And his offense is BOUND to come down as he has to share the ball much more with LBJ and Irving. Our big 3 will be good for 50 - 60 points a night and with bench that'll win us a bunch of games and get us in the playoffs but not much further. We'll be very lopsided offense to defense. The more I think about it Love seems like like an enormous gamble that gets us to something like a game 5 or 6 exit in the finals and little wiggle room for future movement. That long, slim and trim contract of Wiggens is itself a future strategic advantage. I understand the win now mentality but we can't tie our own hands. I'd prefer Love not be in our division if he goes elsewhere but I won't be mad if we don't get him. Wiggens is going to be a super star and he's cheap for 4 years.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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Quote:
I just looked up that report. Not sure how Chicago's offer is better than Cleveland's? I think that Minnesota might be trying to get Cleveland to increase its offer.
I have no clue how they think this is better than Cleveland's offer. Isn't this pretty much the same thing as Waiters, Thompson and Bennett? Except our three would be younger and we could offer more first round picks?
I mean as down as people on Thompson and Waiters, they still put up some decent stats. Butler and Gibson are better defenders, but they're also several years more experienced (older) and played for a much better coach. I plugged this trade into the Trade Machine to see what Hollinger's PER would come out to and it's basically even in win total:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qzz3kab
Throw in Bennett and multiple first round picks and THAT almost seems like a better trade ... how is that better than any trade involving Wiggins?
To me this sounds more like Chicago and Minnesota throwing out smoke so that Cleveland will overpay for Love.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Love is supposedly pretty non-existent on D.
While Love will never be confused with any member of the NBA all-defensive team his defense is far from non-existent. I think that he is an average NBA defender.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Love is supposedly pretty non-existent on D.
While Love will never be confused with any member of the NBA all-defensive team his defense is far from non-existent. I think that he is an average NBA defender.
I would put him below average, especially at the rim. Considering his size, at 6'10" and 243#, combined with his athletic ability, his defense at the rim stunk. I read an article within the last day or so, one actually in favor of trading for Love, that pointed out that he ranked below Tristan Thompson in that aspect of defense. Let me see if I can find it:
Here we go:
Love is not a shot blocker and stats back that up. According to NBA.com's stats, opponents shot a whopping 57.4 percent on attempts at the rim when being defended by Love. That was the fourth-worst mark in the NBA, below Thaddeus Young, Tristan Thompson and Zaza Pachulia.
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/07/separating_fact_from_fiction_w.html
Despite that, I think that most people want to add Love ..... only the price is being debated.
My major concern is that now Love supposedly wants to follow the Lebron path to a massive max deal, and that takes a ton of trust between the player and team. I think that Lebron is one thing. After reading his essay, there is no way he walks away from Cleveland in 1 or 2 years. However, if Love decides that he doesn't like being the 2nd or 3rd option, there is nothing that would stop him from following the Carlos Boozer path out of town. "Trust me." "Ha Ha ...Suckers!"
I doubt that this is very likely at all, but if we are giving up massive amounts of assets, then I want certainty, not probability .... even a strong probability. I never thought that Boozer would walk on the Cavaliers after being so thankful for them doing him a favor they didn't have to, so he could earn more money.
I still admit that I also want to see what Bennett and Wiggins look like playing alongside Lebron.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
My major concern is that now Love supposedly wants to follow the Lebron path to a massive max deal, and that takes a ton of trust between the player and team. I think that Lebron is one thing. After reading his essay, there is no way he walks away from Cleveland in 1 or 2 years. However, if Love decides that he doesn't like being the 2nd or 3rd option, there is nothing that would stop him from following the Carlos Boozer path out of town. "Trust me." "Ha Ha ...Suckers!"
I doubt that this is very likely at all, but if we are giving up massive amounts of assets, then I want certainty, not probability .... even a strong probability. I never thought that Boozer would walk on the Cavaliers after being so thankful for them doing him a favor they didn't have to, so he could earn more money.
I still admit that I also want to see what Bennett and Wiggins look like playing alongside Lebron.
+1
I'm up for going all in to get KL but only if he gives us at least 3 years, maybe I'd push for 4. If we only have a 1 year rental or then extra year extension, I'd lower my offer or pull it all together. You can't trade Wiggins potential, AB, and multiple first for 1-2 years of KL.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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I think that he is an average NBA defender.
He's an awful NBA defender.
I'm not saying he can't improve in that regard, but he's on par with Tristan Thompson in terms of being terrible.
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Dawg Talker
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The common belief down here right now is that Allen will be signing with us soon. It was even on the news tonight.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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0.00% chance of Love signing an extension with us any time before the new TV deal kicks in, unless he and his agent are really dumb.
This trade is a Love rental. You may get a verbal or a handshake, but on paper, in ink, it's a straight rental.
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