|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433 Likes: 11
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433 Likes: 11 |
Quote:
I think you come across as someone w/a giant self esteem issue who needs to lecture others about their character. Seek help.
J/C
Now for actual discussion...
Will Andy manage to stay healthy for at leas 75% of the seaon?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Still rather read this thread than BWs daily Love rumor
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Another clever poster.
Now.............for actual discussion;
That's a deep question. Hmmmm.......does anyone have a tarot card?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
OP
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
So Marc Gasol 2015 anyone?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
Now for actual discussion...
Will Andy manage to stay healthy for at leas 75% of the seaon?
Here's some scary stats ...
Through 10 seasons, Andy averages 53.4 games a year (65% of the season). His first 6 years he averaged 64.6 games (79%) and the last 4 he averaged 36.5 (44% of the season)
Through 6 seasons for K-Love, he's averaged 60.6 games a season (74%).
And for Kyrie, he's averaged 60.3 games a season through his 3 seasons (74%)
That's a big part of the reason I'm nervous about ditching all of our assets for a team that's centered completely around just Love, Irving, Andy and Lebron.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Okay............but, you aren't scared about committing to the guys who displayed terrible team chemistry last year and a rookie?
You really don't think Love fits w/this team? How does Wiggins fit? Seriously. I know people love ESPN and read articles about how athletic a guy is, but BB wise, how in the world is Wiggins a better fit than Love?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Why do you keep acting like this is a trade that's Love straight up for Wiggins?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I'm not.
I have repeatedly said that I would give up Wiggins, Bennett, and our first round pick.
Bennett gave us zero last year. Our first round pick is going to be one of the last few in the first round. Maybe the last if we get Love. It's worth it.
Look Excel...............I was messing w/PDR and some of those other guys because I think they are full of crap. I respect you. I am not messing w/you. It's okay if we disagree. I think it is clear that Love makes us a contender. He fits Blatt's offense. He would open things up for so many players. He would make LeBron happy. We have a two year window. Don't forget that. Spacing, ball movement, 3pt. shooting, size at the 4........don't forget those things.
I'm cool if you don't agree w/me. Give me reasons why not making the trade would help us win a championship. I'll listen to you. Let's debate it. You are reasonable...........thus, I will be reasonable. Is that okay?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Dude, you come across as really believing that most people value your moral opinions. I think you come across as someone w/a giant self esteem issue who needs to lecture others about their character. Seek help.
I more or less think you're a joke.
Talk basketball, dude.
You're the sideshow here, not others.
We were getting along fine here until you showed up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
You can't do just Wiggins and Bennett for Love, the Salaries don't match, you have to give up more..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
You can't do just Wiggins and Bennett for Love, the Salaries don't match, you have to give up more..
Felix and Delladova worked fine, so I imagine the non guaranteeds and Delly would too.
I also think they have like a $400k exception.
They work as principals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
Quote:
Dude, you come across as really believing that most people value your moral opinions. I think you come across as someone w/a giant self esteem issue who needs to lecture others about their character. Seek help.
I more or less think you're a joke.
Talk basketball, dude.
You're the sideshow here, not others.
We were getting along fine here until you showed up.
And I think you are an insecure person who needs to belittle others to make yourself look big.
In other words, . off.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Dude, you come across as really believing that most people value your moral opinions. I think you come across as someone w/a giant self esteem issue who needs to lecture others about their character. Seek help.
I more or less think you're a joke.
Talk basketball, dude.
You're the sideshow here, not others.
We were getting along fine here until you showed up.
And I think you are an insecure person who needs to belittle others to make yourself look big.
In other words, . off.
Vers just talkin' ball, yo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I understand that. And that is why we have been making some other trades.
Look, I know the big mouths on this forum don't want this trade to happen, but you better believe the Cavs want to make it happen and they are doing what they need to do to make it happen.
Whether that is enough or not.............I don't know. But, make no mistake..........the Cavs are working their butts off to trade for Love and that isn't going to change no matter how much the loud mouths on this thread say it isn't so.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
I'm not.
I have repeatedly said that I would give up Wiggins, Bennett, and our first round pick.
We've already reportedly offered Wiggins, Bennett, and TWO first rounders and they said "no, give us more" ... There's also talk that they want to us to take on Berea and Martin's salaries, which would mean we would have to trade about 70% of our roster just to get salaries to match.
I have no idea how well or bad Bennett or Wiggins will feature in any sort of Blatt offense. But I do know that under Mike Brown, everyone regressed terribly. Tristan put all his effort into learning to shoot right-handed and his defense suffered horribly because of it. Dion and Kyrie had major alpha dog issues and only seemed to put up their best numbers when they weren't on the floor together. Bennett was over-weight, was recovering from injury and never really got himself together until the end of the year. Wiggins we really know nothing about, except that he might be the most athletic guy to come out of the draft since Lebron himself.
We have no idea how these guys will look with a coach that knows what he's doing on offense and the best player on the planet setting them up with perfect looks. I'm really worried about selling low and buying high. These guys are ALL 23 and under and have room to grow. I have no qualms about waiting it out with a Love trade and seeing what we actually have with these young guys. Especially because the longer we wait out a Love trade, the more leverage we get. (Also the more we learn about how all these young guys will fit our team.)
What I don't want to do is PANIC and offer every possible asset we have just to get Love because he looks so good on offense. Then watch as something goes wrong with the experiment (injury/lack of defense) and we have no assets left to fix the problem. Bennett, Wiggins and picks would be a tough pill to swallow, but I would be okay with it. It's a lot of potential we could be giving up, but it makes us a lot better to win right now ... it's just no where near the slam dunk championship that some people seem to think it will be.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
There is no talking ball w/you. I tried. You couldn't hang. You are the self-appointed judge and jury of all character issues. I am out of order, judge. You don't wanna talk BB, let's smack. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Nice post. Thanks. I am kinda drunk at this point............so, forgive me if I mess up. I do have to say that I love the way you actually gave reasons. Deep breath.......let me try [dang.........finally a bb post and I am looped] Quote:
We've already reportedly offered Wiggins, Bennett, and TWO first rounders and they said "no, give us more" ... There's also talk that they want to us to take on Berea and Martin's salaries, which would mean we would have to trade about 70% of our roster just to get salaries to match.
I think we are in agreement on this one. Don't rush this deal. Make no mistake, I want to get it done.......but, don't rush into it. The offer you and I mentioned is more than fair.
Quote:
I have no idea how well or bad Bennett or Wiggins will feature in any sort of Blatt offense. But I do know that under Mike Brown, everyone regressed terribly. Tristan put all his effort into learning to shoot right-handed and his defense suffered horribly because of it. Dion and Kyrie had major alpha dog issues and only seemed to put up their best numbers when they weren't on the floor together. Bennett was over-weight, was recovering from injury and never really got himself together until the end of the year. Wiggins we really know nothing about, except that he might be the most athletic guy to come out of the draft since Lebron himself.
I would love to keep T.T. I love garbage guys. Kinda like Cedric Maxwell was for the Celtics. We don't wanna lose him.
I really don't know enough about Waiters and Kyrie's relationship to make an intelligent statement. All I know is what I have read in the papers and from you guys and it doesn't sound good. That has to be fixed. One way or the other.
I understand the love for athleticism, but I love smart, pure BB players. Look, I honestly believe, even though I have no proof of this, that Popovich took some things from Blatt. Look at the motion. Look at where guys spot up. Look at the screens, especially around the foul line. Can you imagine putting LeBron at the high post? Love in one corner. Waiters in the other, but a bit closer to the basket where he can either pick or pop? Kyrie spotting or cutting? I think it sounds very intriguing.
Quote:
What I don't want to do is PANIC and offer every possible asset we have just to get Love because he looks so good on offense. Then watch as something goes wrong with the experiment (injury/lack of defense) and we have no assets left to fix the problem. Bennett, Wiggins and picks would be a tough pill to swallow, but I would be okay with it. It's a lot of potential we could be giving up, but it makes us a lot better to win right now ... it's just no where near the slam dunk championship that some people seem to think it will be.
I understand. I really do. Your concern is valid.
I think of it like this. Love is a better fit for Blatt's offense than Wiggins and Bennett. LeBron is getting older. He has a two year contract. I say that Love gives us a chance to win soon. If we win, we keep LeBron. I think our offense would be unreal w/those guys.
Many love just athletic players. What did we do w/all our athletes under Mike Brown? I was so happy that we hired Blatt. I love the European style. Watching San Antonio this year was so fun. I love the ball movement. Why do you think they have so many foreign players on their team. They are actually one of the least athletic teams in the league. They move the ball. They get open shots. They have guys who can make the shots.
Now, one more thing.............you, and and a couple of others spoke of San Antonio's defense earlier. I am not trying to be mean, but I don't think they are that good defensively. I was watching them against OKC and they were being abused. I always root for San Antonio because they play team BB, but I was thinking..........man, they can't guard them. They ended up beating OKC and Miami because of how good their offense was.........their defense had very little to do w/it, and in fact, against OKC, they overcame their lack of defensive prowess.
Hey Excel.............we are disagreeing about this, but I hope debate is cool w/you. I think you are a very good poster and I don't want to argue w/you like I was w/those other guys. I respect you. We don't have to agree. You can counter my points and I will be cool w/it. Thanks for your post. You made me think and that is always good. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364 |
Quote:
Just forget him. He's a waste of space, but if we engage him, he only takes up more space. It is kind of funny, though.
From Blatt's Grantland interview:
Quote:
You’re known as a Princeton offense guy, but that’s only one end of the floor, and everyone I’ve talked to says it’s unfair to pigeonhole you with the Princeton stuff — that you’ve played very different styles depending on what players you have. You pressed for an entire season when you had Jeremy Pargo. Forget the Princeton offense. What are your defensive principles?
My teams have always been multifaceted and multitasking on defense — a lot of different looks, different kinds of presses, different matchups, matchup zones, trapping schemes. I don’t know that that’s gonna change all that much. Defense is the side of the floor where you adapt less and teach more.
Did you press for just that one season? Or is it something in your toolbox all the time?
It’s in the toolbox. I haven’t always used it. Sometimes we didn’t have the personnel for it. That particular year we had a tremendous lineup of guys that were athletic, and had length, and speed, and great anticipation. We pressed 40 minutes a game for the whole season.
The NBA is a pick-and-roll league. More defenses like to drop back against that play, but there are still a few that attack it high on the floor. Which style do you prefer for this team?
We’ll see. There are two schools of thought in coaching, and neither one is more right than the other. There are coaches that have their system, and they are gonna use that regardless of what the team makeup is. And there are coaches that are adaptive, and take their roster, and play according to their skill set.
I’m more from the adaptive school, with a few principles that are consistent throughout my career. But we have to see what the team looks like before I can tell you exactly how we’re gonna play.
You won’t play the full Princeton offense in Cleveland, right?
In the full Princeton, there are no plays. Well, there are plays, but there are not called plays. According to the movement of the ball, and the movement of the center, you’re gonna get into certain sets that you read according to how the defense plays you.
That’s the part of the Princeton offense you can see in my teams — the reading and the multi-option possibilities off of any play. The Princeton offense is something that takes a long time to develop. It requires a particular kind of player, and more than anything else, it requires the giving up on the part of all the players of almost everything they know.
But elements of the Princeton offense, in my mind — they are the right way to play.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/qa-cavs-coach-david-blatt-on-lebron-princeton-and-the-natural/
Great interview. Thanks for posting it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364 |
Quote:
Waste of space, acted like a child.............
You know........I recently met Pit. I told him that I doubted people would say things like that to my face. You are all so gutty on the computer.
Wow. Irony. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Cool. So now you see why Love is the right option and trading away Winston and Bennett is a smart move?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364 |
Quote:
Cool. So now you see why Love is the right option and trading away Winston and Bennett is a smart move?
I have NEVER said that Love was a bad option.
Geesh. I can really like a player, and worry about the cost to acquire him. I have read stuff up to and including trading Waiters, Bennett, Wiggins, and all 3 first round picks we have (potentially) in next year's draft.
To me, that is WAY too much to give up, even got a talented guy like Kevin Love. I like Love as a player, but we absolutely have to add defense to this team as it is currently constructed, and would trade away one the the best defenders (even though he is young) if we trade Wiggins.
I see no reason why a guy like Wiggins, who can get his own shot, especially with his step back jumper, and can drive the hoop, wouldn't fit in Blatt's offense. Is Love a great fit with Lebron? Of course. No one has debated that. However, there are as many defensive worries as offensive positives with Love. That is part of the equation.
I like adding Love .... but i am still not thrilled with trading away Wiggins. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. I think that Love could have tremendous value for this team, and I think that Wiggins could as well. My ideal would to somehow add Love while holding on to Wiggins. That would be a beautiful thing. I truly don't think that the Cavaliers want to trade Wiggins, and will do all they can to avoid doing so. Beyond his obvious physical talents, he could also give Lebron a breather without dropping the SF position into a black hole. That will become more important as Lebron gets older. He's not going to want to have to play every minute of every game, and the ability to give him a useful breather is there with Wiggins. It isn't without him. Who would we play at SF when Lebron needs a break? Bennett? I don't think that he can pull that off.
Further, and this is very important as well. Love has been somewhat injury prone in his career. So has Irving. Wiggins is a young guy who, hopefully, will be healthy and able to contribute every nght. That is also important.
I don't see it as simply "Love fits well, so we have to trade for him!". We need to carefully weigh all of the factors, and how everything and everyone involved fits on offense, defense, and with the other players on the team. Beyond their individual physical talents, do they bring other things to the table, like being able to play more than one position well, or are they reliable as far as being able to be on the court every night.
You also seem to think that Wiggins would be an awful fit with Lebron for some reason. I don't see that at all. I think that he brings athletic ability, already shows strong defensive prowess for a rokie, and has shown the ability to both drive the hoop, and nail a stel back jumper. He has really quick hands on defense. His reach helps him as a defender. I loved seeing him block Nerlens Noel in the Summer league game!
On the other hand ... He is not (yet?) a great ball handler, but he doesn't have to be with the other payers we have on the team. He needs to work on his passing. He also cannot shoot the 3 well yet. However, all young players have things they will have to work on. Wiggins is no different in that regard, but he also has talents that cannot be taught. I think of him and Lebron out on a fast break, after a Wiggins steal, and just drool.
Love brings a lot offensively. Wiggins brings a lot offensively in a different regard, and is a far superior defender, even as a rookie, I can see him defending the 1, 2, and 3 almost immediately, and doing a solid job. He also wants to be a great defensive player, That is one of his goals. I love that. I like a lot of things that Love can bring, but I also like a lot of things that Wiggins can bring to this team.
Neither guy "sucks". I think both could have a place on a championship team.Hopefully, somehow, it's Cleveland for both of them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
Many love just athletic players. What did we do w/all our athletes under Mike Brown? I was so happy that we hired Blatt. I love the European style. Watching San Antonio this year was so fun. I love the ball movement. Why do you think they have so many foreign players on their team. They are actually one of the least athletic teams in the league. They move the ball. They get open shots. They have guys who can make the shots.
Now, one more thing.............you, and and a couple of others spoke of San Antonio's defense earlier. I am not trying to be mean, but I don't think they are that good defensively. I was watching them against OKC and they were being abused. I always root for San Antonio because they play team BB, but I was thinking..........man, they can't guard them. They ended up beating OKC and Miami because of how good their offense was.........their defense had very little to do w/it, and in fact, against OKC, they overcame their lack of defensive prowess.
I think you're undervaluing what San Antonio did on defense though. This was supposed to be an unstoppable offensive troika of LBJ-Bosh-Wade and they never scored over 100 points in the series. One player in particular kept Lebron under-wraps and made Wade look pedestrian ... Kawhi Leonard. You know, the MVP of the series? And you know who Kawhi reminds me a lot of? Andrew Wiggins. In fact I've seen a lot of people say that Leonard is probably the low floor of what Wiggins will turn out to be in his NBA career. That's kind of why I'm in no rush to get rid of him for Love. I'd love to see what he might bring to the table. Meanwhile, nobody is probably going to trump our offer of Wiggins, Bennett and picks ... so I'm fine with waiting Minnesota out.
Don't mean to dismiss the rest of your post, but we've pretty much gone over most of that before. We're either in semi-agreement or are agreeing to disagree.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Good post. Very good post.
It's okay if we disagree, I just like seeing valid reasoning for points than the stupid "you don't know basketball" posts that some people use.
Look, you made a lot of valid points and I am not going to address them all now. I do want to address where you said that I don't think Wiggins would be a good fit w/LeBron. I don't recall saying that.
I think I said that LeBron has said he would like to play w/Love. I think I also said that Love would be a better fit in Blatt's offense than Wiggins.
Look YTown, it is a matter of philosophy. Some will get excited about guys running the floor and making thunderous dunks. If so, Wiggins is your guy. Me...........I like a team that is smart. They pass the ball and make open shots. Love is the guy for that offense.
I was really excited when we hired Blatt. I hated Brown's offense. It was stagnant. And as much as people want to deny this...........Miami evolved by acquiring shooters that LeBron could pass to. We have to spread the floor. Love can do that. Wiggins can't.
Not saying I am right. You made a good argument that I appreciate. Just giving you my opinion w/out all the BS.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
OP
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
I still doubt we offered Wiggins. All the reports at the time said that great players were going to Minny, but Minny didn't pull the trigger. Why is this? What offer is better than two firsts, Wiggins, TT and Bennett? Personally, I think Flip was trying to use the media to start a bidding war, but it didn't work out like that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I just don't think San Antonio is all that on defense. I would like to expound on that and say that if you look at them athletically..............LOL.......what are they?
No way can anyone tell me w/a straight face that if they didn't know the records, that San Antonio was an athletic team. Most people would rank them towards the bottom of the league.
They win because they are smart, spread the floor, knock down open threes, and are completely unselfish.
DC challenged me earlier about the big 3. He brought up stats.
Okay, if you just go by stats, he is right. But, I totally disagree w/that.
Do any of you think that the Spurs win against OKC or Miami w/out Ginobli? LOL......seriously? The guy is a stud! I mean...............a stud! He is a wizard w/and w/out the basketball. Did any of you see the pass he made from one corner to the other while he was falling out of bounds? He might have not put up the numbers, but he is a stud.He is also one of the smartest bb players I have seen in a long, long time.
I want a smart BB team. We have the coach. We have LeBron. We now need to get Love and Ray Allen. Give us those guys and let's go to war.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
I still doubt we offered Wiggins. All the reports at the time said that great players were going to Minny, but Minny didn't pull the trigger. Why is this? What offer is better than two firsts, Wiggins, TT and Bennett? Personally, I think Flip was trying to use the media to start a bidding war, but it didn't work out like that.
Part of me wonders if that's the actually the case. However with some of the maneuvering we've done, it seems like a trade is actually pretty close to being done. I just don't see Flip agreeing to a trade that doesn't involve Wiggins if he intentionally floated all these rumors trying to drive up the price. Can you see him agreeing to a Bennett/Dion/Thompson trade so soon after all these hypothetical Bulls/Warriors/Cavs & Wiggins rumors? The Minnesota fan base would be calling for his head.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Zach Lowe is the best NBA writer out there, no questions asked.
I highly recommend reading his work.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
I just don't think San Antonio is all that on defense. I would like to expound on that and say that if you look at them athletically..............LOL.......what are they?
Arguably the most cerebral core unit in the history of the NBA?
Defense isn't just 'oh, I'm going to try now'. I don't like that national analytic note. It's not true. Defense is athleticism, and how you handle fear, and what you anticipate, It's a chess game, but it's not something that just happens. Most teams lose big playoff series before they learn defense.
If you don't think the Spurs defense is fantastic, you don't know basketball.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Quote:
Zach Lowe is the best NBA writer out there, no questions asked.
I highly recommend reading his work.
Best sports writer. Period.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
I just don't think San Antonio is all that on defense.
SA was the 3rd ranked defense in the league last year. They had a dominant paint protector in Duncan, a dominant wing defender in Kawhi, and Pops system that specifically took away the corner-3's and paint, while daring teams to shoot the inefficient mid-range elbow shots.
They were not the most athletic team in the league (with guys like Diaw), but they were incredibly smart with how they utilized their defense and that more than made up for any lack of athleticism.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Zach Lowe is the best NBA writer out there, no questions asked.
I highly recommend reading his work.
Best sports writer. Period.
Agreed.
I'm excited that he'll be paying more attention to the Cavs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,041
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,041 |
Cavs sign top pick Wiggins to contract CLEVELAND (AP) -- Andrew Wiggins has an NBA home. Maybe a temporary one. The Cavaliers signed the No. 1 overall draft pick Thursday, a deal that prevents Wiggins from being traded for 30 days. Wiggins has been linked to a possible blockbuster trade with Minnesota for All-Star forward Kevin Love. But any deal now involving Wiggins can't be finalized for at least 30 days. The Cavs and Timberwolves have had talks about a trade involving Love for months, long before Cleveland selected Wiggins, the former Kansas standout, with the first pick in May's draft. Those discussions have intensified lately, and the sides can still reach an agreement on a trade but nothing can be finalized until late August. Now that Wiggins is under contract, the league's seldom-used 30-day rule is in effect. It was designed to prevent teams from circumventing salary cap rules. There have been restrictions placed on trading newly signed rookies dating back at least to the 1998-99 collective bargaining agreement. At that time, rookies were lumped in with all free agents into a rule that prevents any newly signed player from being traded for three months or before Dec. 15 of the next season -- whichever is longer. The rule was modified in the 2005 CBA, separating rookie contracts into a different category with the shorter, 30-day timeline between signing date and trade eligibility. The spirit behind the rule is that if a rookie is traded immediately after he signs, it gives the appearance that the acquiring team is the one that is in fact signing him. Cleveland's decision to sign Wiggins actually makes it easier to trade him. Before his deal, he had zero value on the salary cap but his contract -- worth $5.5 million -- could allow the Cavs to clear enough room to take on a player like Love, who is sent to earn $15.7 million next season. Minnesota has received offers from other teams, including the Chicago Bulls, who reached out to the Timberwolves this week, according to a person with knowledge of the discussions who requested anonymity because the teams were not publicly commenting on the process. With Wiggins unable to be moved by Cleveland for a month, it's possible other teams may approach the Timberwolves to make a run at Love, a double-double machine and arguably the league's top power forward. Love is entering his final year under contract in Minnesota and has said he does not intend to sign a long-term deal with the Timberwolves. Golden State has also shown interest in the 25-year-old Love. But the Warriors have refused to include guard Klay Thompson in any offer, which has been a deal-breaker for the Timberwolves. Cleveland had been reluctant to include Wiggins in a package for Love, but the team has softened its stance and may be willing to part with the 6-foot-8 forward with the 44-inch vertical leap. The Cavs are interested in bringing in Love to form a "Big 3" with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving. That trio would make the Cavs an overwhelming favorite in the Eastern Conference, and potentially put them in position to win the city's first major sports championship since 1964. Cleveland also signed rookie Joe Harris, taken with the first pick (No. 33 overall) of the second round. Harris, who played at Virginia, averaged 7.8 points in four summer league games in Las Vegas. As the Wiggins-Love situation drags on, the Cavs continue to re-shape their roster. The team is interested in signing free agent Ray Allen, who has spent the past two seasons in Miami with James. On Thursday, the agency representing Allen knocked down a report that the NBA's career 3-pointer leader was leaning toward joining the Cavaliers. Allen's agent, Jim Tanner, wrote on his Tandem Sports & Entertainment twitter account that reports Allen "intends to play for the Cavs are unfounded. He has not yet decided if he will play next season or for which team." Link
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349 |
Quote:
Alright...............explain why Wiggens/Wiggins is a better fit w/our team than Love. Please.
I have given you guys a multitude of reasons why the opposite is true. Let's hear your reasoning.
Oh.............I know you all watch a bunch of ESPN highlights and Wiggins has more dunks and you read articles about what a great athlete he is and how much potential he has, but please............tell me how he fits in our offense better than Love. Please refute all the points that I have put out there for you guys to read [even though most of you never read them.]
Do you just make things up to argue about?? Where did I ever say Klove wont be a good fit in out offense?As a matter of fact I agreed he would be, that is if we are running a pure Princeton offense.
I would also say, if we were running a pure Princeton offense Wiggins is not a prototypical 2 guard for that system.
This is all a moot point though, because we ill not be running only a Princeton offense.
I like what we have, I want to roll with it. But I alays like seeing the young guys develop
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
Defense isn't just 'oh, I'm going to try now'. I don't like that national analytic note. It's not true. Defense is athleticism, and how you handle fear, and what you anticipate, It's a chess game, but it's not something that just happens. Most teams lose big playoff series before they learn defense.
If you don't think the Spurs defense is fantastic, you don't know basketball.
LMAO...........yeah, I don't know basketball. Defense is how you handle fear............ and what you anticipate. Go play on your Play Station, Mr. Basketball. You don't have a freaking clue.
Oh, and I get the stat boy arguments, but SA is not an elite defensive team. They win w/their offense and how they control the pace of the game. They do not win by shutting teams down w/superior defense.
Just for kicks............anyone remember how good LeBron was at defense during his first few years? LOL...........it's all about athleticism, anticipation, handling fear, etc and desire has nothing to do w/it, right Mr. Basketball?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Defense isn't just 'oh, I'm going to try now'. I don't like that national analytic note. It's not true. Defense is athleticism, and how you handle fear, and what you anticipate, It's a chess game, but it's not something that just happens. Most teams lose big playoff series before they learn defense.
If you don't think the Spurs defense is fantastic, you don't know basketball.
LMAO...........yeah, I don't know basketball. Defense is how you handle fear............ and what you anticipate. Go play on your Play Station, Mr. Basketball. You don't have a freaking clue.
Oh, and I get the stat boy arguments, but SA is not an elite defensive team. They win w/their offense and how they control the pace of the game. They do not win by shutting teams down w/superior defense.
Just for kicks............anyone remember how good LeBron was at defense during his first few years? LOL...........it's all about athleticism, anticipation, handling fear, etc and desire has nothing to do w/it, right Mr. Basketball?
Vers just talking ball, yo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364 |
I think that they do both.
In the Finals, the Spurs completely fouled up Miami's floor spacing, and forced their shooters into taking contested shots, instead of allowing them to take the wide open looks they were used to taking, especially in the final 2 games. The Spurs are a very good offensive team, but that doesn't make them a bunch of bums on defense.As I recall, the Supers made defensive changes after game 2, and stopped doubling Lebron automatically, and largely only doubled him once he got into the paint. That kept the Heat completely off balance, and they really never recovered.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Yeah, they had help defenders shade LeBron and clogged up the paint.
Duncan's a shell of his former self, but he still did a nice job of altering shots and making his presence felt. Leonard was all over LeBron. Green was killing it in transition defense.
Miami couldn't even use it's small ball lineup. The previous year, they used it to run Splitter off the floor, but Pop stayed big this year, and a lot of credit goes to Diaw on that. He held his own on Wade.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I am not saying they have a terrible defense. I hope it isn't coming across that way. My point is that they are not one of those gifted athletic teams and that is how this conversation started when I was trying to point out you don't need great athletes like Wiggins to win.
Some may say that defense isn't about effort, but no one has answered this.........how good was LeBron at defense early in his career? Why has he improved so dramatically defensively? Because he is now a better athlete.
Furthermore, your offense can help your defense by controlling the pace and the flow of the game. Look at what SA did on offense in the finals. They shot an incredible 53% from the field and hit almost 47% of their 3s! That is unreal. It's hard to get into your transition game when you are constantly taking the ball out of the net. Also, it's hard to make runs when the other team is hitting shots.
San Antonio plays good defense. But, it more about them being disciplined, well-coached, intelligent, and playing w/effort than it is about them being great athletes. They really are not all that athletic. Which leads me back to I think the Cavs can be fine w/Love instead of Wiggins on defense. Now, the entire culture of the team has to change in order for that to transpire because even w/the defensive minded Mike Brown, they were not a great defensive team.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
The only reason LeBron is better at basketball is because he is a better athlete?
Not because he worked on technique, watched film, and learned to get better.
Also, SA shot so high, because they played great defense, got turnovers, and have a great transition game...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum NBA Thread
|
|
