DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum More Johnny Manziel discussion . . .

Browns may use Manziel in a specialty package

Posted by Mike Florio on July 24, 2014, 6:51 PM EDT

For a guy who lived through the Mark Sanchez/Tim Tebow debacle in New York, Browns coach Mike Pettine doesn’t seem to be concerned about his quarterback competition in Cleveland becoming a potential two-man show. In fact, it looks like that’s what Pettine wants.

During his interview with Tony Grossi of ESPNCleveland.com, Pettine said that the team is considering using Manziel as a Wildcat-style change-of-pace in his rookie year.

“We’ve already talked about it,” Pettine said regarding the possibility of using both Manziel and Brian Hoyer in the same game.
“We’ve already installed elements of it in the spring. We ran some of the zone-read stuff in practice and Kyle [Shanahan] incorporated some of the mobile quarterback elements of what he did in Washington. We’re still going to go back to the beginning in pads, but as we get going, some of the stuff that’s more game-plan-specific that we don’t want to show, we might work on in our walk-throughs as opposed to a public practice.”

Pettine wisely didn’t point to the Sanchez-Tebow experiment as justification for doing it.

“That’s how Colin Kaepernick got his start in the NFL, as a package quarterback,” Pettine said of the former 49ers backup. “On the other side of the ball, I’ve seen that give defenses some trouble. I think there’s positives and negatives to it. You’re taking your starter off the field. You have his rhythm and continuity to take into account, but at the same time defensively you’re now forcing a team to basically come up with two game plans. I mean, there are pluses and minuses to it and it’s something I’m sure will be discussed at some point.”

In theory, the Jets wanted Tebow because of the pressure that preparing for two quarterbacks puts on a defense. And if former offensive coordinator Tony Sporano had any faith at all in Tebow, the Jets may have actually used him.

The Jets and Pettine nevertheless got a first-hand look at the challenge of dealing with two quarterbacks in September 2012, when Kaepernick rushed five time for 50 yards and a touchdown coming off the bench and showing the Jets how to properly employ a two-quarterback system.

If the Browns could pull it off, the dilution of the ability of the opposing defense to fully prepare for each guy could help both guys thrive. The only downside is that, as Manziel has more and more success, more and more fans will be clamoring for him to be something other than a part-time player.

My two cents..I've always thought that the first NFL team to truly implement a two QB system if executed correctly, will dominate. Atleast for a few years until others catch on to it.

Browns 'alarmed' by some of Johnny Manziel's behavior, concerned it's set him back in QB competition, sources say

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/browns_alarmed_by_some_of_john.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on July 25, 2014 at 11:34 AM, updated July 25, 2014 at 2:49 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns have been 'alarmed' by some of Johnny Manziel's antics since the draft -- especially a photo of him rolling up a $20 bill in the bathroom of a bar -- and some in the organization feel he's lost ground in the quarterback competition heading into camp, sources have told Northeast Ohio Media Group.

After the suspicious photo of Manziel tightly rolling up the bill surfaced on July 7, Browns coach Mike Pettine called Manziel from his vacation in Hawaii and addressed it, he told NEOMG on Monday. The conversation was 'positive' but he also planned to talk to Manziel face-to-face when he arrived for the rookie portion of camp on Wednesday. Tightly-rolled bills are typically used to snort cocaine, and the Browns wanted some answers.

In fact, NFL chemical dependency consultant and former Browns team physician Dr. Gregory Collins of the Cleveland Clinic told NEOMG that such a photo would warrant a league inquiry and drug test to make sure the player is okay, even though it's not proof of use.

But it's not just that photo that has the Browns dismayed, the sources said.

Manziel regressed in practice after the first week of organized team activities, and some in the organization attributed it to too much jet-setting and not enough dedication to the playbook.

Team officials had bought into Manziel's pre-draft promises to tone down the partying and leave his frat-boy lifestyle back in College Station, Texas, and they've been stunned by his non-stop antics, sources said.

Since they traded up to draft him No. 1 overall on May 8, he's partied hard in New York City, Las Vegas twice, Los Angeles with hip-star Drake, Austin, Tex., Houston, Tex. and at pop star Justin Bieber's house in Beverly Hills with the likes of world boxing champ Floyd Mayweather.

The romp across the country -- complete with photos of him drinking magnums of champagne and spraying it around clubs -- has been completely opposite of what Manziel told the Browns during his private workout for them at Texas A&M and during his pre-draft visit to Cleveland. It's also been contrary to what he said publicly in the months leading up to the draft and after the Browns traded up to No. 22 to select him.

In an interview with John McLain of the Houston Chronicle in February, Manziel vowed to shed his Johnny Football personna and TMZ lifestyle.

"I was a kid who made some goofball decisions," he said. "That's been part of my journey. Maybe it's part of the whole Johnny Football deal that I'm trying to get away from. I'm trying to show people I've grown up and I've learned from my experiences. I feel like you're a stupid person if you continue to make the same wrong decisions. I don't want to hear, 'Oh, anybody in his situation would have been doing the same thing.' I'm 100 percent responsible for my actions."

He also said, "Johnny Football is the stuff you see on TMZ. There's part of that folktale that goes along with it and tries to twist me into somebody I'm not all the time. I feel like now there's kind of like this frozen food package - a prewrapped, precooked package of who I am.

"Johnny Manziel is the guy that - whether it's Houston, Jacksonville, Cleveland or Oakland - you'll have to drag off that field before I stop playing for those guys. Those are my teammates. Those are my brothers from now on. I'm going to fight until there's no time left on the clock. That's Johnny Manziel.''

That's the Johnny Manziel the Browns thought they were getting, the one that seemed to grow up before the world's eyes in the months leading up to the draft.
Manziel's agent, Erik Burkhardt, shielded him from the spotlight during the pre-draft process, keeping him away from the Super Bowl festivities in New York City and sharply limiting his interviews. Meanwhile, Manziel spent his days and nights working out with quarterback guru and Massillon native George Whitfield in San Diego, where Whitfield honed his skills and improved his pocket presence considerably.

At his Pro Day at Texas A&M, Manziel re-iterated that he was a new man, dedicated to becoming a Super Bowl-winning quarterback.

"I just want to let these guys know that my focus is football. This is my life. This is what I love to do. I've never been more dedicated and committed in my entire life. I'm so excited. I understand the challenge and the jump. There's no denying that,'' he told NFL Network. "I want to be one of those (stars) one day. ...whether it's Peyton Manning, whether it's Tom Brady, I see what it takes for them to be great. You have to be dedicated to it 100 percent that way.''

And on draft weekend, Manziel vowed to keep his promise.

"I know I need to put all my time right now into maintaining my life in football and trying to be as good of a quarterback as possible,'' he said. "Everything else is extra and really there's no time for that now. I'm very committed to expanding my knowledge of the game and getting better as a quarterback. That's my focus right now.''

Two weeks later, he boarded a plane for Vegas over Memorial Day Weekend and the perpetual bachelor party was on.

Pettine remained unfazed through most of the twitter and Instagram posts, the inflatable swans, the money phones and the Bieber blowout, but became concerned -- along with everyone else in the organization -- when the bill-rolling photo landed.
In addition to calling Manziel, Pettine got on the horn with some of Manziel's college coaches and was assured he'd buckle down once camp started.

"I know as committed he is to football, once the season starts, it should not be an issue,'' Pettine said. "People who know him have said it will stop.''

Impact on the quarterback competition

But as this week has worn on, Pettine seems to have changed his tune on the quarterback competition.

On Monday, he told cleveland.com that although Brian Hoyer is starting out No. 1 on the depth chart, he views the competition "as open'' and vowed to give Hoyer and Manziel reps with "the same supporting cast'' to make it as fair and even as possible.

By Wednesday afternoon, after meeting with offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains, Pettine told a second wave of reporters in one-on-one interviews that Manziel wouldn't be getting reps with the first team offense during the early days of training camp, which begins Saturday.

"Well, they're going to compete, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to take equal time with the ones," Pettine told The Chronicle-Telegram. "Brian is the starting quarterback right now, we can still evaluate Johnny's reps regardless of who he's out there with. I think a lot will be made of, wait a minute, he hasn't been with the (ones). To me, it's something that we can still evaluate, give him a specific grade based on his footwork, how he called the play, what he read during that play — all the stuff that's in his control.

"It doesn't matter what group he's with, he's still getting graded. That'll be a big part of the evaluation, it won't be how he did when he was necessarily with a certain group."

Pettine, who will name his starter before the third preseason game Aug. 23, also cautioned that it will be tough for Manziel beat out Hoyer for the starting job.

"I would say it's a tall task, for a couple reasons," Pettine said. "One, he's a rookie coming in learning the system. It's not like (Miami's Ryan) Tannehill, who came in running his college system. He's learning something that's completely new to him, so he's got all new verbiage and reads and that type of thing working against him.

"And then the guy he's competing with is an NFL veteran who's learned from one of the best in the game, who's very prepared, very focused. It's a very true statement, it will be difficult."

Indeed, Hoyer, who's coming off a torn anterior cruciate ligament, has taken only five days off since returning from his October surgery and is determined to stave off the Heisman Trophy winner, who made a bold proclamation to the Houston Chronicle in February.

"People can call me crazy, and it's not cockiness, (but) I'm going to put myself in (position) to win the Super Bowl every single year," Manziel said. "A 5-10 guy (Russell Wilson) just won the Super Bowl in his second year in the NFL. That's unreal. I want to be the first rookie to win the Super Bowl."

Other sources have said it's still truly an open competition and no one knows how it will play out yet, in part because the club hasn't yet seen Hoyer operate in the new offense in 11-on-11s yet. However, he's been cleared for full action in camp, and the Browns want him to start catching up right away.

Don't bet against Manziel

A source close to Manziel said he's been working hard behind the scenes, bulking up some and even going back out to San Diego to work with Whitfield, who was recently hired as an assistant coach with the 49ers.

"People said all of this stuff about Johnny after he won the Heisman as a freshman, that he was out partying too much,'' said the source. "But he came back even stronger his second year and arguably played better against Alabama and other teams as a sophomore. He'll come into camp with the right mindset -- to be better tomorrow than he is today.''

The source said Manziel made huge strides from his first year to second year at Texas A&M and "he's got to be out there doing something right when the whole world's not watching to make those types of improvements. There are no stories around the weight room. The stories are when he's out with a rock star.

Whitfield, who's no longer allowed to speak at length about Manziel because he works for the 49ers, would at least allow that learning from Hoyer will be the best thing that happens to Manziel.

"Brian Hoyer is going to have a very big impact on Johnny learning how to be a professional,'' said Whitfield. "He's a blue-chip quarterback. Everything Johnny needs to learn from a true professional is there in Brian and Johnny's talked about that. He's learned from him already and what kind of example he sets. Every day he gets to go to work with and sit next to a guy that's done it in Brian.''

Sources said Manziel looked sharp on his first day of practice Thursday and had a good grasp of the plays being run, a sign that he's had his nose in the playbook.
"People will see how hard Johnny works once this thing gets rolling,'' said a source. "He'll get more mature as he goes along. He's 21 and people want him to be 35. I would not count him out.''



(end)

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Team officials had bought into Manziel's pre-draft promises to tone down the partying and leave his frat-boy lifestyle back in College Station, Texas, and they've been stunned by his non-stop antics, sources said.

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yep. and then people wonder why BH has so much support.

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Manziel regressed in practice after the first week of organized team activities, and some in the organization attributed it to too much jet-setting and not enough dedication to the playbook.

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That is a concern. Hopefully it will teach Manziel that he has to stay in his playbook year round in order to become, and stay a starting QB in the NFL. He's not going to get by on talent alone.

The Browns knew or, should have known what they were getting when they drafted Manziel. Mary Kay being complicit in a piece suggesting that the team was duped by Manziel is disingenuous at the least and/or the work of a simpleton.

After Pettine and Shanahan were asked repeatedly over the past few weeks about the status of the competition and in quotes each of them stating that at this point the competition is inconclusive, somebody is lying. Either the coaches or MKC. The coaches both gave the impression that the competition hasn't started in earnest.

If Mary Kay is talking to non-football sources they need to return to the same media discipline the organization showed leading up to the draft.

j/c

I see this article as a warning shot from the FO to Johnny before camp begins. They knew what they were getting back in May ... they sold their tickets and uniforms, but now they're warning Manziel while also protecting themselves from public backlash when Hoyer gets all the playing time

not j/c...

That is a plausible explanation. My problem with it is that trying to get JFF to conform could have been avoided by drafting a different player. The media spectacle that is JFF has yet to relent, not when he was at Texas A&M, not following the Manning Camp incident, not in regard to the autograph-for-cash controversy, not for the Swan Dive or any Champaign showers.

The team keeps drawing comparisons to the Seahawks then maybe they should make room for free spirits. If they really don't want to then don't put them on the roster.

If the Browns were so concerned about Manziel why draft him?

His off field exploits were well documented.

The old adage is: "actions speak louder than words".

" past actions forecast future actions."

I hope he gets his act together and becomes more than another wasted first round quarterback pick.

sources have told Northeast Ohio Media Group.

Is that Janitor talking to the media again.

That's weird I think I read every article on our Mini camps and this is the first I'm hearing about - JM regressing in his play??? I've heard of a bad day and then recovery the next practice stuff like that.

Bozo's are ridiculous.

Also on ESPN Radio NY I heard one of the Jockeys most of their names are Mike. State he's wants to know if the Browns sell out Training camp Practice because of JM...I'm not a local but don't we sell out all of them in the past??? Or can they even have a sell out? They just pack em in?
JMH?

hawkins talked about how hard Manziel worked when he was in the gym. Guys were talking about Manziel making no mistakes. Pettine sounded impressed with Johny's absorbition of the plays. Yet noone will want to talk about those things.

Everyone grab a mic and point out how wrong Johny Manziel is for being a celebrity during the dead zone. I have seen a whole lot of boyscouts come in here go to children's hospitals, spend friday nights at church and help old ladies cross the street and were helped out the door because they sucked on Sunday.

I will be honest, what he did in the deadzone was blow off a little steam and he just did it with playboy bunnies and Lebron instead of with joebob on the back porch. I think he can prioritize now that its time to nut up.

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but don't we sell out all of them in the past??? Or can they even have a sell out? They just pack em in?

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Last year we just showed up and walked in....we went to a few of them. It didn't seem overcrowded or anything, I was able to get great pics and my son got plenty of autographs.. I don't think we'll go this year, it seems like it's going to be a circus.

Johnny Manziel: 'I made some rookie mistakes'
By Dan Hanzus
Around the League Writer

Johnny Manziel knew the questions were coming. His solution in his first training camp press conference with the Cleveland Browns was to address the situation himself in his opening remarks.

"Me and coach Pettine and Ray Farmer really talked about a lot of things that transpired over the course of the offseason," Manziel said Friday. "The main thing is people within this building, my teammates, the coaching staff, the higher-ups in this organization -- we've all been on the same page, we've all been good and we're very eager to be moving forward."

"At the end of the day, I've made some rookie mistakes, there's some things I wish I could have gone back and done a little differently, but continuing to move forward and try to represent this organization in a positive manner and a positive light."

Manziel wouldn't get off that easy, of course. His first question was in reference to a photo of Manziel in which the quarterback appears to be rolling up a $20 bill in a bathroom.

"I just spoke on that a little bit," Manziel replied. "I've talked about that with that coach Pettine, I've talked about it with Ray Farmer and the people I need to talk about that with and moving forward they're good with everything and I've told them everything that I need to and everything's been good."

Manziel acknowledged "rookie mistakes," but still defended his right to enjoy himself during his free time.

"I don't think there's anything wrong with me going out and having a nightlife and having a social life," he said. "I am 21 years old, and I do like going out. It was the offseason, free time for us, and if I want to go out, hang out with my friends or go to nightclubs or do things like that, I think that's within my rights to be doing that."

Manziel added that he doesn't view himself as an underdog in his summer competition with veteran Brian Hoyer and believes there's enough time to win the starting job out of camp. Pettine reiterated on Friday that Hoyer will start the preseason opener barring an unforeseen setback.

Pettine said earlier in the week that the Browns will name their starter before the team's third preseason game. Manziel has less than a month to make his case.


Link

This is like two different articles.

The first part was OMG..............it's so horrible.

The second part was like he was looking good.

I have some concerns, but it appears that the author was sensationalizing the bad to get more attention.

I have to get this in...................I know I just defended Manziel, but while searching the web for football news this morning, I came across news on how well Teddy Bridgewater is doing in Minnesota. He was my guy all along. Teddy is impressing everyone w/his leadership, intelligence, and ARM. He is winning over the team and coaching staff. Meanwhile, our QB is making headlines for reasons other than football.

I'm concerned; hope JM isn't another Ryan Leaf! We shall see.

Teddy sucks at throwing in AFC North winter weather. Johnny Football remains an unproven commodity; who knows if his game will even translate to this league? Pick your poison.

Also, it's the 1st few days of training camp, Bridgewater is from a pro style background, and is throwing largely against air, without a pass rush at all at this point.

At this point last year, ESPN and many others (myself included ) thought that Weeden had turned a corner. It's way too early to know how Bridgewater, or Manziel, will go yet.

I notice he doesn't want to share what that rolled 20 was about. Sigh.

All I seem to read is a me first QB justifying his bad habits. I really don't think he has the mentality it takes to make it in the NFL at this rate. It takes a lot more than showing up for practice and occasionally hitting the playbook.

He reminds of me of kids who never have to study and everything comes easy to them. Then they hit a wall and get shattered on it. You never know if they will put themselves together afterwards or not. IMHO he needs a good dose of humble pie and should sit the entire year, barring injury. He needs to learn what it takes for even a shot to be a NFL QB cause college is where boys play. The NFL is where the MEN play.

Browns' Johnny Manziel: 'I've made some rookie mistakes, I'm not in college anymore'

Coach Pettine re-iterated that it will be 'very difficult' for Manziel to win the job, but that he's ahead of where they expected in the playbook. He said the staff has been very pleased with Manziel's attention to detail and knowledge and conditioning.

"He's very focused,'' said Pettine. "That's already shown up by the way he attacked his conditioning test and how he's been on the field and in the meeting rooms these past couple of days.''

He added that Manziel's biggest battle will be between him and the playbook and not between him and Hoyer.

"I interpret it exactly the way he said it,'' Manziel said. "It's not two short little plays anymore. You have a lot to a play call, you have a lot to read, you have a lot of different things that weren't asked of me at (Texas) A&M. You have to deal with protections, deal with certain things and moving forward, yeah I have to adapt to that. I have to get better and continue to learn the game of football more and more. I'm not sitting up here today saying I know everything or I'm even close to perfecting this thing. I'm still a young guy, a young player and there's a lot to learn and a lot for me to do moving forward.''

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/browns_johnny_manziel_ive_made.html

Cleveland Browns' Brian Hoyer: 'I expect to be the starting quarterback'

He re-iterated that it will be very difficult for Manziel to overtake the seasoned veteran, one who learned from Tom Brady for three seasons in New England.

"I just think that given the circumstances with him being a rookie, it's difficult for a lot of rookies to come in and win a job when there's a guy that's ahead of them that the team has a good feeling about,'' said Pettine. "I made the comment that it's him against the playbook, but that's true of most rookies. We're very pleased with where he is with the playbook.

"He's probably ahead of where we figured he would be, but that's still a tough thing coming from a system where three words called the play. Now it's 10, 11, 12 words calling it, and then to be able to process all that information in a shorter period of time, that's really the challenge for somebody that's new, just getting used to the speed of the game. If we jump in a car and ride 200 miles an hour, we're probably going to drive off the road, but once you train to do it and you get used to it, everything slows down for you.''

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/cleveland_browns_brian_hoyer_i.html

j/c...
Teddy, Does well, Busts, I can care less. I care what JM does.
I thought Teddy was the #1 pick in this draft. The only negative was his grip on the ball. I was shocked he lasted as long as he did. In lieu of all that.

I still see no wrong done by JM...they had OFF, the first time he asked if it was ok to go to Vegas with friends. We gave him the ok to do as he pleased as long as he didn't get in trouble.

I don't see anything he did wrong except he has to live with the notoriety, everything I read about him in Texas it was that way, so he became comfortable with the pics and the constant following of all he did. So at 21 and now legally allowed to drink he is having fun. You know like that "ONE" pic of ELI MANNING totally wasted, I have yet to see that look on JM you know the look, the one you see right before your friend barfs all over the place! Would I rather have him sitting home playing Madden...yeah I guess if he was my son. Then again I would hope that I brought him up right and he should have fun at 21. Just don't do anything wrong.

The roll up thing. I still say, where is the drugs. Every move he made he was followed with anyone seeing anything tweeting. Well where is the tweet - Saw Johnny Football snorting - where? Who knows maybe he was mocking all and rolling that up. I am not naive I know what rolled up bills is for but where did he have the opportunity to participate? When...in his room upstairs later.....who rolls a bill for something you are going to do an hour later in private?

Especially this bs about the "BROWNS" from the infamous "sources" think he digressed as camps went on??? You mean he was getting into the playbook and thinking about things more you know...Learning?

The Browns have a QB who is ready to play in the NFL and his name is Hoyer. Vikings got a lot of guys who had their shot and could get beat by Teddy. I hope he does well he is a good kid. I have no regrets taking JM. I wanted Teddy as well thought we had no shot at him cause he would go overall #1. Then the grip thing came and I studied him. Technique is great - but bad throws. I summarized that in our Get the job done months of Nov. & Dec. he might have a slippage problem, even with the gloves. Vikings are outdoors, don't know if they got the wind we do by the lake but I had visions of dang, who was that decent QB in Seattle with the small hands that he had his slips and loads of fumbles. Very accurate was good except for the many many turnovers almost all coming from losing his grip.

After the Heisman, we heard a lot of the same crap about JM, partying this, doing that. Then when Camps started and the season came, we heard nothing. He was all football.

Well we are seeing the same thing. Its the off season this time he is legal to drink - he has made friends with some famous people and he is a bigger figure than even before. People want to buy him drinks, girls want to take pics with him.

Now its time to go to work, and he has always rolled up his sleeves and put in his 100% - I expect nothing different. Hoyer is without a doubt ready, 2014 is his TIME! We will see what he does with it. I wish we would sign him to a 3 year contract cause he might ball out and we won't be able to cash in...just like Chargers lost Brees, without any compensation. I would at least like to Trade Hoyer if we had no need of him...but I would probably ride the horse till it can go anymore!

For the first time, I think we have a legit QB staff on our team...first time in a long time and first since 1999 that is for sure.

jmho - Hoyer starts and JM is our Future!

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Especially this bs about the "BROWNS" from the infamous "sources" think he digressed as camps went on??? You mean he was getting into the playbook and thinking about things more you know...Learning?

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Like I said earlier, it was as if that one article was actually two articles. It contradicted itself. The beginning was about he digressed and the end was about how made strides and had his nose in the playbook. LOL........amazing.

rookie QB regressing in mini camp, stop the presses lol. I dont know if they were ignorant of the fact that teams try to overload their rookies at the end of minicamp or just wanted to sensationalize the story but it was pretty funny.

pettine stated yesterday that Manziel is farther along in the playbook than expected.