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have you been on twitter in the last five minutes? Pettine's being interviewed now.
Tackles are tackles.
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Fact Pettine told the author before training camp that "COACHES" would evaluate Manziel through 4 days.
Bozo Stuff: The author then made his on "EVALUATION" and deemed it must be so cause of the play...errrr STATS that he saw.
Don't mean a thing till OUR COACHES make an evaluation....I won't go on the Bozos. That might be just me.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Quote:
They have never really been a top team in terms of attendance, but they have routinely put 62-70K fans in the seats per game for the past 5 or so years. They support their team, and don't deserve to have it taken from them.
Everyone here knows that. We didn't deserve it either.
Unless the team is under contract with the previous owners, or with the city to keep the franchise in the area, all any owner needs to do is get NFL approval and it's done. Boom! Buh Bye Bills. It has little to do with how loyal their fans are.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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They have never really been a top team in terms of attendance, but they have routinely put 62-70K fans in the seats per game for the past 5 or so years. They support their team, and don't deserve to have it taken from them.
Everyone here knows that. We didn't deserve it either.
Unless the team is under contract with the previous owners, or with the city to keep the franchise in the area, all any owner needs to do is get NFL approval and it's done. Boom! Buh Bye Bills. It has little to do with how loyal their fans are.
I understand the reality of the business side of things (all too well) .... but it sucks that a fanbase can be loyal, support their team even when they flat out suck, and still lose their team. How many years has it been since the Bills made the playoffs? 14? 15? I can't remember, but I know that it's been over a decade. The fans still support them though. They don't deserve to have their team taken away from them. It makes me sick that they could lose their team. They barely drew 50,000 fans in Toronto over the years, to boot ........ and only 38K last year. Yea Canada! 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah it sucks. Don't get me started on Goodell. He's not doing any good for the league IMO and needs to go. But that's just me.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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have you been on twitter in the last five minutes? Pettine's being interviewed now.
Sounds like Manziel played well today. Before TC I thought he would win the job outright. Those stats though, 49% isn't even close to being ready.
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have you been on twitter in the last five minutes? Pettine's being interviewed now.
Sounds like Manziel played well today. Before TC I thought he would win the job outright. Those stats though, 49% isn't even close to being ready.
His head has still been spinning. This is a guy learning his 1st playbook. He has never played under Center. He has never had multiple reads on both sides of the field. He is going to struggle at first.
I am not willing to say that he'll ever et it, or that he'll definitely fail. Like I said when he was drafted .... it was a worthwhile risk, and we still have assets to use next year if we find that we still need a QB then.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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have you been on twitter in the last five minutes? Pettine's being interviewed now.
Sounds like Manziel played well today. Before TC I thought he would win the job outright. Those stats though, 49% isn't even close to being ready.
His head has still been spinning. This is a guy learning his 1st playbook. He has never played under Center. He has never had multiple reads on both sides of the field. He is going to struggle at first.
I am not willing to say that he'll ever et it, or that he'll definitely fail. Like I said when he was drafted .... it was a worthwhile risk, and we still have assets to use next year if we find that we still need a QB then.
Seeing as he isn't getting 1st team reps I think some of those 'stats' have to be taken with a grain of salt without actually seeing what all happened in each of those plays. (drops, blown assignments, etc)
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have you been on twitter in the last five minutes? Pettine's being interviewed now.
Sounds like Manziel played well today. Before TC I thought he would win the job outright. Those stats though, 49% isn't even close to being ready.
His head has still been spinning. This is a guy learning his 1st playbook. He has never played under Center. He has never had multiple reads on both sides of the field. He is going to struggle at first.
I am not willing to say that he'll ever et it, or that he'll definitely fail. Like I said when he was drafted .... it was a worthwhile risk, and we still have assets to use next year if we find that we still need a QB then.
Seeing as he isn't getting 1st team reps I think some of those 'stats' have to be taken with a grain of salt without actually seeing what all happened in each of those plays. (drops, blown assignments, etc)
There is probably some of that as well. Good point.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Seeing as he isn't getting 1st team reps I think some of those 'stats' have to be taken with a grain of salt without actually seeing what all happened in each of those plays. (drops, blown assignments, etc)
While those are valid points, on the flip side he's throwing against and playing against a weaker, slower secondary and D front 7.
With an entire new playbook and O scheme, I believe as it pertains to the O, your point about blown assignments could just as easily apply to the first team as well.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Except the D is always ahead of the O. Front 7 is talented in 3rd n 2nd units....not the OL. Just like CBs drop in 2nd n 3rd to WR...but the LOS is much more important than WRs 
lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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You can say that, but with new schemes on both sides of the ball, there is some confusion on both sides of the ball at all levels.
And there's a reason why people play with the first team, the second team and so on.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Its about what i figured it would be at this pooint. I felt Hoyer would look decent but not great and Manziel would struggle through the first few days but begin showing improvement. When he is rolling out, and lets face it this is a major element of Shannahan's system, he is fantastic. When is is out there throwing on the run, he is comfortable the other stuff will come with the more reps he gets.
I think he will perform equal to Hoyer at the scrimmage with one or 2 wow moments and then really shine in those preseason games. I still feel certain that Manziel will be the starter on opening day. We may not let him throw it 10 times that day, but I think he will start.
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Kyle Shanahan says neither Brian Hoyer nor Johnny Manziel 'is further in front' in Cleveland Browns' QB battle Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group Follow on Twitter on July 31, 2014 at 1:36 PM, updated July 31, 2014 at 3:28 PM Cleveland Browns 2014 BEREA, Ohio -- Browns offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan said he sees the quarterback competition between Brian Hoyer and Johnny Manziel as even right now, despite the fact Hoyer has been taking all of the first-team reps. What's more, Manziel will be taking some first-team reps soon. "I don't think one's any further in front than the other,'' Shanahan said Thursday after the fifth day of training camp. "I think they've both done a good job. As far as these five practices, usually one day one guy is ahead of the other, and the next day the other guy does the better job. "I think it's been back and forth. It's something I don't try to evaluate every day. It usually plays out. Hopefully as these preseason games go, as these practices go, I hope one of them will make the decision easy on us. One of them will just take off and start playing really well, and usually the answer becomes really easy." Shanahan echoed coach Mike Pettine's sentiments that the club will start to give Manziel some first-team reps soon. For the first five days, he's worked almost exclusively with the second-team offense. "We'll eventually work him in with the first o-line, and I'm sure you guys will see that sooner than later,'' said Shanahan. Pettine also said Thursday "it's a knee-jerk reaction'' to think Hoyer will start the first game just because he's taking all the first-team reps right now. Shanahan said he knows he has to be patient with the quarterback competition because both players are new to the scheme. "You've got a rookie quarterback trying to learn the new offense,'' he said. "You've also got another quarterback who's not a rookie, but it's a new offense for him also. They're both trying to get their feet wet. ....Brian's also coming off an ACL, so it's been good to get him in some team drills and stuff. But it's been going well, and as it gets going more and more, the competition will get tighter.'' Shanahan said he wouldn't hesitate to put a package of plays in for Manziel early on if Hoyer is named the starter right away. "I would do it if it looked like the right thing to do,'' he said. "I have no problem with that. I think it does present some issues. If we think it can move the chains and be successful, I would never hesitate to do it.'' Manziel said it was nice to hear that neither quarterback is ahead but that he's just trying to learn the offense and isn't concerned about whether or not he'll win the starting job. "It's me against the playbook right now,'' he said. He said the offense is so much different than what he ran at Texas A&M, where he had more installation plans and not as much of a big, formal playbook. Manziel also acknowledged that "I've always been better in a game situation'' and that he knows "I'm not going to have much freedom'' to freelance in the scrimmages and preseason games, because he has to learn to work within the framework of the offense. But Shanahan, who worked with dual-threat quarterback Robert Griffin III the past two seasons in Washington, plans to let Manziel be the dynamic player he was in college and isn't about to squelch him. "Johnny's continued to progress as a quarterback,'' said Shananan. "He's doing some things he didn't do in college, but at the same time trying not to lose what he is, trying to still make those plays you guys in college, and trying to learn when to let a play develop and when to abort to the play and get out of the pocket and do what he does best.'' Shanahan added that he's still also learning what Hoyer can do. "I had him in OTAs with (seven-on-sevens), but I'm getting more used to him,'' said Shanahan. "I have four games of game tape to look at him, but he's been coming along. .... He's gone a good job getting our team in and out of the huddle, running the plays, executing the plays.'' Hoyer said he's also not concerned about who's ahead in the competition, and that he's just trying to master the new offense. He said his surgically repaired knee has held up fine, and he's looked comfortable with all the rollouts and bootlegs in Shanahan's scheme. More to come soon on the quarterback competition. web page
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uh oh... this does not match well what all of the outside observers have said is going on at camp.
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I would not say it is an "uh oh."
This is a weird situation. In the past, first round picks like Timid, BQ, and Weeden were fan favorites no matter how putrid they were and how badly they were outplayed by their competitors. This time around, the majority really seem to dislike Manziel and are relishing in bad-mouthing him.
I really like Hoyer, but this outright hostility towards Manziel is making me root for him a bit more.
With all that said...............I am interpreting Shanny's comments as such:
---neither qb is doing that great of a job and neither one has distinguished himself as being clearly ahead of the other.
and
---he prefers Manziel.
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I'm not sensing hate or a huge measure of dislike for JM.,,what I get is dislike for his off field social life...and people feel because he's not instantly grasping things it has set him back.
The reality is and you know this,,he's a rookie learning a complex system and has only been in camp 1 week.
While I didn't want the Browns to draft him , I get what he needs to learn and it takes time to do that,,everyone in here should know that from 14 years of TRAINING CAMP.
Me ...I want to see some games and see if this team looks clueless like past teams or if they look like they're gonna compete.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 07/31/14 08:01 PM.
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I have never seen the anger towards a rookie like I have seen with Manziel. I mean former players are so jealous of this kid its embarrassing. You never hear former players rip another player like that especially a kid just coming into the league. Every one of these former players says Johny cant do it.
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I hear you.
I'm on here more than you and I'm telling you........there are quite a few people on here that really, really don't like the guy.
It's just different because we both remember how much the masses loved Timid and BQ. Heck, even the stiff Weeden got a lot of love. This time last year the masses were telling me what an idiot I was because I said that while Norv's system was a better fit, it would not mask how poorly he read coverages post snap.
Yep, I was the idiot.
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Well, that makes me root for him even more. I am all about overcoming great odds and proving the masses wrong.
You know that I really, really wanted us to draft Teddy. You and I even had some sparring sessions over that fact. I still wish we would have drafted Teddy. I value football intelligence and no one was in Teddy's ballpark in that respect.
However, I think you and I see Manziel in a similar fashion. He could be the bomb. He could also be the bust. But, we would never bet against this kid and all this negative hype makes us root for him just a bit more than we would have otherwise. Am I wrong?
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I want whoever is rhe QB to be successful .Manziel will get his turn..I just hope that he doesn't implode or can't hack it, otherwise we'll be looking for another QB ..
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j/c
My comments on Manziel weren't a negative. It simply goes along with what some others have said. Johnny Football has been here for one week in a new system with this being the only full playbook he has ever had to learn.
Rome wasn't built in a day. His maturation will take some time. I don't think it's a stretch by any means to expect Hoyer to be more adept at learning the playbook and emplement a new playbook.
It's not a nock on Johnny Football but rather what I feel should be a natural expectation. There is time for JF to catch up on the learning curve here. I just feel it's very unrealistic to expect it to happen with practices only going on for one week.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I want the same.
You and I have been around here forever..........we have watched QB after QB fail. We're due, bro.
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I wasn't talking about you when I made that post, Pit. It's just a general observation. It has a WAY different feel from when Brady was here. Heck, DA led us to 10 wins. He made the Pro Bowl. And all I heard was how terrible he was and how great we would be w/BQ. Totally different feel w/Manziel. There are guys, like PDR, who said he almost certainly going to fail. What? That's as dumb as saying that Timid was going to be a HOFer, which was repeated over and over and over back in the day. Don't take offense, bro..................it's just a different feel. And you know me.........I'm backing the underdog. The only problem I am having w/this is that I really, really like Hoyer. I was one of the guys leading the charge last year that he should play over Weeden and Campbell. Did you all forget those conversations? LOL Bottom line..............I want the guy who gives us the best chance to win to be our guy. Now, that doesn't mean I won't give some of you guys grief when I think you are stacking the deck for your own personal favorite. 
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'Kyle Shanahan says neither Brian Hoyer nor Johnny Manziel 'is further in front' in Cleveland Browns' QB battle' http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/kyle_shanahan_says_neither_bri.htmlVERY interesting..... If Manziel starts the season as the starter, I would be shocked..... But I'm sure that's what a lot of people would like to see. 'May the best man win.' 
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Quote:
uh oh... this does not match well what all of the outside observers have said is going on at camp.
Yep.
Perhaps it's just fodder for the fans?
Who knows for certain?
Regardless, I'm pumped for this season - both for football AND basketball this year (we all know why on the latter).
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True hope on the latter.
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Quote:
'Kyle Shanahan says neither Brian Hoyer nor Johnny Manziel 'is further in front' in Cleveland Browns' QB battle'
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/kyle_shanahan_says_neither_bri.html
VERY interesting.....
If Manziel starts the season as the starter, I would be shocked.....
But I'm sure that's what a lot of people would like to see.
'May the best man win.'
I think its because most people are acting like Hoyer is Tom Brady II, he's not...I really don't think he's that good..just compared to what we had last year he looked better than them, but that isn't saying much...he's still guy that throws alot of interceptions, and is a sub 60% accurate passer with no deep ball. But I think if he can stay in control, manage the game and throw short to intermediate accurately and give his receivers a chance to get YAC, he can be serviceable until JF is ready or until winston or mariota is ready next year...lol
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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You arent wrong. The piling on from the media, former players and fans have me really wanting this kid to do great. He had a slow to average at best release in college and now people are ripping on him because Hoyer who has one of the quickest releases in the game is gettign the ball out probably less than a half a second quicker. Hell I am elated with the progress he has made.
he apparently had a pretty good day today and it brought praise from the coaches yet I am watching NFLN andl according to guys like Jamie dukes and curtis conway, "it was just coach speak because they have to make it sound close in order to not split the locker room"? seriously thats the best you can come up wtih.
My favorite was the espn talking heads saying that dont pay any attention to what Manziel does in preseason because he will be playing against the #2's and they even mentioned him starting against the skins, like that the Skins will start their #2s.
They want to see him fail and fail miserably. He may indeed fail miserably but if he brings to this team what he brought to A&M, i think this team an be special and can be special very quickly.
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Excellent post until you got to the Mariota part. That guy is more raw than Johnny. He has one read. If it is not there, he takes off. He is not even close to being NFL ready.
No offense.
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Yeah bro...........I'm w/you. It's a bunch of BS reporting. I am getting the feeling that many people would be happy to see Manziel fail.
I know that sounds weird, bro................but, I am not kidding. They will actually take pleasure in another man's failure. I am going to root for him even more now. Screw those idiots. { I do still wish we would have taken Teddy, though...LOL}
I gotta mention this, too..................................you have no idea how much it annoys me when people say "it was against the twos." Do any of those idiots realize that the guy is playing w/the 2's on offense? Good God! And anyone who has played or coached football on any level KNOWS that the defensive 2s are far superior to the offensive twos when they match-up. It ain't even close.
I remember reading that same BS when Holcomb continually outperformed Timid back in the day. Do people not recognize that not having your top OL and WRs are important? Sheesh!!!!
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Quote:
Excellent post until you got to the Mariota part. That guy is more raw than Johnny. He has one read. If it is not there, he takes off. He is not even close to being NFL ready.
No offense.
lol no i am not a mariota fan..i was just making a joke of the next big hype..I agree..i don't want any part of mariota either
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Yeah bro...........I'm w/you. It's a bunch of BS reporting. I am getting the feeling that many people would be happy to see Manziel fail.
I know that sounds weird, bro................but, I am not kidding. They will actually take pleasure in another man's failure. I am going to root for him even more now. Screw those idiots. { I do still wish we would have taken Teddy, though...LOL}
I gotta mention this, too..................................you have no idea how much it annoys me when people say "it was against the twos." Do any of those idiots realize that the guy is playing w/the 2's on offense? Good God! And anyone who has played or coached football on any level KNOWS that the defensive 2s are far superior to the offensive twos when they match-up. It ain't even close.
I remember reading that same BS when Holcomb continually outperformed Timid back in the day. Do people not recognize that not having your top OL and WRs are important? Sheesh!!!!
haha, thats a perfect post...I can't stand it when people disqualify a good performance based on the opponent, if you are playing 2's or 3's with 2's and 3's well that makes all things equal. You still have to make the right reads, you still have to set protections, identify the blitz etc..don't matter what string they are.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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I don't know that folks would be happy to see him fail - eh, who am I kidding, I'm sure there are some - but, I think most people simply want to see him legitimately EARN the starting job by taking it away from Hoyer by being better than Hoyer. I'm pretty sure that nobody in their right mind wants us to see him get the nod simply because he's a 1st round pick, or because he has his own publicist, or because of all the hype.... those are not reasons to start the kid. I think that mostly folks want all the ridiculous hype to go away and for the media to shut up until the kid has actually earned something.... anything.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,215 Likes: 211 |
I would love for Manziel to never get the chance to start because Hoyer studded out, which would make me happy.
If Hoyer isn't the man, then I hope Johnny becomes a hall of famer for us, which would also make me very happy.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364 |
It's a lot like those who seem to almost pray that Gordon is suspended so they can be right ..... no matter if the team is hurt by that suspension. There are people who wanted us to go another way at QB and are just dying to be able to say "I told you so!!!" ,,,, even if the team is set back and hurt.
Personally, I think that Manziel is a huge talent and huge risk ..... but I think that he was the right pick where he was taken, I on't se middle ground with this kid. He either becomes a superstar, or we're looking at a QB next year ... when we happen to have an extra 1st round pick to work with.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
I don't know that folks would be happy to see him fail - eh, who am I kidding, I'm sure there are some - but, I think most people simply want to see him legitimately EARN the starting job by taking it away from Hoyer by being better than Hoyer. I'm pretty sure that nobody in their right mind wants us to see him get the nod simply because he's a 1st round pick, or because he has his own publicist, or because of all the hype.... those are not reasons to start the kid. I think that mostly folks want all the ridiculous hype to go away and for the media to shut up until the kid has actually earned something.... anything.
That says it perfectly.
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Jan 2013
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I find that funny because Farmer would have drafted Mariota at #4 if he came out this year. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...us-mariota-besthttp://nflspinzone.com/2014/02/12/marcus-mariota-ray-farmers-qb-choice/We know Lombardi was probably the one who leaked it. We also know we now have 2 QB's that Lombardi and Banner wanted fighting for starting time ... I don't know how to feel a bout that... 
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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I'll tell you how to feel about that, feel good!
Hoyer IS NOT PROVEN, but he showed me enough last year to want to see him under center for the season and if Manziel unseats him, all the better. Personally I hope Johnny Football gets to be Johnny Clipboard this year, because that means Hoyer is getting it done.
Who cares who wanted them here, they are here, they are your Cleveland Browns QBs... just root for them.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 08/01/14 12:10 AM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,993 Likes: 364 |
I just hope that one guy manages to win the job outright (as opposed to not losing it) and holds the job all season long with solid play.
I also think that our QBs will get solid work against our defense .....and they should with guys like Haden Gilbert, and Skrine playing against our #1 offense. That trio should out our QBs and WRs through their paces, and I can't think of too many teams whose secondaries will be a bigger challenge than ours. That should help our offense get better. (hopefully, anyway)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum More Johnny Manziel discussion . .
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