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Thank you Bleeds...you get me.
I don't blame anyone thinking the other scenario is the probable outcome.
I have hope cause I think Hoyer gets it. Has a better arm than Holcomb and more talent. The team believes in him....my only MAJOR negative is the system is new and that always retards the Offensive Flow. That is my negative X factor that can put a monkey wrench in this scenario. I don't want to even think of injuries.
But as I stated..more so for the young fans who have had no other history with the Browns than the scenario you laid out and what you expect. I get it and won't chastise you. It is what it is. I just have a feeling about this group of guys...and our future. I like like, Farmer, really like like Pettine, even Shanahan... Like the players and how we excel inside where football is still determined.
This Hoyer scenario as Unlikely something that good happens to the Browns. It can easily happen if the wheels don't come off. We'll see - possibly a Gordon decision in our favor confirms my destiny talk...
But yeah I don't get the CANNOT HAPPEN concepts.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I'd be pretty surprised if we could net a second round pick for either Hoyer or Manziel, let alone multiple picks.
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Hoyer was 3-0, but left that 3rd "win" while trailing 7-0 in that game. He played against an awful Vikings team. AWFUL. He threw 3 INT against a team that grabbed a total of 12 for the whole year! Think about that. 1/4 of all of the INT throws against the Vikings last year, were thrown by Brian Hoyer, in one game. They also allowed 37 TD passes last year. That defense stunk. He did OK though ... with 3 TD in addition to those 3 INT. He was set up to succeed by being put in against the worth passing defense in the NFL last year, and in the 1st game in which we got back out best offensive weapon. (Gordon) He then played against a Bengals team that was missing 3 of their 4 starters in their secondary. He played very well in that game, but to somehow pretend that there weren't conditions that affected how and why he played as he did is ridiculous. In the Bills game, he then went 2-4 for 25 yards, (granted, with a drop) and got hurt. The Bills led the game 7-0 when he went down with an injury. Hoyer gave the team a boost. I don't think that anyone would dispute that. However, let's not pretend that he was Tom Brady. He did some nice things, and some not so nice things. As far as having a large % of our wins ....... well, on a 4 win team, really?  Look, I would love to see everything go so perfectly that we wind up trading Hoyer for a pair of 2nd round picks, and Manziel knocks the league on its collective ass. I do think that Manziel has the talent to possibly do the 2nd part ...... but the 1st part ......? That's where I have major questions. I just don't see anyone as valuing Hoyer that highly. Not with one year under Center. (basically)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Vers n I were on the same page last year - this year the opposite. I thought our draft was pretty darn good.
Maybe I am reading this wrong, but are you saying that I think this year's draft sucks? I have never said that. I have never even insinuated that. I actually thought it was a pretty good draft.
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You leave a lot out when retelling the Hoyer story and you are the king of hyperbole. Minnesota beat Pittsburgh, something we could not do. They beat the Bears. They had a better record than we did. You are acting like they are McCay's Tampa Bay team where he said he was in favor of his team's execution.  You mentioned the drop against Buffalo, but you didn't mention that it was a perfect pass that would have resulted in an 80 yard TD if Gordon wouldn't have dropped it. You keep making a big deal about the Bengals' injuries. But, other teams never played w/injuries. How about Buffalo the following week? You sure praised Weeden for "leading us to a win." You pick and choose and then keep driving in the points that suit your argument while ignoring other facts.
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You pick and choose and then keep driving in the points that suit your argument while ignoring other facts.
I see a lot of this here at DT.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we're all guilty of it, from time to time. I'm certain that I've been guilty of it over the years. Memory can be selective, just as observations can be subjective.
Heck, if we all had photographic memories and a dominant 'truth gene,' 90% of these threads probably wouldn't exist (or at least, they'd 'peter out' after a page or two).
Perfect recent example: some called the Barnidge 'circus catch' a bad throw by the QB. Others said it was a great back-shoulder placement. If fans can see 2 different things on a single play, it stands to reason that they'll "misremember" lots of stuff over the course of seasons. Couple that with a certainty that they are right.... and you get what was just described.
Shucks, son... ain't nothin' but "Human Nature on display"... 
For me, half the fun in coming here is to hear all the spin... from all the various angles. Makes for some lively discussions.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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For me, half the fun in coming here is to hear all the spin... from all the various angles.
For me, it's almost 100% of the fun. The are some nuggets of wisdom buried in that spin, especially in the interpretations of what the media feeds us. Despite the fact that opposing posters will stop at nothing to be "right" and prove the other wrong, many times both sides offer good insight. I learn much more here than I do from Grossi, Cabot or Carucci.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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nice to see someone else with the same take... 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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You leave a lot out when retelling the Hoyer story and you are the king of hyperbole. Minnesota beat Pittsburgh, something we could not do. They beat the Bears. They had a better record than we did. You are acting like they are McCay's Tampa Bay team where he said he was in favor of his team's execution.
You mentioned the drop against Buffalo, but you didn't mention that it was a perfect pass that would have resulted in an 80 yard TD if Gordon wouldn't have dropped it.
You keep making a big deal about the Bengals' injuries. But, other teams never played w/injuries. How about Buffalo the following week? You sure praised Weeden for "leading us to a win."
You pick and choose and then keep driving in the points that suit your argument while ignoring other facts.
We had new England beat too, until a phantom DPI call.
So what?
Pittsburgh was an 8-8 team last year. They lost their 1st 4 in a row. (including against Minnesota) Just because a team beat another team doesn't make them better. We beat the Patriots ad Saints in back to back weeks under Mangini. Were we better than those 2 teams?
I said that he had a pass dropped in teh Buffalo game, that should have been caught. Sorry if I didn't go into as much detail as you wish I would have.
As far as the Buffalo game, I freely admit that we won that game after knocking their starting QB out. So what? That bottom line is that thigns happen in football games, and you win, or lose them. They don't put asterisks next to the scores. However, when we look at a game, and who played how, we do have to look at the circumstances of the game. Alex Smith was a winning QB with the Nners in his last 2 years there. He still got dumped by the team. There are reasons why the team chose Kaepernick over Smith ... and it wasn't all a raw winning percentage.
In the end, though .... are you really telling me that who a player faces doesn't make a difference in how you view his performance? Don't you look at a 100 yard rushing performance differently if it comes against the Niners, or against the Jacksonville? Really? How about if the Niners had played that game missing Bowman, Aldon Smith,and Ahmad Brooks? Are you really telling me that you wouldn't look at such a performance differently than if those players were all in the game?
I somehow doubt it. We always examine performance based on the bigger picture.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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On those days that we beat them, we were clearly better...
Also, didn't Atl get two 2nds for Schaub before he ever played a game?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Dawg Talker
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On those days that we beat them, we were clearly better...
Also, didn't Atl get two 2nds for Schaub before he ever played a game?
I had to google that. He played six games his rookie year and the rest of the time was on the bench or holding kicks. He was backing up Vick at the time. They swapped first round picks (#8 from houston #10 from atlanta) and Atlanta gave up 2nd round picks in 07 and 08.
"Schaub was introduced to his new team at a press conference on March 22, 2007, and the same day, the Texans released David Carr, opening the door for Schaub to become their long-term starter."
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Yada yada...for a smart guy I'm shocked you don't get it???
The obvious conception of my scenario is the future as in 2014. On his 2013 2+ game 3-0 record book won't get us SQUAT! Why are you trying to claim that is my premise of getting picks for him in trade.
I'll spell it out for you...not my fault but you refuse to see it.
1. Hoyer starts...very possible
2. Hoyer has success in 2014 so that he plays the season (if he stumbles its over JM comes in) So I'm stating for Hoyer to play the entire season we have to be in a Post Season Hunt we will have to end up winning 9-10 games.
3. We sign him to at least a 3 year contract so he is not a FA in 2015 n we get nothing.
4. In 2015 when JM "WINS" the starting QB position, Hoyer becomes "AVAILABLE"
Under those circumstances...and ONLY THOSE circumstances. I think we will have to make a hard decision as teams will try to pry HOYER AWAY from us!
jmho don't try to change my scenario to make me look absurd. I would think the way you are reacting that this upsets you cause Manziel sits in 2014??? I am confused cause normally you are very centered 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Vers n I were on the same page last year - this year the opposite. I thought our draft was pretty darn good.
Maybe I am reading this wrong, but are you saying that I think this year's draft sucks? I have never said that. I have never even insinuated that. I actually thought it was a pretty good draft.
Well then that might be the perfect definition of: ASSume. lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Fine ..... if all of that happens ...... which I find to be incredibly unlikely, then maybe your scenario comes to pass.
However, i find it extremely unlikely that Hoyer signs an extension at this point. He wants to start. Period. If he can't find a starting gig elsewhere, then he would accept being a backup here ..... but he's not going to sign back with us with Manziel around. If Hoyer has a solid year, then he is going to look into either signing here, if the Browns move Manziel, or signing elsewhere as the starter.
I just find your premise to be extremely unlikely from the very start. He's not going to re-sign with us in 2015 unless he is the starter. Period. If he still has to be in "competition", then he's going to move on. If he has a good to better than good year, then someone is going to give him a dal to be their starter. I just don't see the basics of your premise as being sound.
We'll see.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Fine ..... if all of that happens ...... which I find to be incredibly unlikely, then maybe your scenario comes to pass.
That's all I was implying and I have been stating that scenario to happen to us cause its the benefit of having two.
As for your speculation...Hoyer won't start here. That is sort of presented as fact???
Why wouldn't Hoyer sign here? After all he had major success with us (in the preend scenario) how is he to know if JM will beat him out in training camp or not. Nobody thought Rivers was going to sit as long as he did. Nobody thought Brees was going to have the success that he did. It just happened right when they were giving up on Brees.
Why wouldn't he think he had the Starting job here after a season like that. See your entire speculation on this is centered around JM great and BH bad...I'm saying it might not be black and white and we get a 3 year deal by this seasons end. Not wait till March!
jmho Anything is possible cause its happened to other teams why not us.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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2nd String
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Fine ..... if all of that happens ...... which I find to be incredibly unlikely, then maybe your scenario comes to pass.
However, i find it extremely unlikely that Hoyer signs an extension at this point. He wants to start. Period. If he can't find a starting gig elsewhere, then he would accept being a backup here ..... but he's not going to sign back with us with Manziel around. If Hoyer has a solid year, then he is going to look into either signing here, if the Browns move Manziel, or signing elsewhere as the starter.
I just find your premise to be extremely unlikely from the very start. He's not going to re-sign with us in 2015 unless he is the starter. Period. If he still has to be in "competition", then he's going to move on. If he has a good to better than good year, then someone is going to give him a dal to be their starter. I just don't see the basics of your premise as being sound.
We'll see.
Nah.. YOUR scenario is the unlikely one now. Remember, under Tab's scenario Hoyer studs out and we are in a playoff hunt. Under that scenario Hoyer comes back as the starter for starting QB money even with JFF still around. He'd have contract language protecting him from a trade to an undesirable team (basically he'd have to agree to any trades) but Hoyer loves CLE and isn't going to just give up the job because JFF MIGHT beat him out in the next training camp. Really is a crazy scenario you have posed there. It assumes Hoyer has little confidence in his own abilities which just doesn't fit Tab's scenario.
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We'll see what happens.
What I believe will happen is that Manziel will start the season as the starting QB, and will be the starter for the entire season. Hoyer will search for a starting gig after this season, and will re-sign here only if he can't find one elsewhere.
That's the way I see things unfolding.
We each see things differently .... and that's fine. I just can't see any realistic scenario where Hoyer re-signs with us, and #1, we then trade him right away, (which would be a horrible message for anyone we re-sign in the future) and #2, we get a pair of high draft picks in return.
I just don't see any way those 2 things happen ..... but we do all see things differently.
We'll see whose guesses come closest to what actually happens.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I was looking forward to Hoyer's 3rd game, I still am. I'm not sure how people give him that Bills win, he was 1 of 11 and hadn't scored any points when he went down.
Weeden should be the one credited with that win as his last win in a Browns uni. I just hope Hoyer can handle it because I really don't believe that Manziel is mature enough to handle the position yet.
#GMSTRONG
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I think that Manziel is at least as mature as Ben Roethlisberger was as a rookie ..... and he went 15-1, and went to the AFC Championship game.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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I think Johnny is extremely bright, mature enough to run this team and head and shoulders superior athletically over Hoyer.
I do wish Hoyer the best as I like the local guys but JF is special.
He will open the season.
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I think that Manziel is at least as mature as Ben Roethlisberger was as a rookie ..... and he went 15-1, and went to the AFC Championship game.
Two entirely different teams Ytown. Pittsburgh was loaded at receiver, RB, Oline, Dline, LB's.. They were about as close to only being a QB away. That's it.
I'm not sure you can say that about the Browns at this point.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Big Ben started on a team ready to win...and didn't lose games for them. JM is the best QB prospect we have had here since 1999.
If I see Hoyer doing well for us doesn't mean JM is a bust like the BOZOS claim. My scenario is not cause of love of Hoyer or JM but simply for the Browns that would be our best case scenario.
Tulsa...I won't go into possible reason why. But the reason 3-0 is mentioned with Hoyer cause that is how the NFL does the official stats. You start...W or L goes on your record no matter what. There is no 5 innings clause in football.
Possible reasons why...I've been chastise for trying to give plausible reasons before so I'll skip it. I usually put a 2 or 3 win for people to choose their own preference. In most cases its meaningless in the football discussion.
Fact is we won all the games he started in and that is 100% in a season that ended up with only 4 wins. Why I do have hopes for Hoyer's success. He brought the best out of our team that was woeful in just about all games that he was not on the field. 1-12 in those games. Weeden, hey maybe he's a relief pitcher not a starter?
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I think Johnny is extremely bright, mature enough to run this team and head and shoulders superior athletically over Hoyer.
I do wish Hoyer the best as I like the local guys but JF is special.
He will open the season.
I wouldn't say head and shoulders better than Hoyer in the most important attribute and that's the mental part of the game.
If we are going to be running the ball a lot then a stronger arm don't make much difference. Hoyer throws a beautiful ball up to 35 yards. That's all he needs too because 95% of our passes will be under 30 yards.
If johnny starts it will be because Hoyer fell apart. I really don't see him having a shot at beating out Hoyer this year. Now an injury might open the door to him later but his back yard scrambling isn't going to work against non vanilla defenses once the real season starts. Petine wants to win through defense which means he wants someone who will be careful with the ball. Johnny is still too recklas as he spreads his wings.
I honestly think that Manziel will develop into a much, much better QB if it takes him a year or two to win the starting job. He will be forced to learn aspects of the game he has not had to. He will become MUCH better at reading defenses being an understudy to Hoyer. His pocket passing will be fine tuned more before they let him loose but he will find he doesn't need to run around so much because he will know whats going on with the defense and be able to anticipate where WRs will be open at. He will know what it takes to win the job and what it takes to keep it.
If he starts game 1 then he will just think he can skate along and most likely won't work as hard IMHO. I think it will stunt his potential which will be very sad to me because he could have a very high ceiling and be something special.
It's up to the coaches though so I hope Hoyer plays well enough to be our starter and buy Johnny some time to build up his skills.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I think Johnny is extremely bright, mature enough to run this team and head and shoulders superior athletically over Hoyer.
I do wish Hoyer the best as I like the local guys but JF is special.
He will open the season.
I can't disagree with you on any of that, except to say, JM hasn't shown he's better than Hoyer at this point.
I'd say the odds of him doing so are high, I just don't know how long it's going to take.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That bottom line is that thigns happen in football games, and you win, or lose them.
LOL..........you just contradicted yourself. You keep harping on all this crap that was in Hoyer's favor. Then you come back and say that things happen in a football game and you either win or lose them.
Look, I agree w/you that Manziel has a way better chance of being the long term starter in Cleveland. Not arguing that, but whereas you used to make excuses for Weeden's poor play, you are now making excuses for Hoyer's good play.
And I remember you--and others--also making a huge deal about Gordon being back in the line-up for the Viking's game. Funny how that talk quieted down after Weeden came back in the line-up.
You can keep trying to take away Hoyer's wins, but the fact is that he won both games in which he played from start to finish.
Oh.........and you keep saying "we'll see" to tab. You are going to bring it up again if Manziel starts? I think it's a pretty safe bet picking Manziel. He will start at some point. They didn't draft him to be a back-up qb. Did "we see" about the LeBron signing? Did "we see" about the Love trade? You said I couldn't read and a bunch of you were saying I didn't know basketball. Not one of you has said a word, because it freaking played out EXACTLY the way I said it should. Yeah, we saw and you never owned up, so I hope you don't rub tab's face in it.
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I pretty much feel the same way Daman. It would be fun if Hoyer just goes all out and studs out on us =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we're all guilty of it, from time to time. I'm certain that I've been guilty of it over the years. Memory can be selective, just as observations can be subjective.
We are, and I am including myself in that group. My post was more to refute all the nonsense about Hoyer only winning because he played a horrible team and a team that was so beat up that it didn't have a chance. He has mentioned those points over and over and over and sometimes, if those opinions aren't checked, other people begin to take them as gospel.
I have no problems w/him not liking Hoyer. I just want to keep it real.
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I'd love to see Hoyer light it up this Saturday =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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J/C...
Do people still really believe that Hoyer is going to start Week 1? Lol
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Legend
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J/C...
Do people still really believe that Hoyer is going to start Week 1? Lol
What I Believe is that Manziel hasn't shown enough to take the job from him yet.
Will he? I think so, but I don't know when.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hall of Famer
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Just out of curiosity, have you been to any camps?
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
I was looking forward to Hoyer's 3rd game, I still am. I'm not sure how people give him that Bills win, he was 1 of 11 and hadn't scored any points when he went down.
The stats are factual and true. BUT- if memory serves, Hoyer's injury came just as he (and the team) were just starting to "heat up." I remember the energy spike when we put together a few consecutive plays. It really felt like things were turning around at that point. (Wasn't that 'fateful scramble' a first-down conversion?)
I know his stats don't inspire overconfidence, but I really liked how the team played while he was in. For that reason alone, I'm looking forward to this preseason.... just to see if that same chemistry can be recreated.
That said, Manziel intrigues me too- and I'm looking forward to seeimg him with the "1's" at some point in August.
I'll be cool with whomever gets tapped for the starter- I gots no fave Dawg in this fight-
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Legend
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I don't get this 1 for 11 thing? I knew that could not be true, so I looked it up.
Hoyer was 2-4 including a drop by Gordon an Perfectly thrown pass that would have resulted in an 80 yd. TD.
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Legend
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Legend
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j/c
I don't care who starts - and I'll add this caveat: I'm pulling for Hoyer because he's a home grown Browns fan - and now player. Not many of you will believe it, but I'm a sentimental schmuck.
With that said, I'm behind whomever starts. I happen to believe it will be Hoyer based on his experience........... What does that mean? We've all seen and heard about the game "slowing down" as players get experience. Last year, in his 2 and 1/4 games or so, Hoyer proved to be decent. The team seemed to play better with him at qb.
On the other hand, that's just too little of a "starting qb history" to translate that into "he'll do great" this year, I understand that.
Hoyer may be far from a star quarterback......Johnny is an unknown. As we all have to do - I'll trust the coaches to make the right decisions. In other words, I don't want JM starting because he's JM - I want the best qb starting.
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Legend
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Legend
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nice post, arch.
Hey Vers... thanks for the catch on the stats. Just for my own info, do you (or any other Dawgs) remember the "game flow" as I described it? I don't have the game available to re-watch, so I'm going off memory here.
Input would be appreciated
Thanks to any and all in advance.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Tracking Johnny Manziel and Brian Hoyer: Charting Browns QB passes http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/08/tracking_johnny_manziel_and_br.htmlBy Dan Labbe, Northeast Ohio Media Group on August 08, 2014 at 6:00 AM, updated August 08, 2014 at 11:46 AM BEREA, Ohio -- The Browns are off on Friday and take the field for their first preseason game on Saturday night. What better time to update our quarterback chart? As part of our training camp coverage, we're charting how each quarterback is performing in camp so far. It's not meant to be an end-all evaluation. It's just a piece of the puzzle and you can fit it into your own evaluation however you see fit. Some disclaimers: We are only tracking passes thrown in 11-on-11. It's the closest simulation to real football in training camp practices. We're not noting dropped passes. We don't know if a wrong route was run. We're simply tracking complete/incomplete and estimating yardages. Quarterbacks aren't live right now. They haven't been hit. Unlike a regular season game -- or even a preseason game -- we don't have access to tape or live stats. We can't always tell if a receiver stayed in bounds or if there was a penalty and who it was against. We're eyeballing things. Since, for the most part, practices don't feature live tackling, yardages are mostly how far the ball traveled in the air and don't account for YAC. So, again, take this chart for what it is. It's divided into nine categories for each quarterback: left-center-right across the top, 20+ yards, 10-20 yards and 0-10 yards down the side. Hoyer in 11-on-11 Length Left Center Right 20 yds. plus 3-5 3-4 5-11 10-20 yds. 2-5 13-22 6-12 Under 10 yds. 22-33 11-19 10-19 Totals 27-43 27-45 21-42 Overall 75-130 Manziel in 11-on-11 Length Left Center Right 20 yds. plus 3-5 0-0 3-4 10-20 yds. 1-8 11-20 7-13 Under 10 yds. 5-17 7-10 20-27 Totals 9-30 18-30 30-44 Overall 57-104
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I think that Manziel is at least as mature as Ben Roethlisberger was as a rookie ..... and he went 15-1, and went to the AFC Championship game.
Two entirely different teams Ytown. Pittsburgh was loaded at receiver, RB, Oline, Dline, LB's.. They were about as close to only being a QB away. That's it.
I'm not sure you can say that about the Browns at this point.
I was speaking more to the issue of maturity than anything else.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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You were all over it, Clem. Here is the play by play of Hoyer's drives: [Btw: I put my own comment in on Gordon's drop, just so you know when it occurred.] Quote:
2-D.Carpenter kicks 71 yards from BUF 35 to CLE -6. 18-G.Little to CLE 8 for 14 yards (81-M.Easley).
1-10-CLE 8 (14:57) 26-W.McGahee left guard to CLE 10 for 2 yards (50-K.Alonso; 95-K.Williams).
2-8-CLE 10 (14:24) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete deep left to 12-J.Gordon. [THIS IS THE ONE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A SURE TD HAD JG CAUGHT IT.]
3-8-CLE 10 (14:19) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete deep right to 18-G.Little.
4-8-CLE 10 (14:14) (Punt formation) 5-S.Lanning punts 47 yards to BUF 43, Center-57-C.Yount. 35-J.Leonhard to CLE 32 for 25 yards (21-C.Owens).
Buffalo Bills at 14:01
1-10-CLE 32 (14:01) 22-F.Jackson right guard to CLE 30 for 2 yards (43-T.Ward).
2-8-CLE 30 (13:28) 11-T.Graham pass incomplete deep right to 13-S.Johnson. PENALTY on CLE-23-J.Haden, Defensive Pass Interference, 29 yards, enforced at CLE 30 - No Play. end around wide receiver pass
1-1-CLE 1 (13:21) 22-F.Jackson left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
2-D.Carpenter extra point is GOOD, Center-65-G.Sanborn, Holder-6-S.Powell.
BUF 7 CLE 0 Plays: 2 Possession: 0:45
Cleveland Browns at 13:16
2-D.Carpenter kicks 73 yards from BUF 35 to CLE -8. 18-G.Little to CLE 10 for 18 yards (15-C.Hogan).
1-10-CLE 10 (13:13) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass short right to 15-D.Bess ran ob at CLE 22 for 12 yards.
1-10-CLE 22 (12:45) 6-B.Hoyer pass short middle to 15-D.Bess to CLE 35 for 13 yards (25-D.Searcy).
1-10-CLE 35 (12:11) (Shotgun) 26-W.McGahee right guard to CLE 36 for 1 yard (99-M.Dareus).
2-9-CLE 36 (11:33) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer scrambles right end to CLE 47 for 11 yards (50-K.Alonso). CLE-6-B.Hoyer was injured during the play. He is Out.
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Legend
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Quote:
LOL..........you just contradicted yourself. You keep harping on all this crap that was in Hoyer's favor. Then you come back and say that things happen in a football game and you either win or lose them.
Actually, I didn't. Things happen in games. They happen in every game. Eventually, like as in over the course of a full season, things even out.
That does not mean that you look at a players performance irrespective of who he played against, and the conditions. I mean, if a CB, for example, covers AJ Green ..... or some street free agent, then that has to be taken into account as far as his results. A guy who gives up 6 catches for 75 yards and a TD against AJ Green would have had a far better game than the guy who gave up 4 catches for 50 yards and a TD against the "no name" free agent.
In the Mangini era, we beat the Patriots and Saints back to back. That didn't make Colt McCoy the savior of Cleveland football. It was 2 games, and you have to look at the specifics of the games in a small sample size, and be careful not to overemphasize what the player did in just a game or 2,
Further, there is an ebb and flow o every season, and the Vikings caught the Steelers in a 0-4 ebb. (well, IIRC, they made it 0-4 after playing the Steelers)
As far as the rest ..... I don't think that I ever said "you don't know basketball" to you. If you can find that, I'll certainly apologize, because that's not something I would say to someone...... at least not past the post preview point. I will admit to having said a lot of really nasty things to people ........ that I erased after I wrote them out and laughed about them ...... using them as a form of catharsis.lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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No offense to you, or to Mr Labbe, but this is about as worthless an endeavor as there is. Players, hopefully, progress as camp goes on. Further, there is a huge difference in playing with the 1s and 2s ...... and drop and incorrectly run routes are a consideration, at least to the coaches. Also, Manziel started out well behind, as he had no experience in an NFL offense, and had to learn to play under Center from scratch, and so on.
Using his "Raw numbers", Hoyer completed 57.7% of his passes, and Manziel 54.8%. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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