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Thanks for the article. Joe is a true professional. It's unreal that he has never missed a snap in 7 years. Dang!!! It boggles my mind that many Brown's fans bad-mouth the guy or don't give him the credit he deserves. They talk about the one sack he gave up and fail to notice that he gets ZERO help while our RT has a TE helping on every play and even gets help from a RB on many plays. But if Joe gives up one sack or one "perceived" pressure, than he is overrated. I was looking up articles yesterday and reading some of the comments in response to a particular article, and this one guy is going off about how Joe Thomas sucks. He said that Joe gave up the sacks that caused Holcomb and Seneca Wallace to get hurt in the same game. Read that again.............Holcomb and Seneca Wallace. I just thought this fit nicely since some of us are discussing the dumb things fans say. 
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This 30 or 31 year old Anthony Armstrong keeps popping up. So does Charles Johnson. Can one of these, or someone else, step up for when we don't have our #1 WR? I was skeptic about our WR core minus Josh, but now it's starting to slowly build some sort of faith/hope. Hawkins is beast mode it seems, and Nate and Miles are also bringing out some positive stories thus far from camp (given it's only day three).
We will see. WR's is what I am paying most attention to it seems.
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Cleveland Browns ‏@Browns 2m
NEWS: Browns have signed WR Marlon Moore.
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot 59s
#Browns announce they've signed 5 yr veteran WR Marlon Moore, 43 games, two starts, played in 6 gms with 49ers in '13, 8 with Dolphins.
camp fodder lol.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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It would be a great story if we find a diamond in the rough. We have done it before, Josh Cribbs, Lehigh Bodden. Other teams have found them. Let's hope we can find one or two this year at WR.
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I thought the most interesting point of practice has yet to be mentioned. Gilkey apparently is taking all the first team reps at RG. mean offensive line when Joe is the nice guy out there lol.
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Gilkey apparently is taking all the first team reps at RG. mean offensive line when Joe is the nice guy out there lol.
I like it. Gilkey was raw last year, and I believe was from a smaller school. But the guy is a beast. If he continues to develop, we definately could have one mean ass OLine.
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Gilkey apparently is taking all the first team reps at RG. mean offensive line when Joe is the nice guy out there lol.
I like it. Gilkey was raw last year, and I believe was from a smaller school. But the guy is a beast. If he continues to develop, we definately could have one mean ass OLine.
thought I read somewhere he was playing left guard today and the rookie was playing right?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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But if Joe gives up one sack or one "perceived" pressure, than he is overrated.
That stuff comes from the 85%'ers
#gmstrong
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I seem to have read that Bitonio was at left guard most of the time and Greco on the right. I believe they are moving them around though, so anything is possible. I like the fact that we have some flexability, and some young guys that seem up to the task. I'm curious how Swartz (spelling) will look with a competent player next to him. This zone blocking scheme should be fun to watch.
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But if Joe gives up one sack or one "perceived" pressure, than he is overrated.
That stuff comes from the 85%'ers
or people that see he is slowing down some and wonder what happens after jt. 
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I thought the most interesting point of practice has yet to be mentioned. Gilkey apparently is taking all the first team reps at RG. mean offensive line when Joe is the nice guy out there lol.
Gilkey is a good one to have. Not surprised that they let Lauvao go (I always thought he was garbage) and Gilkey got some reps at the end of the season last year. He should have been starting all along there but they didn't want to put a rookie RG next to a 2nd year RT.
But, I always liked Gilkey. Remembering last off-season draft, I was drafting for Oakland and I had been away, unable to post who I would take and someone recommended Gilkey. He just happened to be the guy that I was going to take if he was there.  I loved the pick (even selecting for Oakland) and would have taken him for the Browns too. I like the kid and he's going to be a good one for years to come.
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Gilkey apparently is taking all the first team reps at RG. mean offensive line when Joe is the nice guy out there lol.
I like it. Gilkey was raw last year, and I believe was from a smaller school. But the guy is a beast. If he continues to develop, we definately could have one mean ass OLine.
Gilkey is from Chadron State in Nebraska. It's a Division II school. Same level as Lindenwood, where Pierre Desir went to school.
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There are 2 really good videos up on http://www.cleveland.com/browns/#/0 the 3rd day TC and the the Baldinger videos are really good. I thought Manziel's kirksey pick was just a bad throw but man, that was a fantastic catch. He had his man covered slipped off the coverage into the passing lane and caught a ball that was designed to go another 15 yards down the field. impressive.
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Gilkey apparently is taking all the first team reps at RG. mean offensive line when Joe is the nice guy out there lol.
I like it. Gilkey was raw last year, and I believe was from a smaller school. But the guy is a beast. If he continues to develop, we definately could have one mean ass OLine.
Gilkey is from Chadron State in Nebraska. It's a Division II school. Same level as Lindenwood, where Pierre Desir went to school.
And Armonty Bryant (East Central U in Oklahoma).
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Hadn't seen this posted
Mike Pettine sets urgent tempo for Cleveland Browns’ training camp
Vic Carucci Senior Editor @viccarucci Facebook
Much quicker, more aggressive practice pace than last year.
The first noticeable difference about the Cleveland Browns’ training camp – besides people flying along the zip lines adjacent to the practice fields – is the tempo.
It is much quicker than last summer. More urgent. More aggressive.
This is true on both sides of the ball, but it shows up the most on defense.
No surprise there.
With Mike Pettine as head coach, and the Browns’ defense was bound to reflect the same edgy, in-your-face style that the defenses he guided for the Buffalo Bills and New York Jets displayed. And it has. Defenders consistently swarm to the ball, constantly look to strip it free, and frequently jaw with offensive players … with defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil often leading the jawing when he isn’t chest bumping with one of the members of his unit.
At times, such as on Sunday, the edginess boils over into an altercation between players. Pettine loves the fire, but doesn’t want it to get out of control. Fighting in practice is one thing; fighting in a game leads to penalties.
Still, a year ago, Browns’ practices didn’t feel anywhere near as intense. There wasn’t the heightened level of competition that has been present since the first workout began on Saturday morning.
That, too, stems from Pettine and general manager Ray Farmer. The competitive tone they promised would permeate throughout the team back in February, when the Pettine-Farmer duo were put in place to lead the franchise, has quickly proven to be much more than lip service.
After being put through an ultra-challenging conditioning test on Friday, which was more than a few players could handle, the squad has gone through two highly spirited practices that gave the distinct impression that many jobs are up for grabs -- and players are doing all they can to grab for them.
That has been especially true at wide receiver, where everyone from the top to the bottom of the depth chart looks to outdo each other on every pass play. And at running back, where running hard is not optional. And at cornerback and at linebacker and on the defensive line.
The environment figures to do plenty to get the Browns ready for the real thing.
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Gilkey apparently is taking all the first team reps at RG. mean offensive line when Joe is the nice guy out there lol.
I like it. Gilkey was raw last year, and I believe was from a smaller school. But the guy is a beast. If he continues to develop, we definately could have one mean ass OLine.
Gilkey is from Chadron State in Nebraska. It's a Division II school. Same level as Lindenwood, where Pierre Desir went to school.
And Armonty Bryant (East Central U in Oklahoma).
True. Armonty Bryant too. Although, to be fair Armonty Bryant went to East Central because of legal issues. Gilkey and Desir chose the smaller schools for personal reasons not related to legal issues.
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Did you happen to see this Charles Johnson they keep saying might be special (paraphrasing of course)
He was held out of practice today.
Pettine said he doesn't want WRs working 5 days in a row - I don't know where its posted, but I read it in his press conference notes
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Did you happen to see this Charles Johnson they keep saying might be special (paraphrasing of course)
He was held out of practice today.
Pettine said he doesn't want WRs working 5 days in a row - I don't know where its posted, but I read it in his press conference notes
yea. I think it is a select few he wants battle for starter spot. lol
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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j/c
I haven't been to camp, have only seen some highlight videos on the main site.
That being said, I'm seeing some underthrown deep balls. And, when I see Buster Skrine closing fast on those deep balls, I think he'd get called for interference on every one.
That being said, I'm talking like 2 or 3 passes, so maybe every other one has been on the money. I like all the hype about Skrine improving but if it's anything like last year, he's good for about a dozen PI calls a game.
And I can't stand the underthrown deep balls. Weeden had the arm for it and could really bomb them. Unfortunately, his accuracy wasn't all that great. Might as well have underthrown them.
I just hope it's an anomaly. Looking forward to game speed.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I like all the hype about Skrine improving but if it's anything like last year, he's good for about a dozen PI calls a game.
Exaggerate much?
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From what I can find, Skrine had 3 DPI calls last year. (and we had 10 as a team)
I do think that Skrine gets caught sometimes in a bad position when forced into covering receivers who are much, much bigger than him. Because of his size, he has to be perfect in his technique almost every time, and even then he can be beat over the top. If he is able to slide to the slot, he will be much more able to cover receivers who are more in his wheelhouse.
It seems to be that Skrine was criticized last year in camp, with people thinking that he would be a DPI penalty waiting to happen then too. I don't know if you are seeing what people saw then .... but he managed to turn in a solid year last year. Hopefully that will be the case again.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Buster came into the NFL high on talent, short on size, and lacking in confidence when it came to covering elite NFL wide receivers. The kid is still learning how to cover in the NFL but nobody and I mean nobody is going to outrun him. He is a work in progress, and nobody is going to outwork the kid in camp. I hope he ends up covering the slot receiver because that means Gilbert has beat him out for the number 2 CB position and it also means we will have one of the best backfield combinations in the NFL 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Buster came into the NFL high on talent, short on size, and lacking in confidence when it came to covering elite NFL wide receivers. The kid is still learning how to cover in the NFL but nobody and I mean nobody is going to outrun him. He is a work in progress, and nobody is going to outwork the kid in camp. I hope he ends up covering the slot receiver because that means Gilbert has beat him out for the number 2 CB position and it also means we will have one of the best backfield combinations in the NFL
 
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
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I like all the hype about Skrine improving but if it's anything like last year, he's good for about a dozen PI calls a game.
Exaggerate much?
I have never exaggerated, ever. You exaggerate about a million times. 
I hope you guys are right. I'm sure I'm just remembering a couple PI calls and focusing on that instead of all the good things. As a Browns fan, it's kind of in my DNA to expect that everything will turn to crap.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Buster came into the NFL high on talent, short on size, and lacking in confidence when it came to covering elite NFL wide receivers. The kid is still learning how to cover in the NFL but nobody and I mean nobody is going to outrun him. He is a work in progress, and nobody is going to outwork the kid in camp. I hope he ends up covering the slot receiver because that means Gilbert has beat him out for the number 2 CB position and it also means we will have one of the best backfield combinations in the NFL
+1
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Based on football logic, Brian Hoyer should remain Cleveland Browns’ starter Vic Carucci Senior Editor @viccarucci Facebook So far, the battle for the Cleveland Browns’ starting quarterback job is shaping up exactly as football logic suggested it would. The more experienced guy, Brian Hoyer, is looking more experienced. The less experienced guy, Johnny Manziel, is looking less experienced. That’s the football logic. The media logic has a different take. The media logic seems to be suggesting that, because he was a first-round draft pick and created tremendous excitement on the field in college and is arguably the most recognizable name/face in all of football, Manziel will be the Browns’ starter for the Sept. 7 season-opener at Pittsburgh. There is no reason to wait, goes the common refrain of those who talk and write about sports for a living, not to mention others who simply love to watch. Let’s see what Johnny Football can do now! But the first few days of practice at the Browns’ training camp have done plenty to confirm the football perspective on this highly anticipated and well-documented quarterback competition. In everything he does, Hoyer simply looks more ready to start. Hoyer is more consistently accurate with his throws and general decision-making. He shows greater command in the huddle and at the line of scrimmage. He gets each play from offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan in the headset in his helmet, and cleanly delivers it to the rest of the offense. Everything generally runs smoother and more efficiently when Hoyer is at quarterback, which is a big part of the reason he has been working with the starting offense since the first training-camp practice on Saturday. Not so much with Manziel. He tends to struggle with the basic communication of plays to the rest of the offense, which is understandable because the language is much longer and more complex than what he dealt with at Texas A&M. He is working under center, which is a dramatic switch from his exclusively being in shotgun with the Aggies. Although Manziel proved himself to be a tremendous leader in college, he has not demonstrated much of a commanding presence so far because he is too concerned with making sure he gets the details of his own job right before he can show he has a grasp of the offense on a macro level. When applying football logic, it is clear that the job should belong to Hoyer when the regular season begins. That does not mean that Manziel has no chance to do something in the meantime to make an overwhelming football case that the job should be his from the outset. But the reality is that he has a fairly limited amount of time to make that happen, based on the considerable distance he needs to cover to close the gap with Hoyer and the third-week-of-the-preseason timeframe that coach Mike Pettine has established to name a starter. The reality also is this: if the mostly impressive performance Hoyer displayed in two full games last year and what he has shown through the offseason and early in training camp are a true indication of what he will do this season, Browns fans should want him to be the starter indefinitely. If, as many have suggested, Manziel should become the starter at least three or four games into the schedule, that means the Browns’ season will have gone sideways – as it too often has in the early stages of previous seasons. The ideal scenario is for the team to get off to a strong start, with Hoyer doing his part to keep the offense on the rails, and for no change to be necessary for the starting quarterback job. Manziel will benefit greatly from watching and learning, and ultimately, his time will come to be the No. 1 guy. If it happens sooner, it happens sooner. But if it doesn’t, and if there is any sort of debate over when he does start because Hoyer is performing well, that is a GREAT problem for the Browns. Link
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Buster is one of my favorite players on the team. He had good base skills, and he is improving. He has tons of speed, and he's got great closing speed. I still think he's a much better nickel than corner, and if Gilbert steps up and wins the starting corner, he'll be dangerous in double coverage packages. His only real problem is his size.
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Vic Carucci Senior Editor @viccarucci Facebook
Much quicker, more aggressive practice pace than last year.
I think this very same "journalist" wrote this very same article last year. LOL
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Buster came into the NFL high on talent, short on size, and lacking in confidence when it came to covering elite NFL wide receivers. The kid is still learning how to cover in the NFL but nobody and I mean nobody is going to outrun him. He is a work in progress, and nobody is going to outwork the kid in camp. I hope he ends up covering the slot receiver because that means Gilbert has beat him out for the number 2 CB position and it also means we will have one of the best backfield combinations in the NFL
Excellent post.
I would like to add that he did not have a lot of PI calls last year. It was the year before that when he racked up too many.
The kid grew by leaps and bounds last year. He's young. He was raw. Way too early to close the book on the kid.
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Quote:
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Vic Carucci Senior Editor @viccarucci Facebook
Much quicker, more aggressive practice pace than last year.
I think this very same "journalist" wrote this very same article last year. LOL
Yeah... I was like "where have I heard his before?"
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j/c
I was at camp today. A few random thoughts...
I love Johnny-Mania but....Hoyer is going to start. I can't even see ANY competition right now. JFF has a long way to go. He has flashes but Hoyer is the better QB. That's ok with me...let JFF sit and learn for a while and be a better QB in the long run. Nothing but his ego will be hurt. I have more faith in Hoyer now than ever.
Thx for the update!
I agree Hoyer should start. Having been at camp, do you think Manziel will come in certain situations or do you see him as an "all or none" kind of guy. (ie, does it seem like he has to get in the flow of the game to be successful, or he can he strike like lightning on certain plays designed for him?) I know that is a lot to ask from one practice, just trying to get a glimmer of an idea of how he will play and what to watch for in pre-season.
i usually go to camp, but it's hard this year because of the sell outs, so i'll rely on you guys.
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My problem with using Manziel as a situational or package QB is this... what is he going to do? The teams that have had any success at all when swapping out QBs did so because those QBs have different skill sets... Manziel is a decent pocket passer but he's obviously behind Hoyer in that respect right now.. he's a superior runner but with his frame, do we really want to bring him in once in a while for a designed run? And if you bring him in and drop him into the pocket, the defense has to be betting 10:1 that he is going to take off... I guess I just don't see what is gained (other than just getting him on the field for some experience) by putting him in these packages, whatever they look like.
yebat' Putin
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j/c
I was at camp today. A few random thoughts...
I love Johnny-Mania but....Hoyer is going to start. I can't even see ANY competition right now. JFF has a long way to go. He has flashes but Hoyer is the better QB. That's ok with me...let JFF sit and learn for a while and be a better QB in the long run. Nothing but his ego will be hurt. I have more faith in Hoyer now than ever.
Thx for the update!
I agree Hoyer should start. Having been at camp, do you think Manziel will come in certain situations or do you see him as an "all or none" kind of guy. (ie, does it seem like he has to get in the flow of the game to be successful, or he can he strike like lightning on certain plays designed for him?) I know that is a lot to ask from one practice, just trying to get a glimmer of an idea of how he will play and what to watch for in pre-season.
i usually go to camp, but it's hard this year because of the sell outs, so i'll rely on you guys.
I just don't see them using him in any sort of odd-ball packages or trickery. It's all or nothing. I honestly believe this is Hoyer's team and will be until he either completely falls apart or gets hurt. Manziel will get his chance in the long run but he HAS to learn more first.
You know the old saying about how the most popular player on a team is the Backup QB? Man, will that be taken to a new level this year....
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*In Baker we trust*
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Vic Carucci Senior Editor @viccarucci Facebook
Much quicker, more aggressive practice pace than last year.
I think this very same "journalist" wrote this very same article last year. LOL
Yeah... I was like "where have I heard his before?"
heheh, yup... I thought the same thing.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Vic Carruci is pure Browns PR. We could be fielding a team full of kids from Pop Warner and he'd spin it into having a young, hungry team with loads of enthusiasm and long term potential.
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Absolutely, that's his job - he's the official mouthpiece of the organization in the printed media world. Nothing wrong with that at all, but knowing that can perhaps give a little insight into what the organization thinks. If he's writing a story that wants to play up Hoyer and temper enthusiasm over Manziel, then it's safe to assume that the front office wants to stop Johnny Mania from gathering any steam before the rest of the media can hype it up. It also can be assumed that it wants the casual follower that doesn't hang on every bit of news - like we do - to know that there is a really valid reason that they should not expect, and also not hope, to see JF leading the team onto the field early this season.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Absolutely, that's his job - he's the official mouthpiece of the organization in the printed media world. Nothing wrong with that at all, but knowing that can perhaps give a little insight into what the organization thinks. If he's writing a story that wants to play up Hoyer and temper enthusiasm over Manziel, then it's safe to assume that the front office wants to stop Johnny Mania from gathering any steam before the rest of the media can hype it up. It also can be assumed that it wants the casual follower that doesn't hang on every bit of news - like we do - to know that there is a really valid reason that they should not expect, and also not hope, to see JF leading the team onto the field early this season.
And Carucci is the perfect guy to do it. He's been around the NFL forever, has covered multiple teams, and worked for NFL.com. Besides his experience, his connections in the league are wide and he can usually get anyone he wants to on the radio for his daily show w/ Zegura.
He's an asset, no doubt, regardless what he spins.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Kind of makes me think the "decision" has already been made.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
There's not really a decision to be made at this point in time. Manziel would have to play perfect football from here on out, and then he would have to prove that he is a far superior option over Hoyer. Doubt that happens between now and August 19th. There's no deciding this non-decision. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959 |
Just clicking
So I was watching the NFL Network starting at Noon today. First team they talked about was the Browns. Apparently there was a few fights that broke out. Nothing major. Happens every year.
They spoke about how much better Hoyer looks than Manziel and they feel as if that's kind of expected at this point.
One of the three commentators asked the other two a question that I thought might be fun to talk about.
The Set up:
Since Camp and Pre Season is so vanilla defensively, pure athleticism stands out more. Manziel is clearly the better of the two QB's in terms of being a Pure Athlete. So, Manziel could look much better in camp and Preseason and still not be the man come the first real game.
The Question(s):
Is it possible that fans will think that Manziel is the better starter based on his performance in Pre Season games? And will that effect the powers that make that decision?
The other two commentators felt that the fans could be tricked into believing he's the better of the two, but neither felt the coaching staff would fall for that.
What's your thoughts?
I'd like to believe that the Coaching staff takes everything into consideration.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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