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Browns training camp snapshot: Day 4 Lineup updates: Inside linebacker Zac Diles received reps with the first-team defense while veteran Karlos Dansby took the day off to rest. Highs and lows: The Browns ended practice with a competition between the offense and defense. The offense had to gain 20 yards to win. The defense simply had to get a stop. It was best of five, and the winners would get to wear orange jerseys during Thursday’s practice. “The defense won three out of the first four,” coach Mike Pettine said. Players on the losing side are eager for a rematch. “I’m really mad that we lost that period,” wide receiver Anthony Armstrong said. “When you get to compete for something, it kind of reenergizes you and we all thrive on competition. We’re going to get it back.” ... The defense ruled the practice in general. In team drills, quarterback Brian Hoyer worked exclusively with the first-string offense and completed 5-of-11 passes with an interception (picked off by rookie cornerback Justin Gilbert). Rookie Johnny Manziel toiled with the second unit and completed 1-of-8 passes with two interceptions (picked off by safeties Jordan Poyer and Josh Aubrey) in 11-on-11 sessions. ... Free safety Tashaun Gipson also intercepted a pass from Hoyer in a seven-on-seven drill. ... According to the Browns, 3,503 fans attended practice. Injuries: Tight end Gary Barnidge returned to practice after missing the first three sessions of camp. He was placed on the non-football injury list because he couldn’t finish his conditioning test Friday. “It had nothing to do with conditioning-wise, just something to do with heat-wise,” he said. “Something happened and I just couldn’t [keep going]. I was out of it.” ... Wide receivers Travis Benjamin and Charles Johnson (torn ACLs last year) returned to action after taking the previous day off to rest. Wednesday’s schedule: Players are off. The next practice is scheduled to run from 9:30 a.m.-12:10 p.m. Thursday. — Nate Ulrich http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns-training-camp-snapshot-day-4-1.508821
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The defense ruled the practice in general. In team drills, quarterback Brian Hoyer worked exclusively with the first-string offense and completed 5-of-11 passes with an interception (picked off by rookie cornerback Justin Gilbert). Rookie Johnny Manziel toiled with the second unit and completed 1-of-8 passes with two interceptions (picked off by safeties Jordan Poyer and Josh Aubrey) in 11-on-11 sessions. ... Free safety Tashaun Gipson also intercepted a pass from Hoyer in a seven-on-seven drill.
Wow!
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Manziel was 1 for 8 today? wow...
Can't wait til' preseason. I wanna see this dude in action.
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Manziel was 1 for 8 today? wow...
Can't wait til' preseason. I wanna see this dude in action.
From what I read he threw away at least 2 balls. Also one of the picks may have been from a receiver running a wrong route.
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Hoyer's first pass a beauty to Austin on an out in 11v11. He was 1 of 2. Manziel threw both passes out of bounds under pressure. Tom Reed ‏@treed1919 In 11v11, Gilbert picks off long pass from Hoyer. Then Aubrey picks off Manziel. Receiver might have run wrong route. No one in area. https://twitter.com/treed1919/status/494145877624094720
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Good news. I never understood why Horton put Taylor there last year. I was almost positive that Taylor was going to play DE in that defense and Reubin would be the NT, but it never materialized.
My thoughts exactly. I simply don't understand why many on this board feel like Rubin is the odd man out. His hustle, stamina, toughness, stats and mentality are better than Big Phil's. At this point, I'd rather Phil walk and we extend Rubin.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I thought we might let Reubin go, but only because of the age/contract issue. I'm glad this FO and coaching staff realizes that he is a good player. Kudos to them. 
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I feel like his contract is fair, but he's only 2 years older than Big Phil IIRC.
Last edited by dawglover05; 07/29/14 09:55 PM.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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There was no real reason to worry. We had cap room, he has one year left on his contract, and is only 28.
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Guys, w/all due respect.......there was quite a bit of talk about the Browns perhaps letting Reubin go. Man, I just gave the FO a compliment. Don't you understand the beauty of that?  You see, you either have to bad-mouth every move they make or adore every move they make. You never can be objective and judge each move individually. That would be against board rules.  Btw.............Taylor is younger than Reubin.
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My bad. I screwed up my wording. I meant to say only 2 years older. I heard the news as well, but I just couldn't make sense out of it.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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j/c
Drawing more conclusions from very little evidence (hey, that's all I've got), but it seems like I've seen several highlights of Hoyer underthrowing deep balls. Hopefully that's not going to be a problem.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Guys, w/all due respect.......there was quite a bit of talk about the Browns perhaps letting Reubin go.
when was this?
just by random people or from people at the Browns?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Speculation many people were mentioning was that Billy Winn would win the starters job and the Browns wouldn't keep him as a backup at his large cap number. There were a few articles about it by media of various credibility standing.
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Teams have inquired about Rubin, and I would not have been surprised at all if he had been a draft day trade. Interior DL is our greatest strength and we have quality depth and some feel its a surplus especially when Winn and Taylor were both healthy. Primary suspects in a trade were the Bears, Eagles and boys.
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j/c
Drawing more conclusions from very little evidence (hey, that's all I've got), but it seems like I've seen several highlights of Hoyer underthrowing deep balls. Hopefully that's not going to be a problem.
Hoyer isn't a long ball guy. I imagine they are using this time to test out what his real range of accurate passing is. I mean if he can only throw 40 yard passes then you don't want to have passes longer than that in the playbook. I have no idea what distance he can throw accurately, just saying.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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There was a lot of talk, but some of us said all along that I saw no way they would let Rubin go for nothing. If someone made an unreasonably good offer, then OK ...... but not for less. That would be senseless. He has been a very good player for us, and a great leader by example. He is a sideline to sideline, interior/exterior lineman ..... and that is extremely rare.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think Rubin is the most underrated player on the team and they'd be foolish to let him go. I'd let Taylor go before Rubin.
They have a call in show on the NFL network, and they asked who the most underrated player on your favorite team is. I called in and got on the air and said that Rubin was. Those jokers (Craig and Alex) cut me off and said, get ready for this......Joe Thomas. I started going off about how in the hell somebody that made 7 straight pro bowls can be underrated and they hung up on me.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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You called in? That was your only mistake, as far as I can tell. How many IQ points did you lose after hearing their response? 'Stupid' can be contagious, you know- Joe Thomas? Underrated?  Those guys should spend a week talking football on this board. No- check that... their butts would get worn out from the daily whoopins they'd take...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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I believe you could add the Pats to the list. I have seen a couple of articles where Bill B has called him special.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I don't know Joe could still be considered underrated. I mean some people are still not convinced he is the best LT to ever play the game...I mean what idiots =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I don't know if you simply misunderstand what I say or if you have a great gift at spinning words to start a debate that should occur.
I remember the conversations. I have always been pro-Reubin. Always. My intent wasn't to knock Reubin in this post, but instead, it was to give credit to our new coaching staff for understanding his value and for allowing him to play at NT, where I think he will be more effective than Taylor because he is a lot more disciplined and in better shape.
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Quote:
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Charlie Casserly said the Browns QB would be in next years draft. He wasn't impressed with either guy today for what its worth.
Well given that he's the QB evaluator that brought us both David Carr and Heath Shuler, we're truly screwed.
After 2 hours, Casserly has made that judgement? What a nut job, talking aboluit living off your past glory... 
Casserly sucks... There is a reason these worthless, no-good GMs go to the NFL Network to be an analyst and are never seen again in team jobs....Oh, wait...
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Hoyer isn't a long ball guy. I imagine they are using this time to test out what his real range of accurate passing is. I mean if he can only throw 40 yard passes then you don't want to have passes longer than that in the playbook. I have no idea what distance he can throw accurately, just saying.
Yeah, but we have to be able to utilize the long ball at times, especially with a guy like Gordon who can beat people and guys like Benjamin who can straight fly. The key would be Hoyer recognizing it early enough to get the ball out early so he isn't underthrowing.
That's one advantage he has is that he diagnoses plays pretty quickly and, hopefully, can see what needs to be done quickly. He isn't going to have a cannon arm, so that's all he can do.
That being said, I remember the Dolphins game last year when Tannehill simply carved up our defense with 8 yard down-and-outs to Hartline. It was maddening because everyone knew what was happening, but we couldn't stop it.
I like long plays like the rest of us, but I'll take 7 or 8 yards a pop that lead to TDs and nice long TD drives.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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As far as the better athletes looking better in preseason, I don't think that applies for QBs.
I think it very much applies when you have a guy like Manziel vs just about anyone except the very best (Manning or Brady types)
In fact, that's exactly what they were discussing on the NFL Network and in particular the competition between Manziel and Hoyer.
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Quote:
Charlie Casserly said the Browns QB would be in next years draft. He wasn't impressed with either guy today for what its worth.
Well given that he's the QB evaluator that brought us both David Carr and Heath Shuler, we're truly screwed.
Oh lord, I had forgotten that LOL Good Catch Not the Guy I want picking my QB..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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I simply made a statement.
Nothing more.
I seem to recall that you and I actually had similar positions regarding Rubin and Taylor.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
Hoyer isn't a long ball guy. I imagine they are using this time to test out what his real range of accurate passing is. I mean if he can only throw 40 yard passes then you don't want to have passes longer than that in the playbook. I have no idea what distance he can throw accurately, just saying.
Yeah, but we have to be able to utilize the long ball at times, especially with a guy like Gordon who can beat people and guys like Benjamin who can straight fly. The key would be Hoyer recognizing it early enough to get the ball out early so he isn't underthrowing.
That's one advantage he has is that he diagnoses plays pretty quickly and, hopefully, can see what needs to be done quickly. He isn't going to have a cannon arm, so that's all he can do.
That being said, I remember the Dolphins game last year when Tannehill simply carved up our defense with 8 yard down-and-outs to Hartline. It was maddening because everyone knew what was happening, but we couldn't stop it.
I like long plays like the rest of us, but I'll take 7 or 8 yards a pop that lead to TDs and nice long TD drives.
I think we both agree a lot on this one. In my idea of a perfect offense the playbook has all passes 5 to 30 yards on 95% of the passes. Then once in a while you throw that long deep spiral once you notice they have stopped looking for it. I wan't the ball gone in 3 seconds because that helps to eliminate sacks. Really takes a lot of trust between the QB and WRs though because it relies on anticipation.
Think about why 40 yard times are so important. If you can run 40 yards in 4.3 seconds then you should be able to get 15 to 20 yards downfield in 3 seconds even with bumps and such. If the Qb is going deep and throws it at 3 seconds and has air time of say 2 to 3 seconds then your WR should make it 50-60 yards. IF the QB has a weaker arm like hoyer then to make up for it he has to throw blind at 2 seconds and trust his wr will be where he is supposed to be.
Still he should be able to make 5-15 yard passes all day long very accurately and I have a feeling this offense will surprise us. I do think his lack of arm strength will be why Manziel or whoever else we end up with replaces him.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Quote:
Quote:
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Charlie Casserly said the Browns QB would be in next years draft. He wasn't impressed with either guy today for what its worth.
Well given that he's the QB evaluator that brought us both David Carr and Heath Shuler, we're truly screwed.
Oh lord, I had forgotten that LOL Good Catch Not the Guy I want picking my QB..
To be fair if you watch his video he is not really dissing them that much. With Manziel he says its too early to tell. With Hoyer he thinks is fine but lacks the physical tools for the long haul. IMHO he is right in that they are both mediocre QB's. We might very well be drafting a QB next season in the top 5. We had a weak QB class this draft so I would not hold it against them to be honest.
I think if Hoyer does a good job as a game manager type QB though they might choose to stick with him a bit. I think Manziel is one of those picks the FO think can't hurt and was made because they were unsure about Hoyer like all of the rest of us are.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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j/c:
So, let me get this straight. Casserly sucks and is a football moron because he was a former GM in the NFL, but the guys on this board who have zero NFL experience are football geniuses?
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No I was alluding to the fact he is making the determination after one 2 hour practice that the browns will be taking a QB with their first pick in the next draft.
He said that neither Hoyer or Manziel had what it took to be a top notch NFL qb... now that may very well be true... but to make that determination after one practice is absurd no matter what his pedigree.
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j/c:
So, let me get this straight. Casserly sucks and is a football moron because he was a former GM in the NFL, but the guys on this board who have zero NFL experience are football geniuses?
Well, not EVERYONE on this board is a football genius. I mean, I know I am and a couple other people (GMDawg, CoachB, Chunk Ironchest, et al). But not everyone.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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j/c:
So, let me get this straight. Casserly sucks and is a football moron because he was a former GM in the NFL, but the guys on this board who have zero NFL experience are football geniuses?
Don't forget, "if you listen to the fans, you will be sitting with them." 
GO BROWNS!
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Yeah man he was like GONE in a blur. That big man can move!
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I think we both agree a lot on this one. In my idea of a perfect offense the playbook has all passes 5 to 30 yards on 95% of the passes. Then once in a while you throw that long deep spiral once you notice they have stopped looking for it. I wan't the ball gone in 3 seconds because that helps to eliminate sacks. Really takes a lot of trust between the QB and WRs though because it relies on anticipation.
Think about why 40 yard times are so important. If you can run 40 yards in 4.3 seconds then you should be able to get 15 to 20 yards downfield in 3 seconds even with bumps and such. If the Qb is going deep and throws it at 3 seconds and has air time of say 2 to 3 seconds then your WR should make it 50-60 yards. IF the QB has a weaker arm like hoyer then to make up for it he has to throw blind at 2 seconds and trust his wr will be where he is supposed to be.
Still he should be able to make 5-15 yard passes all day long very accurately and I have a feeling this offense will surprise us. I do think his lack of arm strength will be why Manziel or whoever else we end up with replaces him.
Also plays where they run to the sidelines need to be accounted for as well. Let's say you throw the ball from the 10 to the 30, but you're on the right hash and are throwing it to the left sideline. I mean, how far is that throw vs a straight line 40 yard pass? That might have less to do with a 40 yard time, but that's one of the reasons why you want a QB with such a powerful arm. You throw the ball blind in that direction and the defense can start moving to the ball before the receiver is into his route.
That's one of the main benefits of the arm strength that a 40 yard time means less for. You can barely take a drop, throw the ball 40 yards and the wide receiver still is there to make a play (hopefully). That kind of stuff killed Colt McCoy. He was playing with a small field and was limited. That and his lack of ability leading receivers
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Our two best QB's since Otto have been Sipe and Kosar. Neither had a strong arm but both were dead on accurate and threw a great long ball. Was it a bullet...... nope.... but if was laid out just where it had to be.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Sipe and Kosar threw with anticipation. That was one of the problems with Anderson and Weeden. They waited until they saw an open receiver then tried to throw the ball and the window would close rather than throwing to a covered receiver about to hit his break and having the ball arrive when he got open. Of course they had other issues too.
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