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Quote:
jc...
Everyone assumes Hoyer is over his ACL injury and ready to go...was that the case with RGIII and his injury?
I've heard that it takes two years to fully recuperate from a knee surgery...it's only been like 10 months for Hoyer. He may be able to knock off the rust quicker that 2 yrs that it takes some.. Hoyer might need a bit longer than 2 weeks.
Exactly. Just a Johnny Football might need more than 2 weeks to beat out a guy who has been a pro for 3-4 years.
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2014 Browns training camp snapshot: Day 7 — Family Day scrimmage in Akron Most Valuable Player: Undrafted rookie defensive lineman Jacobbi McDaniel. After inside linebacker Craig Robertson fumbled on an interception return, McDaniel grabbed the ball and rumbled into the end zone for a touchdown in 11-on-11 action. In a red-zone drill, McDaniel batted Brian Hoyer’s pass near the line of scrimmage, allowing outside linebacker Barkevious Mingo to intercept it and return it nearly 50 yards. “The guy’s going to be a stud,” Mingo said of the 6-foot, 293-pound McDaniel. “He’s wreaking havoc on the line. He can just get his hands on balls. What more can you ask for?” Lineup updates: With free safety Tashaun Gipson sitting out with a sprained left knee, Jordan Poyer took his place on the first-team defense. Veteran safety Jim Leonhard played with the first unit in the nickel package. ... After Pro Bowl tight end Jordan Cameron banged his shoulder during the first series and sat out the rest of the scrimmage as a precaution, Jim Dray filled his spot on the first-team offense. ... John Greco and Garrett Gilkey continued to rotate at right guard with the first-team offense. Highs and lows: Undrafted rookie quarterback Connor Shaw threw two interceptions. Inside linebacker Zac Diles tipped one of the passes to himself, caught it and returned it for a touchdown. Inside linebacker Craig Robertson dived to intercept another pass from Shaw that bounced off an offensive lineman. Robertson fumbled during the return, and that’s when McDaniel scooped and scored. ... Rookie running back Terrance West had a 14-yard run. ... In regular 11-on-11 sessions, wide receiver Miles Austin had three catches for 38 yards, including a 19-yard pass from Brian Hoyer. Austin also added another reception for 11 yards in a red-zone period. ... Kicker Billy Cundiff made all three field-goal attempts (42, 53 and 28 yards). ... Slot receiver Andrew Hawkins committed a false-start penalty and had just one catch for a loss of 3 yards. Injuries: Inside linebackers Tank Carder (foot) and Darius Eubanks (shoulder), wide receiver Chandler Jones (hamstring) and offensive linemen Randall Harris (knee) and Martin Wallace did not participate in the scrimmage. ... Nose tackle Phil Taylor (hamstring) and offensive lineman Nate McDonald (wrist) didn’t either because they remain on the non-football injury list. Sunday’s schedule: Players are off. The next practice is scheduled to run from 9:30 a.m.-12:10 p.m. Monday at the team’s headquarters in Berea. — Nate Ulrich http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/2014-b...-akron-1.510083
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I wonder if we any team would be willing to trade a decent WR for Phil Taylor? Probably not, but you never know.
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I wouldn't be opposed to trading Taylor for a good #2 receiver. I doubt anyone would trade us a low end #1 or higher for him.
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D-lineman should have more value than WRs, but I agree w/you because I just think that most people on this board overrate what Taylor brings to the table. He could be a beast. He does have that kind of talent. But, he is always out of shape; has to take too many plays off; is fairly undisciplined, etc. Heck, if I see it.............I'm sure other GMs see it. 
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Quote:
I wonder if we any team would be willing to trade a decent WR for Phil Taylor? Probably not, but you never know.
49ers maybe
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They were hurting at WR, now all of a sudden, they are loaded.
Unrelated to our discussion, but I wanna add this:
I was not a huge fan of Mingo when we drafted him. However, I saw something special in this kid when I saw him play for us.
I realize that he was heavily criticized by most fans on this board, but I saw a talent that is special. This kid has freakish ability. He has long legs and arms. He is wiry strong. He has a big time motor. I think some of the guys who hated the previous FO were automatically down on Mingo and others followed their lead. I think those people are dead wrong about the kid.
Yes, he struggled w/some things. He went from DE to OLB. That is a transition. He certainly hit the proverbial rookie wall later in the season, but this kid flashed brilliance. I think he can be a special talent that compares favorably to Ware, Von Miller, and Aldon Smith.
I am a little disappointed that we are using him more in coverage this year. I want this kid rushing the passer. He can do things that other guys can't. He is an exceptional athlete.
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Plus they lost Dorsey with a torn biceps so they may be looking for NT help
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Good info. I did not know that.
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I like PT ( you and I have disagreed about since he was drafted.  ) but I would trade him for a good WR and never look back, even with Gordon. We have a wealth on the DL and from what I am hearing some good young ( cheap) players in the fold I said it in another thread, I think they are dangling him as trade bait right now.
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Yeah, I understand.
I think Phil has the talent. I think he gets hyped up sometimes and is really, really good. In fact, I remember posting early last year that he was impressing me w/his energy and productivity.
I just think he hasn't ever really gave it his all. I think he is poorly conditioned. That bothers me, tex. I mean...........you are a professional athlete getting paid big time money and you can't get in proper shape? That is unbelievable in my world.
I just came off of major, major surgery. Been running about 3.5--4.0 miles a day. Pushing myself even though it freaking hurts and hurts bad! I am an old man and realize the importance of being in shape. This guy is being paid to be in shape and he can't get there?
Sorry bro, I have a problem w/that.
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Hopefully they aren't dangling him by thehamstring.
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Yeah I agree... Announcing his failed physical and then a hamstring injury isn't going to drum up a lot of trade interest.
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Cleve - LOL, not sure I am buying that hamstring thing, but I like conspiracies.. Yeah Vers, I have been disappointed in him this year, as stated above not sure I buy into the hammy... and yeah he is frustrating with his lack of conditioning On a side note good to hear you are healthy enough to push it.. keep it up, ( the running I mean,  )
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Back to camp stuff ..... and the scrimmage .... Five Cleveland Browns who helped their causes in the team scrimmage | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/08/five_cleveland_browns_who_help.htmlAKRON, Ohio -- Johnny Manziel scrambled, an unheralded defensive lineman rumbled and an undrafted receiver from Ball State continued to make a case for a spot on the Browns' roster. The franchise conducted its annual Family Day scrimmage Saturday at InfoCision Stadium. The defense dominated and accounted for the only two touchdowns. Fans got the opportunity to see favorites like cornerback Joe Haden and left tackle Joe Thomas, but this time of year is about evaluating fresh talent and position battles. Here's a snapshot of five players who helped their causes to either make the team or climb the depth chart: Defensive lineman Jacobbi McDaniel: The undrafted rookie scored a touchdown on a fumble recovery and tipped a pass that resulted in a Barkevious Mingo interception. He also applied some good pressure on quarterbacks. The good news is the 6-foot, 293-pound lineman was the star of the scrimmage. The bad news is the Browns have continuity and depth at the position. Mingo likes what he sees in the Florida State product. "The guy is going to be a stud," he said. "He's wreaking havoc on the line." Wide receiver Willie Snead: The Browns need one of their young receivers to emerge. One week into training camp the Ball State product has been the most active and reliable. On Saturday, he caught two passes for 23 yards with both receptions carrying for first downs. His stock rose while fellow youngster Charles Johnson's dipped. Johnson dropped what would have been a Johnny Manziel touchdown pass. Miles Austin was the best receiver on the day – three catches for 38 yards – but his place in the lineup isn't questioned. Quarterback Johnny Manziel: His numbers weren't impressive – 3-of-7 for 14 yards passing – but he made and extended some plays with his legs and showed glimpses of his Heisman self. He performed better in the scrimmage – more Johnny-like, if you will – than at any point in the first week of training camp. After an ugly first series, he directed a 16-play drive that generated 63 yards. Manziel had one potential touchdown dropped by Charles Johnson and another ruled out of bounds after Gary Barnidge made a nice grab on a Manziel roll-out pass. His inability to stand in the pocket and deliver passes remains worrisome, but he creates trouble on the run. He looked comfortable running a few read options and finished with 14 yards rushing on two attempts. Defenders weren't allowed to hit quarterbacks Saturday. That changes a week from today in the first preseason game at Detroit. "If he was a regular quarterback in this league, you'd be licking your chops, but it's Johnny Manziel, Mingo said. "He can plant. He can take it the other way. We can't hit him, but you just never know what he's going to do." Linebacker Craig Robertson: The third-year pro is trying to hold off rookie Chris Kirksey for the starting inside job alongside Karlos Dansby. He intercepted a Connor Shaw pass, a play that resulted in a touchdown. The only demerit was Robertson fumbled after getting hit by a fellow defender and McDaniel got credit for the TD. Linebacker Zac Diles: A pick six, even in a team scrimmage, never hurts your cause. The 29-year-old journeyman intercepted a Connor Shaw pass and returned it for a touchdown.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I realize that I might be the only person on here worried about our offense, but when your defense outscores your offense in a scrimmage by two touchdowns..........it might be an indicator that the concern is for real.
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Quote:
I realize that I might be the only person on here worried about our offense, but when your defense outscores your offense in a scrimmage by two touchdowns..........it might be an indicator that the concern is for real.
Manziel would have had a TD if they had reviews. Yeah, that's a really weak take. I'm very concerned about the offense right now. The defense is killing them in almost all of the reports I have read. I think the O will improve with more reps but I am worried that our receiving corps is inadequate, as well as our run blocking.
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That is a concern ... although I think that we could well wind up having a top 5 secondary ..... which has to be taken into account.
We also made far more changes on offense than on defense this year. We have new WR and new RBs all over the place, and we have 2 different Guards playing 1st team right now. Also, the defense is playing a system closer to what we ran last year than the offense is.
One other thing ..... the offense "won" the red zone drills .... so that's a plus.
It's also not even the 1st preseason game yet. I think that it's normal for the defenses to be ahead early.
I'll be far more concerned if we're still struggling after the 2nd preseason game.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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One other thing ..... the offense "won" the red zone drills .... so that's a plus.
When? They certainly didn't win today. The dropped TD and the TD that wasn't counted were both on the 16 play drive.
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It was the red zone drills yesterday. Sorry that I didn't make that clear.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No cameron and No Gordon. How many teams can lose 2 probowl weapons and still perform well on offense? If we have Miles Austin, josh gordon and Jordan Cameron suddenly this horrible looking offense becomes loaded.
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No cameron and No Gordon. How many teams can lose 2 probowl weapons and still perform well on offense? If we have Miles Austin, josh gordon and Jordan Cameron suddenly this horrible looking offense becomes loaded.
I agree. It is a new system on O. It's way too soon to be all that concerned. If we can't move the ball in the 3rd preseason game, then worry.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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j/c pretty much everybody the whole year thought our defence was going to be better than our offence this year. now people are shocked that the offence is struggling against our defence? just baffling. thank goodness preseason is almost here. 
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Quote:
I realize that I might be the only person on here worried about our offense, but when your defense outscores your offense in a scrimmage by two touchdowns..........it might be an indicator that the concern is for real.
I'm not worried about the offense. The offense is bad. I expected the offense to be bad. Nothing to worry about The question is: Can this year's bad offense be better than last year's bad offense. Baby steps.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I agree. It is a new system on O. It's way too soon to be all that concerned. If we can't move the ball in the 3rd preseason game, then worry.
Statements like that are made every year and every year the concerns that some of us have turn out to be valid.
I don't think this offense is going to be good. I don't see enough talent or experience. I think we will have one of the league's worst offenses.
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Coaching changes...almost yearly coaching changes...do not produce well honed and polished offensive performances...at least, not until the offense gels.
Another new playbook for the offense...it will take some time.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
I realize that I might be the only person on here worried about our offense, but when your defense outscores your offense in a scrimmage by two touchdowns..........it might be an indicator that the concern is for real.
I can somewhat hear this. All the drops is just like a recurring nightmare for me. Offenses don't mean squat if we have noone that can catch teh ball when the action is real-time. I heard Armstorng and Johnson both had drops, Johnson's was a slant that would have been a TD. These are two names that I've been monitoring cause they've been having good camps.
But, some other factors. Our secondary isn't a joke now. We could have top 5 or even top 3 secondary now. No Josh and Jordan was taken out "more as a precautionary" according to Pettine. Two of our lethal threats.
Makes me upsetting that I believe I even heard Hawkins dropped a pass, and ended up with no catches. Virtually positive I read this. This is upsetting given he's the "star" obviously without a Jordan and without a Josh. The offense did move the ball and etc though, wasn't like back-to-back three and outs.
Nevertheless, I'm still hesitant to feel very cozy and comfy with our offense. Without Josh, it's simple... Kyle needs to get the run game completely tuned and productive. Without that, pretty confident we'll see another offense that struggles come game day.
All JMO.
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Did a quick search on NFL's top secondaries. Not many articles out there, but I found a couple and they both had us ranked around 7th. That's pretty good and I can't believe that Denver is rated ahead of us, so we might end up being a top 5 secondary.
It's kinda hard to say how good Gilbert and Desir are going to be, since they haven't even played a game yet.
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Alright.........I just did a quick search for NFL's best defenses and then best offenses.
Our power ranking on defense is 20th.
Our power ranking on offense is 29th.
I think our defense will be better than that, but the offensive ranking appears to be accurate.
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I realize that I might be the only person on here worried about our offense, but when your defense outscores your offense in a scrimmage by two touchdowns..........it might be an indicator that the concern is for real.
You're certainly not the only one.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think our defense will be better than that, but the offensive ranking appears to be accurate.
I would agree 100%. I just hope, that in terms of the offense, we both are wrong lol! This team was actually really fun to watch during Hoyer's brief little run there. I mean they moved the balls as opposed to three and outs. Until they can prove otherwise, 29th isn't an outta-this-world power ranking for them.
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With new emphasis on defensive holding and PI calls, I am actually a little more worried about our D than O. We have 2 of the grabbiest corners in football and with Johny running around, its gonna be hard to cover some of these guys.
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Here is one take on our Wide Receivers. The number 30 before our name signifies where he has our group ranked: Quote:
30. Cleveland Browns
This ranking assumes that Gordon will be suspended for at least half of the 2014 season; as he was last seen getting a speeding ticket in a car that reportedly smelled like the army jackets in the cloakroom during Laser Pink Floyd at the planetarium, that's a safe guess.
But wait … the Browns have assembled the most amazing superhero team this side of the Great Lakes Avengers. It's the Legion of Oddball Slot Receivers! There's Miles Austin, an elder statesman with the power to cloud Jerry Jones' mind so he overpays him! There's Anthony Armstrong, former Redskins deep threat who can name all of the teams in the Intense Football League! There's Andrew Hawkins, whose experience in reality television and as an employee in a wind turbine factory gave him the power to cling to the bottoms of depth charts throughout Ohio! There's Pizza Delivery Lord Nate Burleson! There's Earl Bennett … oh heck, he already got cut. Best of all, there are no drafted rookies, because who needs anyone from the best rookie class in 20 years when you have guys from the CFL, Arena football, the Intense Football League and stars of the 2007 Seahawks and 2009 Cowboys?
OK, OK. Hawkins has screen-and-burn capability. Burleson and Austin can still do a little something on underneath routes. Travis Benjamin can fly and may get an increased role. And Jordan Cameron is a very good possession tight end. All these slot guys and tight ends need are a pair of starting receivers to draw some coverage deep and toward the sidelines so they can work their magic. Unfortunately, the one guy who fits the description has issues.
Oh, and yes I am aware that Chris Ogbonnaya caught 48 passes last season. Twenty-two of them came with the Browns trailing in the fourth quarter. He's not a good receiver out of the backfield.
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I read two other rankings.
Bleacher Report has our WRs ranked 29th in the league.
Another site had us at 16th, but that was with Gordon.
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I too am worried about the offense.. Truly gonna have to put the offense on the o-line and RB's back..
If our run game lacks.. prepare for a long season...
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yep, on paper those ranking look just about right. we just gotta hope one of them becomes our Vicotr Cruz.... not likely but.... hope, damn I am sick of saying that. 
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I'm choosing to take a "wait and see" attitude about the offense. To avoid any over reaction to that statement let me be clear that I am not stating the O will be top 10. Hope that clears it up for any that wants to argue that point with me.
What I am saying is the O can be at least as good as last year and possibly better (Browns were 16 in total offense last year, Seahawks 17). Not an unachievable feat. To do that first the team has to successfully adjust to a new offensive scheme, changing to zone blocking, complete overhaul of receiving corp, resurrect the running game and figure out the guard position. Can't check all of that off in the first week of TC.
Oh yeah, deciding on a QB might be a factor as well.
There's been about 1 week of padded practice. Everything I've come to understand about zbs says that OL unit cohesion is even more important than in a power scheme. That cohesion doesn't happen overnight.
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j/c
I would be a fool to say I'm not worried, but I would like to see at least 1 real NFL football game before I bury the offense. Because there is talent there. Particularly in running the football.
The passing game...we'll see. Without Gordon, not a lot of great pass catchers. I love Hawkins, but only in the slot. Cameron hasn't proven he can be a go to guy yet. Austin is good, but needs to stay healthy. Burelson could be glue factory. And the rest are never was type players. Now would be a great time to find a Victor Cruz player.
you had a good run Hank.
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Yeah, we were 17th in offense last year, but that is because we threw the ball so much. We threw the ball more than any other team. For comparison sake, Denver threw it the second most and they finished first in offense.
Other teams that threw it a lot like New Orleans, Detroit, and New England all finished high in offense. Atlanta threw it a lot but was ranked just 14th, which isn't very good, but still better than us.
Sometimes, you have to look closer at the numbers. Throwing it more is going to move you further up the rankings in terms of total offense, but it isn't always an indicator of how good your offense really is.
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