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As opposed to the Peen Report? 
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Hey the " Peen " report is a valued publication on our Board  
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Dawg Talker
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I realize that we were extreme in terms of our reliance of the pass last year. I'm not denying we have deficiencies offensively. If (the biggest word in the English vocabulary) we can get more balance in our run/pass ratio and increase our 3rd down conversion rate and our red zone efficiency that will be huge for this offense. BTW, the pass Manziel threw to Barnage was a TD. The call was bad. Should have been six
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Legend
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J/C....
1. Offense...I'm Mr. Positive and yet I Know/Think our offense will struggle big time. Not because of personnel.... its just the nature of things when you are RUNNING A NEW O!!! And worse yet its the like the 4 or 5th O in as many years...there is no foundation set for a transition. Easier to transition when all have a foundation of another O...not 4 other O's.
2. I'm confused. I'm a big JM fan, heck I was satisfied if we took him #4. But I know he will be a better QB sitting. What's all this Baloney about him going to be the STARTER???
Didn't see any of the Scrimmage. But as I was driving late last night listening to ESPN NY Radio....Hoyer was mentioned to have 7-11 I mean how bad could he have done. 64% completion???
I'll be shocked if he didn't get the start. even Pat McMahon giving the ESPN Browns report says its pretty much a lock...JM just learning too much. If Hoyer struggles and is 0-3 or a bad looking 1-2 expect JM to start after the bye week...Got to agree. If that is the case sure do expect JM to come in from the bye week.
I hear a lot of Camp reports...yeah from that same radio show. If they have a Browns report there are others. Almost 100% all around the NFL, the D's are making the O's look silly right now.
My boys been eating left over Friday Nite Pizza for Breakfast for ages, mostly cause they are too lazy to make real breakfast! lol. Another great thing I can state that hard earned $$$ going to their Education has come away with 
We got our asses kicked last nite in the Bronx...I'm in a foul mood.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Hey the " Peen " report is a valued publication on our Board
And is a more highly accredited one too. Quality journalism at the 'Peen Report'. 
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Legend
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I would pay money for The Ballpeen Report. (Actually, I kind of just did by feeding the kitty with the Paypal-Donate button.)
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Is there anywhere to watch yesterday's scrimmage online or anything?
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Legend
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I've only seen highlights and/or clips ... not the entire thing. It was difficult to see much on the clips too because of the angle
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Practice Squad
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j/c We better hope and pray that Shanahan has superior OL coverage against Suh. Quote:
"If he was a regular quarterback in this league, you'd be licking your chops, but it's Johnny Manziel, Mingo said. "He can plant. He can take it the other way. We can't hit him, but you just never know what he's going to do."
Otherwise, one of our QB's may be on IR before the game is over, especially if he delivers another "pile driver' like he did to Delomme in that pre-season game a few years back.
Hears to hoping Dorsey is the Browns Ozzie Newsome.
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I don't think this offense is going to be good. I don't see enough talent or experience. I think we will have one of the league's worst offenses.
Every year you say something similar and every year I don't like hearing it. Every year it plays out the same, our offense isn't good.
Each time I have been able to come up with several improvements I've felt we've made. Be it more experienced players, draft and/or FA acquisitions, coaching, scheme or other considerations that I feel will make us better this/that year.
Every time all my potential improvements have come up short as it seems nothing ever changes.
Not even the blossoming of the best WR in the NFL in Gordon has made a difference. Still, we win 4/5 games as our offense is, once again, not good.
This year, I have only two things to hang my hat on that may actually make a difference and that is the upgrade of our RB's and the QB position.
We should have a much better 1-2-3 punch at RB. Maybe not the improvement some feel it is going to be, but it simply HAS to be better than the RB's we trotted out there last season.
The RB position has to count for something of an improvement.
I'll not recap those games Hoyer started as it's been done aplenty. But Hoyer was exciting and won his only two complete starts with the same players that lost 12 games without him. Who knows?, maybe he'd have lost those 12 too.
He even made our D better last year by virtue of his leadership and that was evident throughout the whole team. He had a knack for finding the TE. Cameron had 5 TD's through the first 4 games, four of them from Hoyer. He then had 2 TD's in the remaining 12 games without Hoyer.
If Hoyer goes down his replacement will not be Weeden nor Campbell. I believe JFF, as a struggling rookie, is head & shoulders better than either of those two.
The QB position has to count for something of an improvement.
I know the WR corps is very suspect without Gordon, but the three guys below him are much better than the three guys below Gordon the past couple of years. All three of them, Austin, Burrelson and Hawkins can all run good routes. That alone is an improvement. If they can still catch that's another. My main concern is those older guys staying healthy. If they don't we're dead in the water. But if they do and we can run the ball with any success then there is potential.
So here you go again rating our O very low. And here I go again trying to find the positives/improvements/potential.
One of these times the breaks have to fall our way.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Here is how I see it.
Are we better on the O-line? Check
Are we better at TE? Check
Are we better at runningback? Check
Are we better at QB? Check
Are we better at receiver? Check
I don't see how anybody can say we aren't improved over last year. It makes no sense.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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predicting the browns O is gonna struggle is kinda like predicting the sun is gonna shine in the desert. Just like most years, its all about the QB. Decent QB play and this is a playoff contender.
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Quote:
Are we better at receiver? Check
Are we better at receiver? ?
I think bess/little sucked and we improved on those 2.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Legend
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Until I can definitely say that we're improved at QB we will always be a 3-5 win team. It doesn't matter how good our defense or OL is ... without an NFL caliber QB, we'll stink. It's all on Hoyer/Johnny.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Legend
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Every year you say something similar and every year I don't like hearing it. Every year it plays out the same, our offense isn't good.
And every year, guys like peen say I don't make any sense. How about just last year. People were acting like we were going to have a great running game because Norv had great success w/RBs and TRich, Hardesty, and Lewis were going to give us one of the top five running games in the league. I disputed that over and over and according to most, I didn't make sense then, either. Or, how about the QB position? Most claimed that Weeden would thrive in Norv's offense. I was a hater because I maintained that his inability to read coverages in a timely manner would be his downfall.
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I know the WR corps is very suspect without Gordon, but the three guys below him are much better than the three guys below Gordon the past couple of years. All three of them, Austin, Burrelson and Hawkins can all run good routes.
Everyone is saying that, but how do you guys really KNOW that? I had this discussion w/peen--and others---earlier this year. I was stupid then, too. So, I looked up the numbers for last year's top 3 vs. the numbers this year's top accumulated during the past season. Here is my reply to those who were acting like I was stupid:
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Gordon: 87 receptions---1646 yards---9 TDS
Bess: 42 receptions---362 yards---2 TDS
Little: 41 receptions---465 yards---2 TDS
Now, your Big Three:
Burrleson: 39 receptions---455 yards---1 TD
Hawkins: 12 receptions---199 yards---0 TDS
Austin: 24 receptions---244 yards---0 TDS
Let me do the math for you:
Last year's group:
170 receptions---2473 yards---13 TDS
This year's group:
76 receptions---898 yards---1 TD
I don't see how it is a given that this year's group is better. There is absolutely no evidence. We certainly just can't say, "check."
Furthermore, I think all of those "checks" that peen trotted out there as evidence are similar in that they are opinions. We may think they will be better. We certainly hope they will be better, but we don't KNOW they will be better.
I think this year is similar to almost every other year in that we have a lot of guys who have a lot of question marks, whether that be because they are young and inexperienced or they are older guys who have faltered in past years. Combine that w/us learning yet another new offense and a completely different blocking scheme that takes a brains a lot of cohesion to make it work, and I think there are a lot of legitimate concerns and questions about our offense.
I believe that when you have a team/unit w/so many question marks, the odds are fairly high that they are going to struggle.
But then again, according to peen.............I don't make sense. 
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Legend
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It doesn't make sense. Especially since we are a week in to camp. You can't tell me we haven't improved across the board. Now, how it plays out, time will tell on that. I just think it a bit goofy to be talking about how bad our O is going to be when we still have 4 preseason games to play. I just don't see how conclusions can be drawn at this point. If we go out and score 38 in this first game, I promise I won't start talking about how great this O is going to be. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Goofy? Priceless.
Conclusions? I didn't realize questions and concerns were making conclusions. Btw---look at what you have been saying, including your "check" list, and tell me who is making conclusions?
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Legend
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Quote:
Here is how I see it.
Are we better on the O-line? Check
Are we better at TE? Check
Are we better at runningback? Check
Are we better at QB? Check
Are we better at receiver? Check
I don't see how anybody can say we aren't improved over last year. It makes no sense.
You know, I''ve gone into most training camps feeling the same way. Last year, I thought our running game was improved with Richardson/Lewis/Obi. I thought our receiver situation was good with Gordon and Little (who was working his tail off in camp). Still questioned our TE's, Cameron hadn't done anything yet. I thought with Lava and Pinky back, our OL situation was improved. Norv Turner at OC, how could we not be better? He'll put together a system to suit Weeden...who's got a year under his belt. If not, we have Jason Campbell, an experienced vet to fall back on. With Chud seeming to be a tremendous improvement over Shurmur, it looked like we were well on our way to turning things around. I can go back season by season with these examples. History indicates that we're in for another 4-5 win season, and I'll watch the games hoping this time will be different.
I don't see why everyone is so certain our running game will be so much better.....we thought Richardson/Obi/Lewis were going to solve that problem. Tate hasn't proven himself a #1 NFL rb and West hasn't played an NFL down.
It's taken me a dozen years, but I'm not getting my hopes up anymore until there are numbers in the W column. I love the Browns and I'll watch every game (they are usually exciting and give you lots to discuss), but I'm not expecting wins this year.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Gordon: 87 receptions---1646 yards---9 TDS
Bess: 42 receptions---362 yards---2 TDS
Little: 41 receptions---465 yards---2 TDS
Now, your Big Three:
Burrleson: 39 receptions---455 yards---1 TD
Hawkins: 12 receptions---199 yards---0 TDS
Austin: 24 receptions---244 yards---0 TDS
Let me do the math for you:
Last year's group:
170 receptions---2473 yards---13 TDS
This year's group:
76 receptions---898 yards---1 TD
Gordon caught 54% of passes thrown his way
little caught 41% of passes thrown his way
bess caught 48% of passes thrown his way
Burrleson caught 71% of passes thrown his way
Hawkins caught 71% of passes thrown his way
Austin caught 48% of passes thrown his way
well I wont say those 3 are a upgrade but apparently they can at least catch the ball when they are in games.
I just don't see what you wanted the FO to do different. draft a WR? who would you get rid of that they drafted?
Justin Gilbert and a first round pick next year?
JFF? you were screaming we needed a QB.
Joel Bitonio? I know you were saying lava wasn't that bad but.... yea he is.
Christian Kirksey? did you watch our ILB play last year?
Terrance West? did you watch our run game last year?
Pierre Desir? well maybe but what receiver do you think was there that would make a difference this year?
you knew it was going to take years to recover from the heckert years. I just don't see what could have been done much different from what they did.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I just don't see what you wanted the FO to do different. draft a WR? who would you get rid of that they drafted?
Our draft looked pretty good to me, the only thing that seems to me would have made sense would have been trading a 4th for Stevie Johnson from the Bills. That's what the 49ers got him for. But I'm sure Pettine would have known he was available, there must be something about the guy behind the scenes. 6 million a year isn't that expensive compared to other players of ours (like Krueger).
But looking at our picks, I have no complaints really. All satisfied needs. We ignored probably our biggest need, but put ourselves in another good position for next year's 1st round.
Just a better FA WR (but we don't know who was even interested in us) or trading for Johnson would have put us in a much better position.
Honestly, since Gordon reaching NFL's second tier, I have wanted to find more insurance at receiver. I even considered wanting us to trade him with his stock being so high. I'm hoping for the best (for us) with the guy though. Gordon on our offense can change a dark day to a sunny day IMO.
But I don't think it's necessarily the draft, it's just making a better move to get ourselves real talent at WR (instead of Austin, Burleson, and Earl Bennett)
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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I don't believe it has anything to do with what they should have done or did do. What I think it boils down to is what will we see on the field this year?
An entire new coaching staff, different O scheme and OL blocking scheme. A questionable WR core and no definite answer at the QB position. Those leave a lot of questions and for this year especially. That's the situation we're in despite what was or wasn't done.
And Vers is right. Tate has never been the #1 RB and has had trouble staying healthy in a supporting role at the position. And Terrance West has never taken a snap in the NFL.
Now does that mean we're doomed on O? No I don't believe it does. What I believe is that the odds are not in our favor this season on the O side of the ball. The new coaching staff, schemes and rookies will take time to gel. Everybody believing this will be some instant gratification success story are convincing themselves of something that logic simply does not dictate IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Although I maintain that I am neither pessimistic or optimistic I have to point this out. The argument that we don't know that the offense will be better is counterbalanced by the fact that we don't know if the offense will be worse either. Particularly at this stage of the season. There are arguments on both sides and people are free to give credence to either as they are inclined.
If anyone were to come on here and state as fact that the offense will break out and be the leading unit on this team, possibly a top 10 offense that would deserve as much skepticism as does the belief that this offense will fail.
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You know, of course, the Ballpeen Report is free, right? 
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Quote:
You know, I''ve gone into most training camps feeling the same way. Last year, I thought our running game was improved with Richardson/Lewis/Obi. I thought our receiver situation was good with Gordon and Little (who was working his tail off in camp). Still questioned our TE's, Cameron hadn't done anything yet. I thought with Lava and Pinky back, our OL situation was improved.
Just because you're a bad talent evaluator....
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Norv Turner at OC, how could we not be better? He'll put together a system to suit Weeden...who's got a year under his belt. If not, we have Jason Campbell, an experienced vet to fall back on. With Chud seeming to be a tremendous improvement over Shurmur, it looked like we were well on our way to turning things around. I can go back season by season with these examples. History indicates that we're in for another 4-5 win season, and I'll watch the games hoping this time will be different.
Bad coaching decisions too! Chudzinski was a wussy and didn't speak with authority. He was too meek. The same with Shurmur before him. Pettine doesn't come across as taking anything from anyone.
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I don't see why everyone is so certain our running game will be so much better.....we thought Richardson/Obi/Lewis were going to solve that problem. Tate hasn't proven himself a #1 NFL rb and West hasn't played an NFL down.
Who thought that Richardson was going to be all that? Well, maybe Indy - but they were listening to you and the media hype.  With Manziel, we got the better runner out of that deal with them.
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It's taken me a dozen years, but I'm not getting my hopes up anymore until there are numbers in the W column. I love the Browns and I'll watch every game (they are usually exciting and give you lots to discuss), but I'm not expecting wins this year.
It'll have to play out, but the optimism isn't as ill-placed as it was in the past years in Browns Town.
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Since this is a rather active thread and it is related to camp...
Browns awarded Michael Bowie via waivers
Posted 6 minutes ago
Clevelandbrowns.com
@Browns Facebook
BEREA, Ohio -- The Cleveland Browns on Sunday were awarded OL Michael Bowie via waivers from the Seattle Seahawks. General Manager Ray Farmer made the announcement.
Bowie, a 6-5, 320-pound offensive lineman entering his second NFL season, appeared in nine games with eight starts (seven at RT, one at RG) for Seattle in 2013. During the Seahawks’ Super Bowl XLVIII championship run, he started at left guard in the team’s 23-15 Divisional Playoffs victory against the New Orleans Saints but was inactive for the final two contests. Bowie contributed to an offensive line that helped Seahawks Pro Bowl RB Marshawn Lynch rush for 1,257 rushing yards and 12 TDs, tied for the most in the NFL last season.
A seventh-round draft pick (No. 242 overall) by Seattle in 2013, Bowie finished his collegiate career at Northeastern State University (Okla.), where the All-MIAA second-team member did not concede a sack and registered a team-best 47 knockdown blocks. He joined the RiverHawks in 2012 after playing at Oklahoma State University and Navarro Junior College (Texas), where he was part of the Bulldogs’ national championship team.
Bowie is a native of Tulsa, Okla., and attended San Springs Charles Page High School.
I continue to be impressed by Ray Farmer's diligence in upgrading the roster.
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Legend
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My point was that it will more than likely be a work in progress that will take some time. Not that it will fail. For the long run it will mostly be predicted upon how well Johnny Football progresses.
My belief is that it will actually take quite a bit more time than many are indicating for any true results to be known.
Just too little continuity on both the coaching staff and system for it to come together as fast as many seem to feel. That's not so much a prediction as it's what I see as the most likely scenario based on what we do know.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Just because you're a bad talent evaluator....
I'll give you that, but a lot of others felt the same way.
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Bad coaching decisions too! Chudzinski was a wussy and didn't speak with authority. He was too meek. The same with Shurmur before him. Pettine doesn't come across as taking anything from anyone.
The optimism felt with Chud was overwhelming in training camp.
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Who thought that Richardson was going to be all that? Well, maybe Indy - but they were listening to you and the media hype. With Manziel, we got the better runner out of that deal with them
How soon we forget. During training camp, almost everybody here thought Richardson was going to tear it up.
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It'll have to play out, but the optimism isn't as ill-placed as it was in the past years in Browns Town.
The whole point of my post is that's exactly how I've felt before just about every season since the return. This year, I won't get excited until we win some games. Your posting in hindsight.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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I just don't see what you wanted the FO to do different.
I am not getting into another stupid FO war w/you guys. Who freaking mentioned the FO? I sure as heck didn't.
We go through this song and dance every year and you guys always act like I am making stuff up or I have no clue about how good or bad we will be and each and every year you are wrong.
Look, I don't care if you don't agree, but after all this time, you would think people would be wise enough to stop saying I am "goofy" or that I "don't make any sense."
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Quote:
Quote:
Just because you're a bad talent evaluator....
I'll give you that, but a lot of others felt the same way.
For what it's worth, I value your opinion over his. He is the same guy saying Zach Mettenberger was going to be drafted way ahead of Bridgewater.
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If Pettine would have wanted Stevie Johnson, I am sure the Browns would have got him.
Stevie is a bit of a head case...
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
Quote:
I just don't see what you wanted the FO to do different.
I am not getting into another stupid FO war w/you guys. Who freaking mentioned the FO? I sure as heck didn't.
We go through this song and dance every year and you guys always act like I am making stuff up or I have no clue about how good or bad we will be and each and every year you are wrong.
Look, I don't care if you don't agree, but after all this time, you would think people would be wise enough to stop saying I am "goofy" or that I "don't make any sense."
you know what. . on you. you really went down from the other board. I show that we brought in recievers that can catch a ball instead of bess/little. I ask a simple question as to what you think farmer should have done and you throw a sissy fit. FO war??????? what are you? a little kid??
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Legend
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LOL.............here we go.
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Legend
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Back to reality.
I heard Jonathan Baldwin got cut by the 49ers. He was a former first round pick of KC. I think Farmer was there at that time.
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Back to reality.
I heard Jonathan Baldwin got cut by the 49ers. He was a former first round pick of KC. I think Farmer was there at that time.
and your point is what?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
It's camp stuff. That is the name of the thread. Stick to posting articles and don't talk so much. You are making yourself look foolish.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
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It's camp stuff. That is the name of the thread. Stick to posting articles and don't talk so much. You are making yourself look foolish.
ok so you can put up stats but I cant? im not allowed to talk because .... I was going to say disagree but I cant even say that. it would be putting up a different view on things. naw you really went downhill from the other board.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Who said you couldn't put up stats? I just am not going to get into another FO debate. That was NOT my intent.
And okay..............I've went downhill. Big deal. Ignore me. Please.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
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I'll give you that, but a lot of others felt the same way.
I know, but I put the in there just to pick on you a little. I never liked Lauvao. I had hope for Pinkston, but when we had Gilkey, I thought we should just put the man in there. He was better than either of them anyway.
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The optimism felt with Chud was overwhelming in training camp.
I won't deny that but only because it was felt that nothing could be worse than Shurmur. Well... it's hard to defend Chudzinski and say that he was better. I guess the optimism came about because of the respect that the Turner and Horton had as the OC and DC, respectively. It was believed that they would help the HC learn how to be better than the previous regime. It didn't turn out that way.
I think too many people got bound up with the thoughts about the HC being a longtime Browns fan. Yeah, that might have helped him land the job but it didn't help him keep the job.
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How soon we forget. During training camp, almost everybody here thought Richardson was going to tear it up.
I know that there was a local minority that saw some serious flaws in his running style. He could have had another 400 yards rushing (maybe more) if he had any kind of vision and ability to see the holes. He ran for 3.5 yards per carry. Well below expectations when he was drafted by the Browns with the #3 overall selection. In the two games before he was traded, he hadn't done any better. Some saw that in his rookie season, he didn't hit the holes. He danced E-W and didn't run N-S like he was expected.
One might tally it up to poor QB play or play-calling by Shurmur (which there was plenty of both), but when he went to Indy, he did even worse than what he had with the Browns. Banner stole that first rounder from Indy. That was theft and Banner should be prosecuted for it.
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The whole point of my post is that's exactly how I've felt before just about every season since the return. This year, I won't get excited until we win some games. Your posting in hindsight.
Well, not quite as much hindsight. I'll admit that I might not have had as severe reservations last year as I should have, but the apprehensions were there. As with lots of Browns fans, I may have a tendency to be over-confident during training camp and the preseason.
We all want wins and that's what Hoyer had given to us last year before going down with injury. I'm sure you remember the feelings you had at the time. I'm not sure what has changed in regards to Hoyer's abilities. Maybe drafting Manziel inspires confidence in some (less in me than others - but more than if we had taken Bridgewater).
I actually like the draft that the Browns had. I'm impressed by the additions of Dansby and Whitner also.
To me, as someone not able to attend the training camps and whatever is going on there (only what I read from others), I've have confidence in Pettine and Farmer. I like their authoritative style more than I liked Banner's (who I feel got a raw deal by many) and Chudzinski (who I felt was Pat Shurmur redux).
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
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Who said you couldn't put up stats? I just am not going to get into another FO debate. That was NOT my intent.
And okay..............I've went downhill. Big deal. Ignore me. Please.
naw too easy on you. but funny you bring up a guy that last year made 3 catch for 28 yard and made a point of farmer being there. pathetic is what I think of you trying to put the guy down like that.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
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Just because you're a bad talent evaluator....
I'll give you that, but a lot of others felt the same way.
For what it's worth, I value your opinion over his. He is the same guy saying Zach Mettenberger was going to be drafted way ahead of Bridgewater.
I said that I wouldn't take Bridgewater before the fifth round. I'm actually shocked that any team selected him before then. Let's see how that shakes out though.
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