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Maybe if we slip farther and farther down the international rankings list, my ideas could become more digestible.
International rankings mean little. The United States educates far more children than most nations; the ability levels of our children in schools greatly varies in comparison to other nations.
NAEP data, a qualitative assessment, shows the achievement gap continually shrinks in the country. The gains in the gap aren't as much when integration among minorities and whites was a major focus of our department of education. But, the gains still exist. The data even shows better scores on the NAEP assessment test compared to 1970. The concerns in education are real but it's not as bad as politicians, who know little about actual education, make it out to be. The bureaucrats even focus on the wrong issues, too!
NAEP Data
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90% of other professions aren't expected to do work outside of normal work hours, weekends, or even on "vacations". I understand educators should know this before getting into the field; however, the responsibilities of a teacher definitely carry all year round.
In the 30+ years I worked in sales, and as a salaried restaurant and retail manager, I would bet that I worked only my base schedule/required hours maybe 10 times total. I always worked more than my scheduled hours, and always did work at home. Many people so do. It's not just teachers.
I certainly do not want to discredit and/or minimize the work teachers do, because it is important work ...... but others have work that is just as important, and that calls for just as many off duty hours.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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What "works" at one school may not necessarily "work" at another school. There is no one size fits all panacea for education. Best practices are good but we need to think in pluralistic terms for education. Varying degrees of different learners calls for differentiation at all levels.
While they may nit work at all schools, they just might work in areas where we would least expect them to. Nothing ventured is nothing gained, and trying new approaches, even if they fail, teaches us something.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree but if we paid teachers a fair wage they wouldn't need a union as bad though too. No easy answers because both sides have valid arguments.
I have never seen a union decide to dissolve because they were getting paid enough.
Not once.
I do think that teachers, in some cases, are underpaid. However, they work a 9 month schedule, as opposed to a 12 month schedule, so if they make 3/4 of what a comparable field, with comparable education requirements makes, then that would seem "fair" to me ..... at least as a starting point,
I really think that a major problem with education these days is that a lot of kids want to go into teaching because "they like kids". That's all well and good, but it's really not enough. It seems to me that the best teachers are the ones who manage to gain the respect of their students, and learn how to relate to them .... not necessarily the ones who "like" their students the most. Unfortunately, many kids going into education have an unrealistic picture of what it will be like, and that's why we have so many people with education degrees working in other fields. I know that it's not because of the pay, because they should know what the pay structure looks like before they attend a day of college.
I think that the education system needs a major overhaul, and best practices from the best schools should be cataloged and put into practice at other schools, where they can be. I think that we need to get parents more involved in the scholastic lives of their children. Unfortunately, that will take a societal change in certain communities, as opposed to just a new education policy.
I have never seen an American Public school teacher that got paid enough. Ever. There are teachers with doctorates barely making 40k a year in many states.
Teachers do not just work 9 months. They get same holidays as every goverment employee with an extra week or two at most during summer. While kids are off on vacation the teachers are still in school most of the time. They have to go to workshops and often take more classes to get recertified or because their principal wants them to learn extra skills to do even more things outside of what they are hired to do. Most teachers work 50-60 hours a week for a 35k salary in the better areas. American teachers work far more hours than teachers of ANY country in the world.God help you if your a teacher in a poorer state because you will be lucky to make 25k.
Yet a teacher in Germany will make almost 70k working less hours. 55k in South Korea(not counting all the money gifts parents give them tax free by the thousands of dollars which could add as much as an extra 20k of income) and working with MUCH less stress and grief and much less hours.
I made over $40 an hour teaching English when I was in South Korea and that was when it was 1 on 1 teaching. I could make $1000 a day teaching a class of 50 for 2-3 hours. yet we think its ok to pay our teachers $12 an hour and wonder why our teachers are often listless and have stopped caring. It's like paying someone from McDonalds to teach your kids and expect great things.
teachers need to get paid like professionals, parents need to get off their bums, and the rest of America needs to start treating their teachers with some frigging respect considering they spend more time with your kids than you do.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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You make a lot of good points.
I'd like to add some of my own, from here in N.W. Ohio. (and keep in mind, although I love my job, helping out at school over the years makes me wish I had gone into education - and yes, believe it or not, many people - my wife, teachers I've helped out, retired teachers, etc - have said "Arch, you would've made a great teacher)
Is teaching easy? Yes, and no. Time wise, for many (here in n.w. ohio, remember) it's easy. Show up at 7:45 or 8 am, leave at 3 pm to 3:30 pm. Is there some work to do at home? Sure....for some. But here, teachers have about 2 free periods a day, plus lunch which is generally in the 40 minute range.
And for this, here in n.w. ohio anyway, they start off at about $29,000 to $33,000, and pretty much get raises every year. Rich? No. After C.E. (masters degrees) many are earning in the $50,000 to $55,000 range. Again, rich? No. But, put your 30 years in and you get a fantastic pension (considering you're not working) and good health care (the bane of ANY business that promises health care after retirement.....)
Add in the 9 months out of the year, 2 weeks off for Christmas and New Years, a week for spring break.........the occasional day off due to weather (what other jobs cancel work because there's snow on the ground?)
My mom taught for 37 or 38 years......because she did like it, and she had nothing else to do since dad was still working. I see many of my ex teachers that retired at age 52 to age 60. That's great for them. I also see many, many couples that are, or were, both teachers, and they're living good. They certainly aren't living low on the hog.
The other side? In todays local newspaper, our superintendent, and the super from an adjoining school - are lamenting the fact that, due to required state testing, our schools will spend 40 days this coming year doing mandated state testing. (please note - that's not 40 full school days - that's 40 days where testing will take place, if that makes sense)
Keep in mind, in Ohio, you are required to have schools "in session" 185 days per year, minus up to 5 weather days.
I'm not saying teachers have it easy, but the guy putting in 40 hours a week on the factory floor makes less, and works more hours, with less benefits.
We need teachers, we need plumbers, we need doctors, we need people that dig ditches, we need mechanics..............none of them think they have it easy.
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lamenting the fact that, due to required state testing, our schools will spend 40 days this coming year doing mandated state testing
This is what happens when you try and run education like a business. Everyone can thank Bush, Obama, and Arne Duncan for this ridiculous push in education. The unions talk a big game about all the testing but nothing is ever done about it.
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You stated this: Teachers do not just work 9 months. They get same holidays as every goverment employee with an extra week or two at most during summer. While kids are off on vacation the teachers are still in school most of the time. They have to go to workshops and often take more classes to get recertified or because their principal wants them to learn extra skills to do even more things outside of what they are hired to do. Most teachers work 50-60 hours a week for a 35k salary in the better areas. American teachers work far more hours than teachers of ANY country in the world.God help you if your a teacher in a poorer state because you will be lucky to make 25k.
I don't know where you live, or what it's like there, but boy howdy, it ain't like that here!
They work the same hours as gov't. employees (hey, comparing anyone to a gov't. employee is....well, sad) with only an extra week or 2 off during the summer? What???
I know, and am friends, with many, many teachers. NONE of them try saying what you are saying. I'm tired of hearing how bad teachers have it, how they put in 50-60 hours a week, and now you're implying they work 50 weeks out of the year? (only holidays and an "extra week or 2 during the summer")
Again, I can only speak for here in N.W. Ohio - and each school district pays a bit differently, I'm aware of that. But trust me, the way you are describing it..........just doesn't match up with the reality - here.
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Legend
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lamenting the fact that, due to required state testing, our schools will spend 40 days this coming year doing mandated state testing
This is what happens when you try and run education like a business. Everyone can thank Bush, Obama, and Arne Duncan for this ridiculous push in education. The unions talk a big game about all the testing but nothing is ever done about it.
Overall, I agree. I don't know enough to know who to blame, but yes, if you're doing state testing 40 days a year out of your 185 days of schooling............something is wrong. Know what that something is? Gov't. got involved.
Sorry folks, we need to go back to teaching reading, writing, science, and math, and forget all the other crap. We also need to realize not every little Johnny or Suzie is equal. Some get things quicker and easier. Some have help at home while some don't. Not every school age kid needs to be "college" ready.
My bro in law makes about double what I do. What does he do? He farms, and fixes any and all types of things, and he installs alarms, and he runs heavy equipment. NONE of those things require college.
The whole "one suit fits everyone" thing is stupid.
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My aunt is a kindergarten teacher in Cleveland in a bad neighbour hood. She stays late when parents don't show up, she buys clothes such as underwear and other personal items in case the kids have accidents. She works her normal hours but in order to be an effective teacher you must create(adjust) your lesson plans. When can you grade assignments? When do write performance evaluations? If you want your room to be engaging so that kids will want to learn, you must decorate your room with your own money. If a child is hungry and hasn't eaten anything she has to buy snacks out of her own money.
Teachers do a lot and depending on where they teach, they might work more than others.
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Society says you need a degree to be successful. Person A and Person B apply for a job, they both have the exact credentials. Person A has a bachlors degree and Person B does not? Who gets the job? Person A will every day of the week. It is getting harder and harder for people to find a manufacturing job that they can make 40k+ a year and support their family. A college education is very important. It will get people in the door to a good paying job. Quote:
Sorry folks, we need to go back to teaching reading, writing, science, and math, and forget all the other crap. We also need to realize not every little Johnny or Suzie is equal. Some get things quicker and easier. Some have help at home while some don't. Not every school age kid needs to be "college" ready.
The issue is most kids are not college ready and must take remedial classes before they can understand basic college courses. If most kids are not ready that means that they school system is not preparing them, every kid does not need to be a college ready but a hight majority does. The country depends on this, if we can't fix it then all the high paying jobs will be shipped overseas.
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/briefs/x300071421/40-percent-Ohio-school-grads-not-college-ready
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You stated this: Teachers do not just work 9 months. They get same holidays as every goverment employee with an extra week or two at most during summer. While kids are off on vacation the teachers are still in school most of the time. They have to go to workshops and often take more classes to get recertified or because their principal wants them to learn extra skills to do even more things outside of what they are hired to do. Most teachers work 50-60 hours a week for a 35k salary in the better areas. American teachers work far more hours than teachers of ANY country in the world.God help you if your a teacher in a poorer state because you will be lucky to make 25k.
I don't know where you live, or what it's like there, but boy howdy, it ain't like that here!
They work the same hours as gov't. employees (hey, comparing anyone to a gov't. employee is....well, sad) with only an extra week or 2 off during the summer? What???
I know, and am friends, with many, many teachers. NONE of them try saying what you are saying. I'm tired of hearing how bad teachers have it, how they put in 50-60 hours a week, and now you're implying they work 50 weeks out of the year? (only holidays and an "extra week or 2 during the summer")
Again, I can only speak for here in N.W. Ohio - and each school district pays a bit differently, I'm aware of that. But trust me, the way you are describing it..........just doesn't match up with the reality - here.
NW Ohio as in Toledo? They are pretty well funded compared to a lot of areas and they have been doing good to improve the past 3 or 4 years.
Ohio in general has a better school system then a lot of states. I'd put them in the top 10 of places for teachers to work to be honest.
I have worked in Lower Mississippi and in South Bend and Mishawaka of Indiana. It's flat out horrible in MS so got out of there. Mishawaka schools are better environments but every teacher has to participate in the after school programs to help failing students or other school related stuff. South Bend is your classic example of segregated school districts. There are very clear white kid schools, black kid schools, and Hispanic schools. It's disgusting and blatantly obvious. The white schools have triple the funding, full computer labs, and its actually not bad working there.
The black schools like Lasalle have good teachers that try hard but are way over worked. They have so many troubled kids and kids running wild there. Because of that they have a poor teacher retention rate to the point the Principle is more like a cop than an educator. There are so many kids that need help that they don't have down time during the day. Those free periods get filled with extra time teaching the failing kids. They don't give them study hall because they wouldn't use it to study anyways. The principle there is an amazing black woman. She is full of fire and energy and the kids don't mess around with her lol. She reminded me of Nell Carter from "gimme a break."
I quote one of the students:
"The 8th graders understand that Ms. Joyce and Mr. Azar have to put discipline in us, but the sixth graders and seventh graders scream down the hallway. She is always telling us we are horrible, she should have been here when the 8th graders put pancakes with syrup in the ceiling tiles. All of the 8th graders are misreable and its because of Ms. Joyce. I am okay with EVERYONE else, but Ms. Joyce just dosen't like us for some reason."
So many things wrong with that statement ...
Anyways I'm glad the teachers in your area have it good. Don't assume it's like that everywhere else. Most of Northern Ohio is spoiled by some very good schools and great funding compared to other areas. I know in this area they are very reluctant to hire someone with a master's degree because of the higher costs.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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My aunt is a kindergarten teacher in Cleveland in a bad neighbour hood. She stays late when parents don't show up, she buys clothes such as underwear and other personal items in case the kids have accidents. She works her normal hours but in order to be an effective teacher you must create(adjust) your lesson plans. When can you grade assignments? When do write performance evaluations? If you want your room to be engaging so that kids will want to learn, you must decorate your room with your own money. If a child is hungry and hasn't eaten anything she has to buy snacks out of her own money.
Teachers do a lot and depending on where they teach, they might work more than others.
Understood.
I think the biggest thing here is: What one needs, is not necessarily what someone else needs.
I speak only from my rural NW Ohio roots. I went to school here, in a good school district. I went to college in north central Indiana, then a year after college, I moved back.
My experience is different than your aunts............and swish, and others. That doesn't make me right, or wrong, nor does it make others right or wrong.
As for teachers - aside from the teaching to the state tests for everyone...........when do they grade things? When they can. I still, based on MY experience, doubt teachers spend 50 to 60 hours a week on work. Even if they did/do - perhaps they could make better use of their time? I know that sounds crass, and I don't mean it like that.
Look, every job has it's ups and downs. In almost every job, people don't think they're paid enough.
I'm self employed. I just went on vacation last week. Want to know how much money I made? $0. Not one red cent. That's 1/4 of my totally unknown monthly income. I have no pension, I have no benefits. I'm living on the edge............by my choice. (and yes, I make about what half of the teachers here make, and I make less than a lot of them......and I work 12 months out of the year, less the unpaid time off I take)
I pay for my daughters lunches. I volunteer at school. I donate money to fund raisers, I offer my services (wait - no, I don't offer my services. I get asked to do things that don't pay...........and I do them)
Lesson plans.......teachers always make this out to be some huge, entire evening, every evening event. It's not like that. Not here. Maybe a first year teacher needs to spend a couple hours Sunday night preparing lesson plans but come on, after year 1, you think they spend 3 hours a week doing that?
Again, I'm not belittling what they do, but here's a list of teachers I personally know: Mr Rettig, mom, (retired) Mrs Gladieux, another Mrs. Gladieux, Mr. Gladieux, Mr Frank, Mr Kennedy, Mrs Kennedy, Mrs Schmucker, Mr. Gericke, Mr. Beck, Mr. Bacik, Mrs Bacik (both HUGE Browns fans), Mr. Graber, Mrs. Graber, Mr. Walker, Mrs. Walker, another Mr. Walker, and yet another Mr. Walker and yet another Mrs Walker. Mr. Beecher, Mrs. Coressel. I could probably add another 5 or more. That's just off the top of my head. These are all friends of mine, and they don't all work for the same school district, and I guarantee not one of them would say they put in 50-60 hours per week.
That's here, I understand that. But, while we have smaller school districts, we still probably have a similar "poor" ratio.
Teaching isn't as bad off financially as what we hear. And again, that's HERE. I can speak of what I know and experience.
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Lesson plans are what you put into them. It's definitely harder for new teachers than ones who have been at it a while in that regards. Then again some teachers just look for premade plans and recite like boring robots too.
I was never one for that. At the end of the week I always analyzed what my students got done homework wise and test wise. I gave custom quizzes twice a week blending a little bit from the previous weeks into the new week so their brains get the message they need to remember it. Always tried to in corporate physical, visual, vocal, and repetition. I never had a class where they all learned the same way and I hate teachers that teach by rote and don't adapt to their students.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Society says you need a degree to be successful.
I understand that.
I disagree with it, but I understand that "society" opinion.
I have a BA in Business Admin. Is it doing anything for me? No, not now. (aside from the fact that I understand advertising, understand p/l statement, understand, as much as a non accountant can understand, taxes..........basically, I understand business, etc)
The problem we face is too many people think a degree is the answer. In a technical field, yes, a degree is beneficial.
When/if everyone has a degree........then what? You go on to the next degree, right? What about looking at people that have been successful, but don't have that piece of paper?
I've been a salesman all my life (since college). I didn't need college to make me a salesman.
I started off selling kitchen and bathroom cabinets to spec home builders, and then custom home builders....went on to selling cars for about 13 years (as a past governor told my dad "if you can make a living selling cars, you can make a living doing anything) And for the last almost 11 years, I've been selling my services. Not sexual........I wouldn't make much doing that..........
Not every kid needs a degree. Not every person is going to make $100,000 per year, or more. Life isn't about money, but that's not what we're led to believe, is it?
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. I never had a class where they all learned the same way and I hate teachers that teach by rote and don't adapt to their students.
That's the key, in my opinion.
Sadly, today, too much of k-12 education is "teaching to the test". I don't blame the teachers for that either.
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Easy to say life isn't about money when you're not worried about it in the first place.
I hear this statement all the time and it makes absolutely no damn sense to me. If life wasn't about money, why did you get a degree in the first place? Why didn't you just settle at whatever job you got?
Life isn't about money... Tell that to people who lost their homes in the recession, or the millions of people in poverty having to pick which ultitly bill gets paid this month, or the guy whose car just got repossessed cause he lost his job, or the kid that has to go to school in the same clothes everyday cause his parents can't afford to buy him new clothes.
That statement infuriates me to the very core.
Money can't buy you happiness is more believable, to an extend. But life is absolutely about money. Without money you have NOTHING.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Easy to say life isn't about money when you're not worried about it in the first place.
I hear this statement all the time and it makes absolutely no damn sense to me. If life wasn't about money, why did you get a degree in the first place? Why didn't you just settle at whatever job you got?
Life isn't about money... Tell that to people who lost their homes in the recession, or the millions of people in poverty having to pick which ultitly bill gets paid this month, or the guy whose car just got repossessed cause he lost his job, or the kid that has to go to school in the same clothes everyday cause his parents can't afford to buy him new clothes.
That statement infuriates me to the very core.
Money can't buy you happiness is more believable, to an extend. But life is absolutely about money. Without money you have NOTHING.
Back off bud.
I'm damn concerned about money. Money to pay the bills. Period.
It's not like I'm sitting pretty, trust me. With the cost of propane, electric probably going up.........yeah, I'm worried about money.
I'm not worried about "do I have enough expendable income to add on to my house, or buy a new vehicle, or keep my house warmer than 64 degrees in the winter, etc" I'm worried about making my house payment.
So yeah, all this garbage economy crap is hitting me hard. 107,500 miles on my wife's vehicle, 101,000 miles on my work vehicle, 192,000 on my personal vehicle. Buy a new vehicle? Can't afford it. See, I'm a "business owner", and I sure ain't driving a new BMW, or even a used one.
But you know what I DO have? Time, and health. Time to be with my daughter.......playing volleyball, basketball, softball, or just riding 4 wheelers (2003 models - paid for, in full, in 2006). I have time to go to her games, I have time to take my wife to doctors appointments. I have time to go out and sit in the woods "hunting" (more like escaping - watching nature), I have time to run my daughter's friends around because their parents are too busy.
Money - you do need it. To pay bills. Time? You can't replace it.
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Legend
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See, here's the problem I have with this type of discussion/argument.
You're sitting there, saying money is tight. But then I'm thinking to myself, "the guy has 4-wheelers and his kids play sports and all that... he's obviously doing better myself and most others." And then someone would look at me the same way and say, "Hey, oober's obviously got a bunch of money... he plays a ton of hockey (equipment and league fees), belongs to a gym (CrossFit is expensive), and flies to Cleveland 1-2 times a year."
It's too hard to have a discussion that involves so much opinion (how much is enough) and personal preference/point of view.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Legend
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You have enough money to do all that?
Here's want I want you to do. Take this post you just made.
Print it out.
Now go to the hood. I mean the HOOD.
Show them that paper. Let them read it.
If the first person doesn't ball it up and throw it in your face, the second person will.
You have THREE cars. You have time to go hunting, and all this other stuff?
Dawg I lived in a two family home and my parents could only afford one damn car at the time, couldn't come to ANY of my football games because they HAD to work double jobs to make ends meat for the longest.
You know how bad I WISH I had your problems? That's rich people problems. That's not everyday American problems.
Get out of here with that nonsense.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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Quote:
See, here's the problem I have with this type of discussion/argument.
You're sitting there, saying money is tight. But then I'm thinking to myself, "the guy has 4-wheelers and his kids play sports and all that... he's obviously doing better myself and most others." And then someone would look at me the same way and say, "Hey, oober's obviously got a bunch of money... he plays a ton of hockey (equipment and league fees), belongs to a gym (CrossFit is expensive), and flies to Cleveland 1-2 times a year."
It's too hard to have a discussion that involves so much opinion (how much is enough) and personal preference/point of view.
100% agreed.
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
I'm with Arch on this. No one ever has enough money in this society. I don't have much student loans, I don't really care for "Good cars", so I drive the one I got from my Mom via my Grandma. I have tons of Rick Owens in my closet, but I could always use more. We're a nation of consumers, it's how we're built, so, money is always tight.
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Legend
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I'm with Arch on this. No one ever has enough money in this society. I don't have much student loans, I don't really care for "Good cars", so I drive the one I got from my Mom via my Grandma. I have tons of Rick Owens in my closet, but I could always use more. We're a nation of consumers, it's how we're built, so, money is always tight.
That's like saying "I want this yacht, but it cost 450k, and all i got is 300k spending budget, so i gotta wait next month for the rest. Money is tight".
Nonsense. You're definition of money being tight is waaayyyy different than mine.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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You guys need to stop mixing wants and needs like it's the same thing. It ain't.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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Joined: Sep 2006
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You have enough money to do all that?
Here's want I want you to do. Take this post you just made.
Print it out.
Now go to the hood. I mean the HOOD.
Show them that paper. Let them read it.
If the first person doesn't ball it up and throw it in your face, the second person will.
You have THREE cars. You have time to go hunting, and all this other stuff?
Dawg I lived in a two family home and my parents could only afford one damn car at the time, couldn't come to ANY of my football games because they HAD to work double jobs to make ends meat for the longest.
You know how bad I WISH I had your problems? That's rich people problems. That's not everyday American problems.
Get out of here with that nonsense.
And you have enough money to drive a new BMW.......working for the Army?
I guess I'd challenge YOU to go to the hood and tell everyone about how tough you have it.
Further more, show me your friends, I'll show you your future. Why would I go to the "hood." I didn't grow up there. Why don't YOU go back? You've said you want to be one of the 1 percenters.
I grew up in a 2 parent, 2 income family. I wore hand me downs from my brothers. We were middle class. I'm not anymore.
You know what? Better yet, send you "hoodies" out to visit me for a month. I'll show them what work is, what taxes are, and what things cost. They'd leave here thinking one of 2 things: "gotta steal from that guy", or "damn, putting your ass........sorry, I'll spell it out in your terms........puttin yo ass to work pays off. Dude got a house, and 2 11 year old 4 wheelers, and food. He ain't got money for pot..........but damn, I may think about trying this work crap out."
Enough money to do all that? Seriously? What the hell do I have? I have a house (9 years left on the mortgage), 2 paid off 4 wheelers, and 3 vehicles (my truck was bought from my father in law - for 2 grand - with 175,125 miles on it)......I told you about the miles on the other vehicles.
Do I have it good? You bet. Do I have it bad? You bet. All depends on who you ask, or who you compare yourself to.
Good luck with making millions. I hope in your pursuit of money you don't forget what life is about.
Hey, my wife asked me, about 3 hours ago, if I could write a check for $54 so we could get 20 pounds of ground beef. She said, at $2.70 a pound, it's a lot cheaper than getting it at the store. (a friend of a friend had slaughtered steers).
Yeah, it costs a lot to sit in a field, or in a woods during deer season, to hunt.
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Don't get me wrong. There's certain levels of tightness, I remember when money was tight, but now it's not. Doesn't change the feeling though.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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Quote:
Quote:
You have enough money to do all that?
Here's want I want you to do. Take this post you just made.
Print it out.
Now go to the hood. I mean the HOOD.
Show them that paper. Let them read it.
If the first person doesn't ball it up and throw it in your face, the second person will.
You have THREE cars. You have time to go hunting, and all this other stuff?
Dawg I lived in a two family home and my parents could only afford one damn car at the time, couldn't come to ANY of my football games because they HAD to work double jobs to make ends meat for the longest.
You know how bad I WISH I had your problems? That's rich people problems. That's not everyday American problems.
Get out of here with that nonsense.
And you have enough money to drive a new BMW.......working for the Army?
I guess I'd challenge YOU to go to the hood and tell everyone about how tough you have it.
Further more, show me your friends, I'll show you your future. Why would I go to the "hood." I didn't grow up there. Why don't YOU go back? You've said you want to be one of the 1 percenters.
I grew up in a 2 parent, 2 income family. I wore hand me downs from my brothers. We were middle class. I'm not anymore.
You know what? Better yet, send you "hoodies" out to visit me for a month. I'll show them what work is, what taxes are, and what things cost. They'd leave here thinking one of 2 things: "gotta steal from that guy", or "damn, putting your ass........sorry, I'll spell it out in your terms........puttin yo ass to work pays off. Dude got a house, and 2 11 year old 4 wheelers, and food. He ain't got money for pot..........but damn, I may think about trying this work crap out."
Enough money to do all that? Seriously? What the hell do I have? I have a house (9 years left on the mortgage), 2 paid off 4 wheelers, and 3 vehicles (my truck was bought from my father in law - for 2 grand - with 175,125 miles on it)......I told you about the miles on the other vehicles.
Do I have it good? You bet. Do I have it bad? You bet. All depends on who you ask, or who you compare yourself to.
Good luck with making millions. I hope in your pursuit of money you don't forget what life is about.
Hey, my wife asked me, about 3 hours ago, if I could write a check for $54 so we could get 20 pounds of ground beef. She said, at $2.70 a pound, it's a lot cheaper than getting it at the store. (a friend of a friend had slaughtered steers).
Yeah, it costs a lot to sit in a field, or in a woods during deer season, to hunt.
lol what?
I don't HAVE to go to the hood. I was RAISED there. Furthermore, I'm not the one complaining about having paid off four wheelers, 3 vehicles and a damn houses with time to go hunt which cost even MORE money when factoring in weapons, gear and other stuff, then turn around and say money is tight.
I don't give a damn if you bought your car from an 89 year old woman who gave you the car with the promises of bringing back food for her cats. The fact is you have THREE cars. I have friends and know people right now who can't afford a motorized scooter.
That's the difference between you and me. I got successful, but it never changed my views on the way country works. That's what you and YTown will NEVER understand: some people are at a disadvantage from the jump, and growing up in poverty NOW compare to when you guys were you is completely different. Not everybody can make it because for some people, the system is designed for them to STAY poor. To NOT have opportunities. To BECOME repeat offenders and end up life in jail.
You HAVE the American dream. That's why I get so pissed off at you. You HAVE it, yet you too oblivious to realize that a lot of people just won't make it like you, which is no fault of their own for some.
You will NEVER understand what poverty in today's world is like. Nor should you, cause I damn sure wouldn't wish that on anybody.
But I guess this country needs guys like you. Just like they need hot heads like me. And poor people stuck on the system..
This country is so jacked up.. " I got a almost paid off house, 3 cars and four wheelers, life is hard"..:
Like I said. Rich people problems.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,705 |
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I swear, this GIF is getting used in every thread the last month or so...
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Dawg Talker
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I feel that way when an uberwealthy liberal tells us that they feel our pain,while they are creating the same narrative about the conservatives but the libs are ok with that cause this is america where everybody has a chance especially them 
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Not everybody can make it because for some people, the system is designed for them to STAY poor. To NOT have opportunities. To BECOME repeat offenders and end up life in jail.
If you are stupid enough to be a repeat offender then you deserve prison and they should tack on sterilization to the bill because if you go to prison repeatedly you should not be able to procreate . You earn prison just like you earn success .
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If you are stupid enough to be a repeat offender then you deserve prison and they should tack on sterilization to the bill because if you go to prison repeatedly you should not be able to procreate . You earn prison just like you earn success .
You know I can provide factual data on why people are repeat offenders, where an unbiased person can make a rationale conclusion that will help understand why people are poor. However, most people refuse to either acknowledge the data (and just won't respond), have me on ignore or flat out refute the data.
I honestly don't understand.
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lol you guys crack me up =) In a good way =)
One guys has a house, 3 cars, 2 4-wheelers, has time to spend with his family, has health insurance, but has all that stress of trying to maintain a sinking ship.
Another guy is living pretty good but since he came from dirt poor he thinks he appreciates while he is still basically looking down on where he came and calling in sympathy.
I love how you just think there is a majical job just there waiting for every poor person to find all specially wrapped up for them. Not like there are millions and I mean MILLIONS of poor americans who can't find work. I remember I tried to get a job at burger king once. The manager flat out told me he would never hire me because I'd have his job in a month. At one time I made LOTS of money and I mean LOTS of it working in sales management while taking a break from teaching. At one point my flag store was #5 in the entire nation. Those were good days man! Then company gets bought out everyone is let go. Can't find work for 2 years. Everyone telling me I'm too good to hire for a miminum wage job. I go out to the farm I knew to work picking organic blueberries. I get told they cant hire a white man because it would scare off their "migrant" workers. I think you know what that means lol. No minimum wage job will have me. I have way too much college and too much management experience and I have made too much money in the past so they rightfully believe soon as I get a better job I would leave. I can't even really get mad at them. LOL but what's a man to do =) I guess I was poor because I didn't want to work right? Guess it was a good thing my first goal in life was to have my house paid off and my car paid off.
Anyways enough of my self pity.
Going from having hundred of thousands in my bank account to nearly being homeless wake you the tuck up. You start learning real damn fast what real needs are.
I can tell you right now that give me your sweat and $40,000 and you and your family will have a house paid for, 2-5 acres of land, never go hungry, never pay a utility bill, and collect a paycheck with never working again except to tend a garden and some animals. I'm dead serious. Sweat hard for 1-2 years and your set the rest of your life. You just have to pay taxes for your property, car maintenance, and that kind of stuff. Now imagine that and all with your current income... think 5 years of that. How much money would you have saved up with no house payments, no care payments, no utility bills, and much lower food costs. Think about the security that would provide your family after just 5 years.
If you live where it doesn't snow I can even show you how to make 1500 to 3000 a month working 15 to 20 hours a week doing honest work for honest pay.
Why is that we feel like failures if we don't have a big house in the city? 60 years ago 1000 sqr feet was a normal home. 30 years ago 1500 sqr feet is a normal home. Now? To feel middle class you probably need 2000 sqr feet. Why do we feel that way? Anyone ever take you aside and say to be a real man you need a big house and the kids each need their own private room?
The main reason you need a home is for security against animals and weather. Plus maybe cooking food safely depending on where you live(I love to grill). You probably need some privacy for having sex too right? don't wanna for get that. So you could get buy with 2 bedrooms if you had to. One for adults and one for the kids. Don't need a private bedroom for kids. Bedrooms are for sleeping people. Use it to sleep and then get up and out. You need a kitchen to cook and clean dishes. You probably want a living room but does it HAVE to be huge? Why not just big enough for your family to sit in front of a tv? Wow when was the last time you had to actually watch tv as a family? Oh, kids will whine right? How about if you don't like it go out and play or go study? Wow, scary right?!
So we have a doable 1200 sqr foot home. Now we need a place to put it. Well if you can give up the city life and move say 30 minutes away then you can find up to 5 acres for as little as 5,000 dollars. If it has a little stream or something going by even better. Cost to build actual home? Lots of sweat and about 2,000 for main structure and about 5000 for the electrical set up and another 5000 for plumbing and odd and ends. thats $17,000. Might wanna make it fancy so another 3000 for customization. So we are at 20,000. Plenty of wiggle room to spend more on land if needed or you can even add extra bedrooms if that is your desire.
Think about what it would mean to you to OWN your home. NOT to pay rent or utilities EVER again. I'll prove it tomorrow if there is any interest =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Legend
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Legend
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Can people lay off the 3 vehicles and 2 4 wheelers crap? Please?????????
4 wheelers are 11 years old.
Our newest vehicle is my work vehicle - it's a 2006, with 100,000 miles on it. Next newest is my wifes, 2006 Hummer H3 - and before anyone goes gaga on that - it was cheaper than the Jeep Grand Cherokee we thought about. Again - that's 8 years ago.
My truck? A regular cab, 2 wd, 2000 model year GMC pickup with 175125 miles on it when I bought it.
As for land and a house...........dude, if you think you can drive 30 minutes out of the city and buy 5 acres for $5000, you're smoking crack. Not here in Ohio you can't. $5000 per acre won't cut it..........you're looking at more like $7000 per acre. Probably more as the $7 grand per acre is what farm ground goes for............so, your whole analogy is tossed out the window. 5 acres to build on.........unless you're by a prison, comes out to over $35,000. For the land.
And there's no way in hell you're building a 2000 sq. foot home for sweat and $17,000. Water...........digging a well. Sewage. Hell, the materials for building the house alone would cost more than $17,000.
I agree with you in that people always want bigger and better........but seriously, 5 acres for a total of $5000 ??? Point that livable place out to me, and sign me up for 100 acres.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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Quote:
Can people lay off the 3 vehicles and 2 4 wheelers crap? Please?????????
4 wheelers are 11 years old.
Our newest vehicle is my work vehicle - it's a 2006, with 100,000 miles on it. Next newest is my wifes, 2006 Hummer H3 - and before anyone goes gaga on that - it was cheaper than the Jeep Grand Cherokee we thought about. Again - that's 8 years ago.
My truck? A regular cab, 2 wd, 2000 model year GMC pickup with 175125 miles on it when I bought it.
As for land and a house...........dude, if you think you can drive 30 minutes out of the city and buy 5 acres for $5000, you're smoking crack. Not here in Ohio you can't. $5000 per acre won't cut it..........you're looking at more like $7000 per acre. Probably more as the $7 grand per acre is what farm ground goes for............so, your whole analogy is tossed out the window. 5 acres to build on.........unless you're by a prison, comes out to over $35,000. For the land.
And there's no way in hell you're building a 2000 sq. foot home for sweat and $17,000. Water...........digging a well. Sewage. Hell, the materials for building the house alone would cost more than $17,000.
I agree with you in that people always want bigger and better........but seriously, 5 acres for a total of $5000 ??? Point that livable place out to me, and sign me up for 100 acres.
Lay off what? You like to throw my car and my military experience in my damn face all the time. Don't like the taste of your own medicine huh? Serves you right.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,851 |
Quote:
Quote:
Can people lay off the 3 vehicles and 2 4 wheelers crap? Please?????????
4 wheelers are 11 years old.
Our newest vehicle is my work vehicle - it's a 2006, with 100,000 miles on it. Next newest is my wifes, 2006 Hummer H3 - and before anyone goes gaga on that - it was cheaper than the Jeep Grand Cherokee we thought about. Again - that's 8 years ago.
My truck? A regular cab, 2 wd, 2000 model year GMC pickup with 175125 miles on it when I bought it.
As for land and a house...........dude, if you think you can drive 30 minutes out of the city and buy 5 acres for $5000, you're smoking crack. Not here in Ohio you can't. $5000 per acre won't cut it..........you're looking at more like $7000 per acre. Probably more as the $7 grand per acre is what farm ground goes for............so, your whole analogy is tossed out the window. 5 acres to build on.........unless you're by a prison, comes out to over $35,000. For the land.
And there's no way in hell you're building a 2000 sq. foot home for sweat and $17,000. Water...........digging a well. Sewage. Hell, the materials for building the house alone would cost more than $17,000.
I agree with you in that people always want bigger and better........but seriously, 5 acres for a total of $5000 ??? Point that livable place out to me, and sign me up for 100 acres.
Lay off what? You like to throw my car and my military experience in my damn face all the time. Don't like the taste of your own medicine huh? Serves you right.
I love the smell of my own medicine.
I also like the fact that you state you want to be in the 1%, an admirable goal, and that you won't go back to the hood.............yet you want others to do it?
Hey, I've admitted it..........yup, 3 vehicles.........with a combined 405,000 miles on them. I must be crazy rich, right? No brand new BMW for me...........but, because I didn't "come from the hood" I don't know what's up, right?
You came from the hood, and you use that as a feather in your hat. You served in the military, and you use that as a feather in your hat.
Good for you, and thank you.
You speak from your perspective..........and that's great. I speak from my perspective and life experience.
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People that are repeat offenders are just plain not too bright ! Throw any and all statistics about social and economical reasons why but bottom line is if you get burned by the fire twice and go back for a third time then you aren't very damn smart ! IMO if you are gonna be a criminal then be smart about it .
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Quote:
As for land and a house...........dude, if you think you can drive 30 minutes out of the city and buy 5 acres for $5000, you're smoking crack. Not here in Ohio you can't. $5000 per acre won't cut it..........you're looking at more like $7000 per acre. Probably more as the $7 grand per acre is what farm ground goes for............so, your whole analogy is tossed out the window. 5 acres to build on.........unless you're by a prison, comes out to over $35,000. For the land.
And there's no way in hell you're building a 2000 sq. foot home for sweat and $17,000. Water...........digging a well. Sewage. Hell, the materials for building the house alone would cost more than $17,000.
I agree with you in that people always want bigger and better........but seriously, 5 acres for a total of $5000 ??? Point that livable place out to me, and sign me up for 100 acres.
LOL I love a challenge =) I hope you can handle it =)
How about land that is free or almost free?
http://eartheasy.com/blog/2011/10/free-land-are-you-ready-to-try-homesteading/
http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/free-land.aspx#axzz391jVfSF3
How about FREE building materials or very cheap? Houses stronger than the current house you live in and much healthier for your breathing environment.
Cob Homes:
https://www.youtube.com/v/Cjb709Tx7MA
https://www.youtube.com/v/FZS2ZEN2bTs
https://www.youtube.com/v/9iGJ0nYlp5Q
This is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak. There is so much information out there on different ways to build cheaply. There are towns that will PAY you to move out there, will give you free land, tax credits, and even help you find work. There are even a growing number of small communities that will help you with the labor by volunteering.
We are all held prisoner by a system that encourages debt. We must have THINGS. Then we need SPACE for those things so that the required amount of space just keeps growing and growing. Half the time those things are just there collecting dust. Yet to get all those things you have to work more and more until your just working like a nut for your things and a place to store your things. Most people will never understand or accept this until they come upon hard times and have to start making some hard choices about what they NEED to keep their family together, fed, and safe.
So what do you need? To survive you need shelter from the weather and animals and to sleep feeling safe. You need food and water. A place to cook that food. A way to go to the bathroom and not be swimming in it so to speak. A way to earn income because we have land taxes and its hard to travel with out a car. We also need clothes. Children also require an education by law which is good. That education doesn't have to be in a city school though. You might feel that but it's not required and in some cases is a detriment to a child. Homeschooling and online schooling are just a few alternatives. Again we are talking NEEDS and not WANTS here.
There is free land available but I prefer land that has a stream or some kind of moving water on it. If you can find that kind of land it is very easy to build hydro electric and produce more electricity than you will ever need. In same cases you can make so much electricity that if you output to the grid you can make hundreds or even thousands of dollars a month doing basically nothing once its set up. Several states require the electric company to buy your electricity that you feed the grid. The cost of start up is about 2,000 to 10,000 dollars.
Little about hydro electric and some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/v/k0BLOKEZ3KU
https://www.youtube.com/v/QpBXNSmOpWI
https://www.youtube.com/v/w8Iq0b2jwyw
There is a ton more out there to learn about but I know if I make a huge post most wont read it all so feel free to investigate Permaculture, free energy, free land, cob houses, straw bale houses, earthbag houses, earthship housing, aquaponics, rainwater catchment, grey water systems, and many more.
If your smart enough you can even make free gasoline from a wood burning stove.
https://www.youtube.com/v/wP5qbKS_8VY
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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