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All very good points. I think the Cavs Front Office are aware of them too.  But yeah, we can't just simply trade Wiggins for KL. It's not that simple. And while we might be bidding against ourselves, as soon as we take Wiggins off the table, is our package better than the Bulls or Warriors? I don't think so. And yes, it might not matter what other teams offer if KL says he's only accepting a trade to the Cavs, but Minnesota Can just not do the deal and keep him. A years worth of KL might be better for them then taking on Bennett, Waiters and late 1st round picks (especially if they'll keep him just for spite). It's a very complex situation we have. Nothing to do but debate or wait.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I don't know whether we could put together a package without Wiggins that would trump what Chicago and GS are offering. Part of that is because I don't know what any of the offers are, and partly because I don't know how much value the Flip and the Wolves' owner put on tanking. I personally think that if you're going to be bad (and the Wolves without Love are BAD), you might as well bottom out as much as you can to maximize value in the draft. It has worked well for teams like the Rockets (putting together assets for the Harden trade) and the Cavs, and likely will for the 76ers in the coming years, but not everybody sees it that way. Flip is one of the guys that doesn't see it that way... that's what happens when you are the coach and GM. It might be worthwhile to get a team like Philly involved as they probably value the picks and young players relatively more than a guy like Thad Young, who would be traded to Minnesota.
In any case, I'd offer up something like Waiters, Bennett, several picks including the Memphis and Miami picks, maybe a couple other minor assets, and expiring/non guaranteed contracts. If that doesn't get it done, so be it. Keep working on other offers.
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Quote:
And, I say this hating what we are doing to Twolf fans. It stinks for them to have lost Garnett not too long ago and now losing Love. Both times for a little youth talent and some draft picks. It completely starts their rebuild over and has got to be torturous. But, in the NBA, the players have the power and this is what is setup.
I can't feel "that" bad for them about Garnett. He was on the team for 12 years before the trade. Losing K Love certainly stinks for them with his age and basically wanting to escape. It is pretty similar to Lebron except you know...Lebron is Lebron.
I've always felt the lesser teams of the north are basically our breathren. Until the Lions started cheapshotting people I felt that way, but certainly teams like the Timberwolves and Buffalo Bills are teams I wish well.
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I agree. If we don't have a rivalry with the team (and they are not in Detroit, Chicago or Pittsburgh), then I generally root for them to do well. It will be strange rooting against the Bills this season (since we own their 1st round draft pick).
#gmstrong
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Quote:
only the Cavs are talking with them was my point there.
I wasn't criticizing you, man. I know I have been fighting w/a lot of these guys, but I promise, I did not say that in a harsh way.
You are making reasonable points. It's all good.
I like your point about Garnett. How good did Minnesota get by getting those picks in the Garnett trade? How did Boston make out?
I am sorry, and this comment is not directed towards you, but I really, really can't understand the point of view that claims we would be wrong to give up our future [Wiggins] for the present [Love].
The time is NOW!!! We have LeBron NOW!!! We have Kyrie now. It's time. NOW!!! Even w/Love, it will take two years to be "the team." Two years w/Love. LeBron will be how old?
Without Love? Pffftttt.............our talent will be ready when LeBron will be a shell of his former self.
One more thing that people don't seem to understand.............guys will want to come here the next few years just to play w/LeBron. I am not saying Miller and Jones are great, but why did they come here? Why does Love want to come here now?
Do you guys REALLY think guys will want to come here to play w/Wiggins, Bennett, and our future number first round draft choice? 
Come on, man!. Get real............they will come here to play w/LeBron. Add Love to that and who would not want to come here to win a championship?
I cant' believe this even an argument.
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I agree. it's a combination of fans being greedy, and the overall Cleveland pessimism. I can't see Love leaving after 1 or 2 years. I don't think he will play the rest of his career here, but I do think he will play here until Lebron's prime is over. Wiggins may take a few years to develop. Why sacrifice part of Lebron's prime for Andrew Wiggins? There just comes a time when you go all in, and this is the time..
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Trade Wiggins to Minny, then resign him when he's good in 7 years.
No one stays there, because no one wins there...
..Not while Khan is there at least...
It took everything from KG just to get to the WCF...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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No one comes to Cleveland either. Not even Michael Redd would come here.
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Here is an article about the Garnett trade to Boston. Quote:
Five players, two picks sent to Wolves for Garnett
Updated: August 1, 2007, 11:52 AM ET
ESPN.com news services
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BOSTON -- Kevin Garnett gives Boston a new Big Three that brings the Celtics much closer to what their old Big Three delivered -- an NBA title.
The Celtics, who have 16 championships but have gone without one for more than two decades, obtained the former MVP and 10-time All-Star on Tuesday in a 7-for-1 deal -- the NBA's biggest trade for one player.
Boston sent the Minnesota Timberwolves forwards Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green, guard Sebastian Telfair and center Theo Ratliff, two first-round draft picks and cash considerations. Besides Ratliff, 34, the other four are 24 or younger.
With Paul Pierce and Ray Allen already on the roster, the Celtics have been transformed from a promising collection of youngsters who had the NBA's second-worst record last season into an instant contender in the mediocre Eastern Conference.
"This is probably my best opportunity at winning a ring," Garnett said. "It was a no-brainer."
Garnett liked the idea so much he gave the Celtics something of a discount when he subsequently signed an extension.
Based on salary figures obtained by ESPN.com's Marc Stein, Garnett signed a three-year extension worth just over $51 million, with $8.8 million in trade bonuses that take the overall value of the extension to $60 million. Garnett eliminated the early termination portion of his contract as part of the transaction and will see that trade kicker spread out evenly over the next five seasons.
The three-year extension breaks down to earnings of $14.7 million in the 2009-10 season, $17.1 million in 2010-11 and $19.5 million in 2011-12. Garnett was already scheduled to earn $22 million and $23 million over the next two seasons.
The Celtics won their last championship, the third with the original Big Three of Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, in 1986. Two members of that club orchestrated Tuesday's blockbuster trade -- Celtics executive director of basketball operations Danny Ainge and Timberwolves vice president of basketball operations Kevin McHale.
But Ainge cautioned that it's much too early to equate the two trios.
"These guys will never be the Big Three until they win" a championship, he said.
The Timberwolves get the Celtics' first-round pick in 2009, unless it is among the top three, and a return of Minnesota's conditional first-round draft pick obtained in January 2006 when they sent Ricky Davis to the Timberwolves for Wally Szczerbiak.
The previous biggest NBA trade for one player came in 1999, when Houston obtained Scottie Pippen from Portland for six players.
"I'm confident I made the right decision here, even though that it was a difficult one," said Wolves owner Glen Taylor, who made it clear that Garnett did not request a trade.
The Garnett trade eclipses the latest one involving an NBA star, Allen Iverson. Philadelphia traded the guard and Ivan McFarlin to Denver last Dec. 19 for Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two first-round draft choices.
"This is a tremendous day," said a smiling Pierce, who had been frustrated for years as the sole star on a rebuilding team. "I feel like a rookie again."
The key to the deal for Minnesota is Jefferson, whom the Celtics were reluctant to part with. He had a breakout season in 2006-07, his third with Boston, when he averaged 16 points and 11 rebounds after struggling with injuries. He joins a youth movement in Minnesota, which drafted forward Corey Brewer from Florida.
"The past few seasons our on-court performance has been disappointing to our fans, myself, [owner] Glen Taylor and the entire organization," McHale said. "Through this trade, we have obtained very talented, young players with a lot of potential, future flexibility with the salary cap and two future first-round NBA draft picks.
"Personally, I want to thank Kevin for all of his hard work through the years and what he has meant to the Timberwolves franchise."
The teams had discussed a trade for the 6-foot-11 Garnett, the NBA's leading rebounder each of the past four seasons, before the June draft. But he preferred other teams than Boston, and the Celtics didn't want to give up Jefferson.
The acquisition of Allen, 32, in a draft-day trade with Seattle to go with Pierce, 29, was a major factor in changing Garnett's mind. It gave Garnett, 31, a better chance at a title after Minnesota missed the last three playoffs in the tough Western Conference.
He also realized that he didn't fit in with Minnesota's strategy of rebuilding with youth and was amazed at all the activity to finalize the trade.
"It's like being in a Lamborghini doing 200 [mph] with your head stuck out the window," Garnett said. "It's been like a whirlwind the last 72 hours."
The Celtics' other starters are second-year point guard Rajon Rondo and center Kendrick Perkins. Only nine players are under contract, although they are expected to sign second-round draft picks Glen Davis, a forward from LSU, and Gabe Pruitt, a guard from Southern California.
The Timberwolves came within two wins of the NBA Finals in 2004. Garnett averaged 24.2 points and a league-high 13.9 rebounds that season, joining Bird as the only players to average at least 20 points, 10 rebounds and five assists for five consecutive years.
But Minnesota has fired two coaches and not made the playoffs since. Garnett never said he was unhappy and never asked to be traded, but expressed frustration with some of McHale's personnel decisions and challenged him to upgrade the roster.
"I'd say this certainly is a big day in our franchise's history," Taylor said. "Kevin Garnett has really meant a lot to our franchise, not only as a member of our team, but as a friend.
"On the other hand, it was time we had to make a decision on the direction of this team, look toward the future and try to figure out the best way we can develop a team that has a better record and better success than we've had."
Garnett was the fifth player drafted in 1995, coming out of Farragut Academy in Illinois and skipping college. He has averaged more than 20 points and 10 rebounds for each of the last nine seasons. He is among five players in NBA history with at least 19,000 points, 10,000 rebounds and 4,000 assists. The others are Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Karl Malone and Charles Barkley. He also is an outstanding defensive player and an excellent passer.
The Timberwolves had lost 60 games in each of the four seasons before Garnett arrived. But in his second season, he helped lead them to the first of eight straight playoff appearances.
Before his third season, Garnett got a six-year, $126 million extension in 1997.
With Garnett, seven-time All-Star Allen and five-time All-Star Pierce, the Celtics upgraded their profile in a sports market dominated by the New England Patriots and Boston Red Sox. Owners John Henry of the Red Sox and Robert Kraft of the Patriots and Boston Bruins executive vice president Charlie Jacobs all called to congratulate Celtics co-owner Wyc Grousbeck.
In his four full seasons as executive director of basketball operations, Ainge has stockpiled youngsters. He could be patient and let them develop or speed the process through trades for stars.
"We are delighted to have a core of three All-Star talents to anchor our team," Grousbeck said.
Marc Stein is a senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
Well guys................how did that one work out for Minnesota? 
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We have LeBron here, now.
Miller and Jones would have never signed here w/out LeBron. Ray Allen would not even THINK of signing here w/out LeBron. No way would Love want to come here w/out LeBron.
Stop w/the old school Cleveland negativity. This is the team that actually has a chance. Think big.
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Redd didn't sign with us when Lebron was here. I just don't think Wiggins will come here to play with a 37 year old LBJ and a 29 year old Irving. This is our only chance at ever having Wiggins.
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Worked out pretty well for Boston...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
We have LeBron here, now.
Miller and Jones would have never signed here w/out LeBron. Ray Allen would not even THINK of signing here w/out LeBron. No way would Love want to come here w/out LeBron.
Stop w/the old school Cleveland negativity. This is the team that actually has a chance. Think big.
I agree..you have a chance to make a once in a career move...I don't know why this is such a big deal...you have a chance to get a 26/12 guy for a guy who may or may not be a good nba player and another guy that was historically bad his first year and a pick...I don't even hesitate...which makes me wonder if wiggins is holding the deal up because the cavs GM is as blind as some of the fans. You have a big 3 of irving, james and love...people will be lining up to chase rings for the next 5 years..People talk about wiggins defense...we don't know how good it will be...sure he was good in college, but he hasn't had to guard players with NBA bodies...he's a beanpole. If you have that big 3, you could find a defensive specialist to come in and be that guy. Hell you could probably get world peace to come in for a minimum contract just to play defense, or use that hayward chip to make room for a guy like marion. Theres going to be plenty of options moving forward..you can't let a untested rookie hold up a chance to get a top 5 player not yet in his prime
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Well guys................how did that one work out for Minnesota?
Not sure what you are insinuating, but let's see ...
Quote:
Boston sent the Minnesota Timberwolves forwards Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green, guard Sebastian Telfair and center Theo Ratliff, two first-round draft picks and cash considerations. Besides Ratliff, 34, the other four are 24 or younger.
So considering that Boston traded 5 players that were drafted no earlier than #13 and two draft picks for a rarely injured, 10-time all-star who regularly made all-defensive teams ... I'm thinking a trade for three top-5 draft picks (Thompson, Bennett and Waiters), two other players, and a couple of first round draft picks should be MORE than enough for a 3-time all-star who has played less than 75% of his possible starts.
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Man, I remember the hype about Sebastian Telfair .... "Through the Fire", and how he was going to be the next great thing.
We had him years later on the Cavaliers, after the hype had completely died.
As far as that trade compared to this one .... you know as well as anyone else, that no 2 trades are ever really equal. All it takes is one player booming, one busting, one traded 1st round pick changing from a low lottery pick into a #1 overall, (like with the Irving pick we got in the Baron Davis deal) or an injury to completely change the dynamics of a trade. Every trade is like a woman .... each has her own charm ..... and her own risks. Some look like a sure thing, and others wind up being the right one.
I still worry about bidding against ourselves, and giving up assets we can use to turn this from a big 3 into a completely dominant super team. We have the assets to do so .... as long as we don't panic and give everything away. (and yes, I want Love on the team ..... and think that him being here would be huge) I just don't want to drive up the price by bidding against ourselves.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It's crazy. you could very easily find a Bruce Bowen, than a Kevin Love.. Assuming we only give up, Bennett/Wiggins/picks, we still have Waiters, TT, Delly, Miller, Andy, Harris, Jones, Powell, full MLE, plus whatever picks are left over. Compared to the garbage we had the first time around, it's all most have ever hoped for..
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But it just can't be those players and the picks. The cap doesn't match up. That's why I'm extremely hesitant to make this trade. Though I also don't think we need to give up Wiggins for him either.
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Well Minnesota did just sign Mo Williams... So maybe we aren't waiting for Wiggins, were waiting for Mo to be eligible  If Minny wants to throw a reasonable deal at Okafor to get him here also I'd be fine with that... Might be worried if they sign Ben Wallace and Wally Z though
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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we have those expiring/non-guaranteed scrub players. throw those in, and it should match.
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Well .... Love makes about $15, 719,063.
Bennett makes around $5.5 million
Wiggins also makes around $5.5 million.
So we need another $4 million.
I really want the Cavaliers to hold onto Haywood, because that huge non guaranteed contract is a huge chip for a team that will be over the cap next year. (assuming that we trade for Love, and keep the guys we don't trade) We have about $3 million in non guaranteed deals this year.
So, we would pick up $15.7 million.
We would trade away $11 million in the contacts of Wiggins and Bennett ..... plus the $3 million in non guaranteed deals .... and that leaves us at $14 million on our side, or $1.7 million short. However ...... we also have that $3 million trade exemption from trading Gee. We could use that to balance the trade, and have $1.3 million still left to take on salary. (I think that you can slit that kind of exemption)
I think that would work anyway. I am far from an expert on hos the NBA works.
Now if the Wolves insist on dumping other contracts on their side, then that's where I would draw the line.
The easiest way to handle this would to use Andy as a trade chip, but Lebron really likes Andy, so that's not gonna happen.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The only reason I'd include Andy is if we did that to make room to sign a guy like Okafor.
We need big guys. Legitimate ones. This surge of 6'8 PFs sucks (Yes I know Love is like 6'8, but he doesn't play like it)
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Michael Redd? That was back in the day, you know, before LeBron won two championships. Let me be direct, are you denying that many players would love to play w/LeBron?
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Quote:
Quote:
Well guys................how did that one work out for Minnesota?
Not sure what you are insinuating
I was insinuating that when you have a chance at a PROVEN, GREAT player, you take it rather than HOPING for your guys w/POTENTIAL will lead you to greatness.
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Quote:
Report: Kevin Love Won’t Sign Extension With Any Team He’s Traded To
The Kevin Love situation has taken an interesting turn.
Bob Finnan of the News-Herald reports that the Minnesota Timberwolves power forward has no plans to immediately re-sign with any team that he’s traded to.
“In a rather new development, it now looks as if Love won’t sign an extension with any team in which he’s traded, even the Cavaliers,” Finnan writes. “He can get far more money if he becomes a free agent in the summer of 2015, and re-signs with the team in which he is traded. That puts considerably more risk in a trade, especially if the Cavaliers are giving up a prospect like Wiggins.”
Love’s unwillingness to sign an extension puts the Timberwolves in a tough spot if they decide to trade him. Teams likely will be reluctant to give up quality assets — whether it’s a talented young players like Wiggins, an established star such as Golden State’s Klay Thompson, or a potential top-five lottery pick — to acquire Love without any assurances that he will sign long-term.
The Warriors reportedly are already unsure if they want to include Thompson in a potential package for Love, and the information in Finnan’s report, if true, might make that decision rather easy.
As for the Cavaliers, giving up Wiggins — a player with superstar potential — is risky without an extension from Love. Even with LeBron James and Love, the Cavaliers would not be a lock to win the 2015 NBA Finals given the strength of the Western Conference and a few quality teams in the East such as the Chicago Bulls and Indiana Pacers.
If the Cavaliers’ young players, including Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson, don’t develop as expected in 2014-15, all of a sudden Cleveland might not seem like a good long-term fit for Love (if he’s traded there).
If Love did reach free agency in the summer of 2015, he likely would have many, many teams interested in his services. Teams certainly will look to free up salary cap space for that free-agent class, which could include Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol and Rajon Rondo.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2014/07/report-kevin-love-wont-sign-extension-with-any-team-hes-traded-to/
Not willing to sign an extension puts a different spin on this. 
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I'm wondering if Love would say that so the Cavs wouldn't have to give up as much to get him, thereby making the Cavs even stronger? Wishful thinking, but you never know.
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I was insinuating that when you have a chance at a PROVEN, GREAT player, you take it rather than HOPING for your guys w/POTENTIAL will lead you to greatness.
Okay, so how does that example prove your point? Like I mentioned in the rest of my post, Boston gave up a bunch of guys that were drafted in the mid-first round for a guy that was a Top-5 player who also played defense. It was one of them most lopsided trades ever made. I also didn't see them trading Rondo to make the move either.
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LOL............never mind.
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Quote:
I'm wondering if Love would say that so the Cavs wouldn't have to give up as much to get him, thereby making the Cavs even stronger? Wishful thinking, but you never know.
I have come around to that line of thinking. If Love forces his way to Cleveland, we can get him without giving up Wiggins. Maybe that's a deadline deal for Waiters, Bennett, first round picks and more. Maybe its a sign and trade next year for less. Maybe we lose out on him to another team. Like you pointed out before, there are risks both ways.
Here's a question, what is the most you would be willing to trade to get Love? Like what's your cutoff point, where adding literally anything else would make it a no-go for you? Mostly curious here.
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Quote:
I'm wondering if Love would say that so the Cavs wouldn't have to give up as much to get him, thereby making the Cavs even stronger? Wishful thinking, but you never know.
That was my first thought reading this, as well.
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm wondering if Love would say that so the Cavs wouldn't have to give up as much to get him, thereby making the Cavs even stronger? Wishful thinking, but you never know.
That was my first thought reading this, as well.
I would think he has to be telling the truth. He can't say that, force a lower return for Minnesota and then sign an extension right away. That's cold hearted.
I'm okay with trading for Kevin if he's a 1 year rental, but I'm not giving Wiggins up then.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I'm wondering if Love would say that so the Cavs wouldn't have to give up as much to get him, thereby making the Cavs even stronger? Wishful thinking, but you never know.
That was my first thought reading this, as well.
There was also something about the salary rules limiting what he could sign for is he does so this year, as opposed to next year .....
Terry Pluto had an article on it.
Regardless, if I don't get a signature, then Love is worth far less. However ....... we still have to manage to match up salaries, and that means giving up either Wiggins or Waiters, along with Bennett. Love carries a $15.7 million salary, and we are over the cap. AFAIK, we only have that one $3 million trade exemption, and the non-guaranteed deals we traded for. That gives us the ability to bring back $6 million out of the blue, despite being over the cap .... but we still have to balance the trade.
OK, here is that Pluto article:
Terry Pluto's Talkin' about Kevin Love, Cleveland Browns and Indians | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2014/07/terrys_talkin_about_kevin_love.html
ABOUT KEVIN LOVE
1. The Cavs definitely want Kevin Love, and the Minnesota forward really wants to play for the Cavs. Nothing new in that news. The issue is the details, and there are a lot of them in a trade of this magnitude.
2. Love is guaranteed $15.7 million this season, with a player option for $16.7 million in 2015-16. I wrote a column insisting the Cavs should demand Love pick up his option before making a deal.
3. Talking to some NBA executives, that could be a problem. One executive explained how the best move for Love may be to come to the Cavs on the current deal -- no changes. He becomes a free agent in 2015, then signs a five-year deal for the maximum (could be more than $100 million) to stay here.
4. The new labor agreement allows players to sign a five-year deal (once they are free agents) with their current teams. If they switch teams, the longest contract is four years. It's why Carmelo Anthony ended up returning to New York. That's where he could get the most cash -- $25 million more than elsewhere.
5. If Love picks up his option for 2015-16 this summer, the most that a team can immediately add is a two-year extension. I know, this gets complicated. The point is there are a variety of reasons for Love to keep his current deal, and then hit the open market in 2015.
6. I'm hearing Love will not pick up his option -- that he would prefer to go to the Cavs on his current deal, then presumably enjoy being successful playing with LeBron James. Remember, he also has done a commercial with Kyrie Irving. He sees marketing possibilities in Cleveland -- along with a chance to win big.
7. I'm hearing the Cavs realize they may have to accept Love's current deal and gamble on him enjoying playing in Cleveland and with James. Then they will try to sign him for a maximum deal in 2015. So don't be shocked if a deal is made with his contract situation staying the same.
8. I've been told the team hasn't had any real talks with Minnesota Love for at least a week. Minnesota certainly enjoys all the rumors. Team president/coach Flip Saunders knows he has to make the right deal. The former Cuyahoga Heights star is taking over a 40-42 team that wants the playoffs this season. That's why the Wolves pursued a deal with Golden State starting with Klay Thompson and David Lee -- two established scorers.
9. But if you're new Warriors coach Steve Kerr, the reason you trade for Love is to win now. Giving up Thompson is not the way to do it. That's why Kerr has countered with Harrison Barnes and Lee. Barnes is no longer considered a top prospect. He averaged 9.5 points and shot .399 from the field (.347 on 3-pointers). He has trouble creating his own shots.
10. That's why a Cleveland offer of Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett and draft picks presents a bit of a problem for Minnesota. If the Wolves do want to make the playoffs, it's doubtful this trade delivers. Wiggins oozes athleticism, but he remains a raw talent at 19. Asking him to play a significant scoring role immediately is probably too much.
11. If I'm Saunders, I'm asking for Dion Waiters, Bennett and Wiggins. I know the Cavs want Love, and I want at least one proven NBA talent -- and that's Waiters.
12. No clue how the Cavs would respond, but don't be surprised if it comes up.
13. In terms of what is best for Wiggins' career, it's staying put. Because of James, Kyrie Irving and other veterans, he would not be expected to deliver a lot on offense. His role would be to defend, to fly down the court on the fast break and fit in with an emerging playoff team.
14. In Minnesota, Wiggins will be the focal point of media and fan attention. Not so here -- and James would be an excellent role model for the 6-foot-8 shooting guard/small forward.
15. Chicago is supposedly talking about a package with Taj Gibson, Doug McDermott and Nikola Mirotic. McDermott and Mirotic are both rookies, although Mirotic has had a good career in Europe.
16. For now, Minnesota will not trade Love to the Cavs unless Wiggins is part of the package. I keep hearing that over and over from several places. I also hear that the Cavs love Wiggins, but also know the best chance for a title is in the next few years. Love is a far better bet to win now.
17. Minnesota could keep Love and try to win as many games as possible, then work a sign-and-trade next summer. It's doubtful Minnesota will go in that direction, but it is being discussed.
18. The other possibility is a mid-season trade. But that runs the risk of Love being injured. Odds are a deal is done before training camp.
19. Signing Wiggins to his rookie contract has cooled talks because he can't be traded for at least 30 days. There will a lot of rumors (good, bad and flat out fabrication) before this issue is settled.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
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Here's a question, what is the most you would be willing to trade to get Love? Like what's your cutoff point, where adding literally anything else would make it a no-go for you? Mostly curious here.
Others can answer that better than I can. I don't follow the NBA as much as I used to. The Decision kinda turned me off. Also, I have never been real good w/all the "value" side of sports, including football.
Earlier in this thread, I said I would be okay w/giving up Wiggins, Bennett, and our first round pick next year. That seems fair to me.
Now, I don't know how that would work out in terms of the cap, contracts, etc. Other guys know a lot, lot more about that stuff than I do.
My line of thinking is that we need another great player to pair w/LeBron. I don't think we have a tremendous amount of time to develop the roster, especially w/guys who are unproven. We really don't know if Wiggins will be great. He's a great athlete, but it's all potential right now. I think having LeBron, Love, and Kyrie gives us a great nucleus. I think Blatt is an innovative guy. I think the first two would thrive in some of things he likes to do offensively. I think others will come here cheaper to play w/that trio. I think a championship w/that group is a distinct possibility w/in the next 1-3 years. Two years is the number that is in my head, but I wanna give myself some leeway.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,974 Likes: 355 |
Here is what the Cavaliers have:
Lebron: $20,644,400
Andy: $9,704,545
Kyrie: $7,070,730
Bennett: $5,563.920
Wiggins: $5,510,640
Thompson: $$5,138,430
Waiters: $4,062,000
Haywood: $2,213,688
Lucas: $1,600,000 (Non Guaranteed)
Thomas: $948,163 (Non Guaranteed)
Harris: $884,879
Delly: $816,482 (Non Guaranteed)
Erik Murphy $816,482 (Non Guaranteed, but with some conditions that might guarantee the deal)
That puts us at $64,974,359 for the year. The cap is $63.2 million.
AFAIK, we still have that $3 million trade exemption from the Alonzo Gee trade.
Kevin Love makes $15,719,063. The Wolves are currently at $68,979,954 in salaries for 2014-2015, which puts them over the cap. They want to reduce that number. We do have assets that would allow them to do so, with the non guaranteed deals and the trade exemption.
That's what I know .... how it all fits with the NBA rules as far as trades between 2 teams that are over the cap is beyond me. (although, the Cavaliers could be under the cap if they renounce the non guaranteed deals they added)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
Here's a question, what is the most you would be willing to trade to get Love? Like what's your cutoff point, where adding literally anything else would make it a no-go for you? Mostly curious here.
Others can answer that better than I can. I don't follow the NBA as much as I used to. The Decision kinda turned me off. Also, I have never been real good w/all the "value" side of sports, including football.
Earlier in this thread, I said I would be okay w/giving up Wiggins, Bennett, and our first round pick next year. That seems fair to me.
Now, I don't know how that would work out in terms of the cap, contracts, etc. Other guys know a lot, lot more about that stuff than I do.
My line of thinking is that we need another great player to pair w/LeBron. I don't think we have a tremendous amount of time to develop the roster, especially w/guys who are unproven. We really don't know if Wiggins will be great. He's a great athlete, but it's all potential right now. I think having LeBron, Love, and Kyrie gives us a great nucleus. I think Blatt is an innovative guy. I think the first two would thrive in some of things he likes to do offensively. I think others will come here cheaper to play w/that trio. I think a championship w/that group is a distinct possibility w/in the next 1-3 years. Two years is the number that is in my head, but I wanna give myself some leeway.
The part that bothers me about all of this is there really is no guarantee that we will have Love more than 1-2 years. When Boston traded for Garnett, there was an extension as part of the deal where Boston had Garnett locked up below-market value for 5 years, and Garnett was an almost uniquely well rounded player. I am actually not so much worried about Love leaving in free agency in 1-2 years as I am him getting hurt for a playoff run (look at what has happened with OKC when Ibaka and Westbrook have gotten hurt), or the new CBA making it impossible or impractical to keep the team together and add pieces.
I agree wholeheartedly with all the basketball stuff. I was actually originally in the pro trade Wiggins group, and still wouldn't be upset if he ended up being traded. It's more what's being discussed on top of Wiggins that gives me pause, and also the fact that we can leverage the crappy situation that the Wolves are in plus Love's supposed desire to play in Cleveland to get KL for pennies on the dollar. Waiters, Bennett, a couple first round picks and some extras for Love is obviously a lopsided trade in our favor, but it might just get the job done. Heck I might do the same or something similar next year in a sign and trade. The Wolves would be in an even worse negotiating position but Love would presumably come with a 5 year deal then.
The Cavs are strong contenders with or without Love. Love obviously improves our chances, especially in the immediate future which needs to be maximized while having Lebron, but I still think having some patience will pay off. If the Love deal never materializes, we still have plenty of young players and assets to make a big trade for someone else. Of course, it probably won't be for a player who is as good as or fits as well as Love. It's a tough spot. I can really see both sides to it.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
Here's a question, what is the most you would be willing to trade to get Love? Like what's your cutoff point, where adding literally anything else would make it a no-go for you? Mostly curious here.
Before the news came out that he wouldn't sign an extension ... Wiggins + Bennett and a pick was my absolute max. It would hurt, but I could at least live with it, and sometimes trades have to hurt a little for both sides to make it work.
Now, I have no idea. I've ALWAYS been for the idea of "waiting it out a bit". I don't understand the rush of getting Love in ASAP, regardless of the cost. We've got a complete unknown #1 draft pick who's an athletic freak, another #1 draft pick who's finally in great shape after putting up a disastrous year last year, a PF who had a down year trying to switch shooting hands, and a SF who was in an alpha-dog battle with Kyrie all of last year.
We want to trade any or all of these guys at the floor of their trade value for Love when they very well could thrive playing under Blatt and with Lebron. By December ... Minnesota could very well be on the outside looking in of the playoff picture and any 4 of our young assets could be breaking out into a career year.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
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Michael Redd? That was back in the day, you know, before LeBron won two championships. Let me be direct, are you denying that many players would love to play w/LeBron?
I'm denying that Andrew Wiggins will not want to play with a 37 year old LeBron James.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Good post w/logical reasons.
Excel: Who is in a rush to make the trade?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349 |
Quote:
Good post w/logical reasons.
Excel: Who is in a rush to make the trade?
You
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I have said NUMEROUS times that we should not hurry. Heck, we can't even make a trade yet due to Wiggins just being recently signed. You guys make up more crap. Up yous.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,974 Likes: 355
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,974 Likes: 355 |
Video at the link. . SI Now: Cavs' Coach Blatt evaluates Love and Wiggins - NBA - SI.com http://www.si.com/nba/video/2014/08/01/cavs-coach-blatt-evaluates-love-and-wiggins
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum NBA Thread, Part 2
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