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Apples and oranges is comparing NBA and MLB owners at all. I would grant your knowledge of Gilbert is greater than mine because I'm at best a peripheral Cavs fan. But my sense of Gilbert is that he is committed to winning, not that he's a crazy spender. In baseball, that means you need a payroll somewhere north of $100M - maybe even way north. BTW, the Indians just dumped about $22M in salary, so their payroll sits around $60M. I didn't have a problem with those moves, but - IMO - if Gilbert were the Indians owner, with his team at 5 games back of the Tigers, I really think he would have gone hard after David Price on the heels of the Masterson / Asdrubal salary dumps. Its just conjecture, but I think he's an "in it to win it" type of guy, while the Dolans seem more interested in wisely shepherding their investment.
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I agree to an extent, obviously basketball vs baseball is alot different, just mainly the impact of a superstar on your ability to win between the two. Obviously a lebron james makes a bigger difference on a 5 man team than it would in baseball. I think most peoples point when it comes to Dolans, people say oh if they start showing up to the ballpark they'll spend more money etc...Dolans have a pretty sweet TV deal, This area has proven if they have winning baseball they will show up..problem is, they have never gone out to get an upper tier player that people would come to see..Baseball is def. a "spend money to make money" business. Give people a reason to come watch and they will. These teams and moves they've made have been horrible...some of the worst FA signings ever...swisher, bourne, axford etc...just garbage signing with crazy contracts that hinder you for years.
What superstar could the Indians sign that would fill up the park like Lebron can? Or better yet, what one player could the Indians sign that would make us instant title contenders? We gave Grady Sizemore a pretty big contract and that came back to bite us. We gave Hafner a big contract back in the day and that came back to bite us as well. Do you think giving Albert Pujols 10 years/250 million would really help the Indians fill the park or get us into the playoffs every year? It's much more likely to hamstring us for years on end.
It's just two completely different sports, with two completely different salary rules.
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its is, but the point is the same...you have to give them a reason to show up..have a couple players that can produce will do that....currently we have 1, brantley...Detroit is alot worse than us when it comes to economy and they play in the same small market..yet they seem to bring in great players..and they consistently sell out and are in the postseason..coincidence...not likely. In baseball you have to spend money to win consistently and thus make money consistently.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Gee another insult. How refreshing.
What transpired? Really? 
Yeah, what transpired? You peaked my curiosity.
KING
We traded for Love ... apparently that was a big prediction that he went out on a very shaky limb to make.
See, this is the thing that blows my mind about you guys. Whatever..........I am stupid and you guys are brilliant. 
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This is what you said: Quote:
You still have the nerve to mock me after what just transpired? Seriously?
How else are we suppose to take that? What has "transpired" that vindicates anything that you were saying previously? We traded for Love ... pretty much everyone knew that was happening.
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This is what you said:
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You still have the nerve to mock me after what just transpired? Seriously?
How else are we suppose to take that? What has "transpired" that vindicates anything that you were saying previously? We traded for Love ... pretty much everyone knew that was happening.
Yeah, but still. . .
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There were all kinds of things said. If it was just trading for Love, it would not be worth mentioning. 
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And Shaq
At this point Shaq is probably a better option than the two I mentioned.
I dunno, I think Greg Oden still has some fight left in him.
So is he going to be suspended for the first two games of the season?
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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There were all kinds of things said. If it was just trading for Love, it would not be worth mentioning.
Ok, so what "transpired" that seems to have made you a basketball expert all of a sudden that is beyond being poked at a little?
So you were in favor of trading for KLove, as were most of us, as long as we didnt get raped my Minny to do it. Ok, and??
And really I wasnt even thinking of you in the sarcastic response I made. I was more just poking at the conversation as a whole. But now that I think about it, it was your harping on the Princeton Offense that fueled that whole convo.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I agree to an extent, obviously basketball vs baseball is alot different, just mainly the impact of a superstar on your ability to win between the two. Obviously a lebron james makes a bigger difference on a 5 man team than it would in baseball. I think most peoples point when it comes to Dolans, people say oh if they start showing up to the ballpark they'll spend more money etc...Dolans have a pretty sweet TV deal, This area has proven if they have winning baseball they will show up..problem is, they have never gone out to get an upper tier player that people would come to see..Baseball is def. a "spend money to make money" business. Give people a reason to come watch and they will. These teams and moves they've made have been horrible...some of the worst FA signings ever...swisher, bourne, axford etc...just garbage signing with crazy contracts that hinder you for years.
What superstar could the Indians sign that would fill up the park like Lebron can? Or better yet, what one player could the Indians sign that would make us instant title contenders? We gave Grady Sizemore a pretty big contract and that came back to bite us. We gave Hafner a big contract back in the day and that came back to bite us as well. Do you think giving Albert Pujols 10 years/250 million would really help the Indians fill the park or get us into the playoffs every year? It's much more likely to hamstring us for years on end.
It's just two completely different sports, with two completely different salary rules.
The Indians front office is very average. It's been average for years. Just look at the roster the past 6-7 years. No one is saying your payroll should be $150 million, but you farm system better be damn good, and when the time comes, ownership should step up and sign/trade for a few players that would put us over. We have been in division races for the past 3-4 years now, and the best ownership could do is Bourne and Swisher. That's pretty lame. Detroit adds David Price, while we add 2 prospects.
We just traded a guy, that we gave up Victor Martinez for. We are constantly spinning our wheels, and that's why I refuse to go to more than 1 game per year. I don't think the economy is an excuse either. The fanbase has the money, they refuse to give their money to Dolan..
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I don't know if MLB and NBA rules would allow it, but I'd love to see Dan Gilbert buy the Indians.
Here we go full circle ... 3 months ago, Dan Gilbert was a bum that had turned the Cavs situation into a mess despite two #1 picks. Now he's awesome again.
LOL That's true.
It's a results based business.
yebat' Putin
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j/c OVERLAND PARK, Kan. (AP) -- Andrew Wiggins told Kansas coach Bill Self that he wants to be traded from Cleveland to Minnesota because the No. 1 overall pick believes it will be better for his long-term future. Related Stories AP sources: Cavs, Wolves set for Love-Wiggins deal The Associated Press Report: Cavs, T'wolves agree to Love, Wiggins trade Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia Cavs finally reach deal for Kevin Love Comcast SportsNet Chicago Cavs to acquire Love in deal with T'Wolves: report Reuters Cavaliers to trade Wiggins for Love - report AFP Wiggins joined his former coach as a guest instructor at Self's basketball camp in suburban Kansas City on Sunday. And while Wiggins declined to speak to the few reporters at Shawnee Mission West High School, Self said the rookie wants to carve out his own legacy in the NBA. ''When all this trade stuff started, I talked to Andrew and Andrew told me, ''I hope I get traded,'' Self said. ''And I'm like, 'No you don't.' And he said, ''Coach, I do. It's better for me, knowing my personality and what I need to do, to go somewhere where I'm forced to be something as opposed to going in there where they're going to be patient with me and I'm going to be a piece.'' Earlier this week, The Associated Press and several other outlets reported a deal has been reached to send Wiggins, Anthony Bennett and a first-round pick to Minnesota for All-Star forward Kevin Love, who will join LeBron James and Kyrie Irving to form a new ''Big 3'' in Cleveland. The deal cannot be consummated until Aug. 23, when Wiggins is eligible to be traded. Self said that he initially thought everything worked out perfectly for Wiggins, who would have a chance to win immediately in Cleveland. But he also saw Wiggins' point: The low-key, soft-spoken swingman could fare better if he's carrying the weight of a franchise. That would never have happened if Wiggins was playing in James's lengthy shadow. ''Even though in a weird way everybody would love the opportunity to play with LeBron because you're guaranteed winning,'' Self said, ''for the longevity of his career, he needs to develop that mindset to be the guy, for him to be great, and I think being Minnesota will help him do that.'' Wiggins, who set numerous freshman records during his lone season with the Jayhawks, also appears to be a good fit for the Timberwolves. While his defense is already NBA-caliber, Wiggins will be able to develop his offense alongside point guard Ricky Rubio in an up-tempo system. Speaking of that offense, Wiggins took part in a modified game of horse on Saturday against former Kansas stars Jeff Graves, Jeff Hawkins and several young campers. After clanking a series of 3-pointers off the iron, Wiggins was the first contestant to be eliminated. He took the ouster with a smile and a shrug, just as he has all of the trade talk. ''I think he's handled everything great. He's excited,'' Self said. ''I think the whole thing that's been blown out of proportion a bit is that he's been in limbo. He's known since the summer that he'd be traded. It's OK. In some ways he's looking forward to going to Minnesota.'' Link
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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That kind of reads like he doesn't want to be in anybodys shadow.. He says that would be good for him based on his personality and blahblahblah... Not too difficult to read that and think he is a bit selfish...
yebat' Putin
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That kind of reads like he doesn't want to be in anybodys shadow.. He says that would be good for him based on his personality and blahblahblah... Not too difficult to read that and think he is a bit selfish...
I just think he's trying to make the best of a bad/awkward situation.
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Yea, I assumed some of that too.
yebat' Putin
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Yea, I assumed some of that too.
I hate the gf/exgf comparisons in sports (most notably with Lebron) but I liken it to you telling yourself you're going to find someone else when you get dumped.
I know there will be cleveland fans rooting against him to somehow validate this trade, but I'm pulling for Andrew Wiggins. It's up against him right now. That is a tough market to win in.
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I have come to like Wiggins in the short time he's been a Cavalier ...... and I hope that he does well in Minnesota. He seems like a nice young guy, and I enjoy rooting for that kind of kid.
I think that he really is trying to look on the bright side ...... that the trade will force him to improve faster ..... we'll see. I hope things work out for him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I like him too, but I don't think he's going to be a superstar...solid for sure..but he's not a guy you build a franchise around..I don't know that he'll ever get to where love is now. I wish him nothing but the best though. Everything I've heard about him is been positive from an attitude standpoint. Hard to root against someone like that. Though I'm not sure what the point of saying you want to be traded is, especially when everyone knows its happening anyways..Its kinda like "Oh you can't fire me, because I quit!"
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Lot for Wiggins to have to deal with. At his age, LeBron was still eating Big Mac's before the games.
Just saw LeBron's mini-presser he did today....it was no coincidence that LeBron omitted Wiggins and Bennett in his essay. He had a vision for exactly what he wanted to do here roster-wise. You can tell it was long thought out.
David Griffin's job doesn't really matter anymore. I loved what he did in his short time at the helm, but for better or worse, LBJ is the de facto GM of the Cleveland Cavaliers now.
Probably the best GM to have in the NBA, though. So there's that.
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Yeah and I believe this time however, he will actively recruit people to come here...i don't think he did that at all before. Also helps that he's won a couple rings so he has that clout...not to mention anyone that watched him the last 4 years..theres really no doubt who the best player in the game is. Thats a pretty damn good recruiting tool
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Just saw LeBron's mini-presser he did today....it was no coincidence that LeBron omitted Wiggins and Bennett in his essay. He had a vision for exactly what he wanted to do here roster-wise. You can tell it was long thought out.
The Cavs also had a near-trade already worked out the Wolves around the draft. It's very possible the Cavs already knew what the price for Love would be when they went to Lebron's agent and pitched them the idea of Lebron in Cleveland again. I'm not so sure I buy into all the talk of Lebron "calling all the shots" ... although at least he's actively recruiting a lot better than he did the first time he was here.
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I actually have no problem with Lebron giving input behind the scenes. He's won 2 of the last 4 championships, been in the finals 4 straight years, all the MVP's, and is across the board considered the best player on the planet.
You talk about basketball IQ, and he's got one of the highest of all time. He even brought it up on Friday, the IQ of Kevin Love. Said he doesn't care for the stats. It's about the smarts. He recognizes that.
Although I have to say i was weirded out by the whole talking about a guy who isn't even on your team, all while riding the high wire of league rules The 30 day thing is stupid.
I fully expect Ray Allen to sign once the Love thing finalizes.
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I'm not so sure I buy into all the talk of Lebron "calling all the shots" ...
As long he's on a short deal, we'll more or less do what he wants.
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It really seems like Lebron wanted to play with Love since 2012. Heard and read too many coincidental things. I think he made it clear to reporters that it was a guy he wanted to be teammates with. Windy specifically said to watch out for a Lebron/Love combo 2 years ago.. He always said of the possibility of Lebron coming back that you would need a guy like Kevin Love to get him to come. Little did we foresee any of the way it went down.
I'm sure when Gilbert flew down to Miami for that secret meeting, it was talked about. I don't think he's throwing his weight around or anything, but the guy knows what it takes to win, and knows the type of teammates work. I think he saw the opportunity to trade an asset like Wiggins and get him back.
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I fully expect Ray Allen to sign once the Love thing finalizes.
I'd expect this as well.
Irving
Waiters
LeBron
Love
Varajao
Allen
Miller
Thompson
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Legend
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No Marion? Without him that is an atrocious defensive team. With him it is only horrible.
Everyone you listed is an average to poor defender besides LeBron.
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Sorry, forgot about Marion.
But you're correct, the Bulls would RUN CIRCLES around the Cavs from a defensive standpoint
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Gosh, we are going to suck.
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Thanks for replying, but: Quote:
*** You are ignoring this user ***
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~ Legend
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For the sake of the board, if you're ignoring him can you just ignore him? If your goal is to make him mad then you won't even see his response, it's just pointless. Just adds some clutter to this thread.
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Legend
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You are right. I apologize.
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The 2 teams better be careful here ....... Report: NBA could veto Kevin Love trade if future contract is in place - CBSSports.com http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bask...ct-is-agreed-toWith roughly two weeks until a trade between the Cleveland Cavaliers and Minnesota Timberwolves can be completed, there is still plenty of speculation about what could happen between now and then to prevent the trade from happening. The Wolves would be sending Kevin Love to the Cavs in exchange for Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett and a 2015 first-round pick from Miami. Nothing can happen until Aug. 23 due to contract stipulations that Wiggins can't be dealt for a month after signing his rookie deal. One thing that could get the NBA to veto this trade is the "firm agreement" between Love and the Cavs on a future deal that was reported by Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports. Marc Stein and Brian Windhorst of ESPN.com are reporting league officials are closely monitoring the process and completion of this transaction due to the possibility of an illegal agreement between Love and the Cavs. But sources say the Cavs and Wolves, knowing that league officials are monitoring this transaction closely, have been careful not to make any public acknowledgments that trade details have already been agreed to. That's because Wiggins remains ineligible to be moved until 30 days pass from the signing of his rookie contract. The Cavs were granted permission last month by Minnesota to speak to Love and his representatives in an introductory fashion, sources say, while James and Love have also been in direct contact in recent weeks about their long-term intentions of playing together. On Thursday, Yahoo! Sports reported that the Cavs and Wolves have agreed to a trade in principle and that Love has an agreement to re-sign with the Cavs next summer for five years, $120 million after opting out of his contract. But sources insist that no agreement for Love to sign an extension in Cleveland next summer -- when he can become a free agent -- is in place. In addition, under NBA rules, such an agreement would be illegal, and, if proven, it potentially could be grounds for the league to block this trade and dole out punishment to both teams. The odds of this being vetoed aren't great because it would be pretty hard to prove that Love and the Cavs have actually agreed to the reported five-year, $120-plus million contract that was reported. That doesn't mean it can't or won't happen though. The Wolves once had an illegal agreement with Joe Smith to sign for a small contract with the agreement that they'd make it worth his while in the future when they had the flexibility to pay him more. The league caught wind of that and punished the Wolves by voiding Smith's contract and stripping four first-round picks from the organization. Love and the Cavs can't agree to a deal next summer right now, especially with the trade not even being a done deal. There seems to be a lot of tiptoeing around league rules with LeBron James sort of discussing Love being on the Cavs during his "Welcome Home" rally in Akron, Ohio, on Friday night; the trade being virtually a done deal during this month long moratorium; and now the potential contract. It's more than likely the Wolves and Cavs complete this trade on Aug. 23 and the league allows it to go through. But we've seen deals vetoed in the past for both trades (Chris Paul to the Lakers anyone?) and contracts (Joe Smith). Everyone will need to keep a tight lip for the next couple weeks.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yea, I assumed some of that too.
I hate the gf/exgf comparisons in sports (most notably with Lebron) but I liken it to you telling yourself you're going to find someone else when you get dumped.
I know there will be cleveland fans rooting against him to somehow validate this trade, but I'm pulling for Andrew Wiggins. It's up against him right now. That is a tough market to win in.
I told my son when the news of the trade first started to get serious.. wouldn't it be neat if the Cavs won a couple championships over the next couple years... then in 4 years, LeBron is really on the tail end of his career, Love is getting up there, Kyrie is the wylie veteran and we trade to get Wiggins back who is just entering his prime. 
yebat' Putin
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Not sure he would come back at this point ... I think he feels a little spited with this trade. I'm pretty sure anybody would rather play in Cleveland with Irving and Lebron than play in Minnesota where careers seem to go to die.
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You are right. I apologize.
He's way too entertaining to ignore anyways.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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The 2 teams better be careful here .......
I can't believe either team would be that stupid, especially since one of the parties was punished for it in the past.
I do wonder who leaked the information to yahoo sports, though.
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Posts: 9,349 |
Quote:
Quote:
The 2 teams better be careful here .......
I can't believe either team would be that stupid, especially since one of the parties was punished for it in the past.
I do wonder who leaked the information to yahoo sports, though.
Usually when something is "leaked" it is a purposeful act. May be to attract other FAs to the team.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum NBA Thread, Part 2
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