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What's hypocritical? LMAO
Almost every poster on this board ripped Bess a new one for posting a pic of him doing weed. Gordon has posted a pic of himself w/weed and a pill bottle, got busted numerous times for failing tests, accumulated a ton of traffic violations, got busted for a DUI, had an affiliation w/a guy who was convicted for weapons, drugs, and fraud, got into trouble two times after the draft, which was in freaking May...............and most are acting like the NFL is the big, bad bullies and poor Josh is just an innocent victim. Meanwhile, Bess did less and he was cursed and ridiculed.
And you are telling me you really can't see what is hypocritical? Seriously? Of all people, I thought YOU might understand that. Guys like you, Swish, guard dog, and others should understand how this is playing out. If you don't, then perhaps you should never ever complain about the unfairness of the system again.
Btw---I am not saying that last part harshly. Not at all. Just trying to make you think, man.
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Legend
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Here..........maybe these lyrics will put it into perspective for you: Quote:
Think of all the hate there is in Red China
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama
You may leave here for 4 days in space
But when you return, it's the same old place
The poundin' of the drums, the pride and disgrace
You can bury your dead, but don't leave a trace
Hate your next-door neighbor, but don't forget to say grace
Then again.............maybe not. 
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Legend
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Quote:
Bess did less and he was cursed and ridiculed.
Bess assaulted the police, twice I think, amongst a ton of other stuff. But yeah, he did less. 
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He had fewer violations than Gordon. By far.
And did you really miss the point. You aren't pulling a YTown or Daman on me, are you?
The point was that when one guy does drugs...........he is evil and lets throw him aside, even though it was evident that his problems seemed to be mental issues, which it seems to me would garner more sympathy from the "human" crowd. The other guy breaks the rules over and over and over and over and he even breaks the rules at least two more times after his latest suspension, and the masses act like he is a victim and the NFL is the big, bad bullies.
Pffftttttt..............I'm calling BS. And I really don't give a rat's butt how many of you guys rip me. I will stick to my guns. It's freaking hypocritical as hell!
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~ Legend
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Thank you for thinking so highly of me.
If you want to talk about the fans, then you're right. I just don't agree with the narrative that the Browns didn't do a lot with Bess.
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Legend
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The compliment was sincere.
Maybe I misspoke. I really meant the fans on this thread.
I will say this, though.........let's be real, do you really think....ahhhh, never mind. It would derail whatever train of thought I had going.
Browns are great. They treat each and every player the same, no matter what their talent level is. They truly care about the welfare of each and every player.
And they never "forget to say grace."
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I think you are still missing the point here. There's no excuse for former conduct that JG has demonstrated. But that's not the issue here. The issue is the testing in this case and what the two tests indicated. One barely over the limit and the second, more accurate test being much less than the first one.
I have been harsh on Gordon's conduct as well as Manziels off the field antics. I actually thought the issue with Bess was more mental than anything and hoped he would get help.
But none of those things are the issue here. The issue is simply this test and the upcoming hearing regarding this test. Now you can combine those issues if you so choose, but I find the rest of it irrelevant regarding this singular issue.
And I'm still a bit baffled as you can compare the physical assault type incidents of Bess to smoking weed. Even the law of the land views these two quite differently. Sure rules are rules, but even the law has varying degrees of infractions. And they state physical assaults as a far greater transgression.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
The point was that when one guy does drugs...........he is evil and lets throw him aside, even though it was evident that his problems seemed to be mental issues, which it seems to me would garner more sympathy from the "human" crowd. The other guy breaks the rules over and over and over and over and he even breaks the rules at least two more times after his latest suspension, and the masses act like he is a victim and the NFL is the big, bad bullies.
False equivalence. What you are missing is Bess sucked on the field and Gordon was awesome. That's all you need to know about 99.9% of the opinions on this issue, including mine. All things being equal between the two, you might have a point. But hypocrisy only exists where there is a double standard. You think there is a double standard because you have taken the Bess and Gordon situations out of context, that context being their on-field performances, and treated them as if they were equal. They're not, and it's illogical of you to insist they are and that anyone is a hypocrite for favoring Gordon.
Now, on whether or not on-field performance should be the determining factor in how two individuals are treated, you're probably right, and being the "traditional values" guy, I can understand why it's so important to you. You can legitimately rant on this all you want, but no one will give a damn, and you should probably take it to the "Everything Else" section of the board.
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Well bro, I think his past is the issue. If he would have had that recent test w/out any previous background, I would have scoffed at the results. However, he was busted twice at Baylor. He failed another at Utah. He failed another as a rookie. He gave us a BS statement about cough medicine. He has had numerous speeding tickets. He had a DUI. He is connected to a felon who has convictions in guns, drugs, and forgery. He got pulled over for speeding after news of his latest suspension and there was marijuana in the car. He posted pictures of him w/a pill bottle and a marijuana pipe. He was giving a gang signal. He posted a video of him and Little being drunk at LeBron's party.
Come on, man........................don't play that crap w/me. You and I met. In person. Let's not play that crap anymore. There is evidence, man.
Look..............I hate admitting this, but my own son was busted for a DUI. I told him.........the party is over! Yeah, you had bad luck getting popped. Yeah, you are young and want to have fun. But, you got busted and now you gotta change your act.
How the hell do you NOT get that?
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Quote:
Quote:
The point was that when one guy does drugs...........he is evil and lets throw him aside, even though it was evident that his problems seemed to be mental issues, which it seems to me would garner more sympathy from the "human" crowd. The other guy breaks the rules over and over and over and over and he even breaks the rules at least two more times after his latest suspension, and the masses act like he is a victim and the NFL is the big, bad bullies.
False equivalence. What you are missing is Bess sucked on the field and Gordon was awesome.
I'm not sure why, but I kinda like you Mantis.................so it pains me to say this, but your answer is EXACTLY the point I was TRYING to make. It's not about right or wrong. It's about how good the player is.
That is hypocritical.
Thus, I don't wanna hear how freaking unfair the system is for poor, poor Josh Gordon. It's been more than fair. Do you think you would still have your job if you pulled all the crap he has done? I know I wouldn't. And this freaking guys makes millions! 
One more freaking thing since y'all are making me so crazy...................do you realize that the attitudes of people like you [not you, Mantis...I mean everyone defending Gordon] are the exact reasons why he feels entitled to do whatever he wants to do and has ZERO respect for authority and the rules of the land.]
Good God.......................I can almost guarantee that people have been making excuses for him his entire life. Why? He catches TDs. That's big in the grand scheme of things.
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~ Legend
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My response was sincere.
You may be right about the Browns doing more for Gordon than they did Bess, but I just don't want people thinking that we didn't do anything for Bess. The Browns did try a bit with Bess, but I don't think they realized the severity of Bess's problems or the help he needed (And eventually got).
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I wasn't dogging you, CHS.
We see this thing differently. That's okay w/me and I hope it's okay w/you.
We're just putting the stuff out there....
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That's just it vers. Bess was willfully selfdetructing. I don't even judge him that hard because if I remember right he kinda starting going nuts after his whole family went kind of crazy. He went into rehab to try and deal with it but it just wasn't gonna happen. There is no hope that he could get his act together in time for a young Browns team.
He got cut because he couldn't produce on the field. Fans didn't like him because he was a nutcase that couldn't produce.
With Josh you have a troubled kid with friends who are an obvious bad influence. He is being stupid no doubt about it. Still he is young enough that we can HOPE he will get himself together.
We root for him because he produces results. Knowing he has been vigorously tested and been clean for 70 times tells me he has been trying hard to get himself right. The fact he got suspended at all for taking medicine perscribed by a doctor still seems insanely stupid to me. In my eyes he has been clean since his first rookie mistake.
I also think he probably was stupid enough to be in a car for a 2 hour drive with windows up and the AC roaring while his friend smoked and they were both thinking it wouldn't possibly hurt him but it did. I've known plenty of other young kids that were ignorant and stupid about knowing what shows up on a drug test. Josh claims it was second hand smoke and I believe him. I WANT to believe him.
I'm plenty angry at him though for being stupid. I don't think with so many passed tests though that he is a pot head. I don't think taking that many tests so often would even leave him the courage to light one up. I mean your getting tested probably twice a week and still gonna go light one up? I just don't think he is that stupid. Stupid enough to have bad friends? Yes.
Most of what your complaining about were mistakes he made before joining the Browns. I mean he screwed up as a rookie then got sick and took cough medicine that is commonly prescribed. He is guilty of speeding too much and having a half beer to much. He hung out with old friends who were probably smoking up and thought he was safe because he wasn't smoking. He was wrong and is still learning what he needs to do to protect himself. I don't see were he has malicious intent to do drugs and be a screw up.
Now he fails again and I will probably be done with him I'm close to that even now but 70 passed tests gives me hope I can try to cling too. I'm not going to feel guilty about that no matter how you want to present your point of view.
Either way comparing Josh to Bess is not the same thing in my eyes. Your opinion might be different and I am fine with that but don't call names just because we disagree. Let's just agree to disagree =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Quote:
Thus, I don't wanna hear how freaking unfair the system is for poor, poor Josh Gordon. It's been more than fair. Do you think you would still have your job if you pulled all the crap he has done? I know I wouldn't. And this freaking guys makes millions!
If you were one of the best of the best of the best, yes an employer would look the other way much more so than an average Joe. Call it unfair, but people who are ultra-talented get more breaks than others - I don't care what the job is. As long as your behavior isn't affecting your performance, upper management WILL turn their head and look the other way.
I have changed my tune on Gordon. If he truly passed 70+ tests and then has one that "failed" and the second one was "not failed", I'd say he is trying rather hard to do the right thing. He just needs to find some new people to hang out with, which is easier said than done.
#gmstrong
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I really need the crybaby icon for you Vers.
Good Lord ..... we get that you don't want Gordon to win his appeal, and that you want Gordon to be suspended for the year, and that you want him off the team ..... and that you hope the team struggles as a consequence. What I don't get is how you can wish for all of those things and still support the team.
See, I can put words in your mouth too ..... and mine are probably closer to the truth.
Whatever, I don't know why I even bother to read your comments. It is just not worth it. It's a broken record ....over and over and over again with the same drivel ....... saying that other people said things they never said ...... misinterpreting things ... seeing slams where none were intended .....
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Angry people get angry when others aren't angry.
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Quote:
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What part of two different results from the SAME SAMPLE don't you get? You can't be that dense.
what part of two totally different tests don't you get? cant you read?
The part where two totally different tests were not preformed. I guess I can withdraw my dense question as I now have my answer 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Quote:
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What part of two different results from the SAME SAMPLE don't you get? You can't be that dense.
what part of two totally different tests don't you get? cant you read?
The part where two totally different tests were not preformed. I guess I can withdraw my dense question as I now have my answer
When players in the NFL are drug-screened, two different tests are used. Gordon measured 38 nanograms per milliliter of THC on the immunoassay test above the NFL's threshold of 20, the source said. Most other sports organizations have a 50 cutoff or higher to avoid second-hand smoke issue, the source said.
The second test involves an "A" sample and "B'' sample. If the "A'' sample is above the NFL threshold of 15 nanograms for this particular test, the "B'' sample is tested to confirm it. The source said Gordon measured 16 nanograms on the "A'' sample, just one above the NFL's threshold. He measured 13.63 nanograms on the "B'' sample, below the NFL cutoff.
According to NFL policy, the "B'' test does not have to be above 15 nanograms to confirm the first test -- it just has to contain some of the same banned substance.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/post_186.html
yea. you have your answer. you cannot read.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I really need the crybaby icon for you Vers.
Good Lord ..... we get that you don't want Gordon to win his appeal, and that you want Gordon to be suspended for the year, and that you want him off the team ..... and that you hope the team struggles as a consequence. What I don't get is how you can wish for all of those things and still support the team.
See, I can put words in your mouth too ..... and mine are probably closer to the truth.
that's how i'm reading him as well, so no- I don't think you are making up things....
This is an all or nothing ordeal. Maybe Goodell being absent is actually an "out" for the NFL, I think it is still poor form for Roger to hide from this hearing. Like someone else said, just have the hearing in Canton, closer to Cleveland anyways......
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Oh I can read, and I have no problem admitting that I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, BUT Even Stevie Wonder, and Ray Charles can see that peeing in a cup ONCE and getting two different results from the exact same sample means something is not right with the tests.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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I really need the crybaby icon for you Vers.
Yet another personal insult.
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It's a broken record ....over and over and over again with the same drivel
Of all people to say that. Classic. 
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Oh I can read, and I have no problem admitting that I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, BUT Even Stevie Wonder, and Ray Charles can see that peeing in a cup ONCE and getting two different results from the exact same sample means something is not right with the tests.
then as you can see he failed 2 of 3 tests.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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From other stuff that I'm reading this 15 is not even close to borderline as in other organizations have their failed policy test set at 150 10 times the level noted for the NFL. Which to me and I'm going on sherlock holmes deductive reasoning not KNOW FACTS TO ME. That probably the norm failed test is around 150+ for those caught with Weed. Not the oh well won vile in the split up of the same test shows 16 the other 13...straddling the Failure Zone.
Drug Testing in the Workplace
Drug Testing Cutoff Levels
Drug testing cutoff levels are the minimum concentrations of drugs or metabolites that must be present in specimens, before labs will report the drug testing results as positive. How much of a drug labs can detect depends on drug detection times, frequency of use, type of specimen, drug testing method, metabolism, and other factors.
Labs that follow the Mandatory Guidelines for Federal Workplace Drug Testing Programs published by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), first conduct one or more initial screens followed by confirmatory tests. The approved methods for urine analysis are one or more types of immunoassay (IA) screens, confirmed by gas chromatography and mass spectrometry (GC/MS). If you test below the drug cutoff levels on the initial screens, the lab cannot report it as positive or continue with the confirmatory tests. If you test above them on the initial screens, but below them on the confirmatory test, the lab still cannot report it as positive.
Basic testing typically screens for the following, commonly-abused drugs.
•Amphetamines (speed, meth, crank, ecstasy)
•Cannabinoids (marijuana, hash)
•Cocaine (coke, crack)
•Opiates (heroin, morphine, opium, codeine)
•Phencyclidine (PCP)
Extended testing might also screen for some or all of the following, but basic testing is the most common.
•Barbiturates (phenobarbital, butalbital, secobarbital)
•Benzodiazepines (tranquilizers like Valium, Librium, Xanax)
•Ethanol (ethyl alcohol, booze)
•Hallucinogens (LSD, mushrooms, mescaline, peyote)
•Inhalants (paint, glue, hair spray)
•Anabolic Steroids (synthesized, muscle-building hormones)
The tables below are compiled from public-domain information in the Mandatory Guidelines for Federal Workplace Drug Testing Programs. (See Notes below.) They are for urine analysis of the commonly-abused types of drugs known as the "SAMHSA Five."
Initial Drug Cutoff Levels
Drug Nanograms per Milliliter (ng/ml)
Marijuana metabolites 50
Confirmatory Drug Cutoff Levels
Drug Nanograms per Milliliter (ng/ml)
Marijuana metabolite 15
If you've never or rarely abused drugs, but happen to get some into your system close to the time you submit your specimen, like at a party where pot smoke fills the air, you'll come in at only about 5 ng/ml for marijuana metabolites. That's well below the cutoff level of 50 ng/ml, so you're safe. The tests are only for illegal drug use, too. If you're on legit prescription medications and have normal levels for such, you have nothing to fear. But if you're royally screwing up on the job because of your medication or the condition you're medicating, you might have to take medical or disability leave.
http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/l/aa090301_4.htm
while the nfl does have a lower screen test cutoff 20 is what they use and most use 50 the 15ng/ml is pretty standard cutoff on the confirm test everywhere.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Legend
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No decision on Josh Gordon's suspension expected today, he'll be back in Cleveland Saturday http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/08/no_decision_on_josh_gordons_su.htmlBy Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on August 01, 2014 at 8:18 AM, updated August 01, 2014 at 8:40 AM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- No decision is expected Friday on Josh Gordon's indefinite ban for violating the NFL's substance-abuse policy, and he'll be back in Cleveland by Saturday, league sources have told cleveland.com. A decision is expected soon, but not immediately after Friday's appeal hearing at the NFL offices in New York City. It's uncertain if Gordon will be back in time Saturday to participate in the Family Day scrimmage Saturday at the University of Akron, which begins at 11:30 a.m. Gordon's attorneys, Heather McPhee of the NFLPA and Maurice Suh, will argue in front of arbitrator Harold Henderson that Gordon tested positive for marijuana because of second-hand smoke. They'll also state that the test results of his "A" and "B" specimens were inconsistent, and that Gordon should not be banished from the NFL based on those results. Henderson can impose something less than the minimum one-year ban, but that rarely happens, because an "appeal ruling is expected to affirm or reject the decision,'' a league source said. No NFL player is believed to have won an appeal on the grounds of second-hand smoke. However, Gordon's attorneys feel his case is different, because he's the only one in their research with a "B'' test -- the quality-control specimen used to confirm a positive "A'' test -- under the NFL threshold of 15 nanograms of the banned substance in marijuana per milliliter. Former Giants and current Ravens defensive back Will Hill recently lost his appeal of a six-game suspension after blaming his positive test on second-hand smoke. A source told cleveland.com that Henderson will take a hard-line stance on the passive smoke argument, and NFL spokesman Greg Aiello stressed that NFL players are responsible for what's in their bodies. Even if Gordon wins his appeal, he could still be suspended or otherwise disciplined under the personal-conduct policy for his DWI last month in Raleigh, N.C. His hearing for that is Aug. 26. (end)
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A decision is expected soon, but not immediately ...
I don't know about you guys, but I am SOOOO sick-n-tired about hearing nothing but constant speculation about whether Gordon did or didn't, the testing 'A' and 'B', dithering by Goodell's office, etc. Just give us the 'verdict'... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Man beats dear horse......... " Goodell's office " !
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Vers a couple of things as of course you put up the fight against the masses once again. You are who you are. 
1. Browns are great. They treat each and every player the same, no matter what their talent level is. They truly care about the welfare of each and every player.
Regarding consistency in policy. Just please take in effect that we have had different organizational structures especially recently. Holmgren/Heckert, Banner/Lombardi & now Farmer/Pettine. So its pretty hard to expect consistency in this matter when there hasn't been in any other variable within the organization.
2. Regarding Gordon's history: I do look at it and in the last two years he has passed 70 tests. He failed a Codeine test which was in the winter months and had a prescription for a Cough Medicine to rid a cold.
Then this recent failure regarding a minimum minimum amount of thc showing up. When 10 times the amount is probably what shows up for USERS.
So when I look at the "history" I see a kid who actually is in recovery when it comes to his pot smoking.
Now before you get all over me...lol 
I do think he has made terrible decisions on WHO HE HANGS with and I know how hard that is cause he doesn't wish to abandon his friends from the past. Probably till he gets married it will be a hard nut to crack but a good woman can possibly convince him that these are not friends if they jeopardize his livelihood the way they have in the past. Friends should look out for him and protect him from any ill effects and consequences. He should take responsibility for those FRIEND Hanging out choices. But not Banishment from the NFL.
That is my point of view.
Bess? Come on man, tough one to compare it wasn't the pic of weed + it was the fact that he mentally lost it. Certifiably Unbalanced. Most of us know Weed but hardly any of us understand or know the Mental Breakdown and how to deal with it.
Also with Bess there was obvious cause & effect ON the field of play.
jmho...not a hypocrite by any means. I always feel people are good and don't give up on them...oh I got my limitations. Hernandez is a piece of scum murderer.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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What a roller coaster. But we're used to that here.
I wasn't sure what to expect after reading the article written by the lawyer. It's always so funny to me when someone in the business confirms the perception that we all have about lawyers.
This breaks against us for two big reasons.
One, Goddell removed himself (ridiculously) from the process leaving the public relations issue a non-issue. This Henderson dude can rule anyway he wants without backlash. Nobody knew who the hell he was before this and nobody will after. Goddell can claim ignorance of the preceedings and be totally insulated. Advantage: NFL.
Two, the testing policy is written and clear. You don't get to pick the better result. Period. One positive result ANYWHERE is enough. Advantage: NFL
It boils down to whether the NFL wants to cut the Browns a break. And that to me, is the thinnest reason for hope one can imagine. And by disappearing completely, I think ol' Rog has already tipped his hand. Full indefinite ban, Henderson takes the heat and Gordon, facing the whole year away from any rigid football program, gives into his environment.
Game over.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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I'm either a hypocrite or not. I'm either biased or not. I'm either promoting inequality in treatment of players or I'm not.
Frankly, Scarlet, I don't give a .....
I hope the tests get thrown out and Gordon plays an entire season. I just want to win ball games.
I the greater scheme of things, much worse things have been done by much better teams (players) that have been dealt with a blind eye by the NFL.
We deserve to catch a break. And, hopefully, Gordon gets his head out of his rectum.
That's all.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Legend
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Legend
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Vers is talking about perceived hypocrisy of the fans, not of the team.
I haven't said much about this because I have a very poor memory and don't trust that I recall exactly how it went down, but what I remember of the Bess situation is that after the initial image came out with him obviously surrounded by weed people were angry at him because it seemed dumb. Then, when it became clear that he was mentally ill, people were worried about him, then it came out that Miami knew he was crazy when they traded him, and fans were angry at Miami, then it came out the Banner and Lombardi may have known he was crazy but thought the little they gave up for him was probably worth it (which is probably true, seeing as he was responsible for 1/4th of our wins last year).
Also, most fans were angry at Gordon about the failed test, but then as more information came out about it, it seems plausible (not necessarily likely or probable) that he actually didn't smoke (with the 70+ passed tests, the prior pass couldn't have been too far ahead of the "failed" one, and the quantity detected is so low.)
It seems that a lot of the fan opinion here is that they hope Gordon receives what they see as a "fair" suspension for how bad the act/violation was (especially given the prism of the Rice decision), whereas Vers feels that what is important is that Gordon knew what the punishment for his actions were and still violated the rules... and therefore the punishment as written should be enforced.
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Hall of Famer
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-JC- Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot Arbitrator Harold Henderson will make the decision on #browns josh Gordon's appeal (not expected today) and it will be final. Twitter Link
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Legend
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Legend
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jc...
Questions, questions, questions...
First, why would the NFL use two different testing methods?
Second, why does the NFL rely on the less accurate testing method to determine whether a player is above the limit of 15.0 ng/ml?
If the NFL is looking to catch as many drug offenders as they can, and " they don't really care" if the more accurate testing method showed that Gordon WAS NOT over their limit of 15.0 ng/ml, then using the less sophisticated testing method to suspend Josh Gordon for an entire season or longer, makes perfect sense according to Roger's Rules.
On one hand the NFL wants to portray itself as this fair, caring organization that does all it can to help their players...yet this week we witness Roger Goodell render a decision in the Ray Rice case that can only be described as the most biased decision in favor of one franchise since Goodell took over as Comish...suspending Ray Rice for just 2 games, FOR KNOCKING OUT HIS FIANCE, on tape.
Just yesterday, for the Gordon case, Goodell assigned an arbitrator...old friend Harold Henderson. I guess Roger is attempting to appear unbiased with this late move...but is there anyone who believes Mr Henderson has not already been told how to rule?
Let the show begin...but don't hold your breath on a decision being rendered for a few days. I expect Goodell and Henderson to sit on the case not making a ruling until early next week.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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The 16ng/ml and 13.6ng/ml came from the same test. There was the initial screening test which came in significantly higher (which also had a higher threshold), then the 16ng test came in positive. They only test the B sample at the player's request, it is the same test, and only has to confirm that the substance that originally tested positive for twice is in the player's system. Or something like that. http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/PlayerDevelopment/2010%20Drug%20Policy.pdf
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Legend
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Legend
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I went back and looked at the Sherman case from last year.
How did Sherman win?
He argued that the cup used to collect his specimen had a leak in it, and that a 2nd cup had to be used. It wasn't a problem with the accuracy of the test, but rather a lapse in protocol.
I don't know if that helps or hurts Gordon's chances ..... but I would think that they have, at least, a puncher's chance of winning. I woudl think that they will argue that for there to be such a significant difference in the A and B sample, there had to be a lapse in protocol somewhere along the line. If they can introduce enough doubt about the security of the sample in the chain of custody, Gordon wins. I think that's what it comes down to, and I think it;s sound strategy.
For those who think that this would be horrible for Gordon, and that it would cause him to run off on a drug crazed orgy or something ...... he has passed 70 drug screens. The one he failed was barely over the limit on one sample, and under on another. It's not like he has tested at some ridiculously high level on his failed test. he was about as close to being legal in the one test as could be, He was further under in the other. If the 2 samples had been labeled B and A, instead of A and B, there would be no issue right now. (as far as what's been reported anyway)
Regardless, while I think that Gordon has been stupid in choosing his friends, and in putting himself in bad situations, I don't think that he is a raging drug addict. I think that he is dumb, as far as how to deal with people. I think that could be fixable. I don't think that it's worthy f a year long suspension ..... one which would throw Gordon back out into the real world .... with no help from the team at all ... would be in his best interests. In fact, I think that would be a recipe for disaster for Gordon. He needs structure and a strong mentor. Out of the NFL, he will not get that. He is more likely to fail a drug test when he tries to come back, because he hasn't learned to say no to his "friends", and that all of his "friends" don't necessarily have his best interests at heart.
That's the way I see it. Some, like Chris Carter, have called for Gordon to be cut before he destroys his life. Really? He failed a test ... barely ........
It's not like when Carter was locked under the influence of drugs like cocaine. There is a huge difference between the 2 situations.
I hpe that Gordon wins .....and that he starts making changes to his life to eliminate some of the troubling influences. I hope that the team and his agent(s) set up a mentoring program, and ongoing counselling for Gordon. I think that's what's in his best interests, and it also happens to be what's best for the Browns. To me, that's a win/win. Others are welcome to disagree.
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 08/01/14 11:37 AM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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By the books Gordon will be gone for the year. He can argue all he wants about second hand smoke, test b being lower and what not. The Arbitrator can point to test A failing and Test B backing that up. That's it, Gordon's lawyers can't deny that.
But Gordon is a special player, just like Sherman is a special player. Special players make the league money. They find ways to be lenient with them (not always).
I still think he is gone for the year. I hope I am wrong.
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Dawg Talker
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I havent read anywhere that they are arguing that there was a mess-up in protocol. They are arguing against the fairness of the protocol. That's a grey area and one, IMHO, they won't address at this time.
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Legend
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Legend
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I think that they will argue both. One test says guilty. The other does not. Sherman won, essentially, by creating reasonable doubt. That's really all they need, IMHO.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Well bro, I think his past is the issue. If he would have had that recent test w/out any previous background, I would have scoffed at the results. However, he was busted twice at Baylor. He failed another at Utah. He failed another as a rookie. He gave us a BS statement about cough medicine. He has had numerous speeding tickets. He had a DUI. He is connected to a felon who has convictions in guns, drugs, and forgery. He got pulled over for speeding after news of his latest suspension and there was marijuana in the car. He posted pictures of him w/a pill bottle and a marijuana pipe. He was giving a gang signal. He posted a video of him and Little being drunk at LeBron's party.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. Yet the codeine part of your argument has zero basis in fact. You speculate that it wasn't a prescribed cough medicine but there's no evidence to support that. And while he has shown some very poor judgment and committed many infractions, you also fail to mention that he's passed 70 drug screens.
Yet again I say this hearing is about one of that. Neither giving him credit for the 70 passed drug screens or his past infractions.
Quote:
Come on, man........................don't play that crap w/me. You and I met. In person. Let's not play that crap anymore. There is evidence, man.
While I don't think we have to be nasty in our debates, I don't think we'll suddenly agree on everything.
Quote:
Look..............I hate admitting this, but my own son was busted for a DUI. I told him.........the party is over! Yeah, you had bad luck getting popped. Yeah, you are young and want to have fun. But, you got busted and now you gotta change your act.
How the hell do you NOT get that?
I get that. I'm not promoting or advocating his past behavior.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Not sure how to take this ..... he would have no reason to meet with Gordon if he is suspended indefinitely.
Mike Cairns ;@MikeCairns5 41s
Comish not involved in Gordon process today but said if he was needed to meet with #Browns WR he would welcome the chance
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon continued
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