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Vers is talking about perceived hypocrisy of the fans, not of the team.
I haven't said much about this because I have a very poor memory and don't trust that I recall exactly how it went down, but what I remember of the Bess situation is that after the initial image came out with him obviously surrounded by weed people were angry at him because it seemed dumb. Then, when it became clear that he was mentally ill, people were worried about him, then it came out that Miami knew he was crazy when they traded him, and fans were angry at Miami, then it came out the Banner and Lombardi may have known he was crazy but thought the little they gave up for him was probably worth it (which is probably true, seeing as he was responsible for 1/4th of our wins last year).
Also, most fans were angry at Gordon about the failed test, but then as more information came out about it, it seems plausible (not necessarily likely or probable) that he actually didn't smoke (with the 70+ passed tests, the prior pass couldn't have been too far ahead of the "failed" one, and the quantity detected is so low.)
It seems that a lot of the fan opinion here is that they hope Gordon receives what they see as a "fair" suspension for how bad the act/violation was (especially given the prism of the Rice decision), whereas Vers feels that what is important is that Gordon knew what the punishment for his actions were and still violated the rules... and therefore the punishment as written should be enforced.
Thank you very much. That post saved me reading through the usual BS.
If that's where this discussion is at, I'd still say free Gordon, because "failing" one "test" out of 70+ is far from proving anything, especially considering how low the minimum is in the NFL compared to other organized testing.
If Gordon is "good enough" to fly us all from Cleveland to LA, if he had a license to do so, then he's "good enough" to play in the NFL.
The real hypocrisy in all of this is those lambasting Gordon, but remaining mum on the Manziel dollar bill scandal. I'm sure Manziel knows about the penalties of being caught too, so where's the cry for suspension there? That's hypocritical.
And for the record, I don't want neither suspended, nor investigated. I could care less what they do privatley. I just want them to play good for the Browns and win games, not pretending to feel or care much for them outside of it.
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Not sure how to take this ..... he would have no reason to meet with Gordon if he is suspended indefinitely.
Mike Cairns ;@MikeCairns5 41s
Comish not involved in Gordon process today but said if he was needed to meet with #Browns WR he would welcome the chance
open and shut case. just following the CBA rules.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Not sure how to take this ..... he would have no reason to meet with Gordon if he is suspended indefinitely.
Mike Cairns ;@MikeCairns5 41s
Comish not involved in Gordon process today but said if he was needed to meet with #Browns WR he would welcome the chance
open and shut case. just following the CBA rules.
My point is that he would have no reason to meet with Gordon is he were to be suspended.
(at least not until he applied for reinstatement .... but that doesn't sound like what he is talking about)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Not sure if this has been posted, but saw it on Twitter.
Ray Rice got two games for beating his wife, Josh Gordon is about to get a year for weed.
The NFL is basically saying you can hit Mary, just don't hit Mary Jane.
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JC
Josh has still been smoking. Second hand smoke is a complete joke here...
There are things smokers can do to reduce their levels on these tests. 1 huge factor is fat level. THC is stored in fat. Skinny is better. As an NFL WR, Josh has a huge advantage here. Another huge factor is hydration at test time. I'm sure Josh was educated by his agent, trainer, teammates, how to property hydrate before a test. Remember its ng per LITER of urine. Fill your bladder (within reason), you pee more water in the urine, reducing the THC level. Josh knew what to do. I'm sure hydration helped him pass many of those 70 prior tests.
They put these cutoff levels at a spot where 2nd hand smoke is virtually impossible. The ultra rare exception, could be someone that has A LOT of fat and is poorly hydrated on test day. I can't conceive that Josh falls into either category. He just smoked too much, too close to this random test, and couldn't dilute his way out of it.
As far as 70 tests? I smoke daily. I've passed 12 without failing. You need to limit intake, stay in shape, drink a lot of fluids when you get the call.
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Just Clicking This thread is pretty long and I didn't want to read the entire thing so please excuse me if this has been posted http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/08/no_decision_on_josh_gordons_su.html#incart_m-rpt-1 Quote:
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- No decision is expected Friday on Josh Gordon's indefinite ban for violating the NFL's substance-abuse policy, and he'll be back in Cleveland by Saturday, league sources have told cleveland.com.
A decision is expected soon, but not immediately after Friday's appeal hearing at the NFL offices in New York City.
It's uncertain if Gordon will be back in time Saturday to participate in the Family Day scrimmage Saturday at the University of Akron, which begins at 11:30 a.m.
Gordon's attorneys, Heather McPhee of the NFLPA and Maurice Suh, will argue in front of arbitrator Harold Henderson that Gordon tested positive for marijuana because of second-hand smoke. They'll also state that the test results of his "A" and "B" specimens were inconsistent, and that Gordon should not be banished from the NFL based on those results.
Henderson can impose something less than the minimum one-year ban, but that rarely happens, because an "appeal ruling is expected to affirm or reject the decision,'' a league source said.
No NFL player is believed to have won an appeal on the grounds of second-hand smoke. However, Gordon's attorneys feel his case is different, because he's the only one in their research with a "B'' test -- the quality-control specimen used to confirm a positive "A'' test -- under the NFL threshold of 15 nanograms of the banned substance in marijuana per milliliter.
Former Giants and current Ravens defensive back Will Hill recently lost his appeal of a six-game suspension after blaming his positive test on second-hand smoke.
A source told cleveland.com that Henderson will take a hard-line stance on the passive smoke argument, and NFL spokesman Greg Aiello stressed that NFL players are responsible for what's in their bodies.
Even if Gordon wins his appeal, he could still be suspended or otherwise disciplined under the personal-conduct policy for his DWI last month in Raleigh, N.C. His hearing for that is Aug. 26.
didn't I read somewhere that the DWI was dropped to some other lesser charge? Maybe I just dreamt it.
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just one question.
The test you passed 12 times was it at the scrutiny of 15 or 150 w/the latter being touted as the new norm for test.
I also thought Pot was the least to be watered down due to the length its in the system. Thought those were for steroid and some other in the testing. I mean you are correct, I'm not an expert considering I haven't touched a doobie for 30 years. Nor have I ever been tested. Also not considered in your comparison (cause I do know something about hydrating) If his fat level is so low...I would think he's working out very hard - which would bring his hydration levels very low. Don't know the last time you sweated around 5-10 lbs off where you had to re-hydrate but I'm sure Gordon has to a lot. I wonder if any of those 70 passed tests were right after a game where all you got is mostly protein that is left in the bladder.
just saying. 
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The test you passed 12 times was it at the scrutiny of 15 or 150 w/the latter being touted as the new norm for test.
don't let these people BS you. that 150 is a screen test only. if you fail that you are given the real test. for WADA its 19 ng/mL instead of the 15 ng/mL the nfl uses. if you tested 150 on the one your thinking of you would be comatose. lmao.
According to the NFLPA, the current THC level necessary for a positive test is 15 ng/mL. A quick look at the WADA thresholds shows that their decision limit for a positive THC test is only 19 ng/mL.
http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/World_...bstances-EN.pdf
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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What scares me is we got way too many experts on the board...lol : D
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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This thread is pretty long ...
Overly so. May as well be reading the JAMA... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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What scares me is we got way too many experts on the board...lol : D
Perhaps instead of being known as The Pound, it should be The Impound...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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What scares me is we got way too many experts on the board...lol : D
not a expert but I can read. what the confusion is they do a screen test first for all banned drugs. the cut off is low in the nfl at 20 ng/mL most other business and sports do the screen at 50 ng/mL. like baseball does. then if you fail that they run a different test for the drugs you failed. for most like baseball and the nfl it is 15 ng/mL. for wada it is 19 ng/mL.
the only thing the nfl can be accused of is they screen test too low.
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No NFL player is believed to have won an appeal on the grounds of second-hand smoke. However, Gordon's attorneys feel his case is different, because he's the only one in their research with a "B'' test -- the quality-control specimen used to confirm a positive "A'' test -- under the NFL threshold of 15 nanograms of the banned substance in marijuana per milliliter.
The NFL has a perfect chance to 'save face' with this whole thing by way of that unusual circumstance noted above. He's an exception to the rule...therefore the rule does not HAVE to apply.
It gives them the perfect segue to change what is a ridiculous rule.
This thing should have been thrown out a long time ago.
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Goodell is putting this all on the arbitrator to limit his exposure... Feels like Josh will get slammed to me. The fact that the arbitrator will make the decision "and it will be final" scares me.
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Goodell is putting this all on the arbitrator to limit his exposure... Feels like Josh will get slammed to me. The fact that the arbitrator will make the decision "and it will be final" scares me.
there minds are made up. as far as the CBA they can slam him. but I really think him going to rehab might reduce the punishment. jmo.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Goodell is putting this all on the arbitrator to limit his exposure... Feels like Josh will get slammed to me. The fact that the arbitrator will make the decision "and it will be final" scares me.
That's my feeling as well. The case is already closed. The rules are clear.
It would be a "saving face" move to take pity on JG from a Browns Fan's perspective.
I'm pretty sure the rats, stoolers and bungles fans would be outraged.
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Just to let you know, diluted samples are easily detected. That's pretty commonly known.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm not sure why, but I kinda like you Mantis.................
Awww... I kinda like you too, Vers. Probably because we are both educators with a contrarian streak, occasionally pedantic with a bit of "smartest-guy-in-the-room" syndrome. Despite what many on this board write about you, I do believe you are willing to consider all sides and make a fair judgment, according to your own interpretation, of course.
Now, I wonder if you also have the same penchant for hair-splitting analysis as I do. Regardless, here is where I make a distinction --
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so it pains me to say this, but your answer is EXACTLY the point I was TRYING to make. It's not about right or wrong. It's about how good the player is.
Half correct. It's actually about both, as I will explain below.
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That is hypocritical.
Incorrect. Hypocrisy is "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform." Given your stance on accountability and moral principle regarding player conduct, it would be hypocritical of YOU to treat Bess and Gordon differently. But most on this board don't hold the same position that you do. They reject your moral principle from the outset, and so they cannot, by definition, be hypocrites. They can be immoral, profoundly immoral if I read you correctly, but they're not hypocrites.
You are actually on to something interesting with all of this, but I think you haven't seen it clearly yet, and I'm probably the only one honest enough to acknowledge it to you. For them, and me, when it comes to football, right and wrong is determined, not by conduct in one's private life, but by one's conduct on the field. This explains why they care about Gordon to a greater degree than Bess. Again, it's not hypocrisy because they are actually sticking faithfully to their moral principle. The real problem, for you, is that their principle is immoral.
Now, you can call us hypocrites for having one moral standard for a football player and another standard for a non-football player, but technically we are not hypocrites for our stance on Gordon in relation to Bess. How's that for hair-splitting? LOL
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One more freaking thing since y'all are making me so crazy...................do you realize that the attitudes of people like you [not you, Mantis...I mean everyone defending Gordon] are the exact reasons why he feels entitled to do whatever he wants to do and has ZERO respect for authority and the rules of the land.]
I don't know him personally, so I couldn't say one way or the other. Maybe you are right, but I am inclined to believe Gordon's behavior is motivated less by disrespect for authority and more by simple immaturity and moral weakness. But I'm honest enough to admit that I really don't know what his problem is, so I won't speculate further on Gordon's psychology, something I wish everyone else would do a little less of as well.
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* JG in the Big Apple: Receiver Josh Gordon was absent to plead his appeal of a drug suspension in New York before league-designee Harold Henderson. There have been reports that the only way Gordon could receive a suspension less than “indefinite” -- a one-year minimum, per terms of the league substance abuse policy – would be if Gordon’s legal team negotiated some sort of settlement with the NFL. Gordon’s camp intended to claim secondhand smoke was the reason Gordon tested barely over the league threshold for marijuana. While Henderson, a former league vice president, heard the appeal, it is believed that a decision on Gordon will not be finalized until Commissioner Roger Goodell returns to New York Monday from Hall of Fame festivities this weekend in Canton, OH. At a press availability outside the Pro Football Hall of Fame on Friday, Goodell said, “Josh is going through the process right now. I am not a part of that process. At some point in time, I may have an opportunity to be involved. When I am, I look forward to meeting with him.” Goodell was pressed on the apparent double standard of heavy league suspensions for positive drug tests v. a lighter one (two games) for the widely seen incident of domestic violence by Baltimore running back Ray Rice. Goodell pointed out it was Rice’s first incident and added, “We have a drug program that is collectively bargained and it has a step process. It takes four incidents before you actually reach a suspension in a drug-related case.” Coach Mike Pettine said he did not know if Gordon would return in time to be active for Saturday’s team scrimmage in Akron. http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=35341four incidents before you actually reach a suspension in a drug-related case? hmmm so that means Gordon had 3 other incidents before he got suspended last year? know he failed one pot test in 2012 wonder what the other two incidents were?
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Not sure how to take this ..... he would have no reason to meet with Gordon if he is suspended indefinitely.
Mike Cairns ;@MikeCairns5 41s
Comish not involved in Gordon process today but said if he was needed to meet with #Browns WR he would welcome the chance
open and shut case. just following the CBA rules.
My point is that he would have no reason to meet with Gordon is he were to be suspended.
(at least not until he applied for reinstatement .... but that doesn't sound like what he is talking about)
I don't think we can read too much into Goodell offering to meet with Gordon but if anything, I would think it's just the opposite. If he gets off, everything is back to normal and there's really nothing to talk about. If he's banished from the league with the opportunity to reapply for instatement in a year, JG deserves a face to face conversation IMO.
As far as Goodell not being there for the hearing, I really don't see the big deal in it. The commish has a lot on his plate as far as running the NFL and player discipline is only a very small part of it. The best comparison I can think of is a principal in school disciplining the students. Not an overly important part of the job and not an aspect most look forward to, I would think. And most of the time the teachers and assistant principals handle that kind of stuff (not that I know anything about that...)
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* JG in the Big Apple: Receiver Josh Gordon was absent to plead his appeal of a drug suspension in New York before league-designee Harold Henderson. There have been reports that the only way Gordon could receive a suspension less than “indefinite” -- a one-year minimum, per terms of the league substance abuse policy – would be if Gordon’s legal team negotiated some sort of settlement with the NFL. Gordon’s camp intended to claim secondhand smoke was the reason Gordon tested barely over the league threshold for marijuana. While Henderson, a former league vice president, heard the appeal, it is believed that a decision on Gordon will not be finalized until Commissioner Roger Goodell returns to New York Monday from Hall of Fame festivities this weekend in Canton, OH. At a press availability outside the Pro Football Hall of Fame on Friday, Goodell said, “Josh is going through the process right now. I am not a part of that process. At some point in time, I may have an opportunity to be involved. When I am, I look forward to meeting with him.” Goodell was pressed on the apparent double standard of heavy league suspensions for positive drug tests v. a lighter one (two games) for the widely seen incident of domestic violence by Baltimore running back Ray Rice. Goodell pointed out it was Rice’s first incident and added, “We have a drug program that is collectively bargained and it has a step process. It takes four incidents before you actually reach a suspension in a drug-related case.” Coach Mike Pettine said he did not know if Gordon would return in time to be active for Saturday’s team scrimmage in Akron.
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=35341
four incidents before you actually reach a suspension in a drug-related case? hmmm so that means Gordon had 3 other incidents before he got suspended last year? know he failed one pot test in 2012 wonder what the other two incidents were?
He came in with a strike and had the codeine thing. This is the first I'm hearing of a possible additional suspension, unless he is saying the full-year suspension.
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As far as Goodell not being there for the hearing, I really don't see the big deal in it. The commish has a lot on his plate as far as running the NFL and player discipline is only a very small part of it. The best comparison I can think of is a principal in school disciplining the students. Not an overly important part of the job and not an aspect most look forward to, I would think. And most of the time the teachers and assistant principals handle that kind of stuff (not that I know anything about that...)
Goodell had a sit down with Ray Rice and that meeting had an impact on the length of the suspension. Gordon should be afforded the same opportunity.
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* JG in the Big Apple: Receiver Josh Gordon was absent to plead his appeal of a drug suspension in New York before league-designee Harold Henderson. There have been reports that the only way Gordon could receive a suspension less than “indefinite” -- a one-year minimum, per terms of the league substance abuse policy – would be if Gordon’s legal team negotiated some sort of settlement with the NFL. Gordon’s camp intended to claim secondhand smoke was the reason Gordon tested barely over the league threshold for marijuana. While Henderson, a former league vice president, heard the appeal, it is believed that a decision on Gordon will not be finalized until Commissioner Roger Goodell returns to New York Monday from Hall of Fame festivities this weekend in Canton, OH. At a press availability outside the Pro Football Hall of Fame on Friday, Goodell said, “Josh is going through the process right now. I am not a part of that process. At some point in time, I may have an opportunity to be involved. When I am, I look forward to meeting with him.” Goodell was pressed on the apparent double standard of heavy league suspensions for positive drug tests v. a lighter one (two games) for the widely seen incident of domestic violence by Baltimore running back Ray Rice. Goodell pointed out it was Rice’s first incident and added, “We have a drug program that is collectively bargained and it has a step process. It takes four incidents before you actually reach a suspension in a drug-related case.” Coach Mike Pettine said he did not know if Gordon would return in time to be active for Saturday’s team scrimmage in Akron.
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=35341
four incidents before you actually reach a suspension in a drug-related case? hmmm so that means Gordon had 3 other incidents before he got suspended last year? know he failed one pot test in 2012 wonder what the other two incidents were?
He came in with a strike and had the codeine thing. This is the first I'm hearing of a possible additional suspension, unless he is saying the full-year suspension.
The source told NEOMG that in addition to Gordon testing negative about 70 times since his rookie year, he's tested positive only once for marijuana in the NFL -- in his rookie year in 2012
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/post_186.html
Last edited by pblack18707; 08/01/14 03:30 PM.
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Yes, I was following up this question: Quote:
know he failed one pot test in 2012 wonder what the other two incidents were?
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As far as Goodell not being there for the hearing, I really don't see the big deal in it. The commish has a lot on his plate as far as running the NFL and player discipline is only a very small part of it. The best comparison I can think of is a principal in school disciplining the students. Not an overly important part of the job and not an aspect most look forward to, I would think. And most of the time the teachers and assistant principals handle that kind of stuff (not that I know anything about that...)
Goodell had a sit down with Ray Rice and that meeting had an impact on the length of the suspension. Gordon should be afforded the same opportunity.
I read above that Josh Gordon himself isn't even at the hearing, and that Goodell has offered to meet with him face to face (not sure if before or after the ruling, though.)
Here's another way to look at it.... would it be better for Josh Gordon and his team to plead their case directly to the commissioner? Based on Goodell's history of player discipline, I'm not so sure. Ray Rice situation being an exception, and also falling under a different policy.
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Roger Goodell explains why Josh Gordon is facing a year ban when Ray Rice got only two games for domestic violence BEREA, Ohio - NFL Commisioner Roger Goodell defended the league's decision to suspend Ravens running back Ray Rice for two games for domestic violence, while a player such as Browns receiver Josh Gordon is facing a minimum one-year ban for testing positive for marijuana. Goodell and the NFL have been blasted from coast-to-coast by media and fans for the apparent disparity in punishments. "You have to deal with the facts,'' Goodell told reporters at the Pro Football Hall of Fame press conference Friday in Canton. "We have a drug program that is collectively bargained and it has a step process. It takes four incidents before you actually reach a suspension in a drug-related case. You have to respond to facts here. "You have a lot of people voicing their opinions, but what you have to understand is that this is a young man (Rice) who made a terrible mistake – it's inconsistent with what we're all about. We have dealt with it in a serious manner, and we're very confident that this young man understands where he is and what he needs to do going forward.'' Goodell said he understands that not all of the league's decisions will be popular. "When we make decisions we always get reactions,'' he said. "We understand that, we listen to it, and we use it to make ourselves better. We're comfortable with that and we understand that.'' While Goodell is in Canton, Gordon was having his appeal heard by arbitrator Harold Henderson at the NFL offices in New York City. Henderson's decision is not expected today, but it's final. Gordon is appealing his minimum one-year ban on the grounds that he tested positive because of second-hand smoke -- an argument no NFL player has won before. Other NFL players such as former Giants and current Ravens running back Will Hill have tried the "second-hand smoke'' defense and lost. "Josh is going through the process right now,'' Goodell said. "I am not a part of that process. At some point in time, I may have an opportunity to be involved. When I am, I look forward to meeting with him.'' Goodell indicated that he won't be part of the decision-making process on Gordon's suspension. "They'll make a decision based on the information that is exchanged today,'' Goodell said. A source told cleveland.com that Gordon's lawyers will argue that his test results were inconsistent. They will contend that he's the only player claiming second-hand smoke who had a control test under the NFL threshold of 15 nanograms of the banned substance in marijuana per milliliter. His "A'' test was 16 nanograms, and his "B" test of the same specimen, used to confirm the positive "A,'' was 13.63 ng/ml, the source told cleveland.com. If Gordon loses his appeal, he'll be banished from the team immediately and have to wait a year to apply for reinstatement with Goodell. If he wins, he'll return to Cleveland and resume his Pro Bowl career. Henderson can also decide on something less than the minimum one-year ban, but a league source stressed, "an appeal ruling is expected to affirm or reject the decision.'' A decision is expected soon, but not likely Friday. Meanwhile, Goodell defended suspending Rice for only two games after he allegedly struck his then-fiancee and now wife unconscious in a casino elevator in Atlantic City on Feb. 15. Videos show Rice dragging her unconscious out of the elevator. "Our policy is clear on this,'' said Goodell. "We have a very firm policy that domestic violence is not acceptable in the NFL and that there will be consequences for that. When we're going through the process of evaluating the issue and whether there will be discipline, you look at all of the facts that you have available to us. "Law enforcement normally has more – on a normal basis – has more information, facts, than we have. We'll get as much as we possibly can. And then you also have the opportunity to sit down with the individual, and maybe others, to determine how that individual is reacting to it. I think what's important here is that Ray has taken responsibility for this.'' He said Rice's suspension was based in part on the fact he's been accountable for his actions. "He recognizes he made a horrible mistake, that it is unacceptable, by his standards and by our standards. And he's got to work to re-establish himself. The criminal justice system, as you know, put him in a diversionary program with no discipline, and we felt it was appropriate to have discipline, and to continue counseling programs and to continue our education work. "And I was also very impressed with Ray in the sense that Ray not only is accepting this issue, and saying how it was wrong, but he's saying 'I want to make a powerful difference in this area.' I think you heard from him yesterday. He is a young man that really understands the mistake he made and he is out and about and determined to make a positive difference.'' Goodell emphasized the NFL can't make up rules as it goes along. "We have to remain consistent,'' said Goodell. "We can't just make up the discipline, it has to be consistent with other cases, and it was in this manner.'' http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/08/roger_goodell_explains_why_jos.html
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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"We have to remain consistent,'' said Goodell. "We can't just make up the discipline, it has to be consistent with other cases, and it was in this manner.''
If consistent, he means, consistent in domestic abuse, may be.
But you got guys like James Harrison suspended for play on the field (fair). Sean Payton and Greg Williams suspended for the bounty gate. Mike Vick on dog fighting. All reasonable.
Ray Rice knocks out his now wife and two games? What a joke..........
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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-JC-
Mary Kay Cabot
‏@MaryKayCabot
Arbitrator Harold Henderson will make the decision on #browns josh Gordon's appeal (not expected today) and it will be final.
Twitter Link
I think that the fact that there is an arbitrator involved is good news for Josh (in terms of avoiding a suspension). It allows the league to save face as they won't be the ones handing out the leniency, so they won't have to answer any questions on it. It would also give them a platform to stand on to come out and say that they need to review their program, etc...
I think that there will be a happy middle ground found here that let's Josh play ball, let's the league not be the "bad" guy (especially on the heels of the heat they are taking right now on Ray Rice), and let's the league and the NFLPA have an opening to discuss a dramatic change to their policies on testing.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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four incidents before you actually reach a suspension in a drug-related case? hmmm so that means Gordon had 3 other incidents before he got suspended last year? know he failed one pot test in 2012 wonder what the other two incidents were?
the most recent was a cough syrup violation... I think it contained codeine, or something... perhaps an ephedrine clone? Not pot at all.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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four incidents before you actually reach a suspension in a drug-related case? hmmm so that means Gordon had 3 other incidents before he got suspended last year? know he failed one pot test in 2012 wonder what the other two incidents were?
the most recent was a cough syrup violation... I think it contained codeine, or something... perhaps an ephedrine clone? Not pot at all.
yea but that was a drug-related case. his first suspension. so he had 3 other drug-related incidents to get that first suspension?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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four incidents before you actually reach a suspension in a drug-related case? hmmm so that means Gordon had 3 other incidents before he got suspended last year? know he failed one pot test in 2012 wonder what the other two incidents were?
the most recent was a cough syrup violation... I think it contained codeine, or something... perhaps an ephedrine clone? Not pot at all.
yea but that was a drug-related case. his first suspension. so he had 3 other drug-related incidents to get that first suspension?
Nobody really knows, due to the confidentiality of all this stuff. You can make some deductions based on the policy itself though.
The most favorable-to-JG explanation is that he entered the league in stage one of the program, due to his college history. He was then advanced to stage two without failing a test. Then he failed a test his rookie year (fine only, kept strictly confidential), failed a test last year (for codeine, punishment reduced due to the clause in the policy about prescription drug abuse), and then this looming failed test that could result in a year+ banishment.
The less-favorable-to-JG explanations are downright ugly, and I haven't seen anything explicitly pointing to it, but you never know.
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What scares me is we got way too many experts on the board...lol : D
I'm an expert, depending on the subject. 
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-JC-
Mary Kay Cabot
‏@MaryKayCabot
Arbitrator Harold Henderson will make the decision on #browns josh Gordon's appeal (not expected today) and it will be final.
Twitter Link
I think that the fact that there is an arbitrator involved is good news for Josh (in terms of avoiding a suspension). It allows the league to save face as they won't be the ones handing out the leniency, so they won't have to answer any questions on it. It would also give them a platform to stand on to come out and say that they need to review their program, etc...
I think that there will be a happy middle ground found here that let's Josh play ball, let's the league not be the "bad" guy (especially on the heels of the heat they are taking right now on Ray Rice), and let's the league and the NFLPA have an opening to discuss a dramatic change to their policies on testing.
I think the arbitrator will go for the full year long suspension and the NFL can "hide" behind their decision and have it not be in conflict with the Rice situation. Meaning...
The NFL decided on Rice.
The arbitrator interpreted the CBA and ruled on their own.
So when the fans complain about hitting Mary versus hitting Mary Jane, they can say the suspension came from two different entities. As if, Goodell wouldn't mind lowering Josh's suspension, but his hands are tied, the CBA and arbitrator ruled on it.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Can Josh take this to court? If he gets the year?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
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The most favorable-to-JG explanation is that he entered the league in stage one of the program, due to his college history. He was then advanced to stage two without failing a test. Then he failed a test his rookie year (fine only, kept strictly confidential), failed a test last year (for codeine, punishment reduced due to the clause in the policy about prescription drug abuse), and then this looming failed test that could result in a year+ banishment.
I think that is pretty much what happened. but the man said 4. lets say collage was 1 strike, fail 1 for pot was 2 codeine was the last that is #4 what happen to #3?
He was then advanced to stage two without failing a test
Inside NFL's substance abuse program
On day 80ish, I got a call from the head psychiatrist in Chicago. She informed me that their tests concluded with the notion that I am not an alcoholic, I just made some bad decisions on the evening I was arrested. I was so pumped after that phone call. I thought I was done with "The Program" after this 90-day Stage 1 phase. Then on Day 90, I got a call from Dr. Spadafora, a man I had never talked to, but apparently he was one of the head guys of "The Program," and he let me know that he was "the man" very quickly into our conversation. It went something like this:
"Patrick, this is Dr. Spadafora from NFL substance of abuse program, informing you that I have decided to move you into Stage 2 of the substance of abuse program. It is exactly like Stage 1, but this lasts two years," he said.
"WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA", I said. "I talked to a sweet lady 10 days ago, who knows me, and she said I was not an alcoholic"
"Well, I'm the one that made the decision not her," he told me.
I was furious and fired back with a nice, "Then why the hell did I go to Chicago? Get tested by people that aren't you? You don't even know me. And what the hell is the purpose of Stage 1? If you do everything right, you're going to go to Stage 2 anyways, shouldn't there just be one stage then?"
"We'll look into changing your starting date of Stage 2 to 90 days ago, we'll get back to you if it changes," he said.
And boom, my mind was blown..........
I was urine tested 190 times in 27 months. I had 108 counselor sessions. 100 "change of location" conversations
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/08/26/inside-nfl-substance-abuse-program/
never knew you could go from stage 1 to stage 2 for no reason until I read this.
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JG's argument needs to be that while yes Sample A was positive the confirmatory test on Sample B while technically positive because of a change in cut-off for the confirmatory test was the same specimen and was negative based on the cut-off for a Sample A thus invalidating the test altogether. That is the only argument that he could possibly win and if won would result in no suspension at all. Otherwise, I can't see how he avoids a full year suspension.
I can see that happening then the NFL coming out and giving him a 4 game suspension for DUI.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Strike 1 when he entered the league
Strike 2 – Weed as a rookie
Strike 3 – Codeine
Strike 4 – Weed that he is appealing.
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JG's argument needs to be that while yes Sample A was positive the confirmatory test on Sample B while technically positive because of a change in cut-off for the confirmatory test was the same specimen and was negative based on the cut-off for a Sample A thus invalidating the test altogether. That is the only argument that he could possibly win and if won would result in no suspension at all. Otherwise, I can't see how he avoids a full year suspension.
I can see that happening then the NFL coming out and giving him a 4 game suspension for DUI.
According to NFL policy, the "B'' test does not have to be above 15 nanograms to confirm the first test -- it just has to contain some of the same banned substance.
I still say if he gets a break it will be from going to rehab. not test results.
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Strike 1 when he entered the league
Strike 2 – Weed as a rookie
Strike 3 – Codeine
Strike 4 – Weed that he is appealing.
no. he said #4 was the suspend stage. Codeine is a drug so that should be #4 not #3?
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The real hypocrisy in all of this is those lambasting Gordon, but remaining mum on the Manziel dollar bill scandal. I'm sure Manziel knows about the penalties of being caught too, so where's the cry for suspension there? That's hypocritical.
Missed this nugget. Can't say I disagree.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon continued
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