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Fights do not show toughness nor improves toughness.
However, full contact, tackle to the ground practice will do it. Being given games during camp, trying to make winners and losers, installing the hate of losing....thats all good stuff I havent seen other coaches here do. Reward winning, punish losing.
you had a good run Hank.
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I think on Pettine's level and praise of the battle result of throwing a ball is the word "INTENSITY" more so than toughness. So intense that a play ends in FIGHT MODE and this is a violent game where you have to be in that extra mode...that extra intensity.
I think you hit it on the head there. INTENSITY and a sense of URGENCY. I've watched too many Browns games that lacked both. I think both of those qualities have to be there from the kick-off rather than waiting until we're in a pickle.
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For all I care we could play in my lil' pony uniforms of pastel pink and purple with rainbows and hearts as our logo....
If we win we will be tough, if you don't win you are not tough..
This is just mindless jawing.... yawn...
Absolutely correct. Mindless jawing. So why post it in the first place?
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Maybe we need a "mindless jawing" forum. Give us a break from the QB competition thread running through almost everything it seems. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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lol, no kidding. Or God forbid anyone should talk about anything other than winning as a way of winning. That only winners win and that the only way to win is to be winners. If you're not winning you're losing and that the path to winning games is to win them. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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lol, no kidding. Or God forbid anyone should talk about anything other than winning as a way of winning. That only winners win and that the only way to win is to be winners. If you're not winning you're losing and that the path to winning games is to win them.
Ha, well said.
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Wish I had said that (not certain I could). But it is a point well stated, well made, and well worth making IMO. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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lol, no kidding. Or God forbid anyone should talk about anything other than winning as a way of winning. That only winners win and that the only way to win is to be winners. If you're not winning you're losing and that the path to winning games is to win them.
Oh anyone can talk about it, including Coach Pettine. But it only holds validity if we win. Saying things and producing results are two very different things. While the two aren't mutually exclusive, more times than not they are.
I don't think it's so far fetched for people to expect results after we have only heard words from regime after regime and head coach after head coach.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'll say it this way, this time. What can Pettine say if there is no opportunity yet to win on Aug 1? The media keeps sticking a microphone in his face and winning/toughness/finishing./competitiveness is a continual theme of the questions he's asked.
How long would anyone be satisfied if he continually answered, "no games played yet, can't answer until we face live competition". As the head coach he must prepare at each stage of the preseason. Including this portion where all that can be done is being done internally.So he discusses the team in terms of it's current development. Nothing more or less.
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I wasn't really knocking Pettine for making the statement. You're right, he has to say something.
My main point that I find it odd how people put so much stock into such a statement. Even to the point of poking fun at people who want to see results before they take such things seriously.
Year after year and regime after regime, people have some glowing reviews over such statements. In the end the product on the field hasn't lived up to any of it.
So while I don't blame the coach for making such statements, it never ceases to amaze me how much emphasis people seem to place on such statements.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You all are looking at the words...you looking at some variation of those words in the past.
Words are words...what is important is what do the PLAYERS believe. Pettine so far has had that - I'll follow you coach into the fire! Aura about him with his players.
Win or loss we can tell when a team is playing its all! If so we should win more than we lose.
I see the talent, I see the coaching, I know what Pettine is talking about and toughness has followed him every where. So I see no reason why it won't come here.
The only thing that sours me on this season is the lack of continuity. Lets face it takes time to click on all cylinders. D faster than O but that is what I'm not sure of.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Believe me when I say that I hope everything you espouse rings true.
But Pettine has never held the role of HC in the NFL before. We really have no idea of what this season will hold. I'm certainly not rooting for him to fail.
I just wish to see some results before I buy into catch phrases. I don't believe that's an unrealistic way to approach things.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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As many know, I was probably the biggest buddy ryan fan ever and Pettine appears to be doing his best to copy Buddy Ryan's philosophy of the tough talk, tough actions. He wants these guys to be mean and nasty and you are starting to see it. O scores and rubbing it in the defenses face and Pettine has that sneaky little smirk on his face. I see the evil little hampsters running around in that brain pan of his lol
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I know you are being cautious. This is what I sort of know about Pettine.
1. Being in NY I've read/seen clips/stories about his work. Unlike Mangini where I was able to view his exploits in person at Camp...Jets don't practice at Hofstra any more. But still I sort of new Pettine from his stay in NY and they still followed his exploits in Buffalo.
You can see his leadership. I don't buy that first HC stuff. Leadership is Leadership.
2. HC... I think he was born to be a HC, his entire life revolved around him being a HC. This is something he has prepared for in most of his life.
3. I see him in a unique category, He is a players coach and he is a disciplinarian. Its like taking Mangini and RAC and molding them to one. We stepped into a lucky pile of do-do with Haslams blowup.
I get the results part...of course. It just doesn't make the positive views incorrect just like being cautious is not incorrect its just ones choice.
But I praise Pettine not out of HOPE...I do have some prior knowledge of him and was pleased when we hired him and from day one state that I hated the Blow up...Hated it. But I thought Haslam was going to come out it smelling like a rose cause of Pettine. Right guy at the Right time at the Right place. We are a team of Destiny 
Mourgrym...as I said Pettine has been groomed for this job all his life. Taking positives from many great coaches including his fathers.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Do not forget, Mike Pettine had a good mentor...his father, Mike Pettine Sr.
Jr lived football, nearly 24/7...playing for his father and coaching against his father.
Jr played on both sides of the ball...QB and DB.
Just listening to Jr talking about the game...you can tell, "he knows football".
Look, Mike Pettine is a rookie HC and there is nothing going change that fact. ..he will make rookie coaching mistakes. But, my personal opinion, Mike jr is going learn quickly.
For the first time since the Browns returned to the NFL, I believe the Browns have the type of owner, GM and HC in place, to produce a winner...
...IF the owner takes a step back and gives his young HC and GM the room and time needed to grow into the jobs they were hired to do.
Last edited by mac; 08/02/14 09:57 AM.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Didn't forget Mac...its right there in my very last sentence
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Just because this thread had a Bridgewater mention in the original post ...... Teddy Bridgewater needs to play faster | ProFootballTalk http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/05/teddy-bridgewater-needs-to-play-faster/Whether they were drafted in the first round or signed as an undrafted free agent, there’s a learning curve that every rookie experiences when he makes it to the NFL. Lions tight end Eric Ebron feels like he’s already scaled it, but another NFC North neophyte knows there’s still work to do. Vikings quarterback Teddy Bridgewater has been hearing from offensive coordinator Norv Turner and head coach Mike Zimmer about the need to speed up his game if he’s going to thrive against NFL defenses. “Coach Turner always tells me I have to be quicker with my decision making,” Bridgewater said, via the Pioneer Press. “He has been telling me I’ve got to get back from under center fast. … That’s been the main point for me. Just playing faster, progressing faster and just getting rid of the football faster.” Bridgewater hasn’t faced a defense that’s trying to plant him in the turf yet and that will be the easiest way to figure out the benefits of getting the ball out as quickly as possible, so it’s something worth watching when the Vikings kick off their preseason schedule later this week. If he doesn’t progress quickly on that front, the chances of Matt Cassel starting could increase because it’s a core part of Turner’s system and one that the Vikings aren’t likely to sacrifice in the early part of the season just because Bridgewater isn’t there yet. Then again, Zimmer said it’s been an issue for all of the quarterbacks so Bridgewater may not find himself too far behind as he tries to adjust his game to NFL speed.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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same thing for any rookie QB, IMO. More should not be expected at this point for any guy.
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One thing that has to make evaluation for the Vikings really hard has to be that all of their QBs have been facing a defense that was really, really bad last year.
I think that our defense was pretty solid last year ..... and we added a pair of really good CB in the draft ... so I think that our QBs, facing our defense, have a much tougher challenge than Bridgewater facing the Vikings defense.
We'll see how things play out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
One thing that has to make evaluation for the Vikings really hard has to be that all of their QBs have been facing a defense that was really, really bad last year.
I think that our defense was pretty solid last year ..... and we added a pair of really good CB in the draft ... so I think that our QBs, facing our defense, have a much tougher challenge than Bridgewater facing the Vikings defense.
We'll see how things play out.
The question for me is do they force Bridgewater in there early just because their other QBs are so bad or do they let him get ready before shooing him onto the field.
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I think that our QBs, facing our defense, have a much tougher challenge than Bridgewater facing the Vikings defense.
We'll see how things play out.
One very valid reason Hoyer and Manziel are struggling at bit. The hope being this makes them MUCH better when the real bullets are flying.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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If our D is projected to be in the top 5-10, it stands to reason that either will fare better in real games against lesser D's.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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I'm a tough coach,and I got a tough team
With my bald head,yeah I'm looking kinda mean
I want tough fans,who use tough words
A tough new mascot,who takes tough terds
It's not about winning,It's how you play the game
Playing like a Brown,is my motto come to fame
So if you don't like it,well its too bad for you
Cause I'm a tough guy,so whatcha gonna do
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A few comments about a few posts in this thread: --Our defense is NOT projected to be a top 5 defense, unless of course, you listen to our fans who always say stuff like that. --Teddy processes the game way faster than any other rookie qb. In fact, he processes the game way faster than most any NFL qb I have seen. You didn't hear Norv saying that Teddy was too slow. In fact, he has done nothing but praise Teddy's intelligence and understanding of the game. Oh................how many positive Teddy articles did you ignore until you found that one, you know...........since his name was mentioned?
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 08/05/14 09:42 PM.
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Quote:
A few comments about a few posts in this thread:
--Our defense is NOT projected to be a top 5 defense, unless of course, you listen to our fans who always say stuff like that.
--Teddy processes the game way faster than any other rookie qb. In fact, he processes the game way faster than most any NFL qb I have seen. You didn't hear Norv saying that Teddy was too slow. In fact, he has done nothing but praise Teddy's intelligence and understanding of the game.
Oh................how many positive Teddy articles did you ignore until you found that one, you know...........since his name was mentioned?
The Vikings defense stunk last year. STUNK. They had what ... 12 INT for the entire year last year? They allowed 37 passing TD. They allowed a 64% completion rate, and almost 300 yards/game. (287) (6595 yards passing allowed) Ugh. They were awful. They didn't take a CB until the 6th round. They did sign Captain Munnerlyn, all 5'8" of him ..... and have Rhodes, who didn't exactly shut guys down last year .... and what else? Their Safeties are about as far from being play-makers as possible. They have no none who can pick a ball off. No one. Their guys currently (as far as I can tell) lined up as starters, had 4 INT combined last year. As far as I can tell, their entire secondary had 9 picks last year.
He is not going up against a Joe Haden, or a Buster Skrine, or a Justin Gilbert .... any of whom would start immediately for the Vikings. We have guys like McFadden, who you have said you like, and Desir as well. That's exceptional quality depth, something the Vikings lack.
Our Safeties completely blow away the Vikings. It's not even close.
Now look at the receiver corps. The Vikings have Greg Jennings, Jerome Simpson, Cordelle Patterson, and Rudolph at TE. (who missed half of last year with an injury) They don't necessarily have great depth beyond that, but as the starter, these are the guys Teddy is working with.
I just mentioned an article I read. You don't like it, that 's fine. You don't have to like everything posted here. However, to say that Bridgewater hasn't had advantages, in the receivers he is working with, and the defense he faces in camp, and to believe that the Browns and Vikings are anywhere close in quality of their secondaries, is to ignore reality.
As far vas a top 5 defense ..... I never said that. I did say that we could well have a top 5 secondary, which is somewhat different than claiming a top 5 defense ..... but i do I believe, is an accurate statement.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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~ Legend
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Bridgewater is working with a stacked deck, not to mention he'll probably be the best QB out of this class (Unless JG balls out once Brady retires). It'd really not be fair for Johnny and our offense to be compared to his.
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At least Pettine doesn't keep saying "battled".... 
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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DISCLAIMER: No one should interpret the following statement as taking sides in the "Versatile vs. the World" debate.
YT, Harrison Smith of the Vikes was injured last year and only appeared in 8 games. When healthy he is probably a better FS than Gibson. That is all.
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DISCLAIMER: No one should interpret the following statement as taking sides in the "Versatile vs. the World" debate.
You should change your name to "Switzerland Dawg"..
Seriously, have you noticed the number of posts in that series (which is going on in about 4 threads now) where somebody makes a reasonable football posts, claims they don't want to be a part of it... then slips in an insult at the end.
yebat' Putin
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Bridgewater is working with a stacked deck, not to mention he'll probably be the best QB out of this class (Unless JG balls out once Brady retires). It'd really not be fair for Johnny and our offense to be compared to his.
Eh, I don't know. Farmer wanted Bridgewater which makes me a little nervous why we didn't draft him. But I have said this before...Cleveland has long needed a QB with some attitude and superior competitive fire. Someone who isn't going to back down from the Pitts and Balts of the league. Someone who will actually relish that challenge. Not get that glassy eyed deer in the headlights aw schucks slumped shoulders crap we are so used to seeing. I think Manziel is a perfect fit for Cleveland. I have also been pleasantly surprised with his skillset in camp. I think he will end up being a better QB than Bridgewater. Maybe not this year but in the long run.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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At least in terms of what I wrote earlier, I didn't intend any insult. Insult to who? It is accurate and a tad bit humorous. Any insult would have to owned by the supposed target.
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Wasn't saying you did it.. sorry if that wasn't clear...
yebat' Putin
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Whew...thanks, can't we all just get along?
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Vers was arguing he didnt want a high pick on a receiver specifically did not see the value in Watkins or evans top 10 with all that other talent available. It would have been hard for me to pass on Evans but spending a 2nd on Mathis would have been a solid investment good bang for your buck. I think Vers like me had a top 15 type grade on the kid. This whole argument is just silly and the gang mentality I hate.
Now back to the actual topic of Culture of Toughness and when you are hearing this is the most physical camp since the early 90s, it says Pettine is practicing the way he is preaching. He is trying to replace the woe is me attitude with a killer instinct. I think we will be penalized a lot but I also think we will be a 4th quarter team for a change.
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On topic. It was reported yesterday that Pettine has had the team in pads for every practice thus far. His feeling is this best approximates game conditions. Said he'd continue it until he reaches the limit set by the CBA. Certainly seems like a practical decision aimed at increasing toughness. On both sides of the ball BTW.
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Quote:
On topic. It was reported yesterday that Pettine has had the team in pads for every practice thus far. His feeling is this best approximates game conditions. Said he'd continue it until he reaches the limit set by the CBA. Certainly seems like a practical decision aimed at increasing toughness. On both sides of the ball BTW.
I bet nearly every team pads up to the allowable limit. I'd be surprised if it was otherwise.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
DISCLAIMER: No one should interpret the following statement as taking sides in the "Versatile vs. the World" debate.
You should change your name to "Switzerland Dawg"..
Seriously, have you noticed the number of posts in that series (which is going on in about 4 threads now) where somebody makes a reasonable football posts, claims they don't want to be a part of it... then slips in an insult at the end.
Like you just did?
You know, it's astounding that people do NOT want to hear different opinions. Seriously. Let's all just say this:
Our WRs are great.
The Browns are going to have a top 5 defense.
The offense will be much improved.
We are a team of destiny.
Our running game is going to be amongst the best in the league.
Our FO gets it.
Yep, that is how we grow as learners. We all agree and say the same things over and over. Let's not even think of ulterior thinking and let's ban objections. We all need to be the same. It reminds me of the Pink Floyd video where the kids are on the moving walkway and then dumped into the meat grinder.
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Quote:
Our FO gets it.
I believe they actually do...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
You know, it's astounding that people do NOT want to hear different opinions. Seriously. Let's all just say this:
Our WRs are great.
The Browns are going to have a top 5 defense.
The offense will be much improved.
We are a team of destiny.
Our running game is going to be amongst the best in the league.
Our FO gets it.
I can't say any of those things because we have no evidence to inducate those things.
But I know how you feel about taking heat for feeling differently than most.
I went through a lot of that last year.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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