DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Camp Stuff Continued.......

I was responding to your specific concern of the offense getting outscored by two TDs by the defense on family day. I wasn't being condescending.

As far as Hoyer and the offensive performance during TC, I am not suprised at all. There is far more talent on D than on an O. I expect our offense to struggle greatly at times this year. Anyone who would think otherwise would be fooling themselves. Especially, with the possible Gordon suspension. Also, I fully expect Manziel to beat Hoyer for the starting job. IMO, Hoyer is a very solid backup and likely not much more.

As far as the Mingo Int, I think it's great. One of the D coaches criticized his lack of ball catching skills his past year and thought he could've had more picks. He's been working on the jugs machine and it looks like it's paying off.

It most certainly was Hoyer.

jc:

I know the general rule of thumb in training camp is the defense is usually ahead of the offense, but I've been to TC three times this year (an many times in other years) and this defense looks convincingly better than offense. The margin is huge.

I think the QBs have a lot to do with that but watching how fast and strong the defense approaches the offense is rather scary. I know its only TC but I am really excited to watch that entire d play. Good depth, good leadership, and they look hungry to knock some bodies around besides their own.

Robertson listed above Kirksey.
Skrine listed about Gilbert.

Well, they may be listed higher, but to my recollection they've been slowly getting less and less plays with the ones. I might be wrong about Kirksey (cause I move around a lot during the practices) but Gilbert playing with the ones is pretty noticeable....consistently noticeable.

And Bitonio will be the starting LG. It's done.

2014 Browns training camp snapshot: Day 9

Lineup updates: The Browns reinserted quarterback Brian Hoyer into their first-team offense Tuesday, a day after rookie Johnny Manziel took snaps with the starters for the first time. Browns coach Mike Pettine said it was “all part of the plan.” On Monday, Pettine said, “there’s a more than reasonable chance” Hoyer will start the preseason opener Saturday night at Detroit. Hoyer is listed as the No. 1 quarterback on a depth chart the Browns unveiled Tuesday. In general, Pettine said the depth chart will be “very fluid.” Pettine has yet to officially name a starting quarterback for the weekend. “We’re going to meet on that,” Pettine said. “We’re going to set the reps, but I can’t say anything definitive right now.” ... Free safety Tashaun Gipson (sprained knee) returned to practice but didn’t participate in team drills. Jordan Poyer and Jim Leonhard rotated in Gipson’s spot with the starters. ... John Greco and Garrett Gilkey continued to rotate at right guard with the first-team offense.

Highs and lows: Hoyer completed 8-of-12 passes in 11-on-11 drills, according to the Beacon Journal’s unofficial count. Manziel got off to a hot start, fizzed at the end and finished 8-of-16. He still had the overall edge on Hoyer. ... Receiver Travis Benjamin burned rookie cornerback Pierre Desir on a go route but dropped a perfect, would-be touchdown pass from Manziel in a team drill. ... Slot receiver Andrew Hawkins dived to catch a pass from Manziel on an out route. ... Desir broke up a deep pass from rookie quarterback Connor Shaw to receiver Anthony Armstrong. ... Hoyer completed a pass of about 35 yards to rookie receiver Taylor Gabriel over the coverage of cornerback Buster Skrine. ... Receiver Miles Austin slid and caught an under-thrown pass from Manziel for a gain of about 35 yards. ... Inside linebacker Karlos Dansby and rookie running back Isaiah Crowell got into a scuffle.

Injuries: If Gipson’s knee responds well, he’d be expected to get team work Wednesday and face the Lions on Saturday, Pettine said. ... Cornerback Isaiah Trufant (knee) also returned to practice. ... Tight ends Jordan Cameron (shoulder) and Jim Dray, offensive tackle Reid Fragel (lower leg), inside linebacker Tank Carder (foot), offensive lineman Randall Harris (knee) and did not practice.

Wednesday’s schedule: Practice from 9:30 a.m.-12:10 p.m.

— Nate Ulrich

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/2014-browns-training-camp-snapshot-day-9-1.510848

Wasnt a bad throw, it was to the outside which is where it supposed to go, might have been a hair underthrown but the TE was just late getting his head around but made up for it with a hell of a catch.

glad to see some of the receivers stepping up. Benjamin's gotta watch out because that's basically the route they would keep him around for.

Tuesday's Browns training camp observations

Kevin Jones Staff Writer @Mr_KevinJones Facebook

Offense starts clicking, first depth chart released

A much needed offensive explosion for the Cleveland Browns on Tuesday. Brian Hoyer and Johnny Manziel were zipping footballs all over the field. For the first time, the defense actually looked winded from an array of consecutive completions. There was a sense of urgency from both Hoyer and Manziel. Neither quarterback threw an interception in team drills. Mental mistakes we saw last week were not very apparent, either. And, most notably, the playbook is opening up. Each quarterback had several throws of at least 30 yards. It was the most encouraging effort on offense we’ve seen since Day two of camp.

Linebacker Karlos Dansby made it known he wasn’t happy he wasn’t chosen for the Pro Bowl in 2013 with the Arizona Cardinals. It’s hard to argue against his case. Dansby’s statistics (122 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 19 passes defended) and the Cardinals 11-5 record warranted him to be there.

“I think it’s a joke man,” said Dansby, 32. “I’ve got to go out and earn my respect and I’m going to do it again this year.”

The Browns released their first depth chart of the 2014 season on Tuesday.

“I did it because I had to do it,” said Pettine with a laugh about the depth chart.

Some notable things to address on the defensive side of the football: Even with limited training camp time because of a hamstring, Billy Winn is listed as the starting right defensive end. Barkevious Mingo and Paul Kruger are the starting outside linebackers and Buster Skrine is still holding onto the other outside cornerback spot opposite of Joe Haden.

Offensively, Josh Gordon and Miles Austin are listed as the starting receivers, with Andrew Hawkins and Nate Burleson as their primary backups. But we all know the rotations and reps in preseason games will be constant.

“[The depth chart is] very loose in our minds,” said Pettine. “I wouldn’t put a lot of credence in that. It will be very fluid and there will likely be changes after every week.”

One decision that might be agonizing for Ray Farmer and the coaching staff? Which third running back to keep behind Ben Tate and Terrance West. Undrafted rookie Isaiah Crowell ripped off the nicest run of the day and arguably has the highest ceiling amongst his competition. Edwin Baker still looks like the fastest running back on the outside edge. Chris Ogbannaya is by far the best at blocking. And we’ve written about how Dion Lewis’ unique style is benefitting him. Game action will be telling for this competitive quartet, probably more than any other position on the roster.

In year one of the Browns’ offense under Kyle Shanahan, MarQueis Gray is busy carving himself a significant role in the offense. Pettine told ClevelandBrowns.com a few months back that he’d like Gray to morph into a player like Dolphins tight end Charles Clay – a Swiss Army knife who can do everything. So far, the coaching staff has been pleased with Gray’s progression, and his move to fullback means he’ll be on the field for a large portion of the snaps. Watch for how many passing targets the 24-year-old sees his way on Saturday in Detroit.

News and nuggets

The Browns and the rest of the NFL are still awaiting word on Josh Gordon’s suspension appeal.

“We don’t have an exact date,” said Pettine. “As frustrating as it is for Josh, I think he’s handled it well. He’s been practicing hard, giving good effort, finishing plays. Assuming if we don’t hear anything, then he’ll be out there Saturday.”

Tight ends Jordan Cameron and Jim Dray were held out of practice on Tuesday. There is still no word on whether Cameron (shoulder) will suit up against the Lions.

Safety Tashaun Gipson was also limited during team drills. Pettine expects his work load to increase tomorrow and anticipates Gipson playing in Detroit.

Michael Bowie, the versatile offensive lineman the Browns plucked from the waiver wire, is scheduled to go through his physical today. Multiple reports indicate the former Seattle Seahawk injured his shoulder which may require surgery.

Link

BEREA, Ohio - Some observations from Browns training camp Tuesday morning...

1. Johnny Manziel had far and away his best day throwing the ball. Brian Hoyer had his best day throwing in a week. The offense had its best day in a while, period, and that's no coincidence. Still there aren't many touchdowns being scored. There might not have been any real touchdowns scored the whole practice, in fact, since Manziel's best deep ball of camp was dropped by Travis Benjamin despite Benjamin being at least 10 yards behind the nearest defender. The Browns are very much a team in transition and an experienced defense hasn't helped the offense's cause, but here's a bet that the coaches want to see more days like Tuesday from the offense going forward.

2. It's no coincidence that Josh Gordon was a part of at least two of the most visually impressive plays of Tuesday. Gordon can really, really play, and when he's engaged on the practice field he's capable of dominating. Clearly, Gordon's been thinking about other things. And there are still dozens more theories on his situation than clear answers (there are zero), but he's been back for two days and all four quarterbacks know he generally make things happen.

3. Manziel makes his push. Gordon awaits his fate. There's no shortage of storylines this week.

4. There's still not much coming from head coach Mike Pettine about the quarterbacks. Manziel got the first snap in the inside run drill Tuesday. Hoyer worked with the starters otherwise. Hoyer was listed at No. 1 on the depth chart, but there's only a depth chart because the Browns have to submit one in advance of the preseason opener Saturday in Detroit. Pettine said he still has to meet with his coaches to distribute reps and name a starting quarterback for that game. The quarterbacks are scheduled to meet with the media after Wednesday's practice. So, stay tuned.

5. There hasn't been any full tackling since last Saturday's scrimmage, but the Browns have been in full pads now for seven straight practices and Pettine said he expects that to continue through next week. Camp Cupcake, apparently, is not for Pettine. The practices have been fast-paced, entertaining and competitive, moreso when the offense answers the call like it did Tuesday.

6. Rookies are making plays everywhere. Joel Bitonio isn't, but he seems entrenched at left guard. Justin Gilbert will be the starting right corner sooner than later, and the way he and Joe Haden have played over much of camp is a very encouraging sign. Christian Kirksey is getting more reps as a starting linebacker, Terrance West will get touches, Manziel is making his push and Pierre Desir is breaking up passes every day. If you're looking toward the Browns being better this season and for seasons to come, drafting well and upgrading talent across several positions is a good place to start. It's way too early to make any kind of conclusion, but maybe this 2014 draft class will finally be the one that propels the Browns forward.

http://www.foxsports.com/ohio/story/clev...-impress-080514

No, it wasn't JF... It might have been a horrible throw, it might have been a miscommunication. He threw it before the guy turned up field.. QB might have just expected him to take out wider.. who knows.. very nice catch though.

Browns Notes: LB Karlos Dansby calls himself ‘best,’ says it’s ‘a joke’ he didn’t make Pro Bowl last year

BEREA — Inside linebacker Karlos Dansby has never been voted to a Pro Bowl, and he didn’t make the NFL Network’s countdown of the top 100 players of 2013.

He has his own ranking system.

“I’m the best. I’m the best. I’m the best. I’m the best right now, by far,” he said Tuesday. “Until I leave the game, I’m the best. That’s how I look at it, that’s how I approach it and my numbers say the same.”

Dansby had 135 tackles, including 119 solo, 6.5 sacks, four interceptions, two touchdowns, 21 passes defensed, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery for Arizona last year. Despite the impressive numbers, he was beaten out for a spot on the NFC Pro Bowl roster by San Francisco’s NaVorro Bowman and Patrick Willis and Carolina’s Luke Kuechly.

“It’s a joke, I think it’s a joke,” Dansby said, also mentioning the top 100 list. “I just have to go out and earn my respect now. I’m going to go out and do it again this year.”

The Browns signed Dansby, 32, in free agency to a four-year, $24 million contract. He replaced D’Qwell Jackson, a captain who was released.

Dansby (6-foot-3, 251 pounds) is bigger than Jackson and has assumed his leadership role. Dansby’s started 144 games in 10 years — eight in two stints with Arizona and two years with Miami.

He has 1,090 tackles, 38 sacks, 15 interceptions, four touchdowns, 69 pass breakups and 16 forced fumbles. He’s the only active player with 30 sacks and 10 interceptions.

“I’ve got a chip on my shoulder, man, because I have been underrated for a long time,” Dansby said. “I haven’t had that recognition that I think I deserved. I’ve got to prove myself year in and year out. It ain’t about what I did last year, it’s about what I’m going to do this year.”

He sent a message to undrafted rookie running back Isaiah Crowell on Tuesday during a one-on-one pass protection drill. Dansby wouldn’t let Crowell get off the ground.

STATUS QUO
Receiver Josh Gordon practiced again and coach Mike Pettine said he’ll play Saturday in the preseason opener if there’s been no ruling on his appeal of an indefinite drug suspension.

“It’s been reported, I think, it’ll be a chunk of time,” Pettine said of the timetable for a decision from the league. “We just don’t know when. We don’t have an exact date.

“As frustrating as it is for Josh, I think he’s handled it well. He’s been practicing hard, giving good effort, finishing plays. If we don’t hear anything, then he’ll be out there Saturday.”

Gordon appeared to give up on a couple of routes early in camp, but receivers coach Mike McDaniel doesn’t think he’s been distracted.

“To his credit, he’s been very, very good about coming into work and making it about football,” McDaniel said. “In his mind, he wants to be as good as there is, so when you’re showing plays of other people at his position doing things that he hasn’t put in his game yet, he’s interested and very competitive to work on that.”

A RUSHER’S PERSPECTIVE
Outside linebacker Jabaal Sheard is a fan of rookie quarterback Johnny Manziel. He’s not a fan of running after him all day.

“You get tired fast,” Sheard said. “You have to have a great rotation. I can remember in the scrimmage having him out there on the edge a couple times. After about six plays I was done. I was done chasing him. I had nothing left in the tank.

“That’s the way he thrives. He’s an outside-the-pocket guy. He’s going to run around and create plays.”

Manziel was back with the second-team offense after spending Monday with the starters for the first time. Manziel had his best day of practice Tuesday, including two strings of completions. He looked decisive in his reads for the first time.

“That comes with it,” Pettine said. “That’s also understanding the play and then who he’s reading. Am I reading the weak safety? Am I reading the strong safety? Where am I looking to go with this ball?

“I think that’s true of any rookie quarterback, that most of the time you’re going to see they’re much slower. They have to anticipate. Where you see where (Brian) Hoyer’s ahead is his ability to throw a ball before a guy breaks open, but we certainly see Johnny making strides in that direction.”

NO RELIEF IN SIGHT
The players better get used to life in pads.

The team has been in full pads for seven straight practices, and Pettine said that isn’t about to change.

“We’ve talked about being in pads up through the second (preseason) game, and then we would evaluate it from there, kind of where we are health-wise,” he said. “But up until Game 2, if we’re allowed to be in pads, we’ll be in them.”

The Browns practice three more times this week and five times next week before the second preseason game in Washington on Monday, Aug. 18.

“It’s training camp, man, so it’s time to grind,” outside linebacker Paul Kruger said. “There’s a shape that comes with being in pads and hitting each other. You can’t just come out here and run on the field, you have to get hit, you have to be put in those situations. So I think the coaches are just trying to get us in that kind of football shape.”

The collective bargaining agreement limits the number of padded practices during the regular season.

DEPTH CHARGE
The Browns released their first depth chart in advance of Saturday’s game at Detroit.

“I did it because I had to do it,” Pettine said. “It’s very loose in our minds. I wouldn’t put a lot of credence in that. It will be very fluid and there will likely be changes after every week.”

The notable listings on the first-team offense were: Hoyer at quarterback, John Greco at right guard (ahead of Garrett Gilkey) and Gordon and Miles Austin at receiver.

“We listed Brian (Hoyer) as the starter,” said Pettine, who didn’t officially name him the starter for the Lions game.

On defense, Billy Winn was listed as the starter at right end, but Phil Taylor took the first reps Tuesday. Paul Kruger and Barkevious Mingo were listed as the starters at outside linebacker with Sheard as a backup, but it’s really a three-man rotation.

“I look at it as a backup one — not really a two,” Sheard said. “If anybody goes down, I’m the next man in.”

Cornerback Buster Skrine remained ahead of first-round pick Justin Gilbert.

EXTRA POINTS
Free safety Tashaun Gipson (knee) and nickelback Isaiah Trufant (knee) returned to practice.

** Tight ends Jordan Cameron (shoulder) and Jim Dray (shoulder), linebacker Tank Carder (foot) and offensive lineman Michael Bowie (shoulder), Randall Harris (knee), Reid Fragel (lower leg) and Nick McDonald (wrist) didn’t practice.

** Defensive back Darwin Cook was waived.

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2014/...bowl-last-year/

Yep, as stated it's #6. Had to put the video in full screen to see it.

What a fantastic adjustment made by Gary there. Good stuff!

I always like to hear that our rookies are doing well enough to be pushing starters aside, but it also always makes me wonder just how bad we were at those spots that rookies half way through their first camp can push those veterans aside.

I think it is little coincidence that the rookies pushing to start are at positions that were our biggest weak spots, so it follows that we shouldn't get too excited about them "winning" the starting job until we actually see them play for real.

Per the team's official Facebook page... https://www.facebook.com/clevelandbrowns?fref=nf


The Browns signed TE Kyle Auffray, LB Keith Pough, WR Tim Smith and TE Martell Webb

Well, I will apologize for the sarcastic response.

You know, I don't think we see things very differently. I wasn't surprised either. The offense is lacking talent, experience, and is learning a new system. It's not surprising, it is just a concern and there are a lot of question marks.

Thanks for the articles. The Zac Jackson one seems to be the most objective. That surprises me because he used to be such a shill. Does he still work for the Browns?

Not a fan of Vic Carucci (who was bad even before he started working for the team)?

I haven't read much of his writing, but the new guy [Kevin Jones] seems to be at least average.

(The Kevin Jones I am speaking of is not the ex-Virginia Tech running back.)

I don't care for Vic. Kevin is okay, but he works for the Browns and I think it comes across in some of his articles.

Thanks bro. I was wondering why he seemed more objective than before.

I think the articles by Carrucci and Jones reek of home town cooking. It's almost hard for me to take even their "factual" reports seriously. They always seem to write w/an angle. A bunch of us were bad-mouthing the offense recently, so what happens today.......positive offensive reports. Heck, they may have played very well, but it's to the point where I can't trust those guys to be objective.

This is in no way directed to you buddy.

Anybody who is drooling or bashing a player on what has happened in practice needs his head checked out to see if he has more than 10 percent of his brains cells left

Tom Reed @treed1919

OL Alex Parsons is down. Trainer working on right knee.
Tom Reed @treed1919

Alex Parsons carted off field. Hate to see that.

Sad to hear that. I hope the Alex Parsons project isn't over yet.

Kevin Jones is reporting that Phil Taylor is now with the first team lined up at defensive end next to Rubin, playing the NT.

Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot · 2m

#browns Manziel with starters in 11-on-11s, hits hawkins with 30-yarder on first pass. Hoyer with twos today. Switching days

j/c...

NFL Network and ESPN radio...both criticizing Pettine for being indecisive that he has to name a starter.

Of course they must of missed that part that he was going to have a competition and decide who the QB is by the 3rd preseason game...this was announced before training camp started.

Benjamin dropping a pass. doesn't mean anything...now if he's dropping a lot of passes. different story. Its one play...just like JM missing a WR doesn't judge him to be a bust. or anybody out there. Its the collective process of "PRACTICE" one thing I like is both our QBs JM n Hoyer are not known as practice players but perform on the field. I like that.

jmho

I'm sure he also criticized the Vikings for not naming their starter yet as well. . .

Manziel brings so much stupid attention.

They also harp on the fact that we took him in the first round and that a first round QB must start or be considered a bust!

Was there not a kid picked over all #3? Is he starting? Has he been named? I don't know...cause when I record I wait for Browns stuff (fast forward mostly) Then I get so disappointed in the reporting on the Browns. That I just fast fast forward to the end of the recording and that is it. As in if this is the Brown's info how am I to take any of the other stuff serious.

jmho

Oh they bring that up and say yeah...chuckle...but Hoyer is no Favre.

Again Eli didn't start. Kosar didn't start...but JM has to. In this era now of contracts not of the well I"m paying this guy 5th highest in the league so we got to start him.

Now they don't - they even came up with a NFL vocabulary of "BRIDGE QB" of this new Era...a QB who can start games/year/years while the talented rookie learns.

Bozo's they earn that name each and every year. I they might be surpassing it now a days.

Here's an article on the "start now" idea

http://www.footballperspective.com/are-first-round-quarterbacks-starting-earlier/

The graphs are about unreadable though

Quote:

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Are First Round Quarterbacks Starting Earlier?
by CHASE STUART on MAY 23, 2014
in DRAFT, QUARTERBACKS

Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, and Teddy Bridgewater were selected in the first round of the 2014 Draft. The Jaguars seem intent on giving Bortles a redshirt year, but it seems likely that the Browns and Vikings will hand their rookie quarterbacks the reins at some point early this fall.

From the first common draft in 1967, until 2013, there were 96 quarterbacks selected in the first round of the draft.1 Today’s post looked at how long it took each quarterback to start his first game. For each quarterback, I assumed 16 game seasons for all seasons where the quarterback sat on the bench. Two quarterbacks, Jim Kelly and Aaron Rodgers, sat three full seasons before starting in week 1 of their 4th year; that means both players get an estimated first start of game 49.2 Twenty-eight quarterbacks (29% of our sample) started their team’s first game in the year they were drafted; as a result, those quarterbacks get an estimated first start of game 1. The graph below shows how long it took each quarterback to start his first game; the X-axis represents draft year, and the Y-axis estimated number of games.



What stands out to me is how random the graph appears. For all the talk about how impatient NFL teams are now, such a “win now” strategy is hardly a new phenomenon. Only 20 of the 96 quarterbacks drafted in the first round during this 47-year period failed to start a game during their rookie seasons. And seven of those 20 quarterbacks were drafted in the last ten years: Jake Locker, Brady Quinn, Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Philip Rivers, J.P. Losman, and Carson Palmer. And of the 22 quarterbacks drafted in the first round from 1967 to 1979, just three didn’t start a game as rookies: Don Horn, Jerry Tagge, and Steve Pisarkiewicz.

Five quarterbacks were drafted in the first two rounds of 2012 and 2013; all five started in week 1 for their teams, the first time five straight first round quarterbacks were immediate starters. But in general, there is no crazy trend towards pushing young quarterbacks on to the field before they’re ready. To the extent that’s happening, well, it’s happened for at least five decades, if not longer.

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