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To be honest, if we play bad this year I see no reason why Savage should be fired, he is a great scouter and if this draft is as successful as I believe it will be, I don't understand how he could be fired.
Lets look at the talent drafted by Savage.
Edwards - The obvious choice at the time
Brodney Pool - Should start at safety this year.
Charlie Frye - Not sure yet.
Wimbley - Amazing pick
D'Qwell - Very solid pick
Travis Wilson - Held back by Crennel last year.
Leon Williams - HUGE steal.
Jerome Harrison - No idea yet.
Isaac Sowells - YTBD
Lawerence Vickers - Starting FB as of 2007.
Players starting that Savage has drafted
6 (7 if you count Leon)
7 of 22.
Give the man some more time, he uses our draft picks well and it's not his fault that his free agents get injured.
Also, I think if we fire Crennel, we should keep Savage and let that be known to the coach coming in.
Your thoughts?
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Well Winslow, sort of a negative topic  However, I agree with you 100%, IF we should play "not so well" then I say it will not be Phil's fault. Phil will do his part in bringing players to the team via FA and the draft. He's not the Coach and he can't make the plays on the field. All of that rests on RAC, Chud, Grantham, and the players shoulders. I think RAC will be the one to take the fall if another "not so good" season should happen.
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if anyone gets let go I think it'd be RAC... Savage has done very well IMO... only draft pick I'm not overly happy with is Edwards (still holding out hope he gets himself straightened out).
<><
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Don't understand your reasoning, but, I said I would stick with this guy til the end or at least til the his contract is up. He's the best GM we've had so far and he really inherited a mess here. Cleared up the cap problem, had a new HC, coaching staff and FO staff to organize.
No, I think Phil has earned at least a chance to finish his contract out and unless we bomb out really on this draft, I would like to see Lerner give him an extension or least start thinking about it. We have to stay with continuity, good years and lean years. JMHO
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I think Savage has done a tremendous job with our drafting and our Draft day is no longer a joke as it was with Butch, and the picks he has picked have helped the team alot, which pinpoints the reason why the draft is so important. I think if we draft Quinn, we're just asking for this to be a 50/50 chance he'll turn out what he's supposed to. We shouldn't start him right away, like Couch, he'd be lost, without a clue, nervous as hell, and getting killed by the huge defenders in the AFC North......
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Three years into a rebuilding project of monumental proportions and if anyone gets fired, it should NOT be Savage or RAC....
At the end of the third year, the first years draft picks should just then be getting good.
This the year we should begin to see glimmers of hope and some find performances. Guys like Winslow, Edwards, Frye, Lewis, Wimbley, Jackson, Pool, Jones and Bodden need to perform better than they have in the past.
This is the year to see some forward movement. Signs of life so to speak...
but that's JMO!
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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he shouldn't be nor will he be fired. To think otherwise would be ridiculous in my opinion if for no other reason than organizations just do not change GM's like they change coaches... it just doesn't happen.
Anyone who thinks (or hopes) that Savage will be gone... give yourself a bit of a reality check, it ain't happenin.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I made the thread because I think it will happen if Crennel goes, and I really hope it doesn't happen.
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I have to agree with PPE, GM's tend to hang on to their jobs a bit more than coaches do. So if anyone goes after the 2007 season it will likely be RAC.
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I hope for once nobody goes. I think Phil is doing a great job, drafting, FA, and contracts seem good. We are good with the cap for now.
I also would go as far as saying I doubt that RAC will go either. I mean if he totally looses the team sure, but I hope he doesn't. If we finish 7-9 or so I think he'll keep his job as he should.
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Don't forget I'm predicting we finish as AFC North Champs and then Super Bowl champs!!!
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I dont think RAC held back Wilson...
the guy held out, and plus he was behind on the depth charts...
neway though...
Savage nor Rac should go...
They get two more years to be a dominant threat... I think Rac will do enough to keep his coaching job this year...
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No GM should be fired before Matt Millen.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Savage has gotten the BPA. Its just they have panned out the way weve hoped. I think RAC is done unless he is 8-8 or 7-9. If he makes the playoffs that buys him 2 years....
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I think Crennel held him back because of the hold out, and you cannot tell me anyone could have played receiver worse than Dennis Northcutt did last year.
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me personally.. yea.. i would put Wilson in there in a heartbeat.. lol.. but ffair is fair.. Northcutt earned all the PT he got... he's a vet..
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if we fire savage i will hate the browns
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Quote:
Edwards - The obvious choice at the time
He most certainly was not. I wanted us to draft him, and still think the pick could work out well for us...but he was hardly the 'obvious' choice.
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Brodney Pool - Should start at safety this year.
god, I hope not.
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Travis Wilson - Held back by Crennel last year.
How do you know this? What proof? Could you refute the statement that the kid simply wasn't ready for the game?
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Jerome Harrison - No idea yet.
Small, fast back who cannot block worth a damn.
I think Savage is making strides with his drafts...he still has some ridiculous head-scratchers that no one can figure out...but his job is safe for now.
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in my opinion, savage needs at least 5 years to have this team where they want to be...
but if the opportunity comes up, where a guy like bill cowher can come aboard, you take that chance... he's a great coach, still young, and has proven that he can get the job done..
if that happened, i would hope phil and romeo would stay, i'd love to see romeo stick around and be the defensive coordinator, but things usually don't work out like that...
if bill cowher gets brought in, it's not because phil savage did a bad job, it's that bill cowher may be the better fit, or whoever they bring in...
i'm ok with phil savage though, i think he's done a pretty good job, the drafts haven't looked spectacular, but drafts do take time to really judge, in free agency he has done an unbelievable job...
this whole thing just really makes us all see how horrible of a job the previous regime was.. i know that the front seven had to be stripped, but that offense was left in absolute shambles...
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Savage shouldn't be going anywhere. Our FA pick ups have increased 2 fold since he's been here, and we've landed big name ones on top of it. The guy loves the draft and has had great success in the past.
What would someone else really do better? If talent is coming in, the coaching needs to change. I do like Romeo. The defense has been decent to good at times with all the injuries we've had. Offensively, we've had nothing. Carthon is gone, and hopefully things will open up this season with a new OC in Chud, a revamped line and developing talent.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
Savage shouldn't be going anywhere. Our FA pick ups have increased 2 fold since he's been here, and we've landed big name ones on top of it. The guy loves the draft and has had great success in the past.
What would someone else really do better? If talent is coming in, the coaching needs to change. I do like Romeo. The defense has been decent to good at times with all the injuries we've had. Offensively, we've had nothing. Carthon is gone, and hopefully things will open up this season with a new OC in Chud, a revamped line and developing talent.
you would pass up the chance at cowher?
i like phil as well, but i think randy lerner would take cowher if he could...
i don't know how i feel about him running the whole show, but i think it'd be a great move, coming from a year off, refreshed, and ready to work again...
i have no problems with phil and romeo... i don't think romeo is head coaching material, i think he's best served just worrying about the defense, but i'm ok with him here, considering the fact that we aren't really close to contending...
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Ok...
Who should we have play safety opposite jones...
Who else should we have picked at the time with Green/Suggs on the roster competing for a job and I believe we had traded for Droughns before the draft (I cannot remember) and our only receiver was an unproven Antonio Bryant.
My proof that Crennel held him back is that he didn't hardly get any snaps when Northcutt got plenty and dropped plenty of passes, Wilson could have played over Northcutt easily IMO and Northcutt should not have been playing at all at wide receiver after the Pittsburgh game.
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again.. Cutt was the Vet, along with Jurevicious...
tell me how many times you've seen the Browns play 4 WR sets?? and u can't forget that Cribbs is fighting for his PT as well... they all had the leg up on Wilson..
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Yeah I understand what you are saying and I am disagreeing with the logic behind it.
Just because Northcutt is a vet doesn't mean squat to me if he's dropping everything thrown his way.
I personally saw a bit of Wilson in TC and was anxious to see him play eventually on sunday's and he really never got a fair chance.
Cribbs isn't a very good WR we all have seen that with his limited action, I wanted to see Travis Wilson last year and was disappointed that he got no PT and I believe he would have been much better than Northcutt.
Just my take on things.
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Quote:
you would pass up the chance at cowher?
To each his own, but...
For the dawg gone life of me I can't understand why any Browns fan would want the "Steeler's Coach" to come to the Browns.
He is one great coach and a good character person. I'll give you that. But he has been and will always be known as "the Steelers Coach". Everything about him reeks of the Steelers.
Even if he came here and we won a superbowl as a result, we'd not be able to enjoy it fully as Browns fans because there would be constant "Steelers" references throughout the whole ordeal. During the season, throughout the playoffs and all through the superbowl game the media would be bringing up the Steelers and what a great job Cowher did winning a superbowl with them (first) and now with us (second). We would always be second. He did coach there first.
We couldn't play a freaking game without mention of the Steelers!
Our success would forever be tied to the Steelers and their coach. Personally, I would hate that in every fiber of my being.
When the Browns win the superbowl I want the Browns to win the superbowl.
Any reference to the Steelers within that should only be that we kicked their ass to get there.
Last edited by Referee6; 04/25/07 11:18 PM.
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Quote:
he shouldn't be nor will he be fired. To think otherwise would be ridiculous in my opinion if for no other reason than organizations just do not change GM's like they change coaches... it just doesn't happen.
Anyone who thinks (or hopes) that Savage will be gone... give yourself a bit of a reality check, it ain't happenin.
Except you are talking about the Browns
Clark and Policy - 2 years
Botch - 3 years
Losing teams change coaches and GM's every 2 to 3 years.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
Who should we have play safety opposite jones...
Brian Russell. 
I don't quite understand why we let him walk away at this current juncture.
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Who else should we have picked at the time with Green/Suggs on the roster competing for a job and I believe we had traded for Droughns before the draft (I cannot remember) and our only receiver was an unproven Antonio Bryant.
Jamaal Brown was an option. Aaron Rodgers was an option. Derrick Johnson, Merriman, Ware, and yes, even Cadillac...this team was so full of holes at that time that any one of these guys could be justified as easily as Edwards. It certainly wasn't a 'no brainer'.
Edwards was the best offense prospect in a very crappy draft class. I wanted him. I'm glad we took him. But what I envisioned was a commitment to the lines afterwards. Anyway, my point was that the pick certainly can't be written off as a no brainer. It was a skill pick taken when our team wasn't ready to harness one. A move I'm willing to live with, but not a no brainer.
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Cowher as a GM?????
You'd dump a guy who's proven to be a scouting and draft guru for a guy who's a proven coach? Cowher as a coach, yes. GM? Am I misunderstanding you?
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
Jamaal Brown was an option. Aaron Rodgers was an option. Derrick Johnson, Merriman, Ware, and yes, even Cadillac...this team was so full of holes at that time that any one of these guys could be justified as easily as Edwards. It certainly wasn't a 'no brainer'.
Hindsight's 20-20 man. As you said, you wanted him. I wanted Rogers and he could be much worse bust as he's been injured and my buddy said he sucked in preseason games. Looking back on drafts is unfair to teams because i guarentee you most teams would also have certainly picked Braylon at number 3. Braylon looked fine his rookie season before that ACL injury anyway.
Hopefully Edwards picks it up this season baby
But saying DeMarcus Ware and Jamaal Brown were options is rediculous, lol. Nobody thought they were gonna be number 3 pick quality. Most people didn't think Brown had that much of a chance of being a decent LT period. It was Alex Barron whom was considered the number 1 tackle by most
So yeah Cadillac at number 3 could have been an option as well as Rogers. But otherwise the other guys, they wouldn't have been picked number 3 by any teams. (Although there were some Merrimen pimps on this board, and also there were Derrik Johnson Pimps (whom i respected as i will say while he wouldn't have been my number 3 pick he was definitely number 4 on my board)
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Quote:
Quote:
you would pass up the chance at cowher?
To each his own, but...
For the dawg gone life of me I can't understand why any Browns fan would want the "Steeler's Coach" to come to the Browns.
He is one great coach and a good character person. I'll give you that. But he has been and will always be known as "the Steelers Coach". Everything about him reeks of the Steelers.
Even if he came here and we won a superbowl as a result, we'd not be able to enjoy it fully as Browns fans because there would be constant "Steelers" references throughout the whole ordeal. During the season, throughout the playoffs and all through the superbowl game the media would be bringing up the Steelers and what a great job Cowher did winning a superbowl with them (first) and now with us (second). We would always be second. He did coach there first.
We couldn't play a freaking game without mention of the Steelers!
Our success would forever be tied to the Steelers and their coach. Personally, I would hate that in every fiber of my being.
When the Browns win the superbowl I want the Browns to win the superbowl.
Any reference to the Steelers within that should only be that we kicked their ass to get there.
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Quote:
Quote:
you would pass up the chance at cowher?
To each his own, but...
For the dawg gone life of me I can't understand why any Browns fan would want the "Steeler's Coach" to come to the Browns.
He is one great coach and a good character person. I'll give you that. But he has been and will always be known as "the Steelers Coach". Everything about him reeks of the Steelers.
Even if he came here and we won a superbowl as a result, we'd not be able to enjoy it fully as Browns fans because there would be constant "Steelers" references throughout the whole ordeal. During the season, throughout the playoffs and all through the superbowl game the media would be bringing up the Steelers and what a great job Cowher did winning a superbowl with them (first) and now with us (second). We would always be second. He did coach there first.
We couldn't play a freaking game without mention of the Steelers!
Our success would forever be tied to the Steelers and their coach. Personally, I would hate that in every fiber of my being.
When the Browns win the superbowl I want the Browns to win the superbowl.
Any reference to the Steelers within that should only be that we kicked their ass to get there.
Solid man...SOLID...I'm still trying to get over Lewis being here...Ain't there yet...
The ONLY saving grace for me anyway with Cowher is the fact he started here...
SAVAGE...ANYONE...And that includes YOU VERS...That wants Savage gone after his 3rd year is a totally lacking individual when it comes to developing NFL talent...I include u VERS because u smack Savage every chance u get...
Mark this down as FACT...This football team will be drafting TOP FIVE every year if we continually change over the GM every 3 years...And the HC isn't too far behind that time frame...
U cannot change philosophy of an NFL team that quickly when the entire team was torn down and redone...IMO Savage is about as SAFE as ANYONE in the NFL...As well he should be because Like what he's done or not...He hasn't made ANY DISASTROUS DECISIONS...
These picks he's bringing in are maturing yearly...It is why a QB like Quinn will be a solid pick for this team...And sorry SOUP...A QB at 3 DOES NOT MEAN THE OL IS BEING NEGLECTED...
IMO Quinn will start day one in Cleveland...Coupled with the maturity of assembled players...Another FA period in 2008 and another Draft...Quinn will be ready to rock come 2008...
FIRING SAVAGE IS STUPID............At this point...
Go Browns!!!
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To be honest lets cross this bridge when we get or if we ever get to it,
The world is full of what if's that never come true,
Me I think the only way Savage is ever leaving Cleveland is after our Super Bowl winning season and he wants another challege of rebuilding.
If thats the case i'll tell him thanks and good luck
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Quote:
Your thoughts?
My thoughts are that you--and many others--already know that the Browns will be bad this year, but have already begun posturing. *L*
Allow me to summarize: You already know the team is probably going to be bad again because the talent level isn't very good. Yet, the blame will be given to Crennel, who is the coach of that "talent." And the guy who provides the talent will be given a pass.   
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
Lets look at the talent drafted by Savage.
Edwards - The obvious choice at the time
Brodney Pool - Should start at safety this year.
Charlie Frye - Not sure yet.
Wimbley - Amazing pick
D'Qwell - Very solid pick
Travis Wilson - Held back by Crennel last year.
Leon Williams - HUGE steal.
Jerome Harrison - No idea yet.
Isaac Sowells - YTBD
Lawerence Vickers - Starting FB as of 2007.
Ok now that we've seen your homerism list.........let's look at reality....
2005
Edwards.............horrible pick who has the talent, but not the attitude nor work ethic to ever warrant that pick. He's been a huge distraction in the locker room, and on the field he frequently runs the wrong route, becuase he STILL doesn't know the play book or seem to even care about it. He frequently drops catchable balls, and is more known for his sideline antics than what he's done on the field.
Poole.................I have hope for him, but we should be getting more from a 2nd round pick than what we've gotten so far.
Fry..................should be a solid backup once we get a starter, and in round 3 that's what your getting.
2006
Wimbley...............best pick in the 1st round the Browns have had since rebirth. Savage nailed this one
DQ....................Imo PS panicked when Ryans was gone and went with DQ....who doesn't fit our scheme at all, and is too light in the pants. We should have went with McNeil there. I do think DQ will be avg though so this wasn't a total waste.
Wilson.........I like this pick even most don't. We needed another WR to replace Cutt and eventually JJ, and he should be able to do that.
Conclusion...........there is no defending the Leon pick, becuase it has set the rebuilding process back from the very start of it. I hated on draft day for the very reasons that have played out..............bad hands and worst 'tude. The guys a loser, but we're stuck with him for at least another year or 2. However, Savage has hit on 2 starting LBs, a quality backup QB, and some later round finds like Vickers and Hamilton. Then we have guys with just the ???s right now..............Poole, Wilson etc. Now maybe they step up and are long term solutions or maybe they don't, but this year should be a telling point for them.
I don't think Phil should be fired either (or RAC for that matter), but this is a big draft for him, and if he screws this one up the writing is on the wall for him. He's had 1 good draft, and one not so good.............he needs to follow this one up with a good one or the "great talent evaluator" crap just don't stick.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
Jamaal Brown was an option. Aaron Rodgers was an option. Derrick Johnson, Merriman, Ware, and yes, even Cadillac...this team was so full of holes at that time that any one of these guys could be justified as easily as Edwards. It certainly wasn't a 'no brainer'.
Jamaal Brown was never considered, Aaron Rodgers, you saw him fall to 24? Apparently the Browns didn't consider him, all of the defensive players would have been huge reaches, Cadillac was the only one worthy of the choice besides Benson and Edwards, and it seemed like a no-brainer to me that if we weren't trading down that Edwards was the selection.
Hindsight is 20/20 but going up to the draft this seemed crystal clear to me.
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Quote:
Quote:
Lets look at the talent drafted by Savage.
Edwards - The obvious choice at the time
Brodney Pool - Should start at safety this year.
Charlie Frye - Not sure yet.
Wimbley - Amazing pick
D'Qwell - Very solid pick
Travis Wilson - Held back by Crennel last year.
Leon Williams - HUGE steal.
Jerome Harrison - No idea yet.
Isaac Sowells - YTBD
Lawerence Vickers - Starting FB as of 2007.
Ok now that we've seen your homerism list.........let's look at reality....
2005
Edwards.............horrible pick who has the talent, but not the attitude nor work ethic to ever warrant that pick.
DQ....................Imo PS panicked when Ryans was gone and went with DQ....who doesn't fit our scheme at all, and is too light in the pants. We should have went with McNeil there. I do think DQ will be avg though so this wasn't a total waste.
Conclusion...........there is no defending the Leon pick, becuase it has set the rebuilding process back from the very start of it. I hated on draft day for the very reasons that have played out..............bad hands and worst 'tude. The guys a loser, but we're stuck with him for at least another year or 2.
The Edwards pick was not bad, it was the clear choice at the time.
DQ was a fine selection, I wanted McNeil however.
The thing about Leon Williams, I don't even know how to put in to words how wrong you are about him.
PRO-BOWLER!
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Quote:
The thing about Leon Williams, I don't even know how to put in to words how wrong you are about him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he's referring to Braylon. That's why I hate people on here using the "Leon" name for him, even though we really do have a Leon (Leon Williams) now. It just gets too confusing sometimes.
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Dawg Talker
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OP
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Posts: 890 |
Quote:
Quote:
The thing about Leon Williams, I don't even know how to put in to words how wrong you are about him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he's referring to Braylon. That's why I hate people on here using the "Leon" name for him, even though we really do have a Leon (Leon Williams) now. It just gets too confusing sometimes.
Oh, that receiver from the commercials?
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Yep, the one from the Bud commercials
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Legend
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Legend
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Now you know what I hate using nick names for players,, his name is Braylon Edwards,,, we should maybe try using it instead of attempting to be a Jim Rome Clone and sound Cool! JMO,,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum If we play bad this year, why
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