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Charge: Obama plan to legalize millions of immigrants 'disastrous' to blacksBy Paul Bedard | August 6, 2014 | 4:36 pm President Obama’s much-rumored executive order granting legal status to potentially millions of illegal immigrants will be “disastrous” to African-American job seekers and a slap in the face to others proceeding through the tedious legal immigration process, charges a member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. Peter Kirsanow, a black commissioner on the eight-member panel, warned in a letter (below) to Obama this week that giving legal status to undocumented workers will pave the way for them to take the few jobs that blacks, especially African-American men, need. “I write to remind you of the disastrous effect of illegal immigration on the employment of all Americans, but particularly black Americans,” he wrote to Obama. “Any grant of legal status will serve as a magnet to prospective illegal immigrants and further depress employment opportunities and wages for African Americans. Given that the labor force participation rate is at an historic low, the unemployment rate is 6.2 percent, and there has been a precipitous decline in household wealth, the timing for such a grant of legal status could not be worse,” he wrote in the letter, provided to Secrets. Obama hasn’t formally decided what to do on immigration reform, but is planning some form of executive action after he returns from his extended vacation on Martha’s Vineyard Island in Massachusetts. There have been several reports that he will grant legal status or some form of amnesty to millions of illegals including the tens of thousands of youths streaming over the U.S.-Mexico border. Kirsanow, a Republican on the commission, cited past testimony about the impact opening the borders to new immigrants has on jobs for blacks. “Illegal immigration has a disparate impact on African American men because these men are disproportionately represented in the low-skilled labor force,” wrote Kirsanow. He added, “Granting legal status to millions of people who are in the United States illegally will continue to depress the wages and employment opportunities of African American men and teenagers. It also will depress the wages and employment opportunities of African Americans going forward.” And, he wrote, any sweeping executive order would be unfair to immigrants moving through the proper process to become Americans. “The proposed executive order is unfair to people who are attempting to immigrate legally,” he said. “Most of the illegal immigrants who would benefit from your executive order have no skills, so they lose nothing by coming here illegally. Yet your proposed executive order is unlikely to make the visa process less cumbersome for legal immigrants or alleviate visa backlogs,” he added.
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Maybe he's just another xenophobe.
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This article makes no sense. So how is this gonna be devastating on mainly blacks? What? Are blacks the only race picking cotton and fruit out in the fields now?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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This article makes no sense. So how is this gonna be devastating on mainly blacks? What? Are blacks the only race picking cotton and fruit out in the fields now?
It would be devastating to any low skilled worker.
That's capitalism, though. Cheap labor saves money.
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Quote:
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This article makes no sense. So how is this gonna be devastating on mainly blacks? What? Are blacks the only race picking cotton and fruit out in the fields now?
It would be devastating to any low skilled worker.
That's capitalism, though. Cheap labor saves money.
I agree with that.
That's why I can't make sense on why this would only effect blacks. We aren't the only ones in the low skilled labor force. Not even close. Plenty of other races are right there with us.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
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This article makes no sense. So how is this gonna be devastating on mainly blacks? What? Are blacks the only race picking cotton and fruit out in the fields now?
It would be devastating to any low skilled worker.
That's capitalism, though. Cheap labor saves money.
I agree with that.
That's why I can't make sense on why this would only effect blacks. We aren't the only ones in the low skilled labor force. Not even close. Plenty of other races are right there with us.
Affect, vs. effect.
But, you're right - it doesn't only affect the black race, it affects all races.
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Quote:
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This article makes no sense. So how is this gonna be devastating on mainly blacks? What? Are blacks the only race picking cotton and fruit out in the fields now?
It would be devastating to any low skilled worker.
That's capitalism, though. Cheap labor saves money.
I agree with that.
That's why I can't make sense on why this would only effect blacks. We aren't the only ones in the low skilled labor force. Not even close. Plenty of other races are right there with us.
Affect, vs. effect.
But, you're right - it doesn't only affect the black race, it affects all races.
I'm just reporting what a black member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights had to say.
His entire letter to Obama is linked to within the article. You should read it.
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~ Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
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This article makes no sense. So how is this gonna be devastating on mainly blacks? What? Are blacks the only race picking cotton and fruit out in the fields now?
It would be devastating to any low skilled worker.
That's capitalism, though. Cheap labor saves money.
I agree with that.
That's why I can't make sense on why this would only effect blacks. We aren't the only ones in the low skilled labor force. Not even close. Plenty of other races are right there with us.
Not really. A quick look at Median income would tell us that. Poverty is much more of a Hispanic/Black issue as these are the two groups that probably face the highest amount of systemic racism, especially when you consider it long term.
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Yep.
Even if there are similar raw numbers of White people in the unskilled labor force, there are far higher percentages of Black and Hispanic people, based on the size of those populations overall.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Not really. A quick look at Median income would tell us that. Poverty is much more of a Hispanic/Black issue as these are the two groups that probably face the highest amount of systemic racism, especially when you consider it long term.
Yes, we all know the whites are only going to hire the lighter brown people.
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~ Legend
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Quote:
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Not really. A quick look at Median income would tell us that. Poverty is much more of a Hispanic/Black issue as these are the two groups that probably face the highest amount of systemic racism, especially when you consider it long term.
Yes, we all know the whites are only going to hire the lighter brown people.
This comment really doesn't make sense as a reply.
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Quote:
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Not really. A quick look at Median income would tell us that. Poverty is much more of a Hispanic/Black issue as these are the two groups that probably face the highest amount of systemic racism, especially when you consider it long term.
Yes, we all know the whites are only going to hire the lighter brown people.
.
This comment really doesn't make sense as a reply.
Neither does your systemic racism crap
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You're right, my bad. Racism has never existed ever. Latin@s and African-Americans are just making less money because they're lazy. Thank you for opening my eyes, Erik.
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And you act like it's still 1860. And yes, 1860, not 1960. The majority of this country doesn't care about race anymore, but there will always be those like you who do.
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Stop and Frisk policy in NYC proves otherwise. (Note: This isn't a mechanism in the business world re: Stop and Frisk. Just making a point about systemic racism) Quote:
The majority of this country doesn't care about race anymore, but there will always be those like you who do.
The majority of the country cares. Just look at discussions about welfare, poverty, and the whole "givers vs takers" discussion; all of these closely link up with comments about race.
The part of the problem comes from enacting new policy. People, for whatever reason, feel like a label of racist falls on them when a new policy comes to the table on race.
Example: look at the Chief Wahoo debate. People cry out "you're calling me a racist for wanting to keep Wahoo!!!" That statement comes in fear of having the R word labeled on them.
Marijuana arrests, Stop and Frisk data, and jury service bias towards whites all show we have many issues to tackle.
We all need to work on ridding our nation of bankrupt race superiority garbage. Getting rid of that idea will make our country a much better place.
As for the topic at hand...I have honestly no idea. I completely understand that undocumented immigrants entered the country in a wrong way. At the same time I get that certain events, conditions, or other items prevented them from getting here by the rules. Sitting here and saying how easy it may be is one thing for us; living the life experience of an undocumented immigrant would give us the other picture.
Last edited by RocketOptimist; 08/07/14 12:29 AM.
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So why exactly do you think that Hispanics and African-Americans make a median income that's 10-20k lower than white people?
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Quote:
That's why I can't make sense on why this would only effect blacks.
To be fair, he said "all Americans especially blacks"...
Unemployment rates are always higher for those with less education and blacks are significantly more likely to drop out of high school and less likely to finish college.
Unemployment rates among blacks is already twice what it is for whites, which leads you to believe that if jobs open up and are taken by immigrants, it's going to have a greater impact on blacks.
Plus this guy represents blacks so that is the case he chose to make.
yebat' Putin
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I think it would be skewed if you factor those unemployed and actually looking for work. Think blacks are the only ones discrimanted against? Seriously? Trying being white and go into the welfare office. Every damn eye there is going wtf you there for. If your a white man going in chances are your gonna get put through the ringer and given less benefits. Lets talk about getting a minimum wage job. White man not on welfare already has 2 things against him. Since he is not a minority they are not encouraged to hire him. Plus they get kick backs from the government to hire people on welfare. God help you if you have any college because they are so scared you will take their job they wont even look at you. I was even told that by the hiring mangers myself from several places. You don't want to be an educated white man down on his luck cause you gotta move a mountain to work at McDonalds lol. 
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Think blacks are the only ones discrimanted against? Seriously? Trying being white and go into the welfare office. Every damn eye there is going wtf you there for. If your a white man going in chances are your gonna get put through the ringer and given less benefits.
You're haven't been here that long, but you are making a good showing on the dumbest things said on this board list, in a pretty short time.
You do know there are more white people on welfare than black people, right? The color of your skin plays zero role in the amount of benefits you get, its all done by a financial formula.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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And you act like it's still 1860. And yes, 1860, not 1960. The majority of this country doesn't care about race anymore, but there will always be those like you who do.
To people like CHS, race is the overriding factor for everything. That's why I have him and people like him on ignore.
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Quote:
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That's why I can't make sense on why this would only effect blacks.
To be fair, he said "all Americans especially blacks"...
Unemployment rates are always higher for those with less education and blacks are significantly more likely to drop out of high school and less likely to finish college.
Unemployment rates among blacks is already twice what it is for whites, which leads you to believe that if jobs open up and are taken by immigrants, it's going to have a greater impact on blacks.
Plus this guy represents blacks so that is the case he chose to make.
You realize that Swish doesn't care that the man used logic in his letter to Obama. He doesn't even care that the guy is black. The man is confronting Obama openly and therefore, nothing he says is of any value whatsoever. Nobody attacks Obama and gets away with it in Swish's world.
You should give up trying to convince Swish of anything. You can't make your words sound illogical enough for it to make sense to him.
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Quote:
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That's why I can't make sense on why this would only effect blacks.
To be fair, he said "all Americans especially blacks"...
Unemployment rates are always higher for those with less education and blacks are significantly more likely to drop out of high school and less likely to finish college.
Unemployment rates among blacks is already twice what it is for whites, which leads you to believe that if jobs open up and are taken by immigrants, it's going to have a greater impact on blacks.
Plus this guy represents blacks so that is the case he chose to make.
You realize that Swish doesn't care that the man used logic in his letter to Obama. He doesn't even care that the guy is black. The man is confronting Obama openly and therefore, nothing he says is of any value whatsoever. Nobody attacks Obama and gets away with it in Swish's world.
You should give up trying to convince Swish of anything. You can't make your words sound illogical enough for it to make sense to him.
Lol. Grow some balls. You got the nerve to attack me, but got me on ignore so nobody can hurt your feelings?
You're intolerant. Just like the majority if your party. You have people on ignore that will go to battle with you cause we don't agree.
I've been on record plenty of times stating Obama ain't the best or he isn't doing a great job. But you keep ignoring that. You're a joke.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
Quote:
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This article makes no sense. So how is this gonna be devastating on mainly blacks? What? Are blacks the only race picking cotton and fruit out in the fields now?
It would be devastating to any low skilled worker.
That's capitalism, though. Cheap labor saves money.
I agree with that.
That's why I can't make sense on why this would only effect blacks. We aren't the only ones in the low skilled labor force. Not even close. Plenty of other races are right there with us.
He mentions a couple times low skill positions and says
"Illegal immigration has a disparate impact on African American men because these men are disproportionately represented in the low-skilled labor force"
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Once again. That is true. But it still effects all Americans.
To me, as a black man, this article just seems like he trying to get the voters to vote another way come election time.
Sorry if I'm not making it a big deal like the rest of you and getting into the all too often race trap.
This is an American problem period. Each individual race when it comes to immigration comes secondary.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Agreed, it affects all, but what I think the author is pointing out that it will affect a certain demographic more than others, and possibly using that to appeal to Obama.
Or in a conspiracy theory, maybe he is trying to rile up the african-american population against Obama by pointing out how he is not doing anything to benefit them.
Essentially, I think he's focusing on race to garner more attention.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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jc
Personally I think this whole thing is BS. Most of the Mexican or Latino illegals take jobs doing the things "Americans" feel is below them... why? Because for the most part, they will do whatever it takes to make it here. You can bash them all you want for taking those jobs but personally I respect the work ethic.
AND WHILE I'M ON THE SUBJECT...
No Latino nor any other immigrant has taken as many jobs from Americans as George W. Bush and company did... If we want to deport somebody, well that crowd and the Tea Party get my vote.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Think blacks are the only ones discrimanted against? Seriously? Trying being white and go into the welfare office. Every damn eye there is going wtf you there for. If your a white man going in chances are your gonna get put through the ringer and given less benefits.
You're haven't been here that long, but you are making a good showing on the dumbest things said on this board list, in a pretty short time.
You do know there are more white people on welfare than black people, right? The color of your skin plays zero role in the amount of benefits you get, its all done by a financial formula.
KING
Wow, your just ignorant aren't you ...
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
Anything in the New York post is garbage.
Secondly, I'm speaking from personal experience and stating fact not opinion. There might be a formula but it's skewed horribly by the judgement calls of caseworkers. I was on food stamps for two years after a really bad accident. Family of four. I know 5 other families on welfare all the same size and all in the same housing area. Not a single one of them gets the same amount. I got paid less than all of them and one of them even had a full time job. So yes, I know EXACTLY what I am talking about.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Seriously? Your kidding right? Other American's wont do those jobs? For less than minimum wage probably right but since that's ILLEGAL.. sigh.
I'm no big fan of George Bush to say the least, but Bill Clinton's NAFTA did more to destroy jobs in the USA than any other single act in the last 100 years.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Quote:
Once again. That is true. But it still effects all Americans.
To me, as a black man, this article just seems like he trying to get the voters to vote another way come election time.
Sorry if I'm not making it a big deal like the rest of you and getting into the all too often race trap.
This is an American problem period. Each individual race when it comes to immigration comes secondary.
For July, the unemployment rate for Whites was 5.3%. For Asians, it was 5.3%. For Blacks, it was 11.4%. (seasonally adjusted) There is a problem. We owe it to those affected to find a solution. We cannot ignore which races are affected in order to be politically correct. Right now a higher percentage of Black citizens are having trouble finding work. There are many different reasons people can come up with, but the bottom line is that many in the poorer Black communities do not have the skills and education required to get the better jobs that are available today. We have the ability to help this situation, and for all people, not just Black people ...... but to ignore that a higher percentage of Black people are unemployed than other races, is to ignore reality, and to ignore reality is to make finding realistic solutions far more difficult.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So why exactly do you think that Hispanics and African-Americans make a median income that's 10-20k lower than white people?
In all honesty I think it's an attitude among many blacks that they are fighting against authority in the country. It's a type of self imposed segregation.
As I have stated before, I grew up living on military bases and going to mostly military populated schools. The biggest division between kids was officer/enlisted. Color never mattered. Kids competed for good grades, no matter color or status. When I was 10, my family moved to a more civilian area, and I experienced racism for the first time.
A majority of the black male kids acted as if they would be ostracized from the rest of their peers if they followed the rules. This lessened their chances of a good education, and therefore lessened their chances of better employment in the future. There was a minority of white males that acted in the same way. I have called this a 'culture of failure' in previous posts. These kids seemed to push the idea that not only was ignorance bliss, but it was cool and preferable too. I don't know if this attitude is a leftover from bad feelings from slavery, jim crow, or discrimination after the equal rights acts in the 60s.
I do know there are a couple facts that can't be ignored. First of all, racism and discrimination is far less of a factor in society than it used to be, and secondly, there are many people who still claim it's the overwhelming factor in society. I actually believe those that keep claiming that racism is the overwhelming factor are hurting more than helping. They push the idea that a certain race is a victim, and they can't help their situation due to systemic racism. This does nothing but create a race of victims that can never help themselves. I personally agree with MLK Jr. that people should be judged on their character, no matter their color.
I work in the tech industry, but I am not a business owner. I don't hire people directly, but I do have input on new hires. I have worked with many different colors and nationalities of people, and I have seen that race does not make a difference as to how far you can go in that type of business. Attitude, experience, and knowledge are the only limits for how far you can go. Some of the slickest engineers I have ever worked with were black, Mexican, Peruvian, Chinese, Indian, and white. The worst one I ever worked with was a white male who was more of a con man than an engineer.
I honestly believe that if more people adopted that attitude that they rely more on a person's character than their color, the world would be a much better place. For those of you that don't believe that, please read up on Ben Carson or Jason Riley.
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
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Quote:
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Once again. That is true. But it still effects all Americans.
To me, as a black man, this article just seems like he trying to get the voters to vote another way come election time.
Sorry if I'm not making it a big deal like the rest of you and getting into the all too often race trap.
This is an American problem period. Each individual race when it comes to immigration comes secondary.
For July, the unemployment rate for Whites was 5.3%. For Asians, it was 5.3%. For Blacks, it was 11.4%. (seasonally adjusted) There is a problem. We owe it to those affected to find a solution. We cannot ignore which races are affected in order to be politically correct. Right now a higher percentage of Black citizens are having trouble finding work. There are many different reasons people can come up with, but the bottom line is that many in the poorer Black communities do not have the skills and education required to get the better jobs that are available today. We have the ability to help this situation, and for all people, not just Black people ...... but to ignore that a higher percentage of Black people are unemployed than other races, is to ignore reality, and to ignore reality is to make finding realistic solutions far more difficult.
I was going to try my hardest to not get involved wih this thread, but holy crap YTown you know how to . me off.
How many times in the OTHER thread did you say it was people in poverty fault they are in the situation in the first place? All the examples on how you was raised and how you got out so others have no excuse?
Then you post this? So either you care, or you don't. Which is it? You say that we need to help them, but that is not what you were saying in the other thread.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
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So why exactly do you think that Hispanics and African-Americans make a median income that's 10-20k lower than white people?
In all honesty I think it's an attitude among many blacks that they are fighting against authority in the country. It's a type of self imposed segregation.
As I have stated before, I grew up living on military bases and going to mostly military populated schools. The biggest division between kids was officer/enlisted. Color never mattered. Kids competed for good grades, no matter color or status. When I was 10, my family moved to a more civilian area, and I experienced racism for the first time.
A majority of the black male kids acted as if they would be ostracized from the rest of their peers if they followed the rules. This lessened their chances of a good education, and therefore lessened their chances of better employment in the future. There was a minority of white males that acted in the same way. I have called this a 'culture of failure' in previous posts. These kids seemed to push the idea that not only was ignorance bliss, but it was cool and preferable too. I don't know if this attitude is a leftover from bad feelings from slavery, jim crow, or discrimination after the equal rights acts in the 60s.
I do know there are a couple facts that can't be ignored. First of all, racism and discrimination is far less of a factor in society than it used to be, and secondly, there are many people who still claim it's the overwhelming factor in society. I actually believe those that keep claiming that racism is the overwhelming factor are hurting more than helping. They push the idea that a certain race is a victim, and they can't help their situation due to systemic racism. This does nothing but create a race of victims that can never help themselves. I personally agree with MLK Jr. that people should be judged on their character, no matter their color.
I work in the tech industry, but I am not a business owner. I don't hire people directly, but I do have input on new hires. I have worked with many different colors and nationalities of people, and I have seen that race does not make a difference as to how far you can go in that type of business. Attitude, experience, and knowledge are the only limits for how far you can go. Some of the slickest engineers I have ever worked with were black, Mexican, Peruvian, Chinese, Indian, and white. The worst one I ever worked with was a white male who was more of a con man than an engineer.
I honestly believe that if more people adopted that attitude that they rely more on a person's character than their color, the world would be a much better place. For those of you that don't believe that, please read up on Ben Carson or Jason Riley.
What? So the majority of us did this to ourselves? Jesus....
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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, but the bottom line is that many in the poorer Black communities do not have the skills and education required to get the better jobs that are available today. .
LOL. Whoa buddy lets throw some facts in your opinions. There have been many studies that refute what your opinion states.
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Fielding a pair of black and a pair of white job applicants (in which one member of each pair was randomly assigned a criminal record), Pager found that a black applicant with no criminal background experiences job prospects similar to those of a white felon
Hardvard study
Another article of another study...
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White men with prison records receive far more offers for entry-level jobs in New York City than black men with identical records, and are offered jobs just as often - if not more so - than black men who have never been arrested, according to a new study by two Princeton professors.
NY Time
There was another study done by some Harvard professors (I think) that showed that blacks with no record were about 15% less likely then getting a job then white excons. If you want I can find the it for you.
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What? So the majority of us did this to ourselves? Jesus....
That depends on what you mean by 'us'. The majority of people that fail in life do it to themselves, no matter their color. There are always uncontrollable circumstances that hurt people in life. My point is, people that believe they are victims in life are due to be a victim all their life. One should strive to overcome the uncontrollable circumstances and improve themselves and their lot in life as best they can.
Succeeding in life is up to the individual, and it has individual standards. I will consider myself successful if I am able to convince my kids that they are responsible for their own lives, and they work hard to make them good. After that, I can hopefully spoil grandkids and eventually die before my money runs out or I become useless in the world.
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Legend
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jc
Personally I think this whole thing is BS. Most of the Mexican or Latino illegals take jobs doing the things "Americans" feel is below them... why? Because for the most part, they will do whatever it takes to make it here. You can bash them all you want for taking those jobs but personally I respect the work ethic.
Here you are totally wrong. It's a popular myth, but a myth none the less. I personally witnessed illegals taking away construction jobs from American citizens. Roofing, drywall, painting, carpentry and remodeling. All were jobs that Americans held and made a living wage from.
It all came down to the bottom line. The contractors who worked illegals were cheaper so the general contractor hired them. Most of the workers they replaced were white with families. Watch home remodeling shows and you can see what I mean. It wasn't that way 20 years ago.
So believe what you want to believe, but the facts I saw with my own eyes do not match up with anything you said.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Once again. That is true. But it still effects all Americans.
To me, as a black man, this article just seems like he trying to get the voters to vote another way come election time.
Sorry if I'm not making it a big deal like the rest of you and getting into the all too often race trap.
This is an American problem period. Each individual race when it comes to immigration comes secondary.
For July, the unemployment rate for Whites was 5.3%. For Asians, it was 5.3%. For Blacks, it was 11.4%. (seasonally adjusted) There is a problem. We owe it to those affected to find a solution. We cannot ignore which races are affected in order to be politically correct. Right now a higher percentage of Black citizens are having trouble finding work. There are many different reasons people can come up with, but the bottom line is that many in the poorer Black communities do not have the skills and education required to get the better jobs that are available today. We have the ability to help this situation, and for all people, not just Black people ...... but to ignore that a higher percentage of Black people are unemployed than other races, is to ignore reality, and to ignore reality is to make finding realistic solutions far more difficult.
I was going to try my hardest to not get involved wih this thread, but holy crap YTown you know how to . me off.
How many times in the OTHER thread did you say it was people in poverty fault they are in the situation in the first place? All the examples on how you was raised and how you got out so others have no excuse?
Then you post this? So either you care, or you don't. Which is it? You say that we need to help them, but that is not what you were saying in the other thread.
Yes, I do believe that many are in a cycle of poverty, where they use their efforts not to improve their lives, but rather to get by a little better.
That's not everyone though. There are a lot of people living in poverty who want a way out. The 2 positions are not mutually exclusive. Even those who choose to use the welfare system should have a path out. I have advocated that all along.
Every race, every group of people, has a group of takers who want to game the system, and another griup who desperately want out of the system, and yet others who know absolutely nothing except the system. Any solution we arrive at has to include all 3 groups. I have said, all along, that I want to do things such as to start including work as a requirement for benefits for all able bodied people who receive welfare benefits. We need a change in the mentality of some in the poorer parts of the country, and a change in how we treat them. Some need a hand ...... others need a boot. Some desperately want to improve their lot in life, and ae wiling to wok for it, and others want it handed to them. One size does not fit all, but doing nothing produces the same results nothing has already produced.
If you read my posts, you will see that I want to get people off the cycle of dependency, and to help them to become more than they are now. A community, city, state, and nation are better when all of its able bodied citizens are productive, and feel useful. That is what I want to accomplish. I don't want to continue to throw money into a system that currently does little except pay people off for staying poor, and out of the way.
As far as my stance on poverty, how many times have I said that we need to change the mindset of those in poverty, so they want to escape their situation? I did use myself as an example, and I think that is valid. My fanily fell into poverty, but we dd not stay there. We need to help poor people get that same kind of mindset, where they are dissatisfied with being takers, and desire above all else to earn for themselves, so they are in control of their lives completely.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I know there is most definately discrimination still going on in todays society. I don't think it's nearly as bad as 40 years ago. I know plenty of poor blacks and poor whites and there isn't much difference. Both feel like victems. In many case both probably have.
The problem that most black youth have is that they don't have many positive public role models. I say emphasis on "public" because there are many fine black role models. You just never hear about them and I think its a shame. We are who we wish to become. If the only thing you look up to is some hip hop artist imitating a gangster with low morals your going to have a high chance of doing something in a moment of crisis that might mess up your life. Throw in this generation's tolerance and excuse making for drug users and other things and these kids just get led astray from an early age.
Saddly since the media only likes to focus on the negative stories you don't get to hear about black people doing good things nearly as often. I think in my humble opinion this sets false expectations of failure by both black and whites. That leads to blacks being discriminated by all colors including blacks because its almost like they don't expect you to succeed so don't even try to make you better. It really pisses me off too when I see it.
In my book you are what you make yourself to be. Nothing anyone does to you or happens to you in life can change who and what you are unless you let it. But that is how I was raised because everyone in my family is ex military and that is just the mind set you have pounded into you. My father was a marine. There is no such thing as excuses. You won't fail because I am going to kick your ass until it gets done right. Then your going to do it better than anyone because your MY son. IMHO that is the difference. What your parents expect and make you accomplish is who you become.
If you expect you wont be treated fairly then you won't. If you don't think you can be successful then you won't.
I don't think its anyone one person's fault. I think it is a culture where there is system of failure by all involved. The only one's that to me that will ever change it though if for parents to not accept that culture of failure and force a change of perception. It's no small task and it will won't be fixed easily or quickly.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I know there is most definately discrimination still going on in todays society. I don't think it's nearly as bad as 40 years ago. I know plenty of poor blacks and poor whites and there isn't much difference. Both feel like victems. In many case both probably have.
Just for final clarification, I never said discrimination didn't exist, I said it's much better than it used to be. I've seen poor blacks with the 'culture of failure' attitude, I've seen poor whites with it too. I've also seen those that decide they are going to make something of themselves, and they succeed in life. The name of the game is to improve yourselves and be better off than your parents. All I really want in the world is equal opportunity to make it better for everyone. I am a believer in the 'a rising tide raises all boats' philosophy. If one strives to make themselves more attractive to a prospective employer, they will do well for themselves. That works for an employee or owner, as business owners always work for someone.
As for the rest of your post, bravo.
For my point of self segregation, I think people do that naturally. My paternal line came to this country from Germany in 1848, and lived in the north of Ohio. Most Germans were segregated into Germantowns, either by their own doing or due to discrimination. My grandfather stopped speaking German during WWI, and decided not to teach German to his kids during WWII. He did this so his kids would better integrate into society. The more we ignore race and integrate, the less discrimination there will be, but we all have to be willing.
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 im so sick of race threads...folks just need to put a cork in it already...I will not lower myself or my intelligence level by participating in such debates. If you want to improve your condition in life, you will get out there, bust your tail, be persistent, and make yourself make it...regardless of race...all the rich minoroties got rich by busting tail, just like the Asians did...just like the whites did...opportunity is there....its up to each of us regardless of race to take advantage of it....you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink. For the most part, our scale on the economic totem pole is largely up to us....it depends on how much your willing to sacrifice and invest...rich people get rich because they save money and invest....they would give up smartphones and nonsense for a 10 year bound with a 6% return on it....this is how many of them got rich...because they saved and invested...poor people are poor because we spend, spend, spend....80% of the economic spending is done by poor people...look at Black Friday...you don't see millionaires out...nope..they save and invest, and the poor spend. I would call myself "middle of the road" i save about 25-30% of my earnings every year....the rest goes in bills, taxes, and spending on useless nonsense...if i saved what i spend on useless nonsense and invested that money instead, i'd be better off financially....but not everyone has the disipline to save and invest like rich people do. Even if you look at Silicon Valley start ups...the founders invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in labor time (coding), and intial purchases to get the project off the ground enough to get investors to throw them money...so they are still investing money and time....see many Silicon Valley kickstarters over the years. Bottom line is, not everyone will be a millionaire, but not everyone needs to be poor either...its ultimately up to us on which side of that scale we are going to fall. My grandpa had a saying he used to tell me: "Everytime you point a finger at someone else, there are 3 fingers point right back at you" it is what it is. I can't make anyone want something, thats up to us to do that on our own.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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For the most part, our scale on the economic totem pole is largely up to us.
I know that's a feel good idea, and it does hold truth in some cases, but for the most part, one's scale on the economic totem pole is largely decided by where one started on the economic totem pole.
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