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Well, thus far, I watched up to the second field goal.
I said I was going to concentrate on the Oline, LB's and DB's.
Oline, I'm impressed overall but love Bitonio. I think we have a winner. They'll tighten up and be a pretty good line I think.
LB's, Thus far, haven't seen Kirksey but damn, what happened to Robertson. Did he just wake up LOL He played well. Didn't see much of Dansby. Didn't seem much of Kruger. Mingo had a sack but he also missed a tackle he needs to make.
Side note to other players:
Hoyer: he did nothing to make me think he can't be an NFL starter.
Gordon: Just as good as last year, sure hope he doesn't get suspended (wishful thinking)
Austin: Love the guy
Hawkins: as advertised
Tate: Needs to hang onto the ball but looked damn good
West: Thus far, nothing important.
Grey: I think we're going to fall in love with this, but he's gotta hang onto the ball
Too many drops and a couple of passes sailed high.
Key factor, and this isn't on Hoyer totally, but we need to score when we get down that close. And it's gotta be for 6 not 3.
On the very next play after the field goal, on the run back, THAT WAS A FUMBLE. Clear as day. Just a bad call.. Badamosi recovered the ball..
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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j/c
To say I was not impressed is a gross understatement. Our run D was putrid. Scary at best. The secondary which should be our strong suit played poorly. I saw one great hit by Whitner but otherwise nothing impressive.
I'll say it again that I believe we will have a huge problem at the WR position if we lose Gordon. Hoyer looked average. But considering it's his first game action since the knee surgery, I thought he did a pretty good job.
Manziel is a raw rookie. So I viewed it as such. The game certainly didn't look too big for him. He looked fairly poised. I did notice on a few plays that he simply didn't go through his progressions. It was "one read, then tuck and run". This is something he will have to work out. Overall, for his first time out, I saw things to be optimistic about. Actually more than I had expected. He didn't have much time in that pocket so I'm not sure if that was a true reflection of what he's capable of.
I didn't see a lot of polish anywhere. But with new coaches and systems, I really didn't expect to. West could be a good RB but it will take some refining for it to happen.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I firmly agree with your statement about our defense. Besides a few players who stood out (Robertson, Kirskey, the Bryants), I thought it was a poor display.
And has Desir ever played football before?
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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wow sorry Clem. That happened to me once last year and it put a damper on the entire weekend. Had friends over and everything.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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You guys need to move to Cleveland.
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get me a job and I'm there!
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Just clicking
Manziel is real.. But I'd really really like to see him with the first team Oline. He may just be the REAL DEAL.. Sure as hell hope so.
Kirksey: I think we are gonna like this kid a lot.
Desir: Boy I just don't know. Physical skills are there, just wonder, is the game too big for him.. Really early to make that kinda call however.
Who the heck is Marlon Mason. LOL Looked really good.
West began to look better.
Charles Johnson might just end up being something really good.
General opinion (meaningless)
This looks a lot like last years start. Meaning, I'm not impressed or unimpressed. We'll see.
Better QB play than last year, Better LB play than last year (at least 1st string)
Mistakes, Drops, Fumbles and penalties. Take away a few of those and at least ONE bad call and it's a better game for us. Lots to clean up.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
wow sorry Clem. That happened to me once last year and it put a damper on the entire weekend. Had friends over and everything.
Few things in life are more disappointing.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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My experience last night:
[NFL Network]: "We now send you out to First Energy Stadium... with Jim Donovan and Solomon Wilcots..."
[HARD CUT TO STADIUM FEED]
....and I see Robbie Gould teeing up the football for the opening kickoff of Bears/Eagles.
Maybe that was the problem.. they cut to First Energy Stadium and there wasn't anybody there. 
yebat' Putin
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sorry.... I misquoted her. Ford Field, Ford Field, Ford Field.... Nice catch there.... "Mr Hall Monitor".... 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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I was at the game, taped it and watched it again this morning. Almost everything, if not everything I saw has been covered so most of what I write will be redundant.
First of all, I left the game furious at the officiating. The "holding" call that was actually not "offensive pass interference" was the first indicator as to how this would go. The complete B.S call on the fumble where the ref said it couldn't be determined who recovered the ball almost made my head explode, (I said, "How about the guy who ran it into the end zone? Maybe he recovered it.") Then when I saw the replay this morning, where Bademosi clearly lands on the ball was just icing on the cake. And then all the ticky-tack "holding" calls on the DBs seemed nothing short of manipulation. At one point I said, "Obviously if their receivers miss a pass they throw a flag on us," which got a lot of laughs... from the Lions fans. I told Sherila, "They going to make certain that the Lions score on their final drive to win the game." And they did.
To the game. We looked overall mediocre, and so did the Lions. Basically it looked like a very early, somewhat shaky, 1st preseason game with a bunch of guys working with a new system
What I liked:
Hoyer finally settled down and started throwing some decent passes.
Manziel looked decent once he settled in, and had a great run.
Both QBs made a couple really nice throws right on the money.
The run game was relatively effective.
The 1st team O-line looked decent.
Marquise Grey looked good.
Taylor Gabriel showed up decently
Gordon made a couple nice catches, off good throws.
Austin made a nice catch.
Hawkins made a nice catch.
Kirksey looked good.
Armonty Bryant looked really good.
Mingo had a sack.
Craig Robertson showed up big time.
Tate looked decent.
Charles Johnson showed up and made a couple nice plays.
West flashed.
Baker flashed.
What I didn't like:
The officiating, the officials, and all the poor officiating by the officials. Manziel looked like he got hit late, (the ball clearly out of his hand,) and not a peep from the refs.
Hoyer looked like he was amped on adrenalin and overthrew a couple easy passes.
Manziel had a pass play to the FB right in front of him for a sure first down and chose to run for it instead, barely avoiding taking a hit and nearly not making it.
Austin should have pulled in the pass that went through his hands, which would have resulted in a first down inside the five.
It looked like Gordon had a TD go right though his hands... though his arm may have been yanked away.
Tate's fumble was Amatureville.
Desir looked terrible... hope he looks better next year.
We could not stop their runs going outside the tackle. We were gashed repeatedly and it was embarrassing to watch.
Lewis' fumble may have sealed the deal on his roster spot.
Tackling in general was very poor and tackling by the secondary was HORRENDOUS.
Pass pressure was mediocre at best, with only a couple hurries and ONE sack.
That's all I can think of right now. Overall, Hoyer didn't lose his spot playing with the ones, and Manziel didn't take it away playing with the twos, IMHO.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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For someone who really got talked about a lot during camp, Jacobbi McDaniel, didn't really step up as I would have expected.
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Johnny Manziel....
He did ok. His arm is getting better although its against 2nd strings. He is scaring the heck out of me scrambling with the ball. A good defensive guy will knock that ball out. He gotta secure it better. Also, running into people head first!?
He better learn quick!
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Quote:
For someone who really got talked about a lot during camp, Jacobbi McDaniel, didn't really step up as I would have expected.
I actually didn't even notice him once now that you mentioned it. I did think Armonty continued to show growth though
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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For someone who really got talked about a lot during camp, Jacobbi McDaniel, didn't really step up as I would have expected.
Between McDaniel and Snead, I was expecting at least one of them to show that they are a diamond in the rough from the reports we got.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Johnny Manziel....
He did ok. His arm is getting better although its against 2nd strings. He is scaring the heck out of me scrambling with the ball. A good defensive guy will knock that ball out. He gotta secure it better. Also, running into people head first!?
He better learn quick!
As a SEC follower, Manziel has HUGE hands and doesn't fumble. That is part of the reason why he was as successful as he was.
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Quote:
Quote:
For someone who really got talked about a lot during camp, Jacobbi McDaniel, didn't really step up as I would have expected.
Between McDaniel and Snead, I was expecting at least one of them to show that they are a diamond in the rough from the reports we got.
Yeah, Snead looked like he had bricks for hands. I didn't get it
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I think with the offensive pass interference, it was the right call, because the ball was behind the LOS.
However, that denied fumble recovery on a return is one of the worst calls I've ever seen. The subsequent explanation by the ref was somehow worse. Hopefully refs look at preseason game tape like the players.
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About the fumble....they ruled originally down by contact. We challenged. They then said it was a fumble but couldn't determine ball possession. They changed the call, so why did we still lose a time out?
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Exactly what I said as well. Okay, sure, they determined it WAS a fumble that we didn't recover ... but it still WAS a fumble
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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j/c
I finally got a chance to watch the game and either I'm confused on this no contact past 5yds rule or the refs screwed up. On Detroit's TD drive at the 2:14 mark in the 4th qtr the Lions line up at the 50 yd line with 2 WRs on one side lined up one behind the other the ball is snapped and the first WR runs by Browns CB K'waun Williams the second WR runs right at K'waun who is still in his stance between the Browns 45 and 46 yd lines, they both put their hands on each other but neither one impedes the other yet Williams gets flagged for holding. Solomon Wilcots goes on about not being allowed to touch the WRs past 5yds but it clearly wasn't past 5yds so can someone explain to me why Williams was flagged?
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
For someone who really got talked about a lot during camp, Jacobbi McDaniel, didn't really step up as I would have expected.
Between McDaniel and Snead, I was expecting at least one of them to show that they are a diamond in the rough from the reports we got.
Yeah, Snead looked like he had bricks for hands. I didn't get it
Sometimes a guy just gets nerves .... and then things snowball. It will be interesting to see how he recovers from here.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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About the fumble....they ruled originally down by contact. We challenged. They then said it was a fumble but couldn't determine ball possession. They changed the call, so why did we still lose a time out?
I had to laugh though ...... "We cannot determine possession" ..... well, look in the end zone where Bademosi is standing with the ball in hand! That'll show you who has possession! 
I still think that it should have been Browns ball, even if they didn't allow the ball to be advanced beyond the spot of the fumble. Barring that, as you said, it still should have been a successful challenge, because it was a fumble.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c
I finally got a chance to watch the game and either I'm confused on this no contact past 5yds rule or the refs screwed up. On Detroit's TD drive at the 2:14 mark in the 4th qtr the Lions line up at the 50 yd line with 2 WRs on one side lined up one behind the other the ball is snapped and the first WR runs by Browns CB K'waun Williams the second WR runs right at K'waun who is still in his stance between the Browns 45 and 46 yd lines, they both put their hands on each other but neither one impedes the other yet Williams gets flagged for holding. Solomon Wilcots goes on about not being allowed to touch the WRs past 5yds but it clearly wasn't past 5yds so can someone explain to me why Williams was flagged?
Yeah i wondered that also..then I realized I was listening to Wilcotts and expecting him to know what was going on... my bad. 
They called holding which can be anywhere, had nothing to do with illiegal contact or whatever they call it.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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All Pro
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About the fumble....they ruled originally down by contact. We challenged. They then said it was a fumble but couldn't determine ball possession. They changed the call, so why did we still lose a time out?
Good point.
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Quote:
Quote:
About the fumble....they ruled originally down by contact. We challenged. They then said it was a fumble but couldn't determine ball possession. They changed the call, so why did we still lose a time out?
I had to laugh though ...... "We cannot determine possession" ..... well, look in the end zone where Bademosi is standing with the ball in hand! That'll show you who has possession!
I still think that it should have been Browns ball, even if they didn't allow the ball to be advanced beyond the spot of the fumble. Barring that, as you said, it still should have been a successful challenge, because it was a fumble.
So is this a new rule? You have to see clear evidence (outside of a player holding the ball after the scrum) of how they got possession?
If this is true, it will effectively reduce fumbles to a rarity. There is a srum involved in virtually every fumble. There is rarely clear visual evidence of someone taking possession in a scrum.
So if I'm seeing this correctly, if a player coughs up the ball on a crowded goal line for everyone to see, a scrum ensues with players upon players in a pile, the other team emerges with ball once they sort out the pile but if there's no visual evidence of the player taking possession, the fumble didn't happen?
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Quote:
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About the fumble....they ruled originally down by contact. We challenged. They then said it was a fumble but couldn't determine ball possession. They changed the call, so why did we still lose a time out?
Good point.
even more frustrating was that it was as clear as can be that Badamosi recovered the fumble.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I understand that, but in this case the WR initiated the little bit of contact there was. They both put their hands on each other but nothing that would impede the other one.
#gmstrong
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So is this a new rule?
No just a stupid call.
Joe Thomas #73
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In my opinion, since they've been required to call the rule very closely, they are over-calling it in the preseason in an attempt to get it to sink in quickly. Because in the regular season the calls will be made more strictly than they have in the past.
They do this every time there is a new wrinkle. It will relax a bit once the regular season starts but will be tighter than it's been previously.
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Quote:
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About the fumble....they ruled originally down by contact. We challenged. They then said it was a fumble but couldn't determine ball possession. They changed the call, so why did we still lose a time out?
Good point.
We didn't gain possession, so for all intents and purposes, there was no fumble.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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In my opinion, since they've been required to call the rule very closely, they are over-calling it in the preseason in an attempt to get it to sink in quickly. Because in the regular season the calls will be made more strictly than they have in the past.
They do this every time there is a new wrinkle. It will relax a bit once the regular season starts but will be tighter than it's been previously.
Precisely. As a coach for basketball, a lot of times refs will have "points of interest" that will be highlighted during the offseason ... like they're trying to get it hammered into players' heads then
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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The problem I have with the call is that I believe they're supposed to err initially on the side of it being a turnover. That eliminates the worry about who recovered it. Then, every turnover is reviewed automatically, and it can be overturned if it's obvious that the guy was down or it was incomplete, etc.
So, the refs here should have said it was a fumble recovered by the Browns. Let the replay booth overturn it. Instead, they added in other factors that caused the bad call.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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We didn't gain possession, so for all intents and purposes, there was no fumble.
Bademosi had possession after the scrum. How is that not gaining possession?
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Quote:
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About the fumble....they ruled originally down by contact. We challenged. They then said it was a fumble but couldn't determine ball possession. They changed the call, so why did we still lose a time out?
Good point.
We didn't gain possession, so for all intents and purposes, there was no fumble.
It was pretty clear he fumbled. They just claimed they couldn't determine possession so the ball stays with the offense.
It's like when it's 3rd and 2, your runner gets stuffed close to the 1st down marker. They rule 4th down but the ball is placed a yard away from the 1st down. You challenge. After review they move the ball an inch short. It's still 4th down but they moved the spot of the ball so you don't lose the challenge.
In this case we challenged that the runner was not down prior to the ball coming out. We should have won that challenge even though we didn't win possession.
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We didn't gain possession, so for all intents and purposes, there was no fumble.
Bademosi had possession after the scrum. How is that not gaining possession?
Look dude, I am not going to ague with you....we didn't gain possession of the ball, thus the reason we were charged with a timeout.
I am not making any commentary that it was a good call....it is what it is....understand? 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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We didn't gain possession, so for all intents and purposes, there was no fumble.
Bademosi had possession after the scrum. How is that not gaining possession?
Look dude, I am not going to ague with you....we didn't gain possession of the ball, thus the reason we were charged with a timeout.
I am not making any commentary that it was a good call....it is what it is....understand?
Not sure why you're getting your little panties in a bunch.
You said we didn't have possession and I thought we did. So I was hoping to get your take on why it wasn't possession. No argument here. Understand?
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season Looking Back: Lions 13 - Browns
12 Postgame thoughts
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