DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season Looking Back: Lions 13 - Browns 12 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

The Good:

--I thought Manziel looked good. I liked his arm strength. I liked his ability to make plays. Wilcots bad mouthed him for running for that first down when Agnew was open, but when he broke open, there was a defender in Manziel's face. I also saw JM save the coaches when we didn't have the right personnel. He's a player.

--Hoyer got rid of the ball quickly once he found his groove.

---Robertson had a lot of nice plays on defense, both against the run and the pass.

--A. Bryant was the most explosive player on the field. And we got him in the 7th round.

--Gabriel or whatever his name was made a nice return and some good catches where he ran good routes.

--CJ made two nice plays.

--I've been down on Tate, but he is a one-cut runner, which is perfect for the ZBS, and he should be effective.

--Mingo had an explosive sack.

--#94 on defense impressed me w/his energy.

--Kitchen played very well. The announcers gave Hughes credit for a tackle that was actually all Kitchen.

--With that said, Hughes made two very good plays on other snaps.

--There was another backup LBer---his last name started w/a D...number in the 50s, he was an ILBer, who I thought was pretty good.

--Gray had a couple of nice gains.

--I liked the play calling and offense of Shanny. It's crisp, w/a lot of quick hitting plays.

--J. Gordon is such a freak athletically. He caught that WR screen and he just glided through the D.

--Baker ran hard.

--West had one good run, as did Lewis.

The Bad:

--Too many penalties that were unforced on offense.

--Phil Taylor was his usual out-of-shape self.

--I know Tank Carder has been hurt, but really?

--DeSir was freaking awful. He has size, but his hips are terrible.

--Who was number 49. Sheesh? He got sealed repeatedly.

--Mingo and Sheard both got sealed.

--Miles Austin dropping a really nice pass.

--Haden plays too laid-back sometimes. Drives me nuts. Play w/a sense of urgency.

--Tate fumbled yet again.

--Lewis fumbled. Might be done here.

--Gordon dropped a TD pass.

--Snead dropped two passes.

--There was another WR who totally pussed out on one of Manziel's throws.

--West was a little indecisive in the hole and he doesn't look like a difference maker to me.

--Schwartz got overpowered once again.

--Manziel should have handed it off on that 3rd and short when we ran the read/option.

--He also dove head first on one scramble. I think he hurt his neck, even though they didn't mention it on air.

--Hoyer looked nervous as heck before the game. All the JM attention was effecting him.

--Hoyer sailed two balls high.

--Hughes got sealed and Kruger went too far upfield.

The Ugly:

--The calls on McFadden. Are you freaking kidding me? That was good defense.

--The return coverage.

--The rotation of our corners. Poor evaluation of who is better by our coaching staff.

--The NFL w/another rule to make it harder for the defense and easier for the offense w/these illegal contact rules by defensive backs.

--The BS ruling on the fumble and recovery on the kick-off return by Detroit.

--Crowell didn't play. Dumb coaching decision.

--Some poor tackling by this wanna-be tough team.

---Sheesh, I forgot the Biggest Ugly. The second team OL stinks. They did not open up holes for the running game and they did not protect either JM or Thigpin.

yeah one thing i thought too..for all this talk about them going to be a rough tough punch them in the mouth team...they were weak across the board.

Was at the game. Browns need to do better on kick coverage. They also need to hang on to the ball. Had a nice drive going and then fumbled resulting in no points. Too many stalled drives resulting in FGs.

JM has big play potential written all over him. I want to see him with the first team offense.

The good:

Not sure how baker ended up 3rd or 4th on the chart, but he had nice runs.

Hoyer had some really nice throws that should've been caught

Gordon is unstoppable.

Robertson was all over the field today.

Our overall DL depth

Lb kirksey or whatever his name is did good out there.

Gray is definitely gonna be a weapon. All over the field today.

Manziel looked decent.

We actually have RBs.

The bad:

Haden was getting beat.

Our LB kept getting sealed up

Lewis fumble

Second string OL

The ugly:

Desir. Man... Ugh.

Those PI's on McFadden. Joke calls. Good defense.

The non fumble recovery bademosi had. Crap call

Tank carder, Krause and dion Lewis. Pack your bags please.

Good post.

I remember a poster recently saying that Pettine would not settle for FG's. Well, how did that work out? And it was a freaking preseason game.

Good points about the fumbles and kick coverage.

Yeah, I wanna see JM w/the first string OL too.

You know, in past years, most posters say that the second string qb played better because he was playing against the 2's. I have always thought the opposite. The second string defense is way better than the second string offense. Playing w/the 2's against the 2's is a negative, not a positive.

I forgot to mention Kirskey. I didn't like that draft pick, but he showed some skills.

I'll tell you what bro. If that's a sign of things to come, Solomon Wilcox hit it right on the head: I'm not sure how these DBS are suppose to play defense this year. That was ridiculous.

I forgot one other ugly:

The Browns found a way to lose yet again. I know guys, it is just preseason and we have never lost regular season games in a similar fashion, right?

Man, I hate that rule. It wasn't just our game, either.

I was watching the Denver/Seattle game and it was ridiculous. It totally killed the flow of the game.

I couldn't believe the calls against McFadden tonight. He had great coverage. I was getting mad earlier because the coaching staff would not put him in there. He makes a great tackle on the kickoff. He then gets beat on a quick slant. He then plays great defense and gets 3 calls against him. He is not this regime's guy................they will cut him......and he will go somewhere else and be a very good player. Freaking sucks!

The Good:
Johnny is just getting his feet wet. No way he can stay on the bench. He is the real deal and a game changer with his escapability.
Who was that FB who caught a couple of nifty passes for BIG yardage? He looked really good.
The starting D looked decent.
Cundiff looked good.

The Bad:
Kickoff coverage needs help STAT.
Praise Josh Gordon all you want, but HE'S HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GONE!!! Notta gonna beya heraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....Geesh.......
The second string OL were turnstiles...............

Marquis Gray was the TE. I think he was a QB at Minnesota. Big boy.

Yeah, good point about Cundiff. It's amazing we got that guy.

Limited attention due to simultaneous family stuff. Missed first 10 mins and most of second half.

The Good - football is back.

JF looking like he belonged on the field. A long way to go, temper expectations but there is serious potential.

No injuries I think.

The Bad - some fans wanting to can the season based on this performance/result. I mean, get a grip.

Desir. Ouch.

The Ugly - social media exploding in smugness when JF went 3 and out. A lot of folks want this guy to fail. Oh well. Us v's the World. What else is new......


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A lot of football both in practice games and Berea before we go live on this install. Still optimistic as I am always at this time of year.

Go Browns!

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Oh well. Us v's the World.

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Just the way I like it.

Let's go kick their butts.

I think they are going to use Gray mostly at FB.

I personally like Agnew there because he is squat and I feel he will be a better run blocker, but Gray's pass catching ability is important, too. Hard call to make.

I hear you. Thanks, Dawg.

The Good -

Kirksey wore Eric Ebron like a blanket. Maybe he should ahow some of the Browns back up corners how to cover.

Left side of the first team OLine - Opened some decent creases for Tate on the running game.

Marquis Grey had 1 drop but overall showed some big play ability. On this team if Gordon is out it will be needed.

Andrew Hawkins will make some plays this year. I do not see him as a legit outside reciever but in the slot he will be dangerous. Big upgrade from Devone Bess.

Johnny Manziel displayed some positive QB traits like better arm strength and accuracy than I was expecting. More importantly his play improved with each series showing the ability to process information. Something Weeden never displayed.

Barkavious Mingo was disruptive in the backfield. There is no doubt in my mind that he is the teams best pass rusher.

Craig Robertson played really well in both the run and pass. Looks like the competing with Kirksey is bringing the best out in him.

The Bad -

Overall I was disapointed in the first team defensive play. I know they bent but did not break. But, from everything I was hearing and reading I was expecting a dominate performance that would stuff the run and get after the QB. I know it is the pre season and when they don't play vanilla it could look different but I did not see a over powering dominate unit tonight.

The right side of the first team OLine. They need to provide more push in the running game.

The kick and punt coverage teams.

Not getting Crowell in the game. I would have liked to see what he could do.

The Ugly -

Desir and McFadden. They will more than likely be the 4th and 5th corners on the team and they each have much to work on. Desir looked lost and gets turned around. McFadden made a nice play on the interception he was flagged on. I do not think that was a penalty. The other 2 he was using his hands way to much just like Skrine his rookie year.

The dropped passes. The Browns might as well kept Greg Little and Devone Bess if the recievers are going to drop passes like that all year.

The fumble by Lewis.

The NFL replay booth.

The new defensive holding rule change.

A new category - (The Sad)

Seeing again how great of a player Josh Gordon is and knowing that more than likely he will be suspended for 4- 8 or 16 games. Without his presence I am afraid each game the Browns play will be like they are taking a knife to a gun fight.

- I think Tate, West, and Baker all showed signs of life. Hard to rate a running back behind anybody except our #1 OL.

- Kirksey, Robertson, Mingo looked good.

- Whitner looked like the only guy that really wants to hit anybody hard, hope that rubs off on others. I believe this team will grow to be tough but you can't change that in 2 weeks of talking about it when the only people you get to hit are on your own team.

- The play calling looked good, conservative but thats to be expected. Not crazy about the read option on 3rd or 4th and 1 when the defense is collapsing the LOS from all sides.. line up and get a yard.

- Hoyer and Manziel looked rather similar and both looked decent.. Whatever you thought going in, I'm not sure either did anything to change your mind. I guess the biggest positive is that Manziel looked under control and Hoyer looked like he is over his injury not really thinking about it.

- Desir and Sneed didn't help themselves. If you really think Desir has the tools just needs to play against talent greater than that which he saw at Linwood College, then he seems like a practice squad project.

- I noticed Bitonio blocking on the second level a few times, driving LBers back, that was good to see. Though I can't say I watched him enough to have an opinion of his game overall. He was part of the OL that kept Hoyer clean.

- Kick coverage was horrible.. needs to be a point of emphasis.

- Haden looked like he was disappointed that Calvin wasn't playing so he wasn't interested.

- Overall pleased that there didn't seem to be any injuries for either team.

- Those penalties at the end were ridiculous.. I could see where according to the new rules they were probably legit but good Lord, let them play defense... How long until we just have a halo rule where you can't get within 3 feet of a WR until after he catches the ball?

I remain cautiously optimistic.. I saw some good things

This lions team is a pretty dirty team, I thought they got away with several illegal blocks on our DL in the first quarter.

Austin's drop was ridiculous. the one receiver that was hit in the leg while he was watching the defender still 5 yards away, they should have his locker empty when the plane lands. Snead looks to be a camp cupid who will have fun playing for the BC Lions.

Gabriel was awesome. I would love to keep Gray and Agnew. Lewis and Tate fumbling for no reason other than being lazy with the ball.

Hoyer came out really slow and played very well when he warmed up. good throw in the back of the endzone but a fantastic defensive play cost him a TD. Johny played really well in my opinion and just brings an excitement to the game. He like Hoyer was brutalized with drops.

specials teams was really bad. I know most of the guys playing wont be here in 2 weeks but still I had sloppy ST play when these are guys trying to earn a spot.

Armonty Bryant could be a perennial 15 sack guy. HIs first step is elite.

I thought the D other than a couple guys like Robertson was just really flat out there.

Good post other than the Haden comment. I mean..............really?

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Armonty Bryant could be a perennial 15 sack guy. HIs first step is elite.

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That is a bold statement, bro..............but, I thought he was the most impressive player on the field tonight.

Well ... let's see.

I wanted to see how Manziel would play tonight, in his 1st NFL action. I thought that he did OK. His OL did him 0 favors on several occasions, and he had a couple of passes dropped. I thought that there were a cuple of plays where he ran when he could have thrown, but that's part of what we'll get with Manziel, especially early on in his NFL career.

I thought that Hoyer played a really nice game. The ball came out much quicker than it did with Manziel. Hoyer was either really good with his passes, or really bad. He had 2 bad deep throws, and a bad throw to Austin at his feet, but the rest of his passes were spot on. His receivers were either good, or really bad. There were 2 or 3 drops of Hoyer's passes. That was disappointing. I am not sure how to classify Gordon's non catch for the TD, because it did look like the DB was in great position to drag his arm off the ball.

Overall, for the 2 QB I am sure will be on the roster come opening day, I was satisfied with their performances. I don't think that the status quo changed at all based on this game.

I also wanted to see how our RBs looked. Both thought that Tate looked really, really good, and both he and West had a couple of plays that made me just say "Wow!". I think that we're in good shape here. I do think the Lewis may have cost himself a job tonight, You cannot put the ball on the ground.

I missed the 4th quarter. Did Obi play at all? No stats is not a good sign for him.

I wanted to see who stepped up at WR. Well, I was definitely disappointed with the drops. Big time. It does look like maybe Gabriel and Johnson may have helped themselves today. I liked the explosiveness that Moore kid showed on his KO return. He's a little bit bigger receiver, so maybe he might be a better option on KO returns?

Only 1 short catch fr our TEs. Did Barnidge play tonight? I do like the way we used Gray. man, 2 catches for 51 yards for the freakin' FB? Love that! However, he also had a drop IICR. The good and the bad continues.

Oh, and I thought that the non-fumble ruling was utter BS. They could tell that the ball was fumbled, but couldn't tell who recovered the ball? Really? Try looking at who has it in the end zone! Geesh. Really? That is such a typical (against the) Browns ruling. I hope that's the last one of those this year.

I also wanted to see how Kirksey looked ay ILB. Outside of getting sealed down once, I thought that he looked really, really good. The kid can cover down the field. Robertson had a nice game overall, (though I wasn't as enthused as the announcers were about his coverage where he ran out and threw his arms up in the air, and watched the receiver drop the pass) Overall, I was impressed with Kirksey. I think that he can help the defense.

I have the Steelers/Giants game on, and all of a sudden I don't feel as bad about our run defense watching the Steelers give up a 73 yard run right through the heart of their defense.

I didn't get to see Crowley, Baker, or this Auffray kid. I was a little disappointed in that.

You mentioned Bryant, and I agree. He has explosive explosiveness on top of explosion in his step. He will be a starter for us in a year or so.

I love Hughes and Kitchen as depth. Man, what a luxury.

I thought that Desir showed ..... nerves? Man, he really looks like he needs work. He had a really and truly bad outing. Hopefully he learns from that.

I didn;t see what happened with McFadden. If it was a bad call, it seems like he gets those for some reason. He had that utter BS DPI call against New England that cost us the game against them last year. Oh well, that got us the #4 pick, which got us Gabriel and a 1st next year. It's rare when a bad call helps us that much.

94 was Jamaal Westerman. I have no idea who he is, or what he did to deserve as much playing time as he got. I did like what I saw of Diles. I think that he could wind up taking a backup LB spot.

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I only saw him on special teams. He made a TD saving tackle on a return.

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Did Barnidge play tonight? I

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Yes, but later in the game and I don't think he was targeted.

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94 was Jamaal Westerman.

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I think Westerman was number 49. The 94 guy had a name that started w/a S.

49 was pretty bad for the most part. 94 impressed me w/his energy and quickness.

Okay.............no biggie.

94 was Justin Staples out of Illinois. He actually grew up in Berea I think they said.

Thanks. Yeah, that is the guy. I thought he played well. Loved his quickness.

I'm sorry ... dyslexia or something. 49 is Westerman. 94 is Justin Staples.

I thought so too. He seemed to be around the ball a lot, got his name called a lot. (for the right reasons)

No biggie..............as long as we get it right.

Manziel should have been 10-11 and hoyer should have been 9-14. I am very encouraged by both these guys. I also loved how West ran the ball and the offensive playcalling impressed the hell out of me. OL looked good but the concerns with the receivers came to life.

Good

- Robertson and Kirksey looked much better in coverage than last year's ILB

- Tate/West appear to have the making of a good combo

- Charles Johnson does exist!

- Gray looks like he has some potential to be a mismatch

- Bitonio held up very nicely

- Greco looks quicker/stronger

- Our DL is freaking DEEP. It's a shame some will be cut


Bad

- 2nd team OL. We have NO depth

- Joe Haden seemed disinterested

- Red Zone offense ... again

- Mingo in run support ... good lord is he bad


Ugly

- Officiating

- Leon McFadden

- Pierre Desir

I really didn't follow the offseason as close as I would have liked on account of working 7 days a week 10 hours, sometime 12, but something stood out to me as UGLY and I was wondering if any of you think I'm blowin' it out of proportion.

Granted, it was his first start, granted, you want to play to your teams' strength, however, whether first string or second string each unit should have an identity and you draft/groom players that FIT that identity,

With Hoyer in, it was a typical offense, with Manziel in, it got "college" for a lack of a better way of putting it. I wanted to see Manziel take snaps under center. To utilize him as some dual threat like RG3 scares me as to the health and longevity of Manziel.

It's like a tale of two offenses. When Manziel takes first team reps next week, what offense will we have?

I'm interested in hearing how this ugly or perceived ugly by me is a little prettier than I am making it out to be.

Overall from what I saw, it seems we are a more talented team than last year with some rough edges needing ironed out like tackling and catching the ball. I though Miles Austin SHOULD of came out with a spectacular side line catch by instead looked amateurish by not know the sideline.

And one last thing, I'm tired already of "Johnny Football." ESPN is gonna beat it to death like the did with Tebow, Favre. They latch on to the legs of a player and beat them down your throat.

I just don't see him playing the NFL game like he played the A&M game.

Good:

Hoyer looked good. He had some errant throws (high) but his decision making and processing are as quick and good as he lashed last year. People saying Manziel played as well as Hoyer???? I see it totally differently.

Manziel was accurate. Be really interesting to see if he gets a shot with the 1's next preseason because that will tell us a lot. Doubt he would need to scramble anywhere near as much.

Tate and West (and Baker) - all looked good. Again I think Tate looked the best. One cut, always looking to get North and South. Seemed to make the most of any crease in the D.

Bitinio - solid, solid, solid. Looked like a 6 year Vet. I was watching him more than Greco and Schwartz, but I don't remember any issues on the right side fo the OL with the 1's.

DL - 1's and the backups. Deep group.

Kirksey and Robertson - both impressive. Especially Kirksey covering Ebron like a blanket on the sidelines! Robertson much improved from last year. Hope that happens in every game he plays.

Dansby and Whitner - stepped in for DQ and Ward without missing a beat. Too early to tell, but it may well be an upgrade.

Returners all looked sharp and fast.

Bad:

Drops.
Missed tackles.
Defense getting gouged on the same run play over and over.
Probably having to cut one or both - Cromwell and Lewis.
Option Run with a porous OL is a recipe for disaster. Someone is gonna get killed and cough up the ball.
Did't see Hawkins do much. Miles Austin not much of a factor other than the drops. Hope they both bounce back Monday night.
On Special teams Coverage was woeful.

Agree with everything you wrote. You and I are the only ones who call it like we see it on Haden...I made a comment in the game day thread about him getting turned around by Ogletree and no one responded. In this thread everyone says he was disinterested. To me he played like he always does.

A couple comments about JM...

Damn does he look small. But his size never once was a factor. Did anyone else notice his bullet to Snead that got dropped? He created his own passing lane. It looked like the DL was right there to bat it down. He still managed to get it by him. I think he just has an uncanny feel for the position.