DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum College should only require 2.5 to 3 years for a Bachelor's Degree

I’ve been feeling this way for a long time now. In my experience of going for almost 5 years, I believe that you should only have to go for 2.5 to 3 year’s tops for most bachelor degrees. I come to this conclusions based on many factors.

1. Most of the jobs college grads get into after college don’t require 4-5 years of college. I graduated with a liberal arts degree. Nobody in their right mind can convince me you need 4-5 years of college to get into marketing, public relations, journalism, broadcasting, radio, political science, education, history, accounting, sales, insurance etc. Currently I’m in the business field, which is something I didn’t go to school for. Even though I didn’t have any background in business out college, I am doing very well with my job. I believe if you have average - above average intelligence you could pick up most of these jobs that require a college degree within a year.

2 To get down to 2.5 to 3 years for a bachelor’s degree would be simple. I would achieve this by eliminating the many prerequisites that have little to do with most majors. I remember I didn’t get into my major until my junior year. So really I only took a few years of classes that dealt with my major anyhow. I don’t mean to be harsh, but why in the hell did I have to take 2 classes of astronomy, 3 foreign language classes, art history, and all the other classes where I gained all of this useless knowledge. To be blunt I don’t care about the stars, the sun burning in 5 billion years or about the Parthenon . I would like to survey all the Spanish students I sat with for those 3 classes. I would bet you couldn’t find 15% of those students whom speak Spanish fluently. I never had an instance in my lifetime when I needed to speak Spanish, except for in those specific classes. If I wanted to move to Mexico, or Spain, I’m sure I could pick up the language in a year’s time. That’s where you learn a language, by being immersed in it. If students should have prereqs, you should only be required to take English, speech, psychology,human biology and poly sci. these are classes that you could get something out of and take with you everyday of your life. After that the rest of your classes will deal your major specifically.

2. To me elementary, junior high, and high school are far more important than college. If you were sent to good schools growing up, college should be a place where you polish your skills and get ready for your profession. I never understood why I had to take history classes that I took in high school. Don’t get me wrong, I love history, but I could look up any war, president, etc, on wilkipedia. I would have rathered learned about how to fix cars as a prereq. Again, it’s the every day knowledge that I’m looking for.

3. If the system was set up like the way I proposed, I believe it would be more efficient for students like myself that were cash strapped, and hungry to get into the workforce quickly. Instead of being 23 when I graduated, I would have been 20 or 21. You also have to look at the money angle. By reducing the years, students would save a ton in tuition and student loans. Whom wants to pay thousands in loans back for jobs that only start at 30-40k if you’re lucky. Especially when the jobs aren’t that complex and don’t require 4-5 years of college. What a crock. I remember on of my professors was debating why teachers need to get their masters to earn a decent living compared to those with bachelors. He stated what difference is there between a teacher with a 6-year degree compared to one with a 4 year.? He went on to say that it’s a way for the universities to make money. To be honest that’s my whole point here. While some professions require a lot of schooling, most of these professions kids are getting into don’t.Many of these universities have diluted the value of a degree becuase they have created so many damn majors. My buddy graduated with a human ecology degree. what the hell is a human ecology degree or an african american studies degree? what can you do with those? at any rate my friend is an underwriter for a major insurance company. again a grad that is doing something that they didn't go to school for. My other friend graduated with a history degree. he's now a police officer. he told me corporations look at a college degree as a sign of stability in one's life. well that's a steep price to pay to show you are a stable person.

It’s a damn shame corporations now a days are requiring 4 year degrees to get a decent paying job when you don’t need one to do the job. Like I have stated before if you have average-above average intelligence, with a desire to succeed, that should trump what’s on your resume. I’m all for education, but I think the system that is in place needs an overhaul.

Education has become a business. Schools almost try to keep students for 5 years in the way they schedule classes.

You got that right................and to think that you have to pay $120 a semester just to park your freaking vehicle............damn!

I'm going to disagree with your accounting example as not needing 4 years of school. Many colleges have even gone to a 5 year program for accounting; I'm not an accountant but at one time I thought I might like to be, luckily I figured out early on I was not cut out for that.

I'm in the IT field and I work with many, many people who do not have degrees. It is one of the few fields where experience can take place of a degree; I do have a 4 year degree (Business, Management Information Systems), but do not really use a single bit of information I learned as the IT industry changes too quickly; what I learned in '90-'94 is way out dated. To me, college was a time to mature - I was NOT ready for the workforce at 18, nor at 20. Some people are; college gave me the opportunity to mature and find a direction in life. Broadening my knowledge by classes unrelated to my major helps you become a more intelegent person in my opinion. If I just wanted IT, I would have gone to a 2 year tech school and been done.

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My buddy graduated with a human ecology degree. what the hell is a human ecology degree or an african american studies degree? what can you do with those? at any rate my friend is an underwriter for a major insurance company

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Why did he go for a degree you can't do anything with? Whose fault is that? It's HIS not the schools - obvioulsy he felt it was a good degree to get (at least I would hope). You also complain about your liberal arts degree - again, why did you get that degree if you knew you couldn't do anything with it?

And, as Peen said, they are a business and want you to stay as long as possible to get their cash.

http://www.newsnet5.com/education/13101878/detail.html

19-Year-Old To Graduate From College
Student Entered College As Junior

POSTED: 1:59 pm EDT April 25, 2007

BLOOMFIELD HILLS, Mich. -- A 19-year-old suburban Detroit resident is on track to graduate from the University of Michigan after just a year of study.

Nicole Matisse, of Bloomfield Hills, is to officially graduate in the summer with a bachelor's degree in psychology.

As a student at Lahser High School, Matisse had exhausted the curriculum by her junior year. Between the exams she passed on eight advanced placement courses and the eight classes she took at Oakland Community College, she had amassed enough credits to enter the university last fall as a junior.

"When I got to U-M, I only took 19 credits, and I was bored and craved more credits," she told The Detroit News for a Wednesday story. "So even when I took 27 credits this semester, I felt I could have added even more."

It's unclear whether any other students have done what Matisse will accomplish this year, but Donna Wessel Walker, assistant director of the honors program, said she's never seen it happen.

"She's taking in one semester the course load that most people take in two," Wessel Walker said. "She is one determined young lady."

Matisse's next step is to start as a first-year student at the Wayne State University law school in Detroit.
Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

I could have graduated in 3 years if I wanted to (with a double major) but since i was a runner I took a couple of crap classes to get one more year of running in.

I know several people who enter college with credit already and graduate in 2 or 3 years.... it can easily be done.

...What this article leaves out is the fact that this young woman most likely devoted her entire waking moments to her schoolwork/studying, with little or no social life. I'd be interested to see how her people and interpersonal communication are. My guess? She has the personality of a doorknob and would crumble if met with a crisis she couldn't rely on her studies to solve. But that's just my opinion.

Including a year at a community college (CCC), and a few failed/dropped courses which took me below the 12 credit threshold, I went 5 years, making it out with a whopping 2.4 GPA. Who the hell cares. I'll gaurentee I'm far more successful than many of the bookworms that graduated in the same studies as I did (I know because I've had the pleasure of interviewing a few for jobs) who had virtually no college life. I look back on my days in school, and instead of reminiscing of 20-30 page papers, countless hours in the library, study groups in the evenings...I remember stories of violating 14 out of BW's 15 offenses...in one night, drinkiing 17 beers within a two hour timeframe at happy hour, lighting a pitchers mound on fire and laughing at the baseball team cleaning it up the next morning, impromptu road trips to the ocean, Chicago, or Windsor. College is for living life and having fun. Yes, studies are important, but if your paying all that money, might as well have fun doing it.

It depends on the person. Some bookworms re pretty smart, others get good grades but don't have a clue. Likewise, those with bad grades know more than their grades show, others don't. When it comes down to it, I think an employer will value someone with a high gpa over someone who breaks 14 laws in 1 night.

As for the OP, I did 9 semesters in 3 years and got my degree. I wish I didn't. I would have learned alot more and had more fun than I did had I gone the 4-5 year route. Enjoy college for what it is, you have the rest of your life to be in the real world. After a couple years of the real world, I'm already bored with it.

While I agree that a liberal arts curriculum is 'useless' in terms of your actual major, you can complete the degree in 3 years if you bust tail. I contemplated that, but with everything else that comes with college, I wish I would have stuck around for 5!

Yeah they recommended I take 20 credit hours a semester to graduate on time. I am struggling with 16 right now. It's hard to do and work full-time. I have a double major (E-Business/ISYS) so I decided to take summer classes so I can stay at 16 next fall/spring and not get burned out.

It doesn't matter what the degree is in,,just get one.

I think the gen ed classes try to make you a well rounded individual. For example you would be amazed at some job applications I have read that looked like a 3rd grader filled out. English Comp classes. The math classes are usefull, except trig and calc. can go to hell Speaking 2 languages is usefull the way this country is heading. Taking a Psychology class is a good way to learn human behavior like customers. I am nervous giving speeches but I have to take a Interpersonal Communication class and I will benefit from that. I do have to take an arts class like music appreciation I really don't give a crap about and Geology which are useless but for the most part the gen ed classes are somewhat useful.

Here's something I don't understand....

When I started massage school none of the colleges offered Massage Therapy. Just as I was finishing up and getting my license, they began offering it. It's a two year associates degree at a local community college.

In the end, these graduates still have to pass the state medical board and become licensed just like I did. I'm not sure what advantage they have with the extra gen ed classes that I don't. We do the same job...get the same license. Makes no sense to me.

I inquired as to what I would need to do to get the "degree" part from the college. I would have to take all the gen ed classes (that I don't already have) and audit all of the massage classes at $125 a pop plus a long assed paper as to why I should be exempt from taking the class.

Screw that. If I go back to school, it certainly wouldn't be for something I feel I already have.

While your plan is probably doable.. I don't think it's for the best.. colleges have become incredibly specialized and, as you said, most people hate taking those classes outside their major and find them useless. What is wrong with being a well-rounded intelligent individual who can speak articulately on a variety of subjects? What's wrong with being an accountant who has read great literature or studied some basic science or taken music appreciation or world history? Why are we so intent on turning out specialists who are experts at ONE THING and clueless about everything else? All so we can get them into the work force at 21 instead of 22 or 23? I ask again, what is wrong with learning just to learn? Who knows that 19 year old kid might actually figure out that the law degree he thought he wanted from the age of 16 isn't really what turns him on any more....

Secondly, you are going to work "in the real world" for 35 years.. who really wants to rush into that a year or two earlier? High school and college are supposed to be fun too. It is supposed to be a transition away from mom and dad to self-reliance, it is supposed to be a time to learn about new things and explore and find out what it is you want to do with the next 35 years of your life... In my opinion, asking an 18 year old kid with little to no worldly work experience to pick a profession which he/she will enjoy doing for the next 35 years is where the joke lies. How many people end up doing what they thought they wanted to do when they were 18? A very small percentage... yet you would take those 18 year old kids and put them on a fast track to a career they know nothing about and give them even fewer options to change down the road because that would mean going all the way back to the beginning to start over....

Teach kids a broad base of knowledge, let them grow and learn and explore, let them have some fun.... the real world isn't going anywhere.

Trella, what you describe is what many, many countries have already gone to. And the system starts in high school where you pick a 'concentration' like Chem/Bio, Phys/Math or Lit. Then in college, you pick a degree and you start with those minimums, not the crappy prereqs you have to take here but the initials like for B-School, you'd start with your Econ, Acct and Mgmt classes first...not Art of Theatre, Philosophy and Spanish.

I was one who needed 6 years in school (undergrad and Masters) and still wasn't ready for the real world. And that is some of the justification for the 4-yr period.

But I think we lose a lot of people's interest because they start studying topics they have no interest in.

I agree with you and disagree with you...it seems that every 2-3 generations or so, education dips a level. What was a high school degree in my dad's day (born in 52) is now a college degree. By the time my kids are in school, you will need a Master's degree to equate what was my dad's high school diploma in the 60s. It keeps dipping.

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most people hate taking those classes outside their major and find them useless.

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Thats because most of them are useless. There are a few Gen Eds that are essential no what major you are such as English Comp, Speech, etc etc. Those are things we use every single day. But for instance, why do I NEED to know how granite was formed as a lighting designer? "Hmmm, due to Oregeny, if I install this equipment right here, 12 million years from now it will be on top of a small mountain. Uh oh, better find a new location!"

Another instance for me was Finite Math. Thats right, Finite Math (with no other alternative) was a Gen Ed requirement for me. I just completed a structural analysis class the previous semester that used complex trig problems etc etc....only to be followed up by Finite Math as a Gen Ed? Talk about a complete waste of time. I ended up only attending 4 classes and never touched the book. 1 class was the first day and the other 3 were test days. I ended up with a B+ due to the fact that obviously never did the homework. While I absolutely hate math, I would have much rather at least taken a trig class or something like that to only further understand my knowledge of that structural analysis class. But a trip to the registrars office left me with the same answer, I need to take Finite Math and only Finite Math.

Another cake walk class for me was those English Comp classes. The classes that I had inside of my major where much harder and thought provoking. While in my Gen Ed classes, I felt like I was back in middle school. It was shocking to see how many people have never even heard of MLA Format, let alone how to write a paper. I really wish Gen Eds could be taken on a case by case basis with approval from the chair of your department. If you've taken a class that is a lot more advanced than a gen ed, you should be able to replace that requirement with something that would be more usefull.

1. I have to disagree with you on the accounting one - I know plenty of CPAs that took their 4 years, some also got MBAs and still struggled with the CPA exam. As per my major - Actuarial Mathematics, I would have preferred another quarter or 2 beyond the 4 years I took to get my degree - I had a few finance classes, 3 or 4 statistics classes and something like 12 math classes to take for the major. I can't disagree with the others much though, I'm not familiar enough with the requirements of those majors.

2 a) I thrive on knowledge, and I do care about some of the things you don't, but to each his or her own. Your point is well taken though, I did have some completely useless classes in college (Philosophy in my case). As per the foreign languange, they were of value to me - first I've vacationed in both Mexico and Spain and have needed to use the little I remember. In addition, the hispanic population of Portland (and the US) is growing and it is becoming more and more necessary. Again, I do understand your point.

2. b) I can only speak for myself, but high school was a complete waste of time for me. I didn't learn that much, and it certainly didn't prepare me for college. I had a little less than a 4 point in high school with little effort, but struggled my first year in college.

3. I agree this is a way for universities to make money. Remember, it is a business too, to a point. Reducing the crap you have to take that has little value has its merits. However, part of the educational process is to "well round" you. As per your comment about college degrees being a sign of stability, I've talked to recruiters and I've been told that it also shows the ability and desire to learn. Not that those who don't go to college lack these though.

4. I can only speak for my company, a multi-billion dollar corpration, but most of the job postings say "x years of experience with a college degree or X+y years of experience without a degree". Though many jobs don't require any degree and many others require MBA.

In the end, I do agree with you to a point, it can be made more efficient. I think it could be a very difficult thing to do though with hundreds of majors out there. Just my opinion - good post.

I'm glad it takes longer.

I came to school with my plan to study journalism and write for a newspaper. Too bad that once I got some experience I hated it.

Now I'll still be able to finish on time with a degree in something I'm passionate about (although I'll probably be living in a box with my Bachelors in German)

In the perfect world your scenerio would be great. but everybody's situation is different, and I know plenty of people that didn't have the luxury to attend college for 5 years and enjoy their youth. plenty of my friends took jobs out of high school becuase they didn't have parents that would take care of them financily for 4-5 years while they tried to get a degree. For me I had to grow up early. I was living with my dad when I was 15 when he was making $7 an hour. I remember when I got my first job at burger king when I was 17, I saved $3500 in 8 months to use as a down payment for my first car. the assistant principal at my school was in disagreement at me getting a job, since she thought it would impact my grades in a negative way. I had no choice since my dad worked nights and couldn't pick me after work. I remember I worked until 1130-12 am when I was in high school. it sucked, and my grades did suffer, but I had to pay the car payment every month or it would get repossed. that's what people fail to realize. sometimes you have to do what you have to do just to survive. that's what the assistant principal failed to realize. there was nobody taking me to work, or paying my car payment if I didn't pay the bills.

then I went to college. I was for the most part on a 15-16k budget.working at aryby's netted me about 10k, and the rest came from student loan reinbursements. I paid all the bills: rent, cable, phone, internet, food, gas, etc. my dad did give me 100$ every now and then and did offer to pay the repairs for the car. but for the most part I survived those 5 years on a 15k budget. I usually went to school monday-thursday, and worked thursday-sunday. I had to pick my spots when I went out. I did attend osu football games, and was a browns season ticket holder for those 4 years. but there weren't too many trips to the mall, or to the bar for me.

I'm not mad or bitter about my college life. to obtain a college degree from osu on a 15k budget gives me the confidence to go anywhere in the country and feel that I can be successful.I wish my stay in college was a bit shorter, so I could have went into the workforce a little sooner and had less money to pay back in loans. but it sure beats the hell of not having a degree and going from job to job with nothing to fall back on.

and no I don't think people would only know their job if they went for 3 years or less. as I stated before if you attended a great high school, most of their curriculum is college prep. the high school I attended ofered a foreign language, eceonomics, civics, accounting, journalism, broadcasting, speech, etc. this is also the information age, and you could find plenty of material on any subject via the internet. I know when my dad was 18 he went straight to the mill working 40 hrs a week. I know it's a different era and times have changed, but kids today are capable of starting their career at 20 or 21. but a lot of today's youth are pampered by their parents and simply don't want to grow up becuase they simply don't have to. you'd be surprised how one would react when you have to produce like I did at a young age. it's either sink or swim. I chose to swim.
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Maybe it's just me, but someone arguing for less school should make fewer errors. You don't capitalize sentences, your grammar is bad, and you have several spelling errors in your posts. I don't think you have had enough school.