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Browns coach Mike Pettine says report that Johnny Manziel has moved ahead of Brian Hoyer is false and there's no 'clearcut favorite':

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/08/browns_coach_mike_pettine_says.html#incart_2box

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CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns coach Mike Pettine said on a conference call today that a report that Johnny Manziel had moved ahead of Brian Hoyer in the quarterback competition is "untrue.''

He said there's no "clearcut favorite'' and that if there were, it would mean one of them isn't playing well, and that's not the case.

ESPN's Bob Holtzman reported Sunday morning that a team source told him that Manziel had moved ahead of Hoyer.

Pettine said he doesn't know where that came from, because only three people know where things stand and they haven't talked to anyone about it: Pettine, offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains.

He said he hasn't named a starter for the ESPN Monday Night Football Aug. 18 game against the Redskins, despite a report Saturday night by NFL Network that he had decided on Manziel for that game.

He complimented both Hoyer and Manziel for their performances on Saturday night in the 13-12 loss to the Lions, saying they both had reason to be nervous and both settled in quickly and got more comfortable as their outings went along.

He said Hoyer started out camp ahead because of his experience and "he's done nothing to have that taken away from him.'' He acknowledged, however, that Manziel has shown "a lot of improvement.''

He added that in an "ideal situation,'' he'd still prefer that Manziel watch and learn behind a veteran.

He acknowledged that Manziel has a "skillset that we want to take advantage of'' and that him taking off and running is "definitely a work in progress, but he's shown improvement.''

He said he'd still like to name his starter by the third preseason game, "but it's not 1,000 percent etched in stone.''

He said the fact that both quarterbacks had solid debuts "is a good problem to have.''

He also noted that Hoyer and Manziel will continue to split reps with the first team in practice this week.

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Imagine that... people and their "sources"...

I'd be shocked if JFF didn't start against the Redskins. If he doesn't there is zero chance he'd start at Pittsburgh

I would not be surprised if Manziel starts against the redskins. I would also not read anything too deep into that if he does.

What's the harm in giving him some reps with the first stringers?

If we do have a TRUE qb competition - both qb's need to equal opportunity with the first stringers. You can't take Hoyer and our first string O against a first string D, and compare that with Manziel and our second stringers against a second string D. Does not compute.

They each get a start, then the starter for game 3 becomes more of the litmus test as to who starts the regular season.

There's time yet people. The best player will start the regular season. At least, the perceived best, perceived by the coaches. And just because one starts the reg. season doesn't mean he will the entire season, for a variety of reasons.

I'll say this, if I were the coach I'd start Johnny next week. Unless he REALLY plays well, I'd go back to Hoyer and have him be the starter Week 1. I think he's the "safe" play in such a hostile environment

Manziel is as good a thrower and a much better runner than Hoyer. Because of that if he even knows only 70% mentally of what Hoyer knows he should start.

I've wanted Hoyer to start all along, but I think Manziel's physical abilities will be really helpful. His legs make the defense accountable for something that they don't have to be accountable for with Hoyer in there.

At this point not only do I think Manziel should start, I think he gives us the best chance to win. I am disappointed because I really like Hoyer's story and he seems like a high character guy.

I havent seen Johnny throw a long ball as a Brown.
He has an arm , can he be accurate long in the NFL?

Mark it down......Johnny IS starting in Pittsburgh.
He is way more versatile than Hoyer and I am a Hoyer fan.

Yes, you almost have to. Especially if you want to declare your starting qb after the third preseason game like Pettine has said.

Gotta see what he can do with a decent to good o-line in front of him. I'm not saying he should start come Pittsburgh as-of-now, but, I will say that Hoyer didn't do anything to separate himself from me declaring he should start against Pittsburgh. Those high balls are evidence to this reasoning.

It's only fair to JF to get some game action with the #1's, it would be shameful to decline him that in a so-called "fair competition" environment.

The consensus from the scrimmage was that Manziel was better than Hoyer. I thought Manziel was better last night, it would have gone to Hoyer but the 2 overthrows down the middle are plays that usually end up going the other direction.

It was still really tight but all those negatives that didnt appear to frustrate the rookie, imho was the difference. He made plays when the opportunity was there and he made plays where there shouldnt have been any. I still say not throwing to the FB on that one play was the one of the smartest plays either QB made.

The skins will be a tough test, they really good impressive in that first game. I know preseason week 1 but right now its all we have to go on.

I am also looking to see how our D does with this skins OL and RG3 and their run game.

j/c

I do think Manziel's X-Factor is something that might be the difference ... his ability to make plays on his own is tough to coach and tough to prepare for. If he can continue to improve his knowledge of the playbook and his pocket passing, he'll be far better than Hoyer pretty soon

The thing I didn't like was that they had Manziel run the read option. Manziel isn't big enough to be running on a consistent basis and Shanahan killed RGIII by having him run on designed plays.

In order to survive Manziel needs to be using his legs to get him out of trouble on pass plays. If he continues to run the option he is going to get killed.

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On if Johnny Manziel reminds Coach Saban of any former opponents:

“I’ve been around longer than most, and most of our players can’t relate to this, but this guy reminds me of Doug Flutie. I played against him a long time ago, but he was a really good player and a really good competitor and that’s who this guy reminds me of. He can throw it, he’s not great big in stature or anything like that, he’s extremely quick, he’s very instinctive – has a unique ability to extend plays and seems to know when to take-off and run it. He scrambles and makes plays throwing the ball down the field. He doesn’t remind me of [Cam Newton or Tim Tebow] who were bigger, more physical, very athletic guys; this guy really doesn’t run a lot of quarterback runs. He runs quarterback draws, and he runs when it’s a pass and everybody gets all spread-out and [he] scrambles. The other guys were certainly capable of doing that, this is a unique guy in terms of his play-making ability, his size, quickness and speed and ability to make people miss in space.”

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-- Nick Saban

I completely agree on the read option. I absolutely hate it. its one thing for a kid to escape pressure and produce big plays and its another whne you intentionally put him in plays where he has to run. Guys like Suh will not care if its a handoff or a fake handoff they will obliterate the QB when given a chance and I do not want that play in the playbook.

If it's close, and I think it is, I believe you have to go Manziel. His legs and scrambling ability can be the difference on an offense that lacks playmakers. Making the defense account for the QB might be the only chance this offense has of putting any pressure on the defense.

I would trash the read option stuff though. It's just gonna lead to injury. Manziel hardly ever ran the read option in college, it was mostly scrambles with some QB draws mixed in. He is a great scrambler, but he is not a power runner like Cam Newton or Tim Tebow, nor does he have the pure speed of a RG3. He is quick and shifty with excellent vision. Let him drop back, survey the field, and go from there.

LOL No bias in this post at all fair and objective breakdown of why Manziel is nothing special when you didnt even watch the damn game.

one thing that stood out to me in the difference between hoyer and JFF besides JFF is a much more mobile qb, but hoyer isn't even close to JFF arm strength...JFF may be short in stature but he's got a cannon compared to how Hoyers floats those outs and can't get the long ball down . I really want to see JFF with the ones as I think everyone does..I think it will be a better indicator where he is when he's throwing to and being protected by guys that aren't going to be parking cars in september. In the same sense, i'd like to see what hoyer does in the same situation JFF was in Saturday.., leaky line and horrible receivers and see if he can generate something

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JFF may be short in stature but he's got a cannon compared to how Hoyers floats those outs and can't get the long ball down .

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Neither guy has a plus-arm. I'd say they are essentially equal in arm-strength.

There are many veteran QB's who rarely gun the ball at 100%, forgoing maximum velocity for accuracy. Kurt Warner was that guy, while John Elway was the polar opposite.

I'm not a Hoyer honk, but I've watched a ton of Manziel and his arm is adequate for the NFL but it's far from elite...just like Hoyer's. I've seen Hoyer rarely put maximum effort into a throw, while Manziel did most of his night.

One's arm is not substantially stronger than the others to my eye.

might be time to set up an appointment
www.lenscrafters.com/‎

Keep in mind what was said...that Manziel has a cannon compared to Hoyer, and that I don't believe Manziel's arm is essentially larger.

'Johnny Manziel has pulled ahead of Brian Hoyer in the QB race, according to report'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/08/johnny_manziel_has_pulled_ahea.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on August 10, 2014 at 11:42 AM, updated August 10, 2014 at 2:53 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Johnny Manziel has pulled ahead of Brian Hoyer in the quarterback race following his flashy debut in Detroit, according to a report.

Citing a Browns source, ESPN's Bob Holtzman reported that Manziel has overtaken the sixth-year pro in the battle for the starting job after his promising performance in Saturday night's 13-12 loss to the Lions.

A source told cleveland.com that Manziel has the momentum and the superior talent. They've also been pleased with his leadership and progress since the beginning of camp. If he plays well in Washington on Monday Night Football Aug. 18, he'll be very much in the conversation for that week one start in Pittsburgh.

Displaying some of his Johnny Football style, Manziel competed 7-of-11 attempts (64%) for 63 yards in four series of work with the second-team offense. He also led the Browns with 27 yards on six carries, including a 16-yard scramble after which he slid like a Major Leaguer.

Manziel will most likely get the start against the Redskins and Robert Griffin III, but Pettine wasn't ready to go there after the game.

"That decision hasn't been made yet,'' said Pettine.

He also declined to say which quarterback won round one of the sweepstakes, but will address the media on a conference call at 4 p.m. Sunday.

"They both did some good things," Pettine said. "They both did some things that more suited their skill set. I think Brian was high on a couple throws. I think he would want those back. He threw a couple of other nice balls in there. I thought Johnny did some nice things from the pocket. When he got out, he created a little bit as well."

Still, it's evident that Manziel will need to get some work in the with the first team offense before the Browns can declare him their man for the opener in Pittsburgh. Pettine plans to make his decision before the third preseason game Aug. 23.

"I just think I need to continue to do what the coaches are asking me to do and continue to learn and go through these situations in these games and try to handle them the best that I can while they're coming at me,'' Manziel said. "I'm sure through these next few weeks there will be adversity that I'll have to overcome.

"At the same time, that's part of this game and I need to continue to try to handle the situations the best I know how and try to put this team and my group – whichever, the ones, the twos, the threes, the fours, whatever it is – try and move the ball down the field and help our team win a game.''

Imagine if Manziel had Pro Bowlers Joe Thomas and Alex Mack blocking for him, and Pro Bowlers Jordan Cameron and Josh Gordon catching passes for him, which is conceivable in Washington if Gordon hasn't been suspended yet.

"I feel like we're getting looks with every guy on the team,'' said Manziel, who's already mastered the art of diplomacy. "Guys are doing a really good job and continuing to get more and more comfortable.''

Manziel mustered only one field goal in his four possessions, but watched his best drive fizzle on a Dion Lewis fumble at the Detroit 31 and his final march marred by offensive penalties and a dropped pass by undrafted rookie Willie Snead.

"The list of things I need to improve on could go on for days, but for me, it was a good start," Manziel said. "You have to start somewhere and you have to set a foundation, and it was good to get my feet wet. I got my first preseason game under my belt and we've got three more heading into the season.''

Operating primarily out of the pistol and read-option, he converted a fourth-and-1 on a keeper and completed a few passes on the move. But arguably his best throw of the night came from under center, when he fired a 14-yard strike to rookie Taylor Gabriel over the middle after a fake.

"I felt comfortable in the pocket,'' Manziel said. "I felt like the offensive line did a great job of holding up for me to be able to deliver that ball when we were supposed to get rid of it. I felt like the ball came out well tonight. I'm still working on getting balls out on time better and really timing things up.''

Manziel, who entered the game midway through the second quarter to a chorus of boos and some cheers, took a few hard shots from defenders eager to get a lick on the Boy Wonder. But he trotted back out onto the field for two more drives after being checked out by the medical team after one hard hit just before the field goal, and scrambled for 16 yards just after absorbing another blow. Overall, Manziel was knocked down at least three times after the throw.

"It's a football game,'' he said. "It's physical. It's part of the game, but I feel really good. I feel great.''

Pettine agreed that the sideline exam was favorable.

"It's nothing serious,'' he said.

Question is, can the under six-foot, 210-pound Manziel run that much every game and stay healthy?

"I want to move the ball down the field,'' he said. "I did as good a job as I could getting down when I needed to get down and there was a fourth down where I was happy to get the first down, happy to move the chains there. When I did get a chance to take off and run around a little bit, I got down to the chains and tried to keep the drive going. That's what it's all about.''

Manziel was stopped for no gain on his first run -- a third-and-1 -- to go three-and-out on his opening drive. But he gained 11 yards on his next two scrambles, including an 8-yarder on which he followed the block of fullback Ray Agnew. On the fourth-and-1 conversion, Manziel had Agnew wide open, but ran instead and barely made the yard around right end.

"I felt like I need to continue to exhaust my progressions a little bit more,'' he said. "There was a time I stepped up in the pocket and the seas kind of parted and the line kind of gave me a good hole to push up and take off. I needed to make a quick decision, either hang in there a second longer and make the throw or take off and luckily I got past the first wave of defensive linemen and got (16) whatever yard gain it was.''

Another time, Manziel felt the heat and took off prematurely, but will undoubtedly be more patient in the pocket with a better supporting cast. Gordon and Miles Austin worked only with the first team and Cameron had the night off because of a shoulder injury.

"Obviously that's not the plan for me to get that many carries every week,'' he said. "At the same time, the more and more I get better at progressions, the more and more I get comfortable with the play calls and the scheme and what we're trying to do and pre-snap looks, the more and more I continue to get better over time and hopefully that will weed out. The times I did take off I felt I got out of bounds, slid and tried to protect myself the best way I could.''

Manziel said all of the right things about winning the starting job, which should play well in the locker room, especially amongst the veterans.

"For me, it's all about getting better,'' he said. "If I'm the guy that puts this team in the best position to win, then we'll see what happens. But if it's not, then I'm here. At the end of the day, what I want is what's best for the Cleveland Browns. Whichever quarterback that is, whichever way I can help this team, that's what I'm all about. I'm not about having to come in, having to do this. I just need to continue to get better as a player, continue to learn, soak everything in from the film and this experience I had tonight and things will play themselves out the way they're supposed to.''

Manziel received a nice endorsement from Thomas, who's seen plenty of young quarterbacks come and go.

"He seemed to handle it really well and you didn't see any silly rookie mistakes that you'd expect out of a first-year quarterback,'' Thomas said.

Manziel wasn't ready to say that his debut gave him the confidence to face the Steelers less than a month from now, but seemed to realize that the speed and magnitude of the game weren't too much for him.

"Luckily for me there's three more games for me to get out there and learn and continue to go through different situations vs. different defenses,'' said Manziel. "I'm still going week to week and just growing up as a quarterback. I guess you guys can say (the Steelers game) is close, but at the same time there are a lot of things that will unfold from now until then that will paint a better picture for us.''

Overall, Manziel felt he operated the offense efficiently for his first time out.

"I tried to be as decisive as I could,'' he said. "There were some things that I obviously missed, which comes with the territory of being precise on these reads and our progressions. When I knew where I wanted to go and got the right look, the ball came out nice and on time and I really tried to put these guys in the best position possible to get a catch and turn upfield and get as many yards after the catch as we can.''

Hoyer managed two field goals in his three series of work, but the second came against the Lions' second-team defense. He completed 6-of-14 attempts for 92 yards, with a long completion of 28 yards to Marquis Gray. En route to a 65.2 rating, he twice overthrew open receivers inside the Lions' 20, and once put a ball in the turf short of the receiver. But he was also plagued by at least two dropped passes, including one by Austin at the Lions' 5 and one by Gray at the Lions' 9.

Hoyer's stats would look a lot better if the receivers had hung on, but it was a good first outing coming off the back from his torn anterior cruciate ligament.

"There's definitely a few throws I would've liked to have back and put in a better spot,'' he said. But I also feel like nine months off of an ACL surgery to be able to play and play pretty decent, it's a step forward. You've got to just keep building and keep along that path."

Hoyer will have one more game in which to stave off the No. 22 overall pick, who's come alive over the past eight days.



(end)

I know it was just one game, but I liked Manziel better than Hoyer in that game. Will be interesting to see how the rest of preseason pans out, watching both of them.

ESPN has got to be loving this. They have been covering Manziel like crazy and now he is likely going to start on MNF to determine whether he is the starter going into the regular season. It might be the highest rated preseason MNF game of all time.

From the locked thread, I really couldn't disagree with your assessment. She's always got her bedroom eyes on for the likes of Brandon Weeden, Jason Campbell and now Johnny Manziel.

@ YTown:

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Oh brother ..... if she quotes one of her sources .. people bitch. If she quotes another writer, (as all beat writers wind up having to do from time to time) then people bitch.

My suggestion for those who don't like her writing would be ...... don't read her articles.

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Don't worry. I don't read her crap anymore.

As for her, and others, taking things from others, it's fine. When it's cobbled together from nothing but, it's Frankensteinesque.

Well said, archie.

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He added that in an "ideal situation,'' he'd still prefer that Manziel watch and learn behind a veteran.

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I hope that we still have a "true QB competition" and just won't hand the job to Hoyer. And if this is a true QB competition, JM should get the start against Washington.

In regards to the read/option. The Seahawks use it w/Wilson and he isn't very big. I hope we don't use it a lot, but if Manziel wins the starting job, I wouldn't mind if we ran it 2-3 times a game. It puts the defense in some awkward positions and JM has proven he throws well on the move and we know he can get to the sidelines in a hurry.

I agree. Anything you can make the defense think about helps. They're already going to game plan for him. Why not fill their plate with as much as possible. I don't think we have to run the option that much to get in the defenses heads.

And if you listen to the presser by Pettine after the game on Saturday, he doesn't know how that rumor started. He said that the only guys who know what's what is he, Shanahan and the QB coach.

So that means for it to be a reliable report, it had to be Pettine, Shanahan or the QB coach that leaked the information. What do you think the odds of that are?

I think the source is a drunk on the sidewalk outside a building on Superior Ave LOL

j/c...

Good News they both played well. I thought Hoyer was just a little rusty, But he started to get pin point accurate as the game went on. I thought JM was not as accurate even when completing his passes. I couple of notes on JM.

He made a play out of nothing - had his FB Agnew wide open - he opted to pull the ball down and run himself. Terrible decision. I'm pretty sure it was short yardage in the pistol and he opted to take the ball out of the belly who had the inside open enough for decent gain. Yeah the DE went inside (w/a blocker on him so it wasn't unblocked inside) he would not have gotten the RB. JM kept it and had to meet with 2 Lion defenders. Look I love this kid and his future Franchise QB ahead of us. But he has to learn and not rush into this cause a fan base love the exciting runs and of course the media. We got a D that is killing it? Hoyer should be the QB he can score points take advantage of mistakes and don't make many on his part!.

Also JM had NFL open WRs and didn't pull the trigger. He still has to "LEARN" the NFL window. But this is all good cause both can start in the NFL! Our past competitions was who was worse and we would start the OTHER!

Other notes, Amonty Bryant - freaking beast. Bitonio very good for his first start. I liked the rookie LB Kerstie?, Gipson was missed. Gordon is friggen good Missed Cameron. Loved Gray's game, what is it with Kent QBs - he is like Cribbs in another position mode. 2nd OL sucked like most do. JM doesn't get the start...then the competition is basically over. Hail Hoyer.

JM showed why he will be special. He also showed why the coaches really wishes that he sit for a while at least - too bad Pettine might get pressured to give the nod to JM. If Kosar, Eli, others can sit a while prior to their starts...I think they were more ready than JM.

jmho

If I were Hoyer, I'd be frustrated how this media frenzy has taken over the Bowns camp. It makes me like him even more how professional he's been in the face of it.

I want the Browns to win and the best QB to get that done gets my vote. But I think there are a lot of players out there who would see this Manziel thing as a runaway train that you just can't stop. That's ton of pressure and would be enough to completely derail a lot of guys. Hoyer keeps coming. That's a pro.

I thought they played about even. Hoyer seems to have the team more crisp, Manziel brings an excitement even if he stays in the pocket. You just don't know. But I'd give the night to Hoyer.

The media and a lot of fans are different. I don'y know how you can watch that game objectively and say that Manziel outplayed Hoyer. But it's all over the place that he did.

Hoyer has to be 5 times better than Manziel for people to think he's just as good.